Date   

Re: Cranberries

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
I share Tony's skepticism about what he aptly terms "an interesting speculation." Obviously, many SFRD and PFE reefers went to New England with loads of western produce, and their owners would have been happy to have them sent back west loaded with cranberries as opposed to having them returned empty.
I can't speak for SFRD on this, but it's not true for PFE in peak harvest season--it was far more important to get the empties back to their own shippers, and westbound loads were most certainly NOT PFE's focus. But the cranberry season is outside the peak PFE harvest season, so I would agree with Richard on this particular case.

But there is no evidence in the SFRD files of any formal pool service agreement, and certainly not of an agreement that required SFRD to provide cars for this traffic. Nor would have such an agreement been needed; since perishable traffic was much heavier eastbound than westbound, there were doubtless empty PFE and SFRD reefers readily available in the area during the Cranberry harvest season.
I think this is correct for New England, but I was mostly responding to Greg's suggestion that SFRD reefers might have been used for the Oregon cranberry harvest. I'm pretty skeptical.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Cranberries

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 20, 2007, at 10:37 AM, Anthony Thompson wrote:

Greg Martin wrote:
> Product reaching the LA markets were likely seen in PFE or ATSF and
> some WFEX cars (likely in that order) based on demand. Some might
> question the SFRD cars with cranberries, but it make perfect sense
as
> I am sure the folks at Western Fruit Express would request that the
> Santa Fe supply their own cars into the pool to supply their
markets,
> or at?least allow their car to be reloaded towards home roads?once
> unloaded with fresh Navel?Oranges that ended up in the PNW,
equipment
> sharing was part of the marketing exchange game.

This is an interesting speculation and it would be nice to find
evidence. I personally doubt if it happened this way, as the WFE
people
were responsible to their own roads and would have preferred their own
cars. Certainly in other markets served by SFRD and PFE there was no
such "market pool" for particular crops, even if such pools did exist
for other products.
I share Tony's skepticism about what he aptly terms "an interesting
speculation." Obviously, many SFRD and PFE reefers went to New England
with loads of western produce, and their owners would have been happy
to have them sent back west loaded with cranberries as opposed to
having them returned empty. But there is no evidence in the SFRD files
of any formal pool service agreement, and certainly not of an agreement
that required SFRD to provide cars for this traffic. Nor would have
such an agreement been needed; since perishable traffic was much
heavier eastbound than westbound, there were doubtless empty PFE and
SFRD reefers readily available in the area during the Cranberry harvest
season. Here again, as always when we're talking about reefer traffic,
it's necessary to specify the date; foreign road reefers would have
been more likely to be loaded with cranberries between 1942 and 1948,
when the federal mandate was in effect that placed all refrigerator
cars in a single pool, than before or after that period, when the
railroads preferred to load the cars they owned or, in this case,
leased from FGE.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Helper Service- Morrell Reefers

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 20, 2007, at 9:26 AM, Bob Chaparro wrote:

Can anyone provide some help for Vic?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA
==============================

Hi, Has anyone found any photos or drawings of a wood sided Morrell
Reefer. I would like to scratchbuild a couple, since I just found some
decals for these. I know I can probably use an Armour or Swift reefer
as a model for scratchbuilding, but I was hoping to use some prototype
photos or drawings of a prototype to get any special details or
differences Morrel may have had.
Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris
There's no way to respond to this request without knowing what time
period Vic models, as well as more details about the decal sets he
found. Morrell was perpetually in receivership and, owing to its
weakened financial condition, not only operated reefers under its own
MRX reporting marks but also, at various times, leased cars from Union
Refrigerator Transit under MRUX reporting marks and from the Mather
Stock Car Co. under MORX reporting marks. All of these cars were forty
foot RSMs, so basing a model on an Armour or Swift car (mostly
thirty-six foot reefers) would obviously be a mistake. Furthermore,
the Morell cars were not at all alike in many respects and, in
addition, stenciling styles differed from one car owner to another and
from one era to another. It is essential to know what reporting marks
are in the decal sets as well as what form the Morrell lettering/logo
is in and what the dimensional data shows. It might then be possible
to determine which prototype cars to model. Once that is determined, I
probably have photos which would be helpful.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Helper Service- Morrell Reefers

joe binish <joebinish@...>
 

GeneGreen's book on Reefers, published by Morning Sun, has few shots of wood sheathed Morrell cars.

Joe Binish

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Chaparro" <thecitrusbelt@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 11:26 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Helper Service- Morrell Reefers


Can anyone provide some help for Vic?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA
==============================

Hi, Has anyone found any photos or drawings of a wood sided Morrell
Reefer. I would like to scratchbuild a couple, since I just found some
decals for these. I know I can probably use an Armour or Swift reefer
as a model for scratchbuilding, but I was hoping to use some prototype
photos or drawings of a prototype to get any special details or
differences Morrel may have had.
Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris





Yahoo! Groups Links




Re: Cranberries

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Greg Martin wrote:
Product reaching the LA markets were likely seen in PFE or ATSF and some WFEX cars (likely in that order) based on demand. Some might question the SFRD cars with cranberries, but it make perfect sense as I am sure the folks at Western Fruit Express would request that the Santa Fe supply their own cars into the pool to supply their markets, or at?least allow their car to be reloaded towards home roads?once unloaded with fresh Navel?Oranges that ended up in the PNW, equipment sharing was part of the marketing exchange game.
This is an interesting speculation and it would be nice to find evidence. I personally doubt if it happened this way, as the WFE people were responsible to their own roads and would have preferred their own cars. Certainly in other markets served by SFRD and PFE there was no such "market pool" for particular crops, even if such pools did exist for other products.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Cranberries

Greg Martin
 

Jerry and all,



To answer part of your question, the New Haven was part of Fruit Growers Express and I would expect that?the vast majority?of the crop was shipped in FGEX (or members equipment) if it were destined for markets that they served. Evidence of this can be found in many shots of?New Haven yards.?If a portion of the crop were to go to markets (read as end users) not served by member roads(FGEX/BREX/WFEX) then those roads would likely have supplied cars for their receivers. But reading a bit on the industry it was fairly well spread out into Wisconsin (served by likely BREX and NWX), Oregon (the Bandon Dunes, Coos Bay area SP served) and Washington State (likely served by WFEX, NP and MLW roads) to distribute in their own markets. Product reaching the LA markets were likely seen in PFE or ATSF and some WFEX cars (likely in that order) based on demand. Some might question the SFRD cars with cranberries, but it make perfect sense as I am sure the folks at Western Fruit Express would request that the Santa Fe supply their own cars into the pool to supply their markets, or at?least allow their car to be reloaded towards home roads?once unloaded with fresh Navel?Oranges that ended up in the PNW, equipment sharing was part of the marketing exchange game. Canadians had their production from British Columbia and Quebec so I? would look for product in those markets in their own cars, but with the vast majority of thier population being within 100 miles of the border some US cars might end up in the mix if they were exporting into the US markets.
?
Greg Martin

-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Dziedzic <jerdz@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 7:02 am
Subject: [STMFC] Cranberries







I find that L&HR handled 250-400 cars per year of cranberries
originating on the New Haven in 1946-1950. This comes from L&HR
annual traffic reports.

It appears that these were fresh cranberries. One of the reports
explains that loadings were down that year because market conditions
resulted in berries being attracted to canning operations.

A major shipper named is American Cranberry Exchange, half or more of
the total. No location is given.

I assume that this traffic was seasonal, timed between harvest,
Thanksgiving, and Christmas.

Does anyone have more information? Was this handled in reefers?
Whose? What other connecting roads handled New Haven berries? How
much was the total of berry traffic?

May as well say a few things more and get them off my chest: I'm
looking forward to getting bogged (drum roll) down in detail. Thank
you, berry, berry much.

Jerry Dziedzic
Pattenburg, NJ





________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com


Re: Cranberries

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "joe binish" <joebinish@...> wrote:

Help! Isn't there something in the "bylaws" of the STMFC against bad
puns?
Joe Binish

I thought it was berry good, Joe

Clark (south of crazyland) Propst


Re: diluting Barge contact cement

Bob Sterner
 

Another way to use the MEK-diluted Barge is to apply it to one
surface, let it dry (several minutes), place the parts together, and
then dab with MEK. A secure bond will form in less than a minute in
most cases. This is how Central Valley recommends install rail to
their tie strips. I've started to use the technique on rolling stock
models too. CVT claims that it holds rail to ties for many years. I
hope that's true, otherwise a very large module project of mine has a
shorter life span than I intend!

Bob Sterner

--- In STMFC@..., "jim_mischke" <jmischke@...> wrote:



One time, I had a fruitful discussion with Ted Culotta about an
adhesive application technique .... diluting Barge contact cement
with
methyl ethyl ketone. It would combine the effectivness of Barge
cement
with the fluidity and wicking action of solvent.

Where does one get methyl ethyl ketone? Is this what Plastruct
solvent is?


Re: Cranberries

Richard Townsend
 

Oh, give him a break!? He was just trying to cran as many puns into one message as he could.


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: joe binish <joebinish@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 8:18 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Cranberries






Help! Isn't there something in the "bylaws" of the STMFC against bad puns?
Shouldn't Jerry be put in the dungeon for such virtual abuse? Save us Mike
the Moderator!!!!

Joe Binish

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Dziedzic" <jerdz@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 9:02 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Cranberries

I find that L&HR handled 250-400 cars per year of cranberries
originating on the New Haven in 1946-1950. This comes from L&HR
annual traffic reports.

It appears that these were fresh cranberries. One of the reports
explains that loadings were down that year because market conditions
resulted in berries being attracted to canning operations.

A major shipper named is American Cranberry Exchange, half or more of
the total. No location is given.

I assume that this traffic was seasonal, timed between harvest,
Thanksgiving, and Christmas.

Does anyone have more information? Was this handled in reefers?
Whose? What other connecting roads handled New Haven berries? How
much was the total of berry traffic?

May as well say a few things more and get them off my chest: I'm
looking forward to getting bogged (drum roll) down in detail. Thank
you, berry, berry much.


Jerry Dziedzic
Pattenburg, NJ




Yahoo! Groups Links







________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AIM(R) Mail ! - http://webmail.aim.com


Helper Service- Morrell Reefers

Bob Chaparro <thecitrusbelt@...>
 

Can anyone provide some help for Vic?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA
==============================

Hi, Has anyone found any photos or drawings of a wood sided Morrell
Reefer. I would like to scratchbuild a couple, since I just found some
decals for these. I know I can probably use an Armour or Swift reefer
as a model for scratchbuilding, but I was hoping to use some prototype
photos or drawings of a prototype to get any special details or
differences Morrel may have had.
Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris


Re: Transporting Sheep In Open Top Cars

Charlie Vlk
 

The Beet Car rack is built on a pressed steel flatcar.
It is a different style rack than the one loaded with sheep (the sheep car has more side bracing).
Interesting shots...
Charlie Vlk


Re: Cranberries

joe binish <joebinish@...>
 

Help! Isn't there something in the "bylaws" of the STMFC against bad puns? Shouldn't Jerry be put in the dungeon for such virtual abuse? Save us Mike the Moderator!!!!

Joe Binish

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Dziedzic" <jerdz@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 9:02 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Cranberries


I find that L&HR handled 250-400 cars per year of cranberries
originating on the New Haven in 1946-1950. This comes from L&HR
annual traffic reports.

It appears that these were fresh cranberries. One of the reports
explains that loadings were down that year because market conditions
resulted in berries being attracted to canning operations.

A major shipper named is American Cranberry Exchange, half or more of
the total. No location is given.

I assume that this traffic was seasonal, timed between harvest,
Thanksgiving, and Christmas.

Does anyone have more information? Was this handled in reefers?
Whose? What other connecting roads handled New Haven berries? How
much was the total of berry traffic?

May as well say a few things more and get them off my chest: I'm
looking forward to getting bogged (drum roll) down in detail. Thank
you, berry, berry much.


Jerry Dziedzic
Pattenburg, NJ




Yahoo! Groups Links




Re: Fruit Growers Express Reefers

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Gwennyth Patrick wrote:
"The Pennsylvania RR Museum in Strasburg apparently has one.. you can
see it in a large, zoomable panoramic image here:
http://gigapan.org/viewGigapan.php?id=1693

Careful - the name of the museum is the RAILROAD MUSEUM OF
PENNSYLVANIA. The museum staff will vigorously correct you if you
call it the "Pennsylvania Railroad Museum".


Ben Hom


Re: Fruit Growers Express Reefers

Bill Kelly
 

The Mad River & NKP Railroad Museum in Bellevue, Ohio
http://www.madrivermuseum.org/index.html
has FGEX 35932 in captivity.
http://www.madrivermuseum.org/61.jpg

Later,
Bill Kelly


Dennis Storzek wrote:

snip<
Also one at the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn, MI.


Re: Cranberries

al_brown03
 

For info on the American Cranberry Exchange, try this link:

http://www.umass.edu/agcenter/documents/cranberry_situation.pdf

ACE was formed in 1910 by merging a co-op out of Middleboro, Mass.,
with one in southern New Jersey. Berries they shipped over the New
Haven were almost certainly from Cape Cod.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.



--- In STMFC@..., "Jerry Dziedzic" <jerdz@...> wrote:

I find that L&HR handled 250-400 cars per year of cranberries
originating on the New Haven in 1946-1950. This comes from L&HR
annual traffic reports.

It appears that these were fresh cranberries. One of the reports
explains that loadings were down that year because market
conditions
resulted in berries being attracted to canning operations.

A major shipper named is American Cranberry Exchange, half or more
of
the total. No location is given.

I assume that this traffic was seasonal, timed between harvest,
Thanksgiving, and Christmas.

Does anyone have more information? Was this handled in reefers?
Whose? What other connecting roads handled New Haven berries? How
much was the total of berry traffic?

May as well say a few things more and get them off my chest: I'm
looking forward to getting bogged (drum roll) down in detail.
Thank
you, berry, berry much.


Jerry Dziedzic
Pattenburg, NJ


Cranberries

Jerry Dziedzic
 

I find that L&HR handled 250-400 cars per year of cranberries
originating on the New Haven in 1946-1950. This comes from L&HR
annual traffic reports.

It appears that these were fresh cranberries. One of the reports
explains that loadings were down that year because market conditions
resulted in berries being attracted to canning operations.

A major shipper named is American Cranberry Exchange, half or more of
the total. No location is given.

I assume that this traffic was seasonal, timed between harvest,
Thanksgiving, and Christmas.

Does anyone have more information? Was this handled in reefers?
Whose? What other connecting roads handled New Haven berries? How
much was the total of berry traffic?

May as well say a few things more and get them off my chest: I'm
looking forward to getting bogged (drum roll) down in detail. Thank
you, berry, berry much.


Jerry Dziedzic
Pattenburg, NJ


Re: Fruit Growers Express Reefers

Gwennyth Patrick
 

The Pennsylvania RR Museum in Strasburg apparently has one.. you can
see it in a large, zoomable panoramic image here:

http://gigapan.org/viewGigapan.php?id=1693

Also, one in Cleveland at the MRPS B&O Roundhouse
http://gwennyth42.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=765977


Re: Transporting Sheep In Open Top Cars

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Bob Chaparro wrote:
This may be the same kind of car, but it's not identical. The
caption reads "Load of sugar beets being dumped into a Southern
Pacific railroad car in Compton, 1910."
http://digarc.usc.edu/search/controller/asset/chs-m5675/CHS-12736

This is the car in my previous post:
http://www.sacramentohistory.org/admin/photo/935_1940.jpg
The same dumper is shown on page 164 of my Volume 1 on SP gondolas. These beet racks did have A-frame interiors.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Fruit Growers Express Reefers

Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Bruce Smith wrote:
Several FGE reefers have been preserved, including ones at the B&O RR
museum, the Southeastern Railway Museum outside Atlanta, and the
Cincinnati museum (in Ky).
Don't forget the very nice one (with interior) at CSRM.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
Also one at the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn, MI.

Dennis


Re: Transporting Sheep In Open Top Cars

Bob Chaparro <thecitrusbelt@...>
 

I ran across this image today and it made me think about my recent
post.

This is a link to a Southern Pacific photo in USC's digital archive
collection at: http://digarc.usc.edu/search/controller/index.htm .

This may be the same kind of car, but it's not identical. The
caption reads "Load of sugar beets being dumped into a Southern
Pacific railroad car in Compton, 1910."
http://digarc.usc.edu/search/controller/asset/chs-m5675/CHS-12736

This is the car in my previous post:
http://www.sacramentohistory.org/admin/photo/935_1940.jpg

Are they similar cars? The outside posts don't seem to be exactly
the same plus on the beet car they&#92; posts are pared because they are
actually door frames. The car hauling sheep does not have the top
mounted rods running the length of the car. But I don't know. Maybe
the sheep car is some kind of earlier beet car.

Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA

128361 - 128380 of 196875