Date   

Re: Boxcar details and paint, series GN 20500-21449

gn3397 <heninger@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Mark Heiden" <mark_heiden@...> wrote:

Hello everyone,

I'm looking for some construction and paint information regarding
some Great Northern 40ft steel boxcars, series GN 20500-21449. A
prototype photo of GN 20971 is available at:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/gn/gn20971bkg.jpg

My questions are:

1. What sort of running boards were these cars built with?
Well, the car diagram I have for these cars (dated 1968) lists the running boards as
"metal", which is less than adequate for your purposes. Close comparison of the photo of
20971 as well as the photos of 20918 and 20615 reproduced on page 42 of the GN Equip.
Pictorial Vol. 1 by Thompson seems to indicate the series was equipped with Apex Tri-Lok
running boards. Perhaps other manufacturer's products were used as well, but I can't be
sure.

2. What sort of brake wheels were these cars equipped with?
Universal, with what appears to be the model M1602A hand wheel, which is shown
to good advantage in photos in RP CYC, Vol. 10, page 48.

3. Did the entire series have Superior doors?
Yes, that is specified for the entire series on the car diagram. The door on 20971
appears to have been repaired and repainted, but it does match the five panel Superior
doors on 20918 and 20615.

4. Were ASF A-3 Ride Control trucks used on the entire series?
Yes.

5. When were these cars built? I have seen both 1951 and 1952 listed.
The car diagram states 1952, the photo of 20918 shows "BLT. 9-1952" stenciled on
its side.

6. Having been built in the early 1950s, I am guessing that GN 20971
is still in it's original paint. Is there a good decal set for this
scheme? Right now, Champ BRH-31 looks good.
Yes, the car is in the as built paint scheme. Champ's BRH-31 set will accurately
letter the cars.

Hope this helps, and if anyone else has more definitive information on the running boards,
I would like to hear it as well. Thanks.

Sincerely,
Robert D. Heninger
Stanley, ND


Re: Boxcar details and paint, series GN 20500-21449

Steve Haas
 

Mark,

Here's some info that may help you out:

3) All in this series had the 5 panel Superior Door.
5) Build date for series 20500 - 21499 is 1952.
6) Yup - that's original paint. Consider also Microscale 87-185.

For references:

Mainline Modeler - 9/85, 11/2001, 12/2001
RMJ - 10/1998

IIRC, the Mainline articles are your better bet - the RMJ article was mostly
about a Duane Buck customization of an Intermountain 10' 12 panel car, but
might have had photos of the 10' 6" car.

Best starting point - C&BT 10'6" 12-panel car* with 4/3/1 ends. Throw away
the details and replace with appropriate details from Plano, Branchline,
etc.

* At some point in the past there was discussion of Branchline bringing out
a 10' 6" 12-panel car. I'm not aware of this happening, but if it did, it
might well be a better choice.


Ping me if you need more.

Best regards,

Steve Haas
Sammamish, WA


Sunshine tractors

jerryglow2
 

Were there instructions with this kit? If so I lost mine packing to
move and just took it out and am at a loss to complete it (them). If
anyone has instructions, could you do a good scan and email it? Contact
me off list.

Jerry Glow


Re: Santa Fe car spotters

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Richard Townsend notes:

"The more important question is what is that right behind the tender?? If it's on its way to California, will it be routed home over Sherman Hill?<VBG>"

A rather famous...er...infamous photo. Me thinks it might be more likely that...given the tendency to doubt the very existance of the car behind the tender...it just might be that the locomotive might itself be lost and the scene is, in reality, somewhere in the vicinity of...weell...Roanoke, VA.

Mike Brock...ducking from incoming...


Boxcar details and paint, series GN 20500-21449

Mark Heiden
 

Hello everyone,

I'm looking for some construction and paint information regarding
some Great Northern 40ft steel boxcars, series GN 20500-21449. A
prototype photo of GN 20971 is available at:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/gn/gn20971bkg.jpg

My questions are:

1. What sort of running boards were these cars built with?

2. What sort of brake wheels were these cars equipped with?

3. Did the entire series have Superior doors?

4. Were ASF A-3 Ride Control trucks used on the entire series?

5. When were these cars built? I have seen both 1951 and 1952 listed.

6. Having been built in the early 1950s, I am guessing that GN 20971
is still in it's original paint. Is there a good decal set for this
scheme? Right now, Champ BRH-31 looks good.

As always, any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Mark Heiden


Re: Fe vs. Bx was:Santa Fe car spotters

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 16, 2007, at 3:18 PM, Kurt Laughlin wrote:

What was the distinction the ATSF made between Box and Furniture cars
- double doors?
Yes. Well, literally, larger cars with larger door openings, though in
the period most of us are interested in that meant 1-1/2 or double door
cars with auxiliary doors. The Fe- classification was abandoned in the
early 1970s because by that time most new box cars had plug doors with
wide door openings. The last Fe- class cars, the Fe-42s, were built in
1969.

Richard Hendrickson


Fe vs. Bx was:Santa Fe car spotters

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

What was the distinction the ATSF made between Box and Furniture cars - double doors?

KL


New S scale group formed

Jim King
 

A gathering of approximately 18 S scale modelers met for the first time
yesterday at ETSU in Johnson City, TN. Our common interest is S scale
modeling (not hi-rail), including Sn2, Sn3 and Sn42, though there was no
attendee modeling the latter (that I know of). Among the group were three
manufacturers from this region. All of us are from western NC and eastern
TN.



Following lunch-on-your-own and 4 clinics/speakers, including very
informative history lessons about the city's 3 RR's, how to make simple
conifer trees and a quick 'n simple application for el-cheapo white LEDs
from Walmart, we toured the under-restoration ex-Clinchfield freight station
and former ET&WNC "Union Station", still active as the "Free Service tire
center" since 1954. We then gathered back at ETSU for a wrap up, Q&A
session, then adjourned with the promise to continue similar gatherings.



We welcome anyone modeling in S scale, regardless of gauge, living within an
approximate 2-hour driving radius from Johnson City or Knoxville who's
interested in exchanging modeling ideas and/or attending layout operating
sessions, to contact me off-list for info about the group. If you live
farther than the "2-hour circle" we'll certainly not exclude you but
traveling to/from a day-long meeting may be challenging. We encourage folks
from Chattanooga, northeast Georgia, middle Tennessee, southwest Virginia
and southern Kentucky to attend. However, the goal is to remain essentially
centered within the Asheville/Johnson City/Knoxville triangle as that's
where the core group seems to reside.



The group's name is Blue Ridge "S"calers.



Next meeting location (about 6 months from now) will be in the Knoxville/Oak
Ridge, TN area.



We do not plan to have officers or "agendas"; we will rely on member clinics
and operating sessions on member layouts. We have also discussed touring
railroads in the area to better understand modeling such areas, regional
history or just having an outing with like-minded modelers. While modeling
is a major goal, properly understanding the prototype is key to duplicating
it in scale, so 1:1 scale tours are also of interest.



No dues are required but, depending on location, we may need to chip in to
cover room/building rental, etc. for a specific meet.



We plan to meet at least twice a year in one of three target locations:
Johnson City, Knoxville and Asheville/Hendersonville.



Communication will be via email. Friends of yours without email access are
also welcomed but you'll need to get meeting info, etc. to them or have them
snail-mail contact info, including a phone number to me so as to not be
excluded from future communication. Or you can forward this contact info to
me off-list and I'll tabulate with the group. Phone calls will be the
primary communication method for non-emailers.



Those in attendance feel we can grow the group to between 35 and 45 in short
order simply by spreading the word on email lists and amongst our friends.
While it's almost a certainty that we won't have that number of folks
attending each meet, we can comfortably handle 20-25 each time . but NO ONE
will be turned away (an advance "I'll be there" notice is required to ensure
we have adequate meeting room space).



Speaking for the group, I encourage each of you living in this area of the
U.S. to consider joining us on our next meet sometime in early Summer. The
group can ONLY be as diverse and informative as those in attendance. It's a
GREAT way to meet other scalers too.



Jim King

Smoky Mountain Model Works, Inc.

www.smokymountainmodelworks.com


Re: Santa Fe car spotters

Richard Townsend
 

The more important question is what is that right behind the tender?? If it's on its way to California, will it be routed home over Sherman Hill?<VBG>


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: jerryglow2 <jerryglow@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 7:44 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Santa Fe car spotters






What is the car on the right of this photo:
http://www.shorpy.com/node/626?size=_original

The first few digits of the car number are not visible and I'm not
familar enough with SF cars to ID it.

TIA
Jerry Glow





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More new features than ever. Check out the new AIM(R) Mail ! - http://webmail.aim.com


Re: TOFC

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

James Fellows wrote:
While perhaps just outside the 1960 cut of this list Athearn is currently selling 50' flats with 40' trailers. Con Cor in the past has also sold RTR 50' cars with trailers.
These are okay if you don't mind that the Athearn flat has no protoype.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: TOFC

James Fellows
 

While perhaps just outside the 1960 cut of this list Athearn is currently selling 50' flats with 40' trailers. Con Cor in the past has also sold RTR 50' cars with trailers.

Jim Fellows

----- Original Message -----
From: benjaminfrank_hom
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 12:06 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: TOFC


Peter Ness wrote:
"The best stab I can take at an answer to RTR TOFC would be some of
the older (OOP?) Walthers TOFC cars."

Excellent choice; unfortunately, these have not been offered in RTR to
date, which doesn't answer Joel's question.

Ben Hom


Re: ORER abbreviation question

Stokes John
 

"Despatch," older spelling, same as "dispatch," current usage, means simply "to send off or out promptly, usually on a specific errand or official business," or as a noun, "efficient speed; promptness," according to my dictionary. The Spanish and Old French spelling had an "e" while the Italian uses an "i". The term was apparently in vogue in the late 19th and early 20th centuries in railroading for obvious reasons.

John Stokes
Bellevue, WA


To: STMFC@...: estcbq@...: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 12:40:20 -0500Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: ORER abbreviation question




i have seen "despatch" applied to railroad names as A.C.D. and to rolling stock. what is the origin and use?of "despatch" within railroading?? thanks Jim Young@...>To: STMFC@...: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 3:19 amSubject: [STMFC] Re: ORER abbreviation questionThanks to Lou Whiteley and Frank Valoczy for explaining that A.C.D. is an abbreviation for Atlantic Coast Despatch.Best wishes, Larry OstreshLaramie, Wyoming__________________________________________________________More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com


Re: ORER abbreviation question

estcbq@...
 

i have seen "despatch" applied to railroad names as A.C.D. and to rolling stock. what is the origin and use?of "despatch" within railroading?? thanks Jim Young



@uwyo.edu>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 3:19 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: ORER abbreviation question






Thanks to Lou Whiteley and Frank Valoczy for explaining that A.C.D. is
an abbreviation for Atlantic Coast Despatch.

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming





________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com


Re: TOFC

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Peter Ness wrote:
"The best stab I can take at an answer to RTR TOFC would be some of
the older (OOP?) Walthers TOFC cars."

Excellent choice; unfortunately, these have not been offered in RTR to
date, which doesn't answer Joel's question.


Ben Hom


Re: TOFC

Peter Ness
 

Hi;

This is my first post to this group, so I hope I abide by the
netiquette rules...

First, hosam never did recieve much of an actual reply to his
original
question....

hosam,

Your question probably received mixed responses in part because your
subject was "TOFC", which actually drew me to read the entire
thread. TOFC by definition is "Trailer on Flat Car", so your subject
combined with your question about trucks on flat cars is a bit
misleading. having said that...

Very briefly, C&NW is generally attributed with the first regularly
scheduled TOFC service ca. 1932. The New Haven began regular TOFC
service between Boston and NYC (Harlem River Yard) ca. 1937. Both
railroads used flat cars specically modified to carry trailers ( a
variety of jack stands, chocks and tie-down chains) in transit
between loading docks built specifically for the "circus-style"
loading and unloading trailers. Other railroads may have used
limited service this early but these two had trains in regularly
scheduled year-round service, hence are attributed as "early
intermodal" operations.

Jumping to hosam's original question about "trucks", which I am
interpreting to mean tractors - the motorized vehicle that hauls a
trailer - in addition to circus trains (which were special
movements), during the period surrounding WWII, military vehicles,
including trucks, were transported around the country on a regular
basis. Usually, the vehicles were loaded and secured to standard
flats, not flats specifically designed for TOFC use, the movements
fit the description of "trucks" moved on flatcars. In the post-WWII
era, in preparation for Civil Defense in the infancy of the Nuclear
Age, there were also special movements of trucks - fire fighting
apparatus in particular - that were loaded on general service flats
for movements during drills. In one case, the New Haven ran such a
train in CT, with the submarine base in Groton being the
reported "disaster site". Other than those times, in the contiguous
US, loading of tractor and trailer together on a flat would not fit
the regularly accepted definition of a TOFC operation, although I am
sure there is much photographic evidence to show the movement of
tractor-trailers on flat cars for specific reasons. In fact, some
very
early (pre-TOFC?) movements did include tractors with trailers when
trailer length rarely exceeded 24'.

Back to TOFC history; in the 1950's Piggy Back Inc. began operations,
the Pennsy began TrucTrain operations, and later the Trailer Train
consortium began operations. The ACF standard hitches were developed
and led to standization in TOFC operations to support rail car
interchange among railroads. That, in general takes us to the end of
the time period of interest to this group.

Joel, I am sorry I cannot provide specific information to answer your
question. To the best of my knowledge, B&M was possibly the only
railroad to provide TOFC operations to Maine. I do know the B&M had
trailers. It is possible there was interchange of TOFC cars from New
Haven to B&M via trains M-6 and M-7 (Maine Bullet) in Worcester, MA.
Also possible for such interchange at Worcester with Train N-1. I
have no knowldege of possible TOFC operations on MEC or BAR. You
might check the B&M Railroad Historical Society web site for possible
information regarding TOFC movements in ME.

The best stab I can take at an answer to RTR TOFC would be some of
the older (OOP?) Walthers TOFC cars. By the early-mid '60's, the 85'
and longer TOFC cars were making inroads in New England, and were
already in much more prevalent use in the rest of the contiguous US.

Regards,
Peter
http://www.freewebs.com/newhavenrailroad1959/



--- In STMFC@..., "joel norman" <mec-bml@...> wrote:

GENTLEMAN: For our modeling time frame(my own railroad is set in
Maine
1960))which of the ready to run(bad hands and weak eyes)in HO would
be
the best 50 ft(or 60ft)flat car for TOFC use...
Thanks
Joel Norman... Eastern Maine Rly


Re: TOFC

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Joel Norman wrote:
"GENTLEMAN: For our modeling time frame (my own railroad is set in
Maine 1960) which of the ready to run (bad hands and weak eyes)in HO
would be the best 50 ft (or 60 ft) flat car for TOFC use..."

Based on your constraints (RTR, 50 or 60 ft car), NONE.

Athearn did offer a RTR release of their 85 ft Trailer Train TOFC flat
in late 2006 (ATH 7422x series) in the early Trailer Train paint
scheme which fits your 1960 era. Modeling other TOFC prototypes for
that era will require building and modifying kits.


Ben Hom


TOFC

joel norman <mec-bml@...>
 

GENTLEMAN: For our modeling time frame(my own railroad is set in Maine
1960))which of the ready to run(bad hands and weak eyes)in HO would be
the best 50 ft(or 60ft)flat car for TOFC use...
Thanks
Joel Norman... Eastern Maine Rly


Re: ORER abbreviation question

laramielarry <ostresh@...>
 

Thanks to Lou Whiteley and Frank Valoczy for explaining that A.C.D. is
an abbreviation for Atlantic Coast Despatch.

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming


Re: Santa Fe car spotters

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 15, 2007, at 7:44 PM, jerryglow2 wrote:

What is the car on the right of this photo:
http://www.shorpy.com/node/626?size=_original

The first few digits of the car number are not visible and I'm not
familar enough with SF cars to ID it.
It was an Fe-21 class 50' single door box car, ATSF 7368, rebuilt in
1940 for auto parts service from a 1928 Fe-S class double wood sheathed
composite automobile car. Note the National B-1 truck. There were 50
Fe-21s numbered 7350-7399. They were originally intended to be double
door auto cars with end doors and because the order wasn't changed
until the rebuilding process was well along, the first five cars, ATSF
7350-7354, were rebuilt with end doors, as were the Fe-22 and Fe-23
class double door auto cars which followed later in the year. As it
happens, I have a photo of ATSF 7369, the next car in the series, at
the time it was rolled out of the Topeka shops in November, 1940. All
of the Fe-21s had "Grand Canyon Line" slogans on the right side, early
style 50' straight line maps on the left.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Santa Fe car spotters

charles slater
 

It looks like an Fe-21 class car rebuilt in 1940 from an Fe-S class car. They were numbered 7350-7399 and all 50 cars were lettered with the Grand Canyon Line slogan. These were 50 foot single door cars and the first 5 cars had end doors on them. There is two good photos of them in the book "Furniture and Automobile Box Cars" by Richard Hendrickson published by the Santa Fe Railway Historical and Modeling Society on pages 82 and 83.Charlie SlaterTo: STMFC@...: fleeta@...: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 23:09:03 -0500Subject: Re: [STMFC] Santa Fe car spotters


















It's stenciled Fe-something, Fe-2 maybe?

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: jerryglow2
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 10:44 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Santa Fe car spotters

What is the car on the right of this photo:
http://www.shorpy.com/node/626?size=_original

The first few digits of the car number are not visible and I'm not
familar enough with SF cars to ID it.






















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