Date   

Re: GN plywood side box car

Staffan Ehnbom <staffan.ehnbom@...>
 

Richard,

Only the 44400-44999 series had composite doors. The 44025-44399 series, built later, had all steel Youngstown doors. The even later, post war plywood side box cars had a variety of doors: The 10000-10499 series had early Youngstown and Superior doors. The 10500-10899 had improved Youngstown and Superior doors. When I interviewed former St. Cloud shops foreman Leo Zierden he indicated it was a hassle to get parts after the war and so a car series would have to be equipped with the parts that could be secured be it Youngstown or Superior.

You already corrected that the wood used was plywood and not T&G.

Staffan Ehnbom

----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Hendrickson
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 7:56 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: GN plywood side box car


On Jan 30, 2008, at 10:37 AM, rockroll50401 wrote:

> It has been mentioned that all the doors on these cars were steel. I
> have a sunshine kit (I need to build before the IM car comes out). It
> has the odd looking door with the flat section at the bottom (or top).
> I've seen the IM model and it has a standard looking corrugated door.
> I'm sure my Sunshine kit instructions will tell me all about these
> cars, but I just thought of those funny looking kind of like war
> emerency doors. Were they composite?

Yes. The lower section, to which the rollers and latches were
attaches, was corrugated steel. The rest of the door was steel framed
with T&G wood sheathing. These doors were used on a number of other
War Emergency box cars, as well as on the GN 44025-44999 series plywood
sheathed cars (some of which, BTW, also had National B-1 trucks). The
later GN plywood sheathed box cars with postwar Improved Dreadnaught
ends had full Youngstown corrugated steel doors, however.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: GN plywood side box car

Staffan Ehnbom <staffan.ehnbom@...>
 

Clark,

Yes, they were composite using plywood like was used in the car sides. Composite Youngstown doors were used on the 44400-44749 series, composite Superior doors were used on the 44750-44999 series. These series were built first also using wood stringers under the floor as there was a shortage of steel. The 44025-44399 series were built later, not earlier as several sources indicate, using all steel doors and steel stringers as steel became more readily available.

Staffan Ehnbom

----- Original Message -----
From: rockroll50401
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 7:37 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: GN plywood side box car


It has been mentioned that all the doors on these cars were steel. I
have a sunshine kit (I need to build before the IM car comes out). It
has the odd looking door with the flat section at the bottom (or top).
I've seen the IM model and it has a standard looking corrugated door.
I'm sure my Sunshine kit instructions will tell me all about these
cars, but I just thought of those funny looking kind of like war
emerency doors. Were they composite?

Clark Propst


Re: Tichy Andrew truck question

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Jim Mischke asked:
"The Andrews trucks supplied with the Tichy car are accurate for this
B&O hopper class. However when I substituted Kadee wheel sets for
the supplied plastic wheels, the truck would not assemble. The
Kadee wheel sets (their ne[e]dle bearings) were too big for the hole
provided in the side frame.

I have not encountered this before with HO freight trucks. I would
welcome some insight into alternate trucks, alternate wheel sets or
workarounds."

There is no establshed NMRA Standard or RP for wheel axle length, so
you will find differences as you venture away from the Athearn or
Kadee trucks that most modelers are familiar with. Reboxx offers a
variety of axle lengths for both their RP25 and semiscale
wheelsets. Here's a link to their 33" wheelset application chart:
http://www.reboxx.com/Documents/Wheelsets/33%20Application%
20Chart.pdf


Ben Hom


Re: Tichy Andrew truck question

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jan 30, 2008, at 1:47 PM, jim_mischke wrote:

The Andrews trucks supplied with the Tichy car are accurate for this
B&O hopper class. However when I substituted Kadee wheel sets for
the supplied plastic wheels, the truck would not assemble . The
Kadee wheel sets (their neddle bearings) were too big for the hole
provided in the side frame.

I have not encountered this before with HO freight trucks. I would
welcome some insight into alternate trucks, alternate wheel sets or
workarounds.
The journal bearing tool described by Carl Marsico might do the job,
but it sounds like you'd have to remove a lot of material. Both
Accurail and Intermountain now have excellent HO scale USRA Andrews
trucks, and the Kadee wheelsets should fit both of them with no
problem.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Tichy Andrew truck question

Spen Kellogg <spenkell@...>
 

Carl J. Marsico wrote:
Some wheel set manufacturers offer different axle lengths to accomodate different trucks. I also recall seeing a tool that reams out "extra" plastic for "too long" bearings, should you want to stick with the Kadee wheelsets.
Carl,

While the "Tool" may ream out additional material to accommodate longer axle length, its real purpose is to get the exact 60 degree angle specified by the NMRA, thus ensuring a full bearing surface for axles machined to those specs.

Regards, Spen Kellogg


Re: Tichy Andrew truck question

Carl J. Marsico <Carlmarsico@...>
 

Some wheel set manufacturers offer different axle lengths to accomodate different trucks. I also recall seeing a tool that reams out "extra" plastic for "too long" bearings, should you want to stick with the Kadee wheelsets.

CJM

----- Original Message ----
From: jim_mischke <jmischke@worldnet.att.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 3:47:26 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Tichy Andrew truck question


One current project I am working on is rendering a B&O class N-17
USRA ribbed twin hopper starting with a Tichy twin hopper. There
is an inaccuracy with rib spacing but I am willing to overlook it for
the exceptional detail.

The Andrews trucks supplied with the Tichy car are accurate for this
B&O hopper class. However when I substituted Kadee wheel sets for
the supplied plastic wheels, the truck would not assemble . The
Kadee wheel sets (their neddle bearings) were too big for the hole
provided in the side frame.

I have not encountered this before with HO freight trucks. I would
welcome some insight into alternate trucks, alternate wheel sets or
workarounds.


Tichy Andrew truck question

jim_mischke <jmischke@...>
 

One current project I am working on is rendering a B&O class N-17
USRA ribbed twin hopper starting with a Tichy twin hopper. There
is an inaccuracy with rib spacing but I am willing to overlook it for
the exceptional detail.

The Andrews trucks supplied with the Tichy car are accurate for this
B&O hopper class. However when I substituted Kadee wheel sets for
the supplied plastic wheels, the truck would not assemble . The
Kadee wheel sets (their neddle bearings) were too big for the hole
provided in the side frame.

I have not encountered this before with HO freight trucks. I would
welcome some insight into alternate trucks, alternate wheel sets or
workarounds.


Re: Accurail SS boxcars with fishbelly frame

Jonathan Grant <jonagrant@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "rwitt_2000" <rmwitt@...> wrote:
I assume this is the long out-of-production resin kit?

Yes Bob.

It amazes me what turns up at swapmeets over here in England. The
Autocar was still in kit form in the original box. I think the original
buyer had done nothing more than open the box (and bend the decal
sheet). Still, good news for me.

Jon


Re: Jack Delano color photos

Tom Madden <tgmadden@...>
 

Tim asked:
Didn't Pullman cover most paint with "varnish" as a clear coat? So
not only is the paint important, but perhaps the finish clear coats
also changed and would that affect how frequently passenger cars
were repainted? In addition passenger cars were washed frequently
(while freight cars were almost never washed) and so the effects of
brushes, detergents and abrasion would be significant for passenger
cars.
I guess I was thinking of the Imron epoxy "paints" applied to
excursion locos today, which appear to be so glossy (and retain that
gloss) that any cruds landing on the surface would have a hard time
staying there. That's an entirely different surface than you'd get
with pre-1950 paints. Any sort of gloss finish on those paints,
whether from an extra layer of varnish or leveling agents in the
paint, would break down relatively quickly, leaving a rough(er)
surface on which contaminants would readily stick. Pullman had to
apply the varnish coat fairly frequently to keep their cars looking
fresh.

On the other hand, passenger cars probably didn't have standing
piles of crud on their roofs with acidic compounds that ran down
the car sides for days and weeks on end. (Coal smoke was full of
sulfur componds for example.)
Indeed. As has been pointed out many times, Eastern weathering is
corrosion-based (rain, soot and the general acidity of the
environment) while Western weathering tends to be abrasion-based
(wind, sun and blowing sand/dirt). Eastern lawn care requires the
generous and frequent application of lime to reduce the acidity of
the soil. When we moved from New Jersey to Colorado in 1970 I went to
a garden center to pick up some lime to spread on the lawn, and they
just laughed at me! Soils are very alkaline out here.

Tom Madden


Re: Freight car weathering [Was: Jack Delano color photos]

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

As a reminder to folks who are new to this list or may have missed it
the first time, Richard Hendrickson's article "Vintage-Dating Freight
Cars With Weathering" published in the December 1995 issue of
Railmodel Journal is a must read for anyone wanting to understand more
about how a systematic approach to weathering helps to effectively
recreate a given time on your layout.


Ben Hom


Re: Jack Delano color photos

Tim O'Connor
 

Tom

Didn't Pullman cover most paint with "varnish" as a clear coat? So
not only is the paint important, but perhaps the finish clear coats also
changed and would that affect how frequently passenger cars were
repainted? In addition passenger cars were washed frequently (while
freight cars were almost never washed) and so the effects of brushes,
detergents and abrasion would be significant for passenger cars. On
the other hand, passenger cars probably didn't have standing piles of
crud on their roofs with acidic compounds that ran down the car sides
for days and weeks on end. (Coal smoke was full of sulfur componds
for example.)

Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Tom Madden" <tgmadden@worldnet.att.net>
Wouldn't the roughness of the painted surfaces have a lot to do with
how "weathered" a car looked? Pullman, in its glory days, repainted its
cars every couple of years. That tells me the glossy surface finishes
of the steam era broke down relatively quickly. Having done a few
(well, more than a few) bad airbrush jobs where the paint went on too
dry, I can certainly see how a rough painted surface would hold soot
and general grime much more readily than a smooth finish. The phasing
out of steam locomotives and the phasing in of synthetic paints (were
they concurrent?) would certainly have changed weathering patterns.

Just a random thought.

Tom Madden


Re: GN plywood side box car

Andy Carlson
 

GN also had composite doors built by Superior. These doors shared the height dimensions with the other Superior doors, the 7 panel with a short top panel. The Youngstown composite doors shared the increased height of the all-steel Youngstown doors, both pre-war and later. The Youngstown doors were all taller doors than any of the Superiors.

I have a scanned photo from Hickcock's Morning Sun GN Color Guide which show the composite Superior door, and if anyone wants to look at this scan, send me an off-list email requesting it. <midcentury@sbcglobal.net>

Regards,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@opendoor.com> wrote: On Jan 30, 2008, at 10:58 AM, Bruce Smith wrote:

> ...After all the discussion here yesterday, I pulled out my Sunshine
> kit
> last night, and much to my delight, found the same thing. The kit I
> have models the 44xxx series cars built in 1944. These cars have a
> composite plywood and steel door with the top 3/4 being plywood.

I wrote that War Emergency composite doors had upper sections of T&G
wood, which was true on other WE box cars that had such doors, but
Bruce is, of course, correct that on the GN plywood sheathed cars the
wood on the doors was plywood, not T&G.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: GN plywood side box car

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jan 30, 2008, at 10:58 AM, Bruce Smith wrote:

...After all the discussion here yesterday, I pulled out my Sunshine
kit
last night, and much to my delight, found the same thing. The kit I
have models the 44xxx series cars built in 1944. These cars have a
composite plywood and steel door with the top 3/4 being plywood.
I wrote that War Emergency composite doors had upper sections of T&G
wood, which was true on other WE box cars that had such doors, but
Bruce is, of course, correct that on the GN plywood sheathed cars the
wood on the doors was plywood, not T&G.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Freight car weathering [Was: Jack Delano color photos]

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jan 30, 2008, at 9:52 AM, Jack Burgess wrote:

I wonder if this might be related somewhat to the regional being
modeled.
The railroads operating in California (the limit of my knowledge <g>)
adopted oil very early due to the lack of coal and oil was very clean
burning. (The photos by Clegg and Beebe of oil burners with huge
clouds of
black smoke were staged at the request of the photographers.)
Industries in
California also didn't, to my knowledge, rely that heavily on coal. I
have 8
color photos of YV freight trains in the early 1940s and about 75-80%
of the
box cars are relatively clean....the roads represented include the
SP, ATSF,
GN, and NP, all western roads.
Jack is certainly correct that region and service assignments made a
difference. Cars that largely stayed out west are seen in photos to be
less grimy and more subject to faded and dusty paint than those, even
those owned by western RRs, which operated in general service and went
almost everywhere in the country in interchange. And, of course, the
dirtiest freight cars typically belonged to RRs in the northeast like
the PRR and NYC, since they spent much of their lives in coal burning
territory and in the grimy industrial northeast. It's also worth
pointing out that freight cars tended to be better maintained and more
frequently repainted in the late 1930s and early '40s, when the worst
economic effects of the depression were over but the heavy traffic
demands and deferred maintenance of the WW II era had not yet taken
their toll, than was the case in the mid-to-late 1940s. After the war
ended, it took several years for the RRs to acquire new cars, retire
old ones, and catch up on the maintenance and repainting of prewar cars
that were still in service. These variables all need to be considered
in weathering a model freight car fleet.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: GN plywood side box car

Bruce Smith
 

On Jan 30, 2008, at 12:37 PM, rockroll50401 wrote:

It has been mentioned that all the doors on these cars were steel. I
have a sunshine kit (I need to build before the IM car comes out). It
has the odd looking door with the flat section at the bottom (or top).
I've seen the IM model and it has a standard looking corrugated door.
I'm sure my Sunshine kit instructions will tell me all about these
cars, but I just thought of those funny looking kind of like war
emerency doors. Were they composite?

Clark Propst
Clark,

After all the discussion here yesterday, I pulled out my Sunshine kit last night, and much to my delight, found the same thing. The kit I have models the 44xxx series cars built in 1944. These cars have a composite plywood and steel door with the top 3/4 being plywood. According to the Sunshine prototype data sheet, the initial cars in the original run had a stamped steel door, then the composite doors were used. Subsequent post-war built cars had steel doors, including a group with 7 panel (Superior?) doors. The IM model appears to be one of the immediate post-war series of cars, and is not identical to the Sunshine kit I have.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Re: GN plywood side box car

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jan 30, 2008, at 10:37 AM, rockroll50401 wrote:

It has been mentioned that all the doors on these cars were steel. I
have a sunshine kit (I need to build before the IM car comes out). It
has the odd looking door with the flat section at the bottom (or top).
I've seen the IM model and it has a standard looking corrugated door.
I'm sure my Sunshine kit instructions will tell me all about these
cars, but I just thought of those funny looking kind of like war
emerency doors. Were they composite?
Yes. The lower section, to which the rollers and latches were
attaches, was corrugated steel. The rest of the door was steel framed
with T&G wood sheathing. These doors were used on a number of other
War Emergency box cars, as well as on the GN 44025-44999 series plywood
sheathed cars (some of which, BTW, also had National B-1 trucks). The
later GN plywood sheathed box cars with postwar Improved Dreadnaught
ends had full Youngstown corrugated steel doors, however.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Jack Delano color photos

Tom Madden <tgmadden@...>
 

Wouldn't the roughness of the painted surfaces have a lot to do with
how "weathered" a car looked? Pullman, in its glory days, repainted its
cars every couple of years. That tells me the glossy surface finishes
of the steam era broke down relatively quickly. Having done a few
(well, more than a few) bad airbrush jobs where the paint went on too
dry, I can certainly see how a rough painted surface would hold soot
and general grime much more readily than a smooth finish. The phasing
out of steam locomotives and the phasing in of synthetic paints (were
they concurrent?) would certainly have changed weathering patterns.

Just a random thought.

Tom Madden


Re: GN plywood side box car

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

It has been mentioned that all the doors on these cars were steel. I
have a sunshine kit (I need to build before the IM car comes out). It
has the odd looking door with the flat section at the bottom (or top).
I've seen the IM model and it has a standard looking corrugated door.
I'm sure my Sunshine kit instructions will tell me all about these
cars, but I just thought of those funny looking kind of like war
emerency doors. Were they composite?

Clark Propst


Re: Accurail SS boxcars with fishbelly frame

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "rwitt_2000" <rmwitt@...> wrote:


Jonathan Grant wrote in part:

Over here in England, ... the more useful items only seem to show up
occasionally at Swapmeets,
such as this Autocar kit from Dennis, that I picked up a couple of
weeks ago.

http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showphoto.php/photo/77599
I assume this is the long out-of-production resin kit?

Bob Witt
Yes.

Dennis


Freight car weathering [Was: Jack Delano color photos]

Jack Burgess
 

I wonder if this might be related somewhat to the regional being modeled.
The railroads operating in California (the limit of my knowledge <g>)
adopted oil very early due to the lack of coal and oil was very clean
burning. (The photos by Clegg and Beebe of oil burners with huge clouds of
black smoke were staged at the request of the photographers.) Industries in
California also didn't, to my knowledge, rely that heavily on coal. I have 8
color photos of YV freight trains in the early 1940s and about 75-80% of the
box cars are relatively clean....the roads represented include the SP, ATSF,
GN, and NP, all western roads.

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com

120221 - 120240 of 189612