Date   

Re: Atlas ICC 105 tank

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

joe binish wrote:
Do you think we could strong-arm Mr Black Cat into making a "definitive" set? Allen mentioned to me at Naperville that he is looking for some sets to work up in his "spare" time. A set of instructions on what to fix on the Atlas car would be a nice addendum.
Excellent suggestion, Joe. We could also use the white Warren lettering for the black cars. I'd love to have accurate versions of both schemes.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Atlas ICC 105 tank

joe binish <joebinish@...>
 

Do you think we could strong-arm Mr Black Cat into making a "definitive" set? Allen mentioned to me at Naperville that he is looking for some sets to work up in his "spare" time. A set of instructions on what to fix on the Atlas car would be a nice addendum.
My 2 cents....
Joe Binish

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Hendrickson" <rhendrickson@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 12:18 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Atlas ICC 105 tank


On Nov 16, 2007, at 9:02 AM, joe binish wrote:

I have a decorated Atlas car that I flat coated and weathered. Still
not
enough. One day(in the future) I will strip, repaint and decal. The
car
looks really good if you scrape off the grabs around the dome and
replace
with wire grabs.
I've considered the same rememdy, but currently there are no accurate
decals for the Warren cars; the old Champ set is seriously lame.
Another problem with all of the Atlas ICC-105s is that there are
riveted strips under the running boards on each side, somewhat offset
from center, which weren't on the prototype cars and have to be
removed., I was puzzled for awhile about why these were there and then
I realized that the die maker (presumably Chinese) misinterpreted the
prototype photos and thought the riveted flanges of the center anchor
were underneath the running boards. Of course, the model therefore has
no center anchor, so that needs to be added as well. Most other
manufacturers would have caught this obvious error, but Atlas is
notorious for mistakes of this kind (e.g., the bolster blunder on the
Roger-Hart Convertible ballast hopper models).

Richard Hendrickson






Yahoo! Groups Links




Re: Atlas ICC 105 tank

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Nov 16, 2007, at 9:02 AM, joe binish wrote:

I have a decorated Atlas car that I flat coated and weathered. Still
not
enough. One day(in the future) I will strip, repaint and decal. The
car
looks really good if you scrape off the grabs around the dome and
replace
with wire grabs.
I've considered the same rememdy, but currently there are no accurate
decals for the Warren cars; the old Champ set is seriously lame.
Another problem with all of the Atlas ICC-105s is that there are
riveted strips under the running boards on each side, somewhat offset
from center, which weren't on the prototype cars and have to be
removed., I was puzzled for awhile about why these were there and then
I realized that the die maker (presumably Chinese) misinterpreted the
prototype photos and thought the riveted flanges of the center anchor
were underneath the running boards. Of course, the model therefore has
no center anchor, so that needs to be added as well. Most other
manufacturers would have caught this obvious error, but Atlas is
notorious for mistakes of this kind (e.g., the bolster blunder on the
Roger-Hart Convertible ballast hopper models).

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Atlas ICC 105 tank

Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

Hi Richard,

Atlas appears to have corrected the color of its Warren car. I saw one new
in its box in a hobby shop last weekend that was light gray instead of
aluminum.

So long,

Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@...
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142


Re: Atlas ICC 105 tank

joe binish <joebinish@...>
 

I have a decorated Atlas car that I flat coated and weathered. Still not enough. One day(in the future) I will strip, repaint and decal. The car looks really good if you scrape off the grabs around the dome and replace with wire grabs.

Joe Binish

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Hendrickson" <rhendrickson@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 10:41 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Atlas ICC 105 tank


On Nov 16, 2007, at 3:57 AM, Garth Groff wrote:

Besides California Despatch, what other roadnames of the Atlas ICC 105
tank might have been seen in California in natural gas service?
Union Tank Line and Shippers Car Line leased cars were common in
Calif.; both had sizable fleets of ICC 105s. Warren cars were also
common, but unfortunately the Atlas model is painted the wrong color,
and that's not easy to fix. The Warren cars were light gray (NOT
aluminum) with black underframes and bottom sheets and green valve
casings.

Richard Hendrickson






Yahoo! Groups Links




Re: Atlas ICC 105 tank

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Nov 16, 2007, at 3:57 AM, Garth Groff wrote:

Besides California Despatch, what other roadnames of the Atlas ICC 105
tank might have been seen in California in natural gas service?
Union Tank Line and Shippers Car Line leased cars were common in
Calif.; both had sizable fleets of ICC 105s. Warren cars were also
common, but unfortunately the Atlas model is painted the wrong color,
and that's not easy to fix. The Warren cars were light gray (NOT
aluminum) with black underframes and bottom sheets and green valve
casings.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: True Line Trains HO Scale Canadian Prewar AAR Boxcars

pierreoliver2003 <pierre.oliver@...>
 

Al,

The problem from where I sit is that it isn't painted but cast in
somewhat the correct colour. Giving the whole car a toy like
appearance.
It makes me fear for the upcoming cabooses.
Pierre Oliver


And what's wrong with the paint?

Another 12 CN numbers have been commissioned with 1 & 2 corrected.
TLT will also have the CN caboose out in a short while and the CV
and DWP lettering are bogus for that car, they wanted to make some
money I guess.

Allen Ferguson


Re: True Line Trains HO Scale Canadian Prewar AAR Boxcars

ajfergusonca <ajferguson@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...> wrote:

Roger that, Larry, but that doesn't excuse the paint and lettering
screwups on these models.
Ben:
I must take some responsibility for the lettering mixup on the 40'
TLT boxcars. I had just finished the steel frame SS 40' car decal
set. It was hurry-up offence with 2 weeks to send 12 copies of
lettering. Different leaves, different dates, 2 different cars -
NSC1 & flat roof and NSC2 & raised pnl roof. I did the simplest
thing and took the decal artwork and pasted it on a boxcar drawing.
I made a couple of mistakes with the lettering:
1. The CN on the door is only on the SS box cars. It must be removed.
2. The space between the reporting marks and the capy block was 6 "
too small. Some railroads have the smaller space (CPR). The factory
sometimes put the lettering with the capy block located correctly
and sometimes the reporting marks were correctly seemingly at random.
Both of the above mistakes were missed by Stafford Swaine and
TLT "experts".
3. Someone between myself and the end product added a 10'6" car
number to the mix.
I never demanded to see the test shots or paints. The first
completed car I saw was a my LHS as it was going out the door.

And what's wrong with the paint?

Another 12 CN numbers have been commissioned with 1 & 2 corrected.
TLT will also have the CN caboose out in a short while and the CV
and DWP lettering are bogus for that car, they wanted to make some
money I guess.

Allen Ferguson


Re: Atlas ICC 105 tank

Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Friends,

Besides California Despatch, what other roadnames of the Atlas ICC 105 tank might have been seen in California in natural gas service?

Thanks much.


Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Ed Hawkins wrote:

On Nov 14, 2007, at 10:48 AM, John Hile wrote:


I have been able to confirm the 1951 built date from Richard
Hendrickson's article in the July 2003 Railmodel Journal. In that
article, there is a photo (Bob's/Col. Chet McCoid) of ANPX 120 and
Richard's caption gives the built date. The photo was taken Sept.
1957, and the scheme matches that on the Atlas model.

My January 1953 ORER, however, does not list an ANPX number series
that would include these cars. There are several listings for ICC
105A300W tanks, but they are in the 2010 to 3570 range and vary in
capy from 10,500 gal to 11,014 gal.

So, my questions are:
1) When new in 1951, did these cars carry the same paint scheme?
2) When new, what number did this car (or cars in this lot) carry?
John,
The photo of ANPX 120 has a build date of 5-51. It was built by AC&F and it generally matches the Atlas model (as close as the model allows). I can say with certainty that AC&F didn't build the car for Anchor Petroleum.

AC&F lot 3553 was 200 cars for Sunray Oil Co. (SUYX 101-300). I have never been able to locate the AC&F builder's photo for this series of cars. The AC&F bill of materials for this lot number provides information only on the underframe and trucks. Your 1/53 ORER likely lists the SUYX 101-300 series cars. Sometime between 1/53 and the 4/55, the cars became ANPX 101-300. I don't have immediate access to any ORERs in between, so perhaps others can help pinpoint when the change was made. Hope this helps answer your question.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins







Yahoo! Groups Links




Re: True Line Trains HO Scale Canadian Prewar AAR Boxcars

NHJJ4@...
 

Well,
I was kinda hoping to get a car or two for my use. But listening to the
complaints about the Paint, detail,
Cant do it ?? cant get it right ?
Reminds me that TLT even Blew it on there 5 AX C-Liner. Wrong Paint Wrong
detail (for US Roads)
Wrong lettering.
They say there "Experts" Got it right ?? But "Our" Experts were promised
"Test shots" to check out the model, paint, Detail, And Nothing. Not a word
from TLT. Till it came out.???
Why be in a Rush to bring out a product that isn't close then Blame
everybody else for there mistakes.
Doesn't the box say "Quality Beyond Compare"??
The Body , Trucks, Frame "except where the 6 wheel truck is" ALL match the
P1K ??
If they are about Quality, Why not make the correct truck sideframe for the
rear?? Why use a PA-DL109 sideframe ??
Guess I will do another kit instead. TLT hasn't shone me anything.
Jim




************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


Re: True Line Trains HO Scale Canadian Prewar AAR Boxcars

WaltGCox@...
 

In a message dated 11/15/2007 5:53:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
b.hom@... writes:





Roger that, Larry, but that doesn't excuse the paint and lettering
screwups on these models.







At least we don't need many cars with the combination of NSC-1 ends and
Murphy flat panel ends. This combination was only used on 700 cars out of a total
of 19,215 1937 pattern AAR 10' hgt. boxcars. Hopefully this will be a
learning experience as TLC does seem to be trying to get things right. I was not
aware of a problem with the paint and the screwup with the lettering was due to
a proofreaders oversight and the fact that the lettering was copied directly
from an accurate decal sheet which the factory did not realize had to be cut
up in order to be properly spaced. The same sort of problems that affected
the quality of early Korean brass.
Let's hope that they can get it right the next time around since many more
cars of the other combinations are needed.
Walt Cox
(Longtime CN modeler)




************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


Re: Atlas ICC 105 tank ANPX 122

John Hile <john66h@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...> wrote:


On Nov 15, 2007, at 1:54 PM, John Hile wrote:

I found one other photo of an Anchor LPG car in an NMRA book of
clinic
presentations from the 1990 Pittsburgh Convention. Richard gave a
presentation on tank cars, and on p.102 is a photo of ANPX 2660 (Geo.
Sisk/C. Winters) with a built date noted as 1946, but no photo date.
John,
This is being answered separately since I had to do more digging to
figure this one out. ANPX 2660 was built by AC&F in 4-5-48 (not 4-46).
The stencils are difficult to tell apart a "6" and "8."

The car had originally been delivered to Dade Gas Company. The original
reporting marks and car number areas show a rectangular area where the
original DGX reporting marks and car numbers were painted out.

The ANPX 2660 was likely the original DGX 100, one of two cars numbered
100 and 110, built by AC&F as lot number 3195. The builder's photo of
DGX 110 was built 5-48 and carried the same paint scheme as the ANPX
2660. The dome and top of the casing and heads were painted aluminum.
The very bottom of the jacket was black (hard to see in the photo and
lower than on the ANPX 120 photo). Also black underframe and trucks.
Black stencils over aluminum and white stencils over black.

The George Sisk photo has stencils on the side sill "RPKD 8 10 49" on
the top line and HTG - SAL on the second line. The HTG could possibly
be MTG, can't tell for sure. Hope this helps.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


This is great, thanks Ed. As I understand, your info gives me two
ways to go with this car:

1) Renumber to 2710-2750 series and add platform that surrounds dome,
change blt date, other lettering OK, perhaps change trucks
2) Renumber to 2660 and repaint upper portion of lower shell and decal
that area with parts of Champ HT-160, change blt date, trucks per
photo, move brake reservoir to other side of car.

Of course both of above may be a compromise on the running board.

John Hile
Blacksburg, VA


Re: Atlas ICC 105 tank ANPX 122

Ed Hawkins
 

On Nov 15, 2007, at 1:54 PM, John Hile wrote:

I found one other photo of an Anchor LPG car in an NMRA book of clinic
presentations from the 1990 Pittsburgh Convention. Richard gave a
presentation on tank cars, and on p.102 is a photo of ANPX 2660 (Geo.
Sisk/C. Winters) with a built date noted as 1946, but no photo date.
John,
This is being answered separately since I had to do more digging to
figure this one out. ANPX 2660 was built by AC&F in 4-5-48 (not 4-46).
The stencils are difficult to tell apart a "6" and "8."

The car had originally been delivered to Dade Gas Company. The original
reporting marks and car number areas show a rectangular area where the
original DGX reporting marks and car numbers were painted out.

The ANPX 2660 was likely the original DGX 100, one of two cars numbered
100 and 110, built by AC&F as lot number 3195. The builder's photo of
DGX 110 was built 5-48 and carried the same paint scheme as the ANPX
2660. The dome and top of the casing and heads were painted aluminum.
The very bottom of the jacket was black (hard to see in the photo and
lower than on the ANPX 120 photo). Also black underframe and trucks.
Black stencils over aluminum and white stencils over black.

The George Sisk photo has stencils on the side sill "RPKD 8 10 49" on
the top line and HTG - SAL on the second line. The HTG could possibly
be MTG, can't tell for sure. Hope this helps.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: True Line Trains HO Scale Canadian Prewar AAR Boxcars

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Larry Grubb wrote:
"While I completely share your frustration, it is not true that a
company can "easily" produce prototypically accurate scale models at
the level that would please most people on this list, even when the
company has done it's homework. Translating photos and drawings of the
prototype into injection molds is not easily done. (Add in cost
constraints, and it just gets harder.) Because a company has the
ability to make an injection molded part, that does not mean they have
the ability to make excellent injection molded parts. Yugo can make a
car, but it is not the case that they could "easily" make Ferraris if
they would "just do their homework"."

Roger that, Larry, but that doesn't excuse the paint and lettering
screwups on these models.


Ben Hom


Re: Atlas ICC 105 tank ANPX 122

Ed Hawkins
 

On Nov 15, 2007, at 1:54 PM, John Hile wrote:

The 11,000 gal ICC105A300W's listed for ANPX in the 1/53 ORER are:
2480, 2490-2570, 2580-2590, 2630-2840, 2940-3060. Note that all cars
are numbered in multiples of ten.

I would appreciate any information you may have that would help me to
model one of these ANPX cars using the Atlas car I have.
John,
From the AC&F bill of materials, the following information pertains to
one of the number series above.

ANPX 2710-2750, 5 cars, built 11-49, ACF lot 3352. Aluminum-top of
casing. Black-rest of car and lettering over aluminum. White lettering
over black. These cars had dome platforms of the type that surrounded
the dome. These cars more or less match the Atlas model.

Other ANPX cars in your list either came from GATC or were renumbered
from different original sources.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: True Line Trains HO Scale Canadian Prewar AAR Boxcars

Larry Grubb <larry450sl@...>
 

Ben,
While I completely share your frustration, it is not true that a company can "easily" produce prototypically accurate scale models at the level that would please most people on this list, even when the company has done it's homework. Translating photos and drawings of the prototype into injection molds is not easily done. (Add in cost constraints, and it just gets harder.) Because a company has the ability to make an injection molded part, that does not mean they have the ability to make excellent injection molded parts. Yugo can make a car, but it is not the case that they could "easily" make Ferraris if they would "just do their homework".
Larry Grubb,
Who has produced both Yugos and Ferraris, of sorts.

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...> wrote:
Clark Propst wrote:
"I visited by a very pleasant True Line rep at their display at
Trainfest. Aren't Canadians pleasant people, especially now that their
money is worth more than ours. Anyway, he said the response to their
products has been overwhelming and they can't make the stuff fast
enough, so don't expect any changes because of feedback from this
group."

I really didn't expect them to make any changes; however, it's
extremely frustrating to see something done poorly that could have
easily been executed correctly if someone had done their homework.
It's especially frustrating to see hobbyists reward mediocrity, but
that's the story of railroad modeling.

Ben Hom






---------------------------------
Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage.


Re: True Line Trains HO Scale Canadian Prewar AAR Boxcars

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

it's
extremely frustrating to see something done poorly that could have
easily been executed correctly if someone had done their homework.
It's especially frustrating to see hobbyists reward mediocrity, but
that's the story of railroad modeling.


Ben Hom
Can't argue with that Ben. Coming to CCB?
Clark Propst


Re: Atlas ICC 105 tank ANPX 122

John Hile <john66h@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...> wrote:


On Nov 14, 2007, at 10:48 AM, John Hile wrote:

I have been able to confirm the 1951 built date from Richard
Hendrickson's article in the July 2003 Railmodel Journal. In that
article, there is a photo (Bob's/Col. Chet McCoid) of ANPX 120 and
Richard's caption gives the built date. The photo was taken Sept.
1957, and the scheme matches that on the Atlas model.

My January 1953 ORER, however, does not list an ANPX number series
that would include these cars. There are several listings for ICC
105A300W tanks, but they are in the 2010 to 3570 range and vary in
capy from 10,500 gal to 11,014 gal.

So, my questions are:
1) When new in 1951, did these cars carry the same paint scheme?
2) When new, what number did this car (or cars in this lot) carry?
John,
The photo of ANPX 120 has a build date of 5-51. It was built by AC&F
and it generally matches the Atlas model (as close as the model
allows). I can say with certainty that AC&F didn't build the car for
Anchor Petroleum.

AC&F lot 3553 was 200 cars for Sunray Oil Co. (SUYX 101-300). I have
never been able to locate the AC&F builder's photo for this series of
cars. The AC&F bill of materials for this lot number provides
information only on the underframe and trucks. Your 1/53 ORER likely
lists the SUYX 101-300 series cars. Sometime between 1/53 and the 4/55,
the cars became ANPX 101-300. I don't have immediate access to any
ORERs in between, so perhaps others can help pinpoint when the change
was made. Hope this helps answer your question.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins





Thanks Ed. My 1/53 ORER does show SUYX 101-301 as ICC105A300W at
11,000 gal capy. FWIW, Ian Cranstone's web site (www.nakina.net)
lists dates for SUYX reporting marks as 1/1952 to 7/1954, eliminated
1/1955.

Richard's July 2003 article in RMJ has an in-service shot of SUYX 292
from Bob's/Col. Chet McCoid. The photo date is given as 2/54.
Richard describes the paint scheme as: black underframe and bottom
shell with white lettering, while the top shell and ends were light
gray with red lettering.

I found one other photo of an Anchor LPG car in an NMRA book of clinic
presentations from the 1990 Pittsburgh Convention. Richard gave a
presentation on tank cars, and on p.102 is a photo of ANPX 2660 (Geo.
Sisk/C. Winters) with a built date noted as 1946, but no photo date.
This car appears similarly lettered to the ANPX 120, however, the
silver extends further down the side of the tank so that the "Anchor
Petroleum Co. Tulsa Okla." letters are black instead of white. The
photo reproduction is a little grainy, but there appears to be some
black along the bottom of the tank. ANPX 2660 has the smaller dome
platform, and what look like Barber S2 trucks to me...as opposed to
the A-3's on ANPX 120 and SUYX 292.

The 11,000 gal ICC105A300W's listed for ANPX in the 1/53 ORER are:
2480, 2490-2570, 2580-2590, 2630-2840, 2940-3060. Note that all cars
are numbered in multiples of ten.

I would appreciate any information you may have that would help me to
model one of these ANPX cars using the Atlas car I have.

Thanks in advance,

John Hile
Blacksburg, VA


Re: True Line Trains HO Scale Canadian Prewar AAR Boxcars

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Clark Propst wrote:
"I visited by a very pleasant True Line rep at their display at
Trainfest. Aren't Canadians pleasant people, especially now that their
money is worth more than ours. Anyway, he said the response to their
products has been overwhelming and they can't make the stuff fast
enough, so don't expect any changes because of feedback from this
group."

I really didn't expect them to make any changes; however, it's
extremely frustrating to see something done poorly that could have
easily been executed correctly if someone had done their homework.
It's especially frustrating to see hobbyists reward mediocrity, but
that's the story of railroad modeling.


Ben Hom


Re: True Line Trains HO Scale Canadian Prewar AAR Boxcars

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

I visited by a very pleasant True Line rep at their display at
Trainfest. Aren't Canadians pleasant people, especially now that their
money is worth more than ours. Anyway, he said the response to their
products has been overwhelming and they can't make the stuff fast
enough, so don't expect any changes because of feedback from this group.
Clark (I have my RC/Sylvan model) Propst

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