Date   

Re: Coal Hoppers on the M&StL

Douglas Harding <dharding@...>
 

Thanks to Ben, Bob and Bob. We have a definate answer, and photos. This will
give Clark and I something to chew on at Cocoa Beach. By the way arrived in
Florida late Wed. night, was 39 degrees when I landed, so don't feel too
sorry for us.

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org

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11:29 AM


Pink Blush Weathering

asychis@...
 

In a message dated 1/3/2008 5:06:02 A.M. Central Standard Time,
STMFC@... writes:

Anyone know of situations that led to pink blush coloured weathering on a
freight car?

Well, not a freight car per se, but anyone who saw Magor-type C&EI cabooses
in the late 1970s on the MoPac after the merger would have a good case for
red paint weathering to pink.

Jerry Michels






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Re: giving a face lift

Todd Stearns <toddsyr@...>
 

Okay, looks like I stand corrected. It used to be illegal though, except of course with a medical need. I just wanted to warn folks because I didn't want anyone getting into trouble. By the way, the "dirty needle" problem is caused by drug addicts, not dumb laws. Though NY does have it's share of both.

Todd K. Stearns


hypodermic needles

ed_mines
 

I used to use 'em a lot in work. We didn't need pointy ones, but
they're much cheaper (<$20/case of 100) than the ones cut flush.

They're really nasty bastards to have around. Even with the protective
tips you get stuck a lot.

Can the average Joe get a small piece of piano wire less than 15 mils?

Ed


Re: giving a face lift

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

----- Original Message -----

Todd Stearns wrote:
Just a note. I'm pretty sure possession of a hypodermic needle in NY
state by non-medical personnel is a felony.
I doubt it. Many diabetics and others have to give themselves
injections. But it might require a prescription. Either way, it's a
dumb law--that's what's caused all the "dirty needle" problems with
addicts.


Re: giving a face lift

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Todd Stearns wrote:
Just a note. I'm pretty sure possession of a hypodermic needle in NY state by non-medical personnel is a felony.
I doubt it. Many diabetics and others have to give themselves injections. But it might require a prescription. Either way, it's a dumb law--that's what's caused all the "dirty needle" problems with addicts.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: giving a face lift

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Not . . . . .necessarily. Many states changed that law to cater to the druggies, and help keep
hepatitis and AIDS transmission down, and it has helped. But that should be checked. IIRC, you can
buy them in CVS here in Massachusetts.


SGL

-----Original Message-----

Just a note. I'm pretty sure possession of a hypodermic needle in NY state by non-medical
personnel is a felony.

Todd K. Stearns


Re: giving a face lift

Todd Stearns <toddsyr@...>
 

Just a note. I'm pretty sure possession of a hypodermic needle in NY state by non-medical personnel is a felony.

Todd K. Stearns


Re: Coal Hoppers on the M&StL

rwitt_2000 <rmwitt@...>
 

Bob Karig wrote:

I agree with Ben's assessment and have sent you a scan of a builders
photo
of one of these cars built by Standard Steel, which I got from Keith
Retterer.
I also agree with Ben's reply.

Here is another photo more clearly showing the end with its three
braces.

http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/ccc&stl-73700.jpg

Bob Witt


Re: Time Periods for Different Truck Types

Rich Yoder
 

FYI,
IN "O" scale 5 out of 6 truck styles I have built have spring
planks.
Rich Yoder
7 Edgedale Court
Wyomissing PA 19610-1913
610-678-2834 after 6:00PM est until 10:00PM
www.richyodermodels.com

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Dennis Storzek
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 2:09 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Time Periods for Different Truck Types

--- In STMFC@..., "Tony Higgins" <earthman92853@...> wrote:

...What is
a spring plank and what was it's purpose? From your response below,
it seems somehow related to bolster/sideframe alignment and lateral
stability? I can understand why this was a concern but how did spring
planks address it? Can you please elaborate?

Thanks,
Tony Higgins
The spring plank is/was a channel section that runs between the bottom
of the side frames, each end located directly under the spring seats.
These were sometimes made from structural channel, sometimes from a
steel pressing, and were originally a wooden plank, thus the name.

In the old time swing motion trucks this plank actually hung free of
the truck frame and held the springs the bolster was supported by.
When swing motion freightcar trucks fell out of favor (too much
complexity, too many wear points) the spring plank was retained with
so called rigid frame trucks, which is what almost all cast sideframe
freight trucks are. The purpose for retaining the spring plank was to
keep the bottoms of the sideframes in line. However, improvements to
the form and fit of the gibs that hold the bolster in the sideframes
made the spring plank unnecessary, and the use was dropped shortly
before WWII again to reduce weight and complexity.

Most one piece model trucks don't attempt to model the spring plank
between the sideframes, due to the complexity it would cause to the
part. Typically, only the ends are modeled where they show under the
springs on the outside of the sideframe; both the Accurail
"Bettendorf" and Andrews trucks have this detail. One could, of
course, fit the spring plank between the sideframes, but then getting
to the truck screw would be problematic.

Dennis





Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Hypodermic needle drills???

Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Tom Madden" <tgmadden@...> wrote:

Philip Dove wrote:
New Hypodermic needles for drilling plastic...
Whoa! Let's hear more about this. Are we talking about sharply pointed
needles with the hole in the side of the tapered tip, or ones that
aren't tapered and the hole is in the end? I've used the latter for
drawing liquid samples for analysis, but they've tended to be larger
sizes. And do you spin, or just push the needle through the material?

Tom,

Side, spun.

Actually, piano wire is way cheaper. Just cut it on the diagonal with
a cut-off wheel, then grind on a long flat point. It's an easy way to
make a bastard single lip cutter, but they work fine in soft materials
like styrene and resin.

The real way to make a single lip cutter would be to grind the end to
a cone, the grind half the diameter away. In reality, the conical
point should also have a slight spiral to provide relief for the
single cutting edge, but in soft material it doesn't really make any
difference.

The wire with diagonal points work great in variable speed motor
tools, but cut a bit slowly to use with a hand pin vise. What actually
happens is the point starts scraping away at the material around the
dimple, or pin prick used as a starting mark. As the point goes down,
the cylindrical side of the wire forces the point over, so that when
the full surface of the wire is in the material, it's centered on the
spot the point first entered. Of course, when the full depth of the
point is in the work, there is no longer anyplace for the chips (in
this case scrapings) to go, but typically by this time the point is
coming through the other side of the material, so it doesn't make much
difference. These are not for really deep holes. The only thing to
watch is that the speed of the drill doesn't melt the surrounding plastic.

Dennis


Hypodermic needle drills???

Tom Madden <tgmadden@...>
 

Philip Dove wrote:

I went to an NMRA clinic in St Louis or Kansas city, where IIRC
Leslie was doing a clinic on weathering brick structures with makeup,
the results were extremely good,...
[Snip]
...many of the tips she gave were very good, they including using
New Hypodermic needles for drilling plastic...
Whoa! Let's hear more about this. Are we talking about sharply pointed
needles with the hole in the side of the tapered tip, or ones that
aren't tapered and the hole is in the end? I've used the latter for
drawing liquid samples for analysis, but they've tended to be larger
sizes. And do you spin, or just push the needle through the material?

You learn something new every day. Sometimes two things. I never
thought much about spring planks, now I know what they are. Then this
needle thing.....

Tom Madden


Re: Time Periods for Different Truck Types

Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Tony Higgins" <earthman92853@...> wrote:

...What is
a spring plank and what was it's purpose? From your response below,
it seems somehow related to bolster/sideframe alignment and lateral
stability? I can understand why this was a concern but how did spring
planks address it? Can you please elaborate?

Thanks,
Tony Higgins
The spring plank is/was a channel section that runs between the bottom
of the side frames, each end located directly under the spring seats.
These were sometimes made from structural channel, sometimes from a
steel pressing, and were originally a wooden plank, thus the name.

In the old time swing motion trucks this plank actually hung free of
the truck frame and held the springs the bolster was supported by.
When swing motion freightcar trucks fell out of favor (too much
complexity, too many wear points) the spring plank was retained with
so called rigid frame trucks, which is what almost all cast sideframe
freight trucks are. The purpose for retaining the spring plank was to
keep the bottoms of the sideframes in line. However, improvements to
the form and fit of the gibs that hold the bolster in the sideframes
made the spring plank unnecessary, and the use was dropped shortly
before WWII again to reduce weight and complexity.

Most one piece model trucks don't attempt to model the spring plank
between the sideframes, due to the complexity it would cause to the
part. Typically, only the ends are modeled where they show under the
springs on the outside of the sideframe; both the Accurail
"Bettendorf" and Andrews trucks have this detail. One could, of
course, fit the spring plank between the sideframes, but then getting
to the truck screw would be problematic.

Dennis


Re: Time Periods for Different Truck Types

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tony Higgins wrote:
I have the RPCYC issue with your article and have studied the pictures and text but I'm still not sure what is meant by the term "spring plankless". What is a spring plank and what was it's purpose? From your response below, it seems somehow related to bolster/sideframe alignment and lateral stability? I can understand why this was a concern but how did spring planks address it? Can you please elaborate?
Tony, Richard is on his way to Cocoa Beach today and won't be replying, but I'll see if I can help. The spring plank was under the springs and ran across between the two sideframes, providing a second transverse connection in addition to the bolster. You can imagine how this helped keep the truck "square" -- and originally it really was a wooden plank. They became steel channels early in the 20th century.
When well-designed and machined sideframe-bolster connections came into use, constraining the sideframe movement to a vertical plane, the spring plank was no longer needed and could be dispensed with.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: giving a face lift

Philip Dove <philip.dove@...>
 

I went to an NMRA clinic in St Louis or Kansas city, where IIRC Leslie was doing a clinic on weathering brick structures with makeup, the results were extremely good, and very convincing. The great advantage of makeup is that it's meant to stay in place, once you've put a smear or slight dusting on. many of the tips she gave were very good, they including using New Hypodermic needles for drilling plastic, ( a darned sight cheaper than small drills) and all the bits about using makeup and it's accoutrements for model making. I find British cosmetics all appear to be too bright or just the wrong colour. Anyone know of situations that led to pink blush coloured weathering on a freight car?
Regards Philip Dove

----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Sandifer
To: STMFC@...
Sent: 01 January 2008 02:02
Subject: Re: [STMFC] giving a face lift


I talked to Leslie Eaton today to clarify her methods. She is a very gifted modeler.

Her choice of cosmetic for weathering is MAC. http://www.maccosmetics.com
She reports that they are highly pigmented, have no glitter, and are extremely stable. You can put a clear seal over them without the effect changing. However, she says she has cars that have been handled in numerous train shows over the past few years that have not had smearing or the weathering wear off.

These are high quality = high cost. But a little goes a long way and lasts forever. In Houston MAC has two dedicated stores and are sold at places like Macy's, Nordstrom, and Saks Fifth Avenue.

Here are her color suggestions:

Face Powder Blush:
a.. Raizin - rust
b.. Coppertone - lighter rust, often used together with Raizin
Eye Shadow
a.. Charcoal brown - mud spatter, such as 1' on the walls around the base of a building, general weathering
b.. Omega - general brown, lighter than charcoal brown, light dirt
c.. Bisque - lighter still, ballast dust on the lower portion of railcars
d.. Brun - very dark brown/black, oily look, for oil on a concrete floor, dark oily areas on locomotives, tire skid marks
e.. Carbon - matte black
f.. Scene - gray
g.. Greystone - bluish gray, soot from steam locos.

______________
J. Stephen (Steve) Sandifer
mailto:steve.sandifer@...
Home: 12027 Mulholland Drive, Meadows Place, TX 77477, 281-568-9918
Office: Southwest Central Church of Christ, 4011 W. Bellfort, Houston, TX 77025, 713-667-9417

----- Original Message -----
From: Clark Propst
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 9:35 AM
Subject: [STMFC] giving a face lift

I was 'shopping' with my wife yesterday and we spent some time in the make up section. While my wife was looking for whatever I noticed a lot of different colored chalks and powers. Has anyone tried these products on their models? You never read about this type of weathering....maybe it's just not manly?
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Re: Time Periods for Different Truck Types

Bob Karig <karig@...>
 

The spring plank was used to hold the two side frames together. It ran between the two side frames beneath the bolster. The springs sat on the spring plank and the bolster sat on top of the springs. The bolster rode up and down on the springs and was held in place by the column guides.

With spring plankless trucks, the spring plank was removed and the column guide/bolster interface was designed to hold the trucks in alignment in much the same way that scale trucks are held in alignment.

One of the problems with the spring plank was that it held the two side frames too rigidly together. The twisting stress on the truck as it entered turns caused the joint to loosen and allow the trucks to move out of alignment. With the spring plankless/self aligning truck, the truck was allowed to flex going into a turn and return to its normal alignment on straight track.

Bob Karig

At 01:27 PM 1/2/2008, you wrote:
--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
wrote:
Richard,
Thanks for your typically thorough answer. I have the RPCYC issue
with your article and have studied the pictures and text but I'm
still not sure what is meant by the term "spring plankless". What is
a spring plank and what was it's purpose? From your response below,
it seems somehow related to bolster/sideframe alignment and lateral
stability? I can understand why this was a concern but how did spring
planks address it? Can you please elaborate?

Thanks,
Tony Higgins


Re: Time Periods for Different Truck Types

Brian Leppert <b.leppert@...>
 

I think there was a typo in Richard's response.

--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
wrote:

Dalman two-level trucks were widely used in the mid-to-late 1920s,
and
the Dalman one-level truck enjoyed some brief popularity in the early
1920s.
The Dalman one-level truck actually succeeded the two-level design
(which wasn't called a two-level until the introduction of the one-
level).
Production dates for the Dalman one-level truck, that I know of,
covered 1929 to 1931.

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV


Re: Time Periods for Different Truck Types

Tony Higgins
 

--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
wrote:
Richard,
Thanks for your typically thorough answer. I have the RPCYC issue
with your article and have studied the pictures and text but I'm
still not sure what is meant by the term "spring plankless". What is
a spring plank and what was it's purpose? From your response below,
it seems somehow related to bolster/sideframe alignment and lateral
stability? I can understand why this was a concern but how did spring
planks address it? Can you please elaborate?

Thanks,
Tony Higgins


<<snip>>
In the early 1930s all of the truck manufacturers combined forces
to
improve on the basic ARA design, and what resulted was a self-
aligning
spring-plankless design which, though similar in appearance,
rapidly
began to replace ARA trucks with spring planks (some of the latter
continued to be made through the 1940s, however). Most of the
(incorrectly) so-called Bettendorf trucks in HO scale actually
represent self-aligning spring-plankless ARA-type trucks. Another
improvement for added strength was the double truss side frame in
which
the lower chords, instead of being U-section, were boxed in and had
a
shallow strengthening rib extending down onto the spring seat.

Hope this helps.

Richard Hendrickson


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


tank car help

up4479
 

Hello.
Here is a link to a brass HO model of a 2 dome, welded tank car by
Sugiyama models. Does anybody have a reference to photos of the
prototype? I think it is a North American prototype. It is not the
same as the similar Overland Models car. I'd like to paint the model.
Thanks.
http://tinyurl.com/3xznmr
Steve Solombrino


Re: Coal Hoppers on the M&StL

Bob Karig <karig@...>
 

I agree with Ben's assessment and have sent you a scan of a builders photo of one of these cars built by Standard Steel, which I got from Keith Retterer.

Regarding the side post gussett, it's been my observation that these often varied in cars produced to the same design by different manufacturers. I have been unable to account for the differences.

Regarding the heavier top chord/side rail, many early cars had their top chord/side rails reinforced with heavier angle during their lives. Good examples include the B&O's N-10 and the PRR's H21 cited by Ben.

Bob Karig

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