Date   

Fe vs. Bx was:Santa Fe car spotters

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

What was the distinction the ATSF made between Box and Furniture cars - double doors?

KL


New S scale group formed

Jim King
 

A gathering of approximately 18 S scale modelers met for the first time
yesterday at ETSU in Johnson City, TN. Our common interest is S scale
modeling (not hi-rail), including Sn2, Sn3 and Sn42, though there was no
attendee modeling the latter (that I know of). Among the group were three
manufacturers from this region. All of us are from western NC and eastern
TN.



Following lunch-on-your-own and 4 clinics/speakers, including very
informative history lessons about the city's 3 RR's, how to make simple
conifer trees and a quick 'n simple application for el-cheapo white LEDs
from Walmart, we toured the under-restoration ex-Clinchfield freight station
and former ET&WNC "Union Station", still active as the "Free Service tire
center" since 1954. We then gathered back at ETSU for a wrap up, Q&A
session, then adjourned with the promise to continue similar gatherings.



We welcome anyone modeling in S scale, regardless of gauge, living within an
approximate 2-hour driving radius from Johnson City or Knoxville who's
interested in exchanging modeling ideas and/or attending layout operating
sessions, to contact me off-list for info about the group. If you live
farther than the "2-hour circle" we'll certainly not exclude you but
traveling to/from a day-long meeting may be challenging. We encourage folks
from Chattanooga, northeast Georgia, middle Tennessee, southwest Virginia
and southern Kentucky to attend. However, the goal is to remain essentially
centered within the Asheville/Johnson City/Knoxville triangle as that's
where the core group seems to reside.



The group's name is Blue Ridge "S"calers.



Next meeting location (about 6 months from now) will be in the Knoxville/Oak
Ridge, TN area.



We do not plan to have officers or "agendas"; we will rely on member clinics
and operating sessions on member layouts. We have also discussed touring
railroads in the area to better understand modeling such areas, regional
history or just having an outing with like-minded modelers. While modeling
is a major goal, properly understanding the prototype is key to duplicating
it in scale, so 1:1 scale tours are also of interest.



No dues are required but, depending on location, we may need to chip in to
cover room/building rental, etc. for a specific meet.



We plan to meet at least twice a year in one of three target locations:
Johnson City, Knoxville and Asheville/Hendersonville.



Communication will be via email. Friends of yours without email access are
also welcomed but you'll need to get meeting info, etc. to them or have them
snail-mail contact info, including a phone number to me so as to not be
excluded from future communication. Or you can forward this contact info to
me off-list and I'll tabulate with the group. Phone calls will be the
primary communication method for non-emailers.



Those in attendance feel we can grow the group to between 35 and 45 in short
order simply by spreading the word on email lists and amongst our friends.
While it's almost a certainty that we won't have that number of folks
attending each meet, we can comfortably handle 20-25 each time . but NO ONE
will be turned away (an advance "I'll be there" notice is required to ensure
we have adequate meeting room space).



Speaking for the group, I encourage each of you living in this area of the
U.S. to consider joining us on our next meet sometime in early Summer. The
group can ONLY be as diverse and informative as those in attendance. It's a
GREAT way to meet other scalers too.



Jim King

Smoky Mountain Model Works, Inc.

www.smokymountainmodelworks.com


Re: Santa Fe car spotters

Richard Townsend
 

The more important question is what is that right behind the tender?? If it's on its way to California, will it be routed home over Sherman Hill?<VBG>


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: jerryglow2 <jerryglow@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 7:44 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Santa Fe car spotters






What is the car on the right of this photo:
http://www.shorpy.com/node/626?size=_original

The first few digits of the car number are not visible and I'm not
familar enough with SF cars to ID it.

TIA
Jerry Glow





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Re: TOFC

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

James Fellows wrote:
While perhaps just outside the 1960 cut of this list Athearn is currently selling 50' flats with 40' trailers. Con Cor in the past has also sold RTR 50' cars with trailers.
These are okay if you don't mind that the Athearn flat has no protoype.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: TOFC

James Fellows
 

While perhaps just outside the 1960 cut of this list Athearn is currently selling 50' flats with 40' trailers. Con Cor in the past has also sold RTR 50' cars with trailers.

Jim Fellows

----- Original Message -----
From: benjaminfrank_hom
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 12:06 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: TOFC


Peter Ness wrote:
"The best stab I can take at an answer to RTR TOFC would be some of
the older (OOP?) Walthers TOFC cars."

Excellent choice; unfortunately, these have not been offered in RTR to
date, which doesn't answer Joel's question.

Ben Hom


Re: ORER abbreviation question

Stokes John
 

"Despatch," older spelling, same as "dispatch," current usage, means simply "to send off or out promptly, usually on a specific errand or official business," or as a noun, "efficient speed; promptness," according to my dictionary. The Spanish and Old French spelling had an "e" while the Italian uses an "i". The term was apparently in vogue in the late 19th and early 20th centuries in railroading for obvious reasons.

John Stokes
Bellevue, WA


To: STMFC@...: estcbq@...: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 12:40:20 -0500Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: ORER abbreviation question




i have seen "despatch" applied to railroad names as A.C.D. and to rolling stock. what is the origin and use?of "despatch" within railroading?? thanks Jim Young@...>To: STMFC@...: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 3:19 amSubject: [STMFC] Re: ORER abbreviation questionThanks to Lou Whiteley and Frank Valoczy for explaining that A.C.D. is an abbreviation for Atlantic Coast Despatch.Best wishes, Larry OstreshLaramie, Wyoming__________________________________________________________More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com


Re: ORER abbreviation question

estcbq@...
 

i have seen "despatch" applied to railroad names as A.C.D. and to rolling stock. what is the origin and use?of "despatch" within railroading?? thanks Jim Young



@uwyo.edu>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 3:19 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: ORER abbreviation question






Thanks to Lou Whiteley and Frank Valoczy for explaining that A.C.D. is
an abbreviation for Atlantic Coast Despatch.

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming





________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com


Re: TOFC

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Peter Ness wrote:
"The best stab I can take at an answer to RTR TOFC would be some of
the older (OOP?) Walthers TOFC cars."

Excellent choice; unfortunately, these have not been offered in RTR to
date, which doesn't answer Joel's question.


Ben Hom


Re: TOFC

Peter Ness
 

Hi;

This is my first post to this group, so I hope I abide by the
netiquette rules...

First, hosam never did recieve much of an actual reply to his
original
question....

hosam,

Your question probably received mixed responses in part because your
subject was "TOFC", which actually drew me to read the entire
thread. TOFC by definition is "Trailer on Flat Car", so your subject
combined with your question about trucks on flat cars is a bit
misleading. having said that...

Very briefly, C&NW is generally attributed with the first regularly
scheduled TOFC service ca. 1932. The New Haven began regular TOFC
service between Boston and NYC (Harlem River Yard) ca. 1937. Both
railroads used flat cars specically modified to carry trailers ( a
variety of jack stands, chocks and tie-down chains) in transit
between loading docks built specifically for the "circus-style"
loading and unloading trailers. Other railroads may have used
limited service this early but these two had trains in regularly
scheduled year-round service, hence are attributed as "early
intermodal" operations.

Jumping to hosam's original question about "trucks", which I am
interpreting to mean tractors - the motorized vehicle that hauls a
trailer - in addition to circus trains (which were special
movements), during the period surrounding WWII, military vehicles,
including trucks, were transported around the country on a regular
basis. Usually, the vehicles were loaded and secured to standard
flats, not flats specifically designed for TOFC use, the movements
fit the description of "trucks" moved on flatcars. In the post-WWII
era, in preparation for Civil Defense in the infancy of the Nuclear
Age, there were also special movements of trucks - fire fighting
apparatus in particular - that were loaded on general service flats
for movements during drills. In one case, the New Haven ran such a
train in CT, with the submarine base in Groton being the
reported "disaster site". Other than those times, in the contiguous
US, loading of tractor and trailer together on a flat would not fit
the regularly accepted definition of a TOFC operation, although I am
sure there is much photographic evidence to show the movement of
tractor-trailers on flat cars for specific reasons. In fact, some
very
early (pre-TOFC?) movements did include tractors with trailers when
trailer length rarely exceeded 24'.

Back to TOFC history; in the 1950's Piggy Back Inc. began operations,
the Pennsy began TrucTrain operations, and later the Trailer Train
consortium began operations. The ACF standard hitches were developed
and led to standization in TOFC operations to support rail car
interchange among railroads. That, in general takes us to the end of
the time period of interest to this group.

Joel, I am sorry I cannot provide specific information to answer your
question. To the best of my knowledge, B&M was possibly the only
railroad to provide TOFC operations to Maine. I do know the B&M had
trailers. It is possible there was interchange of TOFC cars from New
Haven to B&M via trains M-6 and M-7 (Maine Bullet) in Worcester, MA.
Also possible for such interchange at Worcester with Train N-1. I
have no knowldege of possible TOFC operations on MEC or BAR. You
might check the B&M Railroad Historical Society web site for possible
information regarding TOFC movements in ME.

The best stab I can take at an answer to RTR TOFC would be some of
the older (OOP?) Walthers TOFC cars. By the early-mid '60's, the 85'
and longer TOFC cars were making inroads in New England, and were
already in much more prevalent use in the rest of the contiguous US.

Regards,
Peter
http://www.freewebs.com/newhavenrailroad1959/



--- In STMFC@..., "joel norman" <mec-bml@...> wrote:

GENTLEMAN: For our modeling time frame(my own railroad is set in
Maine
1960))which of the ready to run(bad hands and weak eyes)in HO would
be
the best 50 ft(or 60ft)flat car for TOFC use...
Thanks
Joel Norman... Eastern Maine Rly


Re: TOFC

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Joel Norman wrote:
"GENTLEMAN: For our modeling time frame (my own railroad is set in
Maine 1960) which of the ready to run (bad hands and weak eyes)in HO
would be the best 50 ft (or 60 ft) flat car for TOFC use..."

Based on your constraints (RTR, 50 or 60 ft car), NONE.

Athearn did offer a RTR release of their 85 ft Trailer Train TOFC flat
in late 2006 (ATH 7422x series) in the early Trailer Train paint
scheme which fits your 1960 era. Modeling other TOFC prototypes for
that era will require building and modifying kits.


Ben Hom


TOFC

joel norman <mec-bml@...>
 

GENTLEMAN: For our modeling time frame(my own railroad is set in Maine
1960))which of the ready to run(bad hands and weak eyes)in HO would be
the best 50 ft(or 60ft)flat car for TOFC use...
Thanks
Joel Norman... Eastern Maine Rly


Re: ORER abbreviation question

laramielarry <ostresh@...>
 

Thanks to Lou Whiteley and Frank Valoczy for explaining that A.C.D. is
an abbreviation for Atlantic Coast Despatch.

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming


Re: Santa Fe car spotters

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 15, 2007, at 7:44 PM, jerryglow2 wrote:

What is the car on the right of this photo:
http://www.shorpy.com/node/626?size=_original

The first few digits of the car number are not visible and I'm not
familar enough with SF cars to ID it.
It was an Fe-21 class 50' single door box car, ATSF 7368, rebuilt in
1940 for auto parts service from a 1928 Fe-S class double wood sheathed
composite automobile car. Note the National B-1 truck. There were 50
Fe-21s numbered 7350-7399. They were originally intended to be double
door auto cars with end doors and because the order wasn't changed
until the rebuilding process was well along, the first five cars, ATSF
7350-7354, were rebuilt with end doors, as were the Fe-22 and Fe-23
class double door auto cars which followed later in the year. As it
happens, I have a photo of ATSF 7369, the next car in the series, at
the time it was rolled out of the Topeka shops in November, 1940. All
of the Fe-21s had "Grand Canyon Line" slogans on the right side, early
style 50' straight line maps on the left.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Santa Fe car spotters

charles slater
 

It looks like an Fe-21 class car rebuilt in 1940 from an Fe-S class car. They were numbered 7350-7399 and all 50 cars were lettered with the Grand Canyon Line slogan. These were 50 foot single door cars and the first 5 cars had end doors on them. There is two good photos of them in the book "Furniture and Automobile Box Cars" by Richard Hendrickson published by the Santa Fe Railway Historical and Modeling Society on pages 82 and 83.Charlie SlaterTo: STMFC@...: fleeta@...: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 23:09:03 -0500Subject: Re: [STMFC] Santa Fe car spotters


















It's stenciled Fe-something, Fe-2 maybe?

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: jerryglow2
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 10:44 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Santa Fe car spotters

What is the car on the right of this photo:
http://www.shorpy.com/node/626?size=_original

The first few digits of the car number are not visible and I'm not
familar enough with SF cars to ID it.






















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Re: Santa Fe car spotters

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

It's stenciled Fe-something, Fe-2 maybe?

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: jerryglow2 To: STMFC@... Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 10:44 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Santa Fe car spotters


What is the car on the right of this photo:
http://www.shorpy.com/node/626?size=_original

The first few digits of the car number are not visible and I'm not familar enough with SF cars to ID it.


Re: Great photos - grain doors

charles slater
 

For what EVER reason, the cars were fumigated to kill or keep the bugs out or keep them from hatching in transit. Just trying to help. Take it or leave it. I am NOT a farmer.
Charlie Slater

To: STMFC@...
From: Ljack70117@...
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 19:04:49 -0500
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Great photos - grain doors




















FYI you can not keep the weevils out of the wheat. They are on the

wheat in the field and lay their eggs on the grain. even if the

fumigation kills them the eggs hatch and yo have ore weevils and more

eggs. Buy a bag of flour and let it sit in a warm room on a shelf

for a month or so and then open it. Ask yourself where did all the

weevils come from. Weevils do not get into cars of wheat when it is

in shipment. They are already there when it is loaded.

Larry Jackman

ljack70117@...

Boca Raton FL 33434

I want to die in my sleep like

my grandfather did, not screaming

like the other poeople in his car.



On Dec 15, 2007, at 6:50 PM, charles slater wrote:



Richard in the 1970's we used to get a lot of box cars loaded with
wheat or flower going to General Mills in L.A. that looked like
this and it was a paper and past seal because the cars were
fumigated in transit to keep the weevils out. Sometimes they would
even use newspaper for the seal. The cars also had a poison placard
taped to the car side or nailed to the tack boards.
Charlie Slater
To: STMFC@...
From: rhendrickson@...
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 09:50:11 -0800
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Great photos - grain doors
On Dec 15, 2007, at 9:18 AM, gn3397 wrote:
--- In STMFC@..., "Ned Carey" <nedspam@...> wrote:
Note the GN boxcar in the forground. It has what appears to be
remnants of a grain
door. Can someone explain this to me? Is this the door in normal
use,
i.e. some of the
door shows while the car is carrying grain? Alternatively is this a
case of the door has been
used in the past and remnants of the door remain, simply no one
bothered to remove
them. I think this would be a terrific detail to model.
Mr. Carey,
Actually, you aren't seeing a grain door. What you are seeing is a
heavy paper door seal
to prevent contamination of the boxcar's contents from moisture,
etc.
A grain door is a
wooden door comprised of horizontal boards that is nailed to the
inside of the wooden
door posts of steam era boxcars. These seals could of course
could be
used for protection
of other ladings as well. I have photos of other series of GN
boxcars
with these seals in
place, but haven't ever seen it modeled. Hope this helps.
Mr. Heniger is correct. There will be numerous photos of cars with
these waterproof paper door seals in my forthcoming Speedwitch Media
book, Focus on Freight Car Vol. 2, all of them on cars loaded with
bagged flour.
Richard Hendrickson
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_________________________________________________________________
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Santa Fe car spotters

jerryglow2
 

What is the car on the right of this photo:
http://www.shorpy.com/node/626?size=_original

The first few digits of the car number are not visible and I'm not
familar enough with SF cars to ID it.

TIA
Jerry Glow


Mike Rose Weathering DVD now available directly from Mike Rose Hobbies!

Mike Rose <miker@...>
 

Please forgive this one-time post if it's considered at all off-topic,
thanks.

I just wanted to let everyone know that I now have my weathering DVD in
stock and ready to deliver in time for Christmas. This DVD covers all
of the topics related to weathering that I've demonstrated in my
prototype clinics, with the added advantage of more detail, and
high-resolution close-up photos clearly showing the techniques. One of
the disadvantages of the live clinics is that if you are towards the
back of the room, it's difficult to actually see what I'm doing with any
detail.

All materials needed are also covered, and the methods apply to freight
cars, locomotives, structures, and even layout scenery.

You can read about and order the disk at this link:
http://www.mrhobby.com/WeatheringDVD.html

Please note that multiple disks can be shipped for one shipping charge,
if you have any questions about that don't hesitate to contact me
directly. Thanks very much!

-Mike Rose


wow what's that. - Re: Great photos

Jerry <jrs060@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Dennis Storzek" <destorzek@...> wrote:
What is that huge tressle in the background? Auto bridge?


The trestle in the background is Manheim Road, which still crosses
over the center of the yard, now on a modern steel and concrete deck
bridge.

Dennis

My friend I think it's not the old Manheim Road bridge, it's
actually the old Wolf Road bridge. This one later burned in a
fire, remember your at the far West end of the yard looking a
the old South Rip. The Manheim Road bridge was much farther East
of the Wolf Road bridge.
I'm surprised that no one has noted the pneumatic tube line on
wooden uprights crossing the picture just North of the Rip Track.
This was used to send waybills and switch list back and forth to
the different yard offices in metal tube rabbits. How I hated
to get the lists out of the tubes and get my hands all dirt when
removing them and waybills!
What a reminder with the lumber being shipped in and on open
cars. It was shipped this way an riped be lumber mill dealers
into the sizes they wanted later.
See the Soo line box car?

Seasonal Regards,

Jerry Stewart

In a snowy Woodstock, Illinois


Re: Athearn boxcar underframes

djm1141 <dmueller183@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "sfeforever" <dwedel1@...> wrote:

Hi. Now that my layouts at eye level I've been worried about
underframe
details. Most kits other than Athearn have the brake cylinder pistons
in line with the brake staff in relation to the center sill. Are
Athearn boxcar underframes wrong ? Hope this isn't too stupid a
question to answer here. LOL.
Thanks,
Dwight Wedel.
PS If this question has been answered before please forgive me.

The story I heard is than old Irvin was working on the dies for the
cars, I did not realise that the plan he was working from was a
overhead view. The cars have been backward for over 50 years now.

Dave

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