Date   

Re: Safety Appliance question

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

Tom - I think there are people on this list who have a more definite answer,
but I was under the assumption that a car with a wood roof didn't need the
cross-walks (excuse me, cross running boards). - John

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Gloger" <tomgloger@yahoo.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 12:50 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Safety Appliance question


At what time did the roofwalk extensions (the ones on the
right as you approach the end of the car) become mandatory?
The Cyc at home (1923, I think) shows them on box cars but
not on stock cars. Maybe my MDC 36' cars aren't authentic,
but I'd at least like them legal for 1938.

- Tom "fresh meat" Gloger e-mail: mailto:tomgloger@yahoo.com
web page: http://pws.prserv.net/usinet.tgloger


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Train-Miniature guide

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

I've been focusing my attention on current kits
(http://www.union.rpi.edu/railroad/images/rolling-stock/Kits/Kit-Guide.html)
, but the recent discussion about the Hills Bros. Train-Miniature box car
made me realize that there is a need to post information about each of these
variations. Some people have the cars, and this might influence what they
do with them, plus they show up in train shows. And as the discussion about
the Mobilgas tank car scheme used by Mantua, the existance of these schemes
on kits no longer in production lingers on, including any inaccuracies. So
to start with, I'm going to be looking for kit numbers and information about
schemes. I do have all the old magazines where these are advertised, but
any kit you bring to our attention will get priority.
- John


Safety Appliance question

Tom Gloger
 

At what time did the roofwalk extensions (the ones on the
right as you approach the end of the car) become mandatory?
The Cyc at home (1923, I think) shows them on box cars but
not on stock cars. Maybe my MDC 36' cars aren't authentic,
but I'd at least like them legal for 1938.

- Tom "fresh meat" Gloger e-mail: mailto:tomgloger@yahoo.com
web page: http://pws.prserv.net/usinet.tgloger


__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices! http://auctions.yahoo.com/


Re: Hills Brothers Coffee Car

Richard Hendrickson
 

Grath Groff wrote:

A partial view of one of the Hills Brothers' cars can be seen at:

http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/FindingAids/dynaweb/calher/strike/figures/I0015605A
.jpg

It is the car on the extreme left. I am not sure of the exact location,
but it appears that this might be on the State Belt Railroad/San
Francisco Belt Railroad at their interchange with the SP. The rock
bunker to the rear was served by the SBR, and often figures prominently
in a number of surviving photos. Hills Brothers had a large roasting and
packaging factory in that area, but it was a few blocks inland from the
docks. Might these two cars have been used to shuttle bagged coffee
beans from ships to the roasting plant?
That would certainly account for the fact that the weight stenciling on the
cars was never updated. If they were in captive shuttle service on the
SBR, it wouldn't have been necessary to keep the light weight and load
limit current. I wonder what happened to the two Hills Bros. cars when
they disappeared from the ORERs in the late 1930s? They may have just
decided to stop listing them, since they never went off-line.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: Hills Brothers Coffee Car - 3M

Ed Workman <eworkman@...>
 

From: Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@virginia.edu>
.

As for the 3M boxcars, they were for real, though for what I'm not sure.
I have a picture in my collection of a whole flock of them off their
trucks in the 1950s. I never noticed the roof hatches before.

3M had an operation near COrona, CA. The ATSF Elsinore branch from Porphyry
on the 3rd District had clay mines and plants which fired it into bricks and
drain pipes and?????? Several bodies ended up on the ground north of the
UP main line to the northeast, in the vicinity of Pedley


Re: Hills Brothers Coffee Car - 3M

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

John,

Thanks for the stuff on Hills Brothers. I had the pleasure of touring
the factory in the 1960s. My girlfriend and I were more interested in
using the factory as a set for a MAN FROM UNCLE adventure. All those
conveyor belts and chutes would have made for great fight scenes.

As for the 3M boxcars, they were for real, though for what I'm not sure.
I have a picture in my collection of a whole flock of them off their
trucks in the 1950s. I never noticed the roof hatches before.

Kind regards,


John Nehrich wrote:


FYI - According to Symbols Of America, Austin and Reuben Hill moved from
Maine to San Francisco in 1873. In 1882, the two brothers bought a
specialty grocery store (Arabian Coffee & Spice Mills) where they sold tea,
spices and the coffee that they roasted. Since at least 1897, the figure of
a turbaned figure in a nightgown and slippers sipping coffee has been used
as a trademark. (Maybe he was trying to awake from one of those Arabian
nights!)
- John
PS - The T-M wood car, in addition to the gross door claws "Irv was here!",
has a protruding side sill along the bottom - apparently the result of a
mixup in cutting the dies. It can be cut off and replaced with styrene,
although not for this car as Richard has pointed out. I also think the T-M
wood reefer as a better starting point for wood box cars, as it has wood
sheathing that extends down further and has no oversized door tracks to deal
with. There is one thing that the box car can be useful for - with the door
opening and the way the battens line up, you can cut out a chunk and make a
slightly oversized 36 foot box car, somewhat like the 1910 class of Central
cars which had the side sill exposed. (Not that I'm recommending this as
the best way to achieve such end products, it is just an interesting
challenge to make something useful out of these kits.)
Speaking of wood box cars, I came across an uncredited photo of a 3M box
car, also done by T-M. It was closer in dimensions to such a car, but the
car had roof hatches and I can't see where they were placed.
- John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Garth G. Groff" <ggg9y@virginia.edu>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 8:25 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Hills Brothers Coffee Car

Nick and friends,

A partial view of one of the Hills Brothers' cars can be seen at:


http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/FindingAids/dynaweb/calher/strike/figures/I00156
05A.jpg

It is the car on the extreme left. I am not sure of the exact location,
but it appears that this might be on the State Belt Railroad/San
Francisco Belt Railroad at their interchange with the SP. The rock
bunker to the rear was served by the SBR, and often figures prominently
in a number of surviving photos. Hills Brothers had a large roasting and
packaging factory in that area, but it was a few blocks inland from the
docks. Might these two cars have been used to shuttle bagged coffee
beans from ships to the roasting plant?

The above photo is part of the California Digital Archive collection. It
was taken during the 1934 Longshoremen's Strike. More photos, including
freight cars and locomotives, can be seen by browsing this collection
beginning at:

http://www.oac.cdlib.org:80/dynaweb/ead/calher/strike/@Generic__BookView;cs=
default;ts=default

In general, the CDC has some very interesting train photos. You might
also look at the section on building the Oakland Bay Bridge. It has some
SP stuff. There is also a section on the Bully Hill Mines and their
Sacramento Valley & Eastern, plus more miscellaneous railroad subjects
in other files.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Nick Gray wrote:

Damn shame,

I guess this one gets added to my (2 year old) daughters collection. I
would still like a scan of the photo to see what the cars actually
looked like

Thanks for the answer!

At 09:16 PM 2/22/2001 -0800, you wrote:
I know I am going to regret this and will probably end up tossing it
in my
pile of things that I chop up and use for other projects. But I
couldn't
resist it.

The car is a Train-Miniature Hills Brothers Coffee Car, HBCX #161.
Other
data indicates Blt 3-30 and N&W 3-32 I think. There is no date on the
box
or instructions but it appears to be 20-30 years old.


First question is on authenticity. I recalled seeing that Micro-
trains had
one of these in n-scale. I would guess there must be some basis for
this
car. Does anyone have any information they would like to share?

Second question is on Viability of the project. So far the only
things
obviously other worth saving are the large decal, the rather decent
paint
and the body structure. Does someone make a decal out there. If I
want this
car as a detailing/rebuild project. Would it be better to start over
from
scratch?
Uh, Nick, are you sure you want to go there? For some obscure reason,
Hills Brothers of San Francisco owned two box cars numbered 161 and 162
which were stenciled that they were built in 1930 but look like they
were
built earlier (so 1930 may have been a rebuilding date). They lasted
less
than ten years and were gone from the 1/40 ORER. In my 1933 ORER,
their
reporting marks were HBKX, but later they were apparently changed to
HBCX.
Ca. 1937 Will Whittaker photographed HBCX 161 on the San Francisco
waterfront, and your model is probably based on that photo. I have a
print
of the photo and could send you a scan, but -

(1) These cars could not have operated in interchange, and probably
were
just used for short hauls around San Francisco, as the car in the photo
had
not been reweighed since 3-30, and -

(2) The T-M model can't really be converted into an accurate replica of
the
prototype because, aside from numerous other problems, the Hills Bros.
cars
were 9'8" IH, thus considerably taller than the T-M model.

FWIW, the prototype cars were double wood sheathed with wood body
framing
and had 4-4 inverse Dreadnaught ends, metal sheathed roofs with flat
seam
battens, wood doors, fishbelly steel center sills, and ARA trucks with
spring planks and Barber lateral motion devices.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520



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Re: Hills Brothers Coffee Car - 3M

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

FYI - According to Symbols Of America, Austin and Reuben Hill moved from
Maine to San Francisco in 1873. In 1882, the two brothers bought a
specialty grocery store (Arabian Coffee & Spice Mills) where they sold tea,
spices and the coffee that they roasted. Since at least 1897, the figure of
a turbaned figure in a nightgown and slippers sipping coffee has been used
as a trademark. (Maybe he was trying to awake from one of those Arabian
nights!)
- John
PS - The T-M wood car, in addition to the gross door claws "Irv was here!",
has a protruding side sill along the bottom - apparently the result of a
mixup in cutting the dies. It can be cut off and replaced with styrene,
although not for this car as Richard has pointed out. I also think the T-M
wood reefer as a better starting point for wood box cars, as it has wood
sheathing that extends down further and has no oversized door tracks to deal
with. There is one thing that the box car can be useful for - with the door
opening and the way the battens line up, you can cut out a chunk and make a
slightly oversized 36 foot box car, somewhat like the 1910 class of Central
cars which had the side sill exposed. (Not that I'm recommending this as
the best way to achieve such end products, it is just an interesting
challenge to make something useful out of these kits.)
Speaking of wood box cars, I came across an uncredited photo of a 3M box
car, also done by T-M. It was closer in dimensions to such a car, but the
car had roof hatches and I can't see where they were placed.
- John

----- Original Message -----
From: "Garth G. Groff" <ggg9y@virginia.edu>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 8:25 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Hills Brothers Coffee Car


Nick and friends,

A partial view of one of the Hills Brothers' cars can be seen at:


http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/FindingAids/dynaweb/calher/strike/figures/I00156
05A.jpg

It is the car on the extreme left. I am not sure of the exact location,
but it appears that this might be on the State Belt Railroad/San
Francisco Belt Railroad at their interchange with the SP. The rock
bunker to the rear was served by the SBR, and often figures prominently
in a number of surviving photos. Hills Brothers had a large roasting and
packaging factory in that area, but it was a few blocks inland from the
docks. Might these two cars have been used to shuttle bagged coffee
beans from ships to the roasting plant?

The above photo is part of the California Digital Archive collection. It
was taken during the 1934 Longshoremen's Strike. More photos, including
freight cars and locomotives, can be seen by browsing this collection
beginning at:

http://www.oac.cdlib.org:80/dynaweb/ead/calher/strike/@Generic__BookView;cs=
default;ts=default

In general, the CDC has some very interesting train photos. You might
also look at the section on building the Oakland Bay Bridge. It has some
SP stuff. There is also a section on the Bully Hill Mines and their
Sacramento Valley & Eastern, plus more miscellaneous railroad subjects
in other files.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Nick Gray wrote:

Damn shame,

I guess this one gets added to my (2 year old) daughters collection. I
would still like a scan of the photo to see what the cars actually
looked like

Thanks for the answer!

At 09:16 PM 2/22/2001 -0800, you wrote:
I know I am going to regret this and will probably end up tossing it
in my
pile of things that I chop up and use for other projects. But I
couldn't
resist it.

The car is a Train-Miniature Hills Brothers Coffee Car, HBCX #161.
Other
data indicates Blt 3-30 and N&W 3-32 I think. There is no date on the
box
or instructions but it appears to be 20-30 years old.


First question is on authenticity. I recalled seeing that Micro-
trains had
one of these in n-scale. I would guess there must be some basis for
this
car. Does anyone have any information they would like to share?

Second question is on Viability of the project. So far the only
things
obviously other worth saving are the large decal, the rather decent
paint
and the body structure. Does someone make a decal out there. If I
want this
car as a detailing/rebuild project. Would it be better to start over
from
scratch?
Uh, Nick, are you sure you want to go there? For some obscure reason,
Hills Brothers of San Francisco owned two box cars numbered 161 and 162
which were stenciled that they were built in 1930 but look like they
were
built earlier (so 1930 may have been a rebuilding date). They lasted
less
than ten years and were gone from the 1/40 ORER. In my 1933 ORER,
their
reporting marks were HBKX, but later they were apparently changed to
HBCX.
Ca. 1937 Will Whittaker photographed HBCX 161 on the San Francisco
waterfront, and your model is probably based on that photo. I have a
print
of the photo and could send you a scan, but -

(1) These cars could not have operated in interchange, and probably
were
just used for short hauls around San Francisco, as the car in the photo
had
not been reweighed since 3-30, and -

(2) The T-M model can't really be converted into an accurate replica of
the
prototype because, aside from numerous other problems, the Hills Bros.
cars
were 9'8" IH, thus considerably taller than the T-M model.

FWIW, the prototype cars were double wood sheathed with wood body
framing
and had 4-4 inverse Dreadnaught ends, metal sheathed roofs with flat
seam
battens, wood doors, fishbelly steel center sills, and ARA trucks with
spring planks and Barber lateral motion devices.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520



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Fw: USRA Side Dump Hoppers

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

FYI - John

----- Original Message -----
From: <RnBHessing@aol.com>
To: <nehrij@rpi.edu>
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 10:00 PM
Subject: Re: USRA Side Dump Hoppers


John,

The NYS&W cars were used in revenue service all the time and I know for a
fact that the NYS&W cars went off line. (If they were used exclusively
for
ballast, what the hell did the NYS&W need 500 of them for???) As for
travel
off line, there is a photo of one of the NYS&W cars on a coal trestle in a
book on the Clarendon & Pitsford.

Ray


Re: Hills Brothers Coffee Car

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Nick and friends,

A partial view of one of the Hills Brothers' cars can be seen at:


http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/FindingAids/dynaweb/calher/strike/figures/I0015605A.jpg

It is the car on the extreme left. I am not sure of the exact location,
but it appears that this might be on the State Belt Railroad/San
Francisco Belt Railroad at their interchange with the SP. The rock
bunker to the rear was served by the SBR, and often figures prominently
in a number of surviving photos. Hills Brothers had a large roasting and
packaging factory in that area, but it was a few blocks inland from the
docks. Might these two cars have been used to shuttle bagged coffee
beans from ships to the roasting plant?

The above photo is part of the California Digital Archive collection. It
was taken during the 1934 Longshoremen's Strike. More photos, including
freight cars and locomotives, can be seen by browsing this collection
beginning at:

http://www.oac.cdlib.org:80/dynaweb/ead/calher/strike/@Generic__BookView;cs=default;ts=default

In general, the CDC has some very interesting train photos. You might
also look at the section on building the Oakland Bay Bridge. It has some
SP stuff. There is also a section on the Bully Hill Mines and their
Sacramento Valley & Eastern, plus more miscellaneous railroad subjects
in other files.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Nick Gray wrote:


Damn shame,

I guess this one gets added to my (2 year old) daughters collection. I
would still like a scan of the photo to see what the cars actually looked like

Thanks for the answer!

At 09:16 PM 2/22/2001 -0800, you wrote:
I know I am going to regret this and will probably end up tossing it in my
pile of things that I chop up and use for other projects. But I couldn't
resist it.

The car is a Train-Miniature Hills Brothers Coffee Car, HBCX #161. Other
data indicates Blt 3-30 and N&W 3-32 I think. There is no date on the box
or instructions but it appears to be 20-30 years old.


First question is on authenticity. I recalled seeing that Micro- trains had
one of these in n-scale. I would guess there must be some basis for this
car. Does anyone have any information they would like to share?

Second question is on Viability of the project. So far the only things
obviously other worth saving are the large decal, the rather decent paint
and the body structure. Does someone make a decal out there. If I want this
car as a detailing/rebuild project. Would it be better to start over from
scratch?
Uh, Nick, are you sure you want to go there? For some obscure reason,
Hills Brothers of San Francisco owned two box cars numbered 161 and 162
which were stenciled that they were built in 1930 but look like they were
built earlier (so 1930 may have been a rebuilding date). They lasted less
than ten years and were gone from the 1/40 ORER. In my 1933 ORER, their
reporting marks were HBKX, but later they were apparently changed to HBCX.
Ca. 1937 Will Whittaker photographed HBCX 161 on the San Francisco
waterfront, and your model is probably based on that photo. I have a print
of the photo and could send you a scan, but -

(1) These cars could not have operated in interchange, and probably were
just used for short hauls around San Francisco, as the car in the photo had
not been reweighed since 3-30, and -

(2) The T-M model can't really be converted into an accurate replica of the
prototype because, aside from numerous other problems, the Hills Bros. cars
were 9'8" IH, thus considerably taller than the T-M model.

FWIW, the prototype cars were double wood sheathed with wood body framing
and had 4-4 inverse Dreadnaught ends, metal sheathed roofs with flat seam
battens, wood doors, fishbelly steel center sills, and ARA trucks with
spring planks and Barber lateral motion devices.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520



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Re: Hills Brothers Coffee Car

Nick Gray <nagray@...>
 

I you get a chance I wouldn't mind a scan and would even pay for a reprint
of those photos

If Bill is going to produce one. Sign me up, it's one of those cars that
just has curb appeal, even if you can't use it on your layout.

At 12:24 AM 2/23/2001 -0500, you wrote:
Nick,

It's a real car. I have several photos which are out of reach at the
moment so I can't describe the car to you, but don't waste your time with
the TM model. I've never seen one that's worth saving either as a model
or as artwork. In this case the photos are very sharp and would be a
better starting point. In addition, I've sent copies of the pix to that
madcap painter of all stock rolling, Bill Schneider, who promises to
bring out a better looking model than TM did, if he hasn't already. I'm
sure he will chime in when he reads this.

Byron Rose


On Thu, 22 Feb 2001 22:04:00 -0600 Nick Gray <nagray@austin.rr.com>
writes:
I know I am going to regret this and will probably end up tossing it
in my
pile of things that I chop up and use for other projects. But I
couldn't
resist it.

The car is a Train-Miniature Hills Brothers Coffee Car, HBCX #161.
Other
data indicates Blt 3-30 and N&W 3-32 I think. There is no date on
the box
or instructions but it appears to be 20-30 years old.


First question is on authenticity. I recalled seeing that Micro-
trains had
one of these in n-scale. I would guess there must be some basis for
this
car. Does anyone have any information they would like to share?

Second question is on Viability of the project. So far the only
things
obviously other worth saving are the large decal, the rather decent
paint
and the body structure. Does someone make a decal out there. If I
want this
car as a detailing/rebuild project. Would it be better to start over
from
scratch?


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Re: Hills Brothers Coffee Car

Nick Gray <nagray@...>
 

Damn shame,

I guess this one gets added to my (2 year old) daughters collection. I
would still like a scan of the photo to see what the cars actually looked like

Thanks for the answer!

At 09:16 PM 2/22/2001 -0800, you wrote:
I know I am going to regret this and will probably end up tossing it in my
pile of things that I chop up and use for other projects. But I couldn't
resist it.

The car is a Train-Miniature Hills Brothers Coffee Car, HBCX #161. Other
data indicates Blt 3-30 and N&W 3-32 I think. There is no date on the box
or instructions but it appears to be 20-30 years old.


First question is on authenticity. I recalled seeing that Micro- trains had
one of these in n-scale. I would guess there must be some basis for this
car. Does anyone have any information they would like to share?

Second question is on Viability of the project. So far the only things
obviously other worth saving are the large decal, the rather decent paint
and the body structure. Does someone make a decal out there. If I want this
car as a detailing/rebuild project. Would it be better to start over from
scratch?
Uh, Nick, are you sure you want to go there? For some obscure reason,
Hills Brothers of San Francisco owned two box cars numbered 161 and 162
which were stenciled that they were built in 1930 but look like they were
built earlier (so 1930 may have been a rebuilding date). They lasted less
than ten years and were gone from the 1/40 ORER. In my 1933 ORER, their
reporting marks were HBKX, but later they were apparently changed to HBCX.
Ca. 1937 Will Whittaker photographed HBCX 161 on the San Francisco
waterfront, and your model is probably based on that photo. I have a print
of the photo and could send you a scan, but -

(1) These cars could not have operated in interchange, and probably were
just used for short hauls around San Francisco, as the car in the photo had
not been reweighed since 3-30, and -

(2) The T-M model can't really be converted into an accurate replica of the
prototype because, aside from numerous other problems, the Hills Bros. cars
were 9'8" IH, thus considerably taller than the T-M model.

FWIW, the prototype cars were double wood sheathed with wood body framing
and had 4-4 inverse Dreadnaught ends, metal sheathed roofs with flat seam
battens, wood doors, fishbelly steel center sills, and ARA trucks with
spring planks and Barber lateral motion devices.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520



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ECW N&W H-2 Hopper Car Kit

byronrose@...
 

Has anybody out there seen this piece of crap that Eastern Car Works just
brought out? It looks like the tooling was cut in the 30s or 40s, even
before N&W built them. Somebody please send them plans or photos pronto.
(Just make sure it's not that JHG drawing that MR published calling an
H-10 an H-2.) It's criminal that in this day and age, so much styrene
will lay down it's life for a model that's so poorly done. Kinda like
the un-Kadee.

Hey, maybe I can make some patterns for parts to correct its many flaws.
Yeah, that's it, right after I finish the tank car underframe.

BSR
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Re: Hills Brothers Coffee Car

byronrose@...
 

Nick,

It's a real car. I have several photos which are out of reach at the
moment so I can't describe the car to you, but don't waste your time with
the TM model. I've never seen one that's worth saving either as a model
or as artwork. In this case the photos are very sharp and would be a
better starting point. In addition, I've sent copies of the pix to that
madcap painter of all stock rolling, Bill Schneider, who promises to
bring out a better looking model than TM did, if he hasn't already. I'm
sure he will chime in when he reads this.

Byron Rose


On Thu, 22 Feb 2001 22:04:00 -0600 Nick Gray <nagray@austin.rr.com>
writes:
I know I am going to regret this and will probably end up tossing it
in my
pile of things that I chop up and use for other projects. But I
couldn't
resist it.

The car is a Train-Miniature Hills Brothers Coffee Car, HBCX #161.
Other
data indicates Blt 3-30 and N&W 3-32 I think. There is no date on
the box
or instructions but it appears to be 20-30 years old.


First question is on authenticity. I recalled seeing that Micro-
trains had
one of these in n-scale. I would guess there must be some basis for
this
car. Does anyone have any information they would like to share?

Second question is on Viability of the project. So far the only
things
obviously other worth saving are the large decal, the rather decent
paint
and the body structure. Does someone make a decal out there. If I
want this
car as a detailing/rebuild project. Would it be better to start over
from
scratch?


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Re: Hills Brothers Coffee Car

Richard Hendrickson
 

I know I am going to regret this and will probably end up tossing it in my
pile of things that I chop up and use for other projects. But I couldn't
resist it.

The car is a Train-Miniature Hills Brothers Coffee Car, HBCX #161. Other
data indicates Blt 3-30 and N&W 3-32 I think. There is no date on the box
or instructions but it appears to be 20-30 years old.


First question is on authenticity. I recalled seeing that Micro- trains had
one of these in n-scale. I would guess there must be some basis for this
car. Does anyone have any information they would like to share?

Second question is on Viability of the project. So far the only things
obviously other worth saving are the large decal, the rather decent paint
and the body structure. Does someone make a decal out there. If I want this
car as a detailing/rebuild project. Would it be better to start over from
scratch?
Uh, Nick, are you sure you want to go there? For some obscure reason,
Hills Brothers of San Francisco owned two box cars numbered 161 and 162
which were stenciled that they were built in 1930 but look like they were
built earlier (so 1930 may have been a rebuilding date). They lasted less
than ten years and were gone from the 1/40 ORER. In my 1933 ORER, their
reporting marks were HBKX, but later they were apparently changed to HBCX.
Ca. 1937 Will Whittaker photographed HBCX 161 on the San Francisco
waterfront, and your model is probably based on that photo. I have a print
of the photo and could send you a scan, but -

(1) These cars could not have operated in interchange, and probably were
just used for short hauls around San Francisco, as the car in the photo had
not been reweighed since 3-30, and -

(2) The T-M model can't really be converted into an accurate replica of the
prototype because, aside from numerous other problems, the Hills Bros. cars
were 9'8" IH, thus considerably taller than the T-M model.

FWIW, the prototype cars were double wood sheathed with wood body framing
and had 4-4 inverse Dreadnaught ends, metal sheathed roofs with flat seam
battens, wood doors, fishbelly steel center sills, and ARA trucks with
spring planks and Barber lateral motion devices.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Hills Brothers Coffee Car

Nick Gray <nagray@...>
 

I know I am going to regret this and will probably end up tossing it in my pile of things that I chop up and use for other projects. But I couldn't resist it.

The car is a Train-Miniature Hills Brothers Coffee Car, HBCX #161. Other data indicates Blt 3-30 and N&W 3-32 I think. There is no date on the box or instructions but it appears to be 20-30 years old.


First question is on authenticity. I recalled seeing that Micro- trains had one of these in n-scale. I would guess there must be some basis for this car. Does anyone have any information they would like to share?

Second question is on Viability of the project. So far the only things obviously other worth saving are the large decal, the rather decent paint and the body structure. Does someone make a decal out there. If I want this car as a detailing/rebuild project. Would it be better to start over from scratch?


B&LE hopper

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

Just noticed the Accurail version of the B&LE USRA hopper is black, not
their distinctive brown. Were B&LE hoppers ever black, or were the
USRA-type cars in a special service and so painted? (I think the answer is
no, but felt I would check.) - John


"Post No Advertisements"?

Shawn Beckert
 

Guys,

In my collection are several pictures of Cotton Belt
wood sheathed boxcars built in the mid-1920's. On the
upper right side of some of them is stenciled the
admonition "Post No Advertisements". Why was this
necessary? Were people in the habit of hanging signs
from railroad cars in those days? Or was this part of
the prohibition against billboard advertising on freight
cars? Betcha there's no decal for this...

Shawn Beckert


Re: "Bozo"

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

Mike and all,
Can't keep track of what list I posted Yahoo problems. It turned out
that things wouldn't work because I didn't want to give them information in
their little fill out form. When I created some false data and filled it
out everything worked.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax DCC owner, Chief system
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


"Bozo"

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson writes:

No doubt the tinplaters (forerunners of today's train set
bozos -I CAN say that here, can't I?)
The term "bozo" is an approved and acceptable term for use on the
STMFC....except when used to refer to me...even when accurate which might
occur more than I....

Mike Brock
STMFC owner


Re: GN express reefers, Mobilgas

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

Richard - I did a little more research. It wasn't until '34 that
Socony-Vacuum combined the Socony horse with Vacuum Oil's Mobiligas
brandname (so it wouldn't be much help to look at a '32 or earlier ORER).

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Hendrickson" <rhendrickson@opendoor.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 8:36 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] GN express reefers, Mobilgas


John Nehrich writes:

....it appears Mantua copied the Walthers decal set for Mobilgas, with
two
flying horses, in bright red on a silver car. The car reporting marks is
SOVX, which aren't listed in '40 - my '24, '27, and '32 ORER's are at
home.
But has anyone seen a prototype car so lettered? - John
John, I've puzzled about where Walthers got the idea for these decals for
many years. The decal set dates back at least to 1941, as I have a
Walthers O gauge catalog from that year in which a model tank car is shown
lettered with that set. But I've never found SOVX reporting marks in any
pre-1940 ORER, so I've concluded that the art work is entirely bogus -
unless it was used on a single display car at some event like the NY
World's Fair that never ran in revenue service. Mantua isn't the first
model RR manufacturer to copy the set; the evil that men do lives after
them. Of course, you have to remember that Walthers also produced a decal
set for an SP overnight merchandise car with a big orange winged emblem
and
other embellishments which never existed except in someone's overheated
imagination. No doubt the tinplaters (forerunners of today's train set
bozos -I CAN say that here, can't I?) thought these fictional paint and
lettering schemes were hot stuff. Bottom line: don't trust any of
Walthers' decal sets unless you've got prototype documentation.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520




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