Date   

Cocoa Beach Shake-Take Kitbash clinic.

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

Might I urge all of you who have taken part in Greg Martin's popular and very instructive freight car building clinic in Cocoa Beach both last year (EKSX Kahn's meat reefer), AND the year before (KCS USRA steel rebuild), to bring your completed, semi-completed, or just started models from those clinics to upcoming Cocoa Beach meet 3-6 January 2008 so everyone can admire and continue to learn.

It is amazing how much one learns just from seeing how others have tackled identical projects.

Mike Brock tells me that this year many, if not most of the display tables will be elevated 15-20" above standard table height this year, IMHO an absolute godsend.

Denny
--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento


Re: SCL Modeler Correspondent at Cocoa Beach

Captain Dudley
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, John Golden <golden1014@...> wrote:
John:
Terrific publication! I just checked out the latest issue on the
link. Happy Holidays to you and your family! and to all the guys on
the STMFC yahoo group!

Mike Dudley
Cincinnati OH
Gentlemen,

Is anyone willing to be a "correspondent" for the SCL
Modeler magazine at the upcoming 2008 Cocoa Beach
meet? We need a guy to take high-quality photos with
good composition, provide captions for each photo,
plus provide a few short paragraphs about the meet to
the magazine by 01 Mar 08. We'd like to run a "Cocoa
Beach 2008 RPM Report" similar to the RPM meet reports
found in previous SCL Modeler magazines or TKM.
Unfortunately there's no pay or incentives available.
If you're willing to help us out, please contact me
off line at Golden1014@... for details. Thanks,
and Merry Christmas!

John



John Golden
Bloomington, IN

http://www.pbase.com/golden1014
http://s-clmodeler.aclsal.org/currentissue/sclmodeler2007-2.pdf


Re: Cranberries

Mark Mathu
 

Greg Martin wrote:

But reading a bit on the industry it was fairly well spread
out into Wisconsin (served by likely BREX and NWX), Oregon
(the Bandon Dunes, Coos Bay area SP served) and Washington
State (likely served by WFEX, NP and MLW roads) to
distribute in their own markets.
No doubt NWX reefers were used for Wisconsin cranberries... I'm
looking for more specific information, but I believe that WRX (Western
Refrigerator Lines) reefers were also used for cranberries in
Wisconsin. WRX operated reefers for the GB&W.

Here are 1943 & 1953 versions of a directory of industries put out by
the GB&W, and there are ten shippers located in four towns along the
GB&W (Wisconsin Rapids, Biron, Walker & City Point, Wis.):
http://www.greenbayroute.com/industries.htm

Most of these were smaller shippers which trucked their cranberries --
most likely to the nearest team track, but Biron Cranberry Co. was a
large shipper with rail access on their property.

Wisconsin Rapids, Wis.
• Biron Cranberry Co. [located on the Soo Line]
• Wisconsin Cranberry Sales / American Cranberry Exchange

Biron, Wis.
• Biron Cranberry Co.
• Wisconsin Cranberry Sales / American Cranberry Exchange

Walker, Wis.
• Searles Cranberry Co.
• Wisconsin Cranberry Sales / American Cranberry Exchange

City Point, Wis.
• Bissig Brothers (probably off-track)
• Jepson
• Michalak and Smagacz (probably off-track)
• Ellis and Volz (located one block off-track)


Re: Cranberries

Mark Mathu
 

Jerry Dziedzic wrote:
A major shipper named is American Cranberry Exchange, half or more
of the total. No location is given.
American Cranberry Exchange was a cooperative marketing groups formed
in 1910 from several regional co-ops, and is a forerunner to Ocean
Spray. They shipped from many locations in several states.
__________
Mark Mathu
Whitefish Bay, Wis.


SCL Modeler Correspondent at Cocoa Beach

golden1014
 

Gentlemen,

Is anyone willing to be a "correspondent" for the SCL
Modeler magazine at the upcoming 2008 Cocoa Beach
meet? We need a guy to take high-quality photos with
good composition, provide captions for each photo,
plus provide a few short paragraphs about the meet to
the magazine by 01 Mar 08. We'd like to run a "Cocoa
Beach 2008 RPM Report" similar to the RPM meet reports
found in previous SCL Modeler magazines or TKM.
Unfortunately there's no pay or incentives available.
If you're willing to help us out, please contact me
off line at Golden1014@yahoo.com for details. Thanks,
and Merry Christmas!

John



John Golden
Bloomington, IN

http://www.pbase.com/golden1014
http://s-clmodeler.aclsal.org/currentissue/sclmodeler2007-2.pdf


Re: Marketing Agreements & Contracts (was: Cranberries)

John Hile <john66h@...>
 

In re-reading my previous post, I realized I may not have been very
clear about the points I was trying to make with my examples. Let me
apologize and try again...

During business as usual, the shipper and railroad(s)and/or car owner
would enter into a private contract based on the approved rates and
regulations. These types of records are likely lost to history.

If, however, one party sued another based on one of these contracts,
the court record may give us some additional information about "who
was doing what when" such as in the case of GATX v El Dorado.
Information about a private company's business and terms of a leasing
agreement become public.

Similarly, if a railroad or shipper requested and/or was granted a
rate change by the ICC, information that would typically be part of a
private contract is now made public through the ICC's ruling and
summary. Such is the case when reading the approved trainlot rates
granted by the ICC for the shipments of bauxite.

By themselves, these examples only give so much. But, combined with
other information, such as employee interviews, train consists, etc.,
they may complete someone's research puzzle.

John Hile



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, tgregmrtn@... wrote:


John,



Once a private?agreement or contract (commonly known as?a letter
quote)?became public it became a tarriff.

Greg Martin


-----Original Message-----
From: John Hile <john66h@...>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 6:31 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Marketing Agreements & Contracts (was: Cranberries)







--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, tgregmrtn@ wrote:


Marketing agreements and contract were private and protected from
the public.
Unless, of course, the agreement became public through litigation...
See: Tank Car Corp. v. El Dorado Terminal Co., 308 U.S. 422 (1940) at
http://supreme.justia.com/us/308/422/case.html

Or became subject to ICC regulation...
For example: the Freight Traffic Red Book has examples of special
multi-car (trainlot) rates applied for and approved on a case-by-case
basis...one being bauxite from Mobile, AL to Vancover, WA, effective
June 20,1940.

John Hile





________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com




Re: 1904 Library of Congress Film

RichBeau <RichBeau@...>
 

I knew you guys would find stuff I only stumble across in my haphazard
middle-of-the-holiday-rumble.

--Rich Beaubien
Bolton MA


Re: Cranberries

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Tony Thompson notes:

"You may have forgotten it, Mike, but the statistics are given in
the PFE book: only about 20 percent of westbound PFE cars were loaded.
Page 20: in 1940, it was 19.6 percent, but during the war with the
ODT-ordered car pooling, it rose to 45 percent. In 1947 it had fallen
back to 21 percent."

Fraley's trains had 16.4% loaded PFE reefers westbound. Of course, the number of loads might vary with the time of the yr and, of course, this sample is very small. Anyhow, it seems to be in the ball park.

Mike Brock


Re: 1904 Library of Congress Film

Charlie Vlk
 

This site is a treasure trove of pictures. Some of the links to trade publications are pretty good too. I did a search on "locomotive"
and was able to find a file of modern and historic photos of the CB&Q Aurora Shops. The High Res Tiff files are pretty good. Downloaded
them and opened them up in Corel Draw; was able to zoom in on individual freight cars and some very interesting Waycars.... including some
bobbers that predate anything we previously have known about. There is also a strange looking regular waycar; the shops did contract work
so it might not be CB&Q (nor the bobbers for that matter but they have a "Q" look to them.
Thanks for the link!
Charlie Vlk


Re: Marketing Agreements & Contracts (was: Cranberries)

Greg Martin
 

John,



Once a private?agreement or contract (commonly known as?a letter quote)?became public it became a tarriff.

Greg Martin

-----Original Message-----
From: John Hile <john66h@aol.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 6:31 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Marketing Agreements & Contracts (was: Cranberries)







--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, tgregmrtn@... wrote:


Marketing agreements and contract were private and protected from
the public.
Unless, of course, the agreement became public through litigation...
See: Tank Car Corp. v. El Dorado Terminal Co., 308 U.S. 422 (1940) at
http://supreme.justia.com/us/308/422/case.html

Or became subject to ICC regulation...
For example: the Freight Traffic Red Book has examples of special
multi-car (trainlot) rates applied for and approved on a case-by-case
basis...one being bauxite from Mobile, AL to Vancover, WA, effective
June 20,1940.

John Hile





________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com


Re: Cranberries

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Mike Brock wrote:
My point, of course, was not so much about cranberries...or the lack of them...but, rather, that by far the most common consist of PFE reefers returning to the West was...air.
You may have forgotten it, Mike, but the statistics are given in the PFE book: only about 20 percent of westbound PFE cars were loaded. Page 20: in 1940, it was 19.6 percent, but during the war with the ODT-ordered car pooling, it rose to 45 percent. In 1947 it had fallen back to 21 percent.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: 1904 Library of Congress Film

Scott Pitzer
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Kline" <lndkline@...> wrote:

The top level web page for these films is:
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/browse/ListSome.php?format=Motion+Picture
If you look on this page on the link to "McKinley, William..." and on
that linked page for
"Execution of Czolgosz, with panorama of Auburn Prison"
there are some fairly good views of freight cars passing the prison at
the start.

Scott Pitzer


westward reefers

ed_mines
 

I've always wondered why Erie and Lackawanna had their own small fleets
of leased reefers with so many empties leaving the New York city area.

I know Erie's cars were used for bannanas. There are probably more
models of the Erie reefer than there ever were of actual cars.

I have photographic proof of those Erie reefers - there's a nice clear
photo in a Bernice Abbott softcover book.

Ed


Re: Cranberries-Proof of the cranberries is in the eatin'

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

My point, of course, was not so much about cranberries...or the lack of them...but, rather, that by far the most common consist of PFE reefers returning to the West was...air.

It is interesting perhaps that non organic materiel seems to have been more common than organic going west. I'm also a bit surprised at the spuds going west. I should also note that the sample provided by the Fraley information is a very small sample but a real sample nontheless.

Mike Brock


Re: Cranberries-Proof of the cranberries is in the eatin'

Larry Jackman <Ljack70117@...>
 

Why not? My beautiful NYC Jewish wife served them all the time. The year around. One thing you can say for Jewish people is they know how to eat. MmmmmmGood
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@comcast.net
Boca Raton FL 33434
I want to die in my sleep like
my grandfather did, not screaming
like the other people in his car.

On Dec 21, 2007, at 1:39 PM, Anthony Thompson wrote:
. We don't have a cranberry in sight in March or April,
either. <g>

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history




Yahoo! Groups Links



Re: Cranberries-Proof of the cranberries is in the eatin'

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Mike Brock wrote:
Using the theory that the proof of the puddin' is in the eatin' I decided to take a look at the consists of PFE, SFRD and FGE reefers in about 17 WESTBOUND UP trains passing between Laramie and Green River, WY between March 16, 1949 and April 22, 1949. As the results show . . . Not a cranberry in sight.
Um, this is neither when the cranberries are harvested, nor (at least in my family) when they're eaten--think Thanksgiving and Christmas. We don't have a cranberry in sight in March or April, either. <g>

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: 1904 Library of Congress Film

Larry Kline
 

The top level web page for these films is:
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/browse/ListSome.php?format=Motion+Picture

There are 20 films for Westinghouse and Westinghouse Air Brake
and many more listed under other topics.

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Kurt Laughlin" <fleeta@...> wrote:

Note the corrected link below. . .

That's the East Pittsburg(h) Works in East Pittsburgh/Turtle Creek. The
camera was running on the PRR.

KL
.
----- Original Message -----
From: RichBeau
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 8:43 AM
Subject: [STMFC] 1904 Library of Congress Film


Stumbled across this 2-part 1904 video in the Library of Congress of
the Westinghouse Works in Western PA. There's a couple of interesting
things about this; 1) it's taken from somewhere on a moving train, and
2) if you pay attention there's some great views turn-of-the-century
freight cars.

http://memory.loc.gov/mbrs/westhpp/2237s1.mpg

http://memory.loc.gov/mbrs/westhpp/2237s2.mpg

Enjoy!
--Rich Beaubien
Bolton MA


For Sale HO scale Intermountain, Red Caboose, and IMWX

ogdentowebercanyon
 

I have posted some for sale items on trainorders at the link below.
You do not need a membership to view. Lots of Intermountain, Red
Caboose, IMWX. All steam era of course. PRR, UP, CNW, SP, CN, C&),
etc...


http://www.trainorders.com/classifieds/view.php?1709



Thanks,
Jason


Re: Cranberries-Proof of the cranberries is in the eatin'

Tom Madden <tgmadden@...>
 

Mike Brock wrote:

Using the theory that the proof of the puddin' is in the eatin' I
decided to take a look at the consists of PFE, SFRD and FGE reefers
in about 17 WESTBOUND UP trains passing between Laramie and Green
River, WY between March 16, 1949 and April 22, 1949.
[snip]

I'm assuming gware is glass ware but I have no idea what mchy is.
Machinery??

Tom Madden


Re: Cranberries

Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
 

Posted by: "John Hile" I did, however, upload a pdf scan to the STMFC file area of Rule 36 from Tariff 13 (file name: P P Tariff 13 Rule 36) which gives the general rules for furnishing refrigerator cars. Part 2 of the rule deals specifically with SFRD and PFE served railroads and their ability to refuse to furnish for loading, or accept in interchange, private cars which are to be used at or are bound for a specifically defined western territory (see Part 2 Section C) with other than perishable cargo. Meat reefers are OK, as are private cars with perishable freight requiring protection.

This seems to imply that when these rules were followed (assuming no special agreements are made between car owners or other AAR arrangements) if you saw a private reefer other than a PFE or SFRD car on the west coast, it would have come there hauling a perishible cargo. It also seems to imply that the car would not be loaded for an intra-area load, or for a perishable load heading east which would be loaded within the protected area.

I would appreciate others reading this rule and letting me know if my
interpretation is correct.
==================

From a legal point of view, there is a problem with that interpretation. Every railroad had a common carrier obligation to accept in interchange any load tendered to the origin road on a legal bill of lading, routed via the receiving road and loaded in accordance with applicable AAR rules for the type of load. You couldn't refuse a load because it was a particular car type or mark carrying a wrong commodity.

When short of box cars, it was not unusual for eastern roads to use PFE and other reefers for forwarder traffic to the west coast. I saw that done on the NYC on the west side.

I wonder if that language that John refers to was more pertinent to acceptance of empty private line cars in interchange. BTW the fact that a rule existed didn't necessarily mean that it was enforceable or that penalties, if any, were sufficient to dissuade a railroad from misusing a car in order to avoid loss of revenue..


Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478

124141 - 124160 of 192690