Date   

Re: Chips

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tom Madden wrote:
Mike Brock regales us with . . . the large number of "analopes" (an interesting mispelling considering the subject at hand - and underfoot) . . .
Glad someone besides me noticed this <g>.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Adding weight to a stock car

Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
 

I like what Tony said. It should look full, but with some degree of ambiguity. If the load clearly looks like animals, then it will look wrong for half of the car's miles and when it's in the origin yard waiting for distribution.


Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478


Re: Three freight cars...

balryan@...
 

Frank,

On the Bamberger 50' box car from the photo Ive seen it looks to be a Freight Car Red. This off a color slide.

Ryan Ballard

-----Original Message-----
From: destron@...
To: stmfc@...
Sent: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 11:59 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Three freight cars...








I've found some photos online, and I'm wondering if anyone might be able
to provide some further details or information on these cars so as to
allow models to be made?

1. Kansas City, Kaw Valley reefer #208

I found two photos of Kaw Valley refrigerators from the Don Ross
collection. The one I would like to model is number 208. What the picture
shows is a truss-rod reefer with light coloured sides (yellow? white?),
darker coloured (red of some sort, I'd guess) kickboards, end and (I
think!) roof; the underframe and the arch bar trucks are also a darker
colour, but I can't tell if it would've been red or black. The lettering
seems darker than the end, so I'd guess it is black, apart from the
lighter-coloured (red?) "Kaw Valley Line" herald above the "VENTILATED
REFRIGERATOR SERVICE" inscription to the right of the door; to the left is
"KAW VALLEY REFRIGERATOR EXPRESS" on two lines over the road number. No
data is on the sides, but the photo of car #209, which looks fairly
similar (apart from the presence of ladder and grabs on the end, which 208
lacks), is marked CAPY 40000, but I can't make the rest out in the photo.

2. Chicago, North Shore & Milwaukee flat #1613

Another photo I found is of a long flat car (60'?) of the North Shore
Line. It has some funky braces on the side to I guess secure the load; in
the photo it is three North Shore Line-lettered short truck trailers. Any
dimensional information and colour information (my guess is black) would
be of great interest.

3. Bamberger 50' boxcar #800

Does anybody know what colour this was?

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC

-----
http://hydrorail.hostwq.net/index.html - Rails along the Fraser
http://hydrorail.rrpicturearchives.net/ - Rail Photos





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Re: Chips

Tom Madden <tgmadden@...>
 

Mike Brock regales us with tales of colorful cow chips and the
confusion he experiences because the large number of "analopes" (an
interesting mispelling considering the subject at hand - and underfoot)
mix their food byproducts with those of the UP's cattle passengers,
then suggests:

Tom Madden doesn't live too far from there...perhaps he could take
a quick trip up there and take some photos of both during
production for the archives.
Of course. Laramie is always where I want to be in February. But I
should thing the chips, during production, would be frozen before they
hit the ground right now. Or blown past Chian.

Tom "always interested in the end product" Madden


Re: Adding weight to a stock car

Jerry Dziedzic
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Douglas Harding" <dharding@...> wrote:

Stockcars were typically shoveled out and then steam cleaned after
use. The
steam caused the paint to peel and the wood to fade. You might
consider a
grey for weathered wood with an off-white to represent the lime that
was
used for a disenfectant, but I concur on the flat black as far less
visible.

FWIW, I have begun shooting the interior of my stock cars with a medium
gray, weights and all. You'd be surprised how subtle the effect is; in
my opinion, gives the sides more visual "pop" than otherwise.

Jerry Dziedzic
Pattenburg, NJ


Re: Adding weight to a stock car

Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
 

I use a thin layer of lead sheet on the floor, painted black like the floor. The lighting is rarely good enough to notice the floor inside a stock car and besides my eyes aren't small enough to see through the slats.

Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478


Chips

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Doug Harding notes:

And Mike if you are really interested, they raise cattle in Florida, head
inland and look down, be careful where you walk. I don't think the color of
manure has changed through the years. It is affected by what the cattle are
eating.
But that's the point, Doug. Florida grasses are quite different from those in Iowa and/or Wyoming. Wouldn't it be better to match to a chip in the area of actual use? To add to that, chip colors have probably changed over the yrs due to changes in grass types and....well...there must be SOME reason but I'm not sure if the color of such chips might change over time. We obviously need to hear from someone more versed in chip matters than I am.

Spen Kellogg adds:

"Haven't you modeled those chips on the federal grazing land alongside
your track work climbing up and over Sherman Hill? <VBG> What color are
those "chips?"

Well, yes, I've tried to determine the colors from photos from the '50's but one should never trust to film with its color shifts, etc. And, besides, there's those &%*($$ analopes that were and still are found on the Hill. I can't tell if the chip is from analope or cattle from photos. In fact, I think the only sure fire way would be to see them being produced. Tom Madden doesn't live too far from there...perhaps he could take a quick trip up there and take some photos of both during production for the archives. I'd hate for someone to discover that I had used the color of analope chips in my stock cars. And, don't forget... The cars...once emptied of cattle would have these floor colors until cleaning. One BIG advantage with this pursuit of knowledge is that it will help in modeling the ground in the stock pen at Buford. Hmmm. Wonder if they cleaned that very often?

Mike Brock


Re: Seaboard-Coast Line Modeler No. 3

Doug Brown <g.brown1@...>
 

I closed Outlook, reopened it and now the main page link works.

Doug

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Doug
Brown
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 10:29 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Seaboard-Coast Line Modeler No. 3



I got to the index page last night through the link on the aclsal.org main
page. Today that link does not work. The /index.htm is still on the link but
not on the page URL.

Doug Brown

-----Original Message-----
From: HYPERLINK "mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com"STMFC@...
[mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com"STMFC@...] On
Behalf Of ROB
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 7:40 AM
To: HYPERLINK "mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com"STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Seaboard-Coast Line Modeler No. 3

I had to go to the site and take the / index.htm off of the link.....

Rob

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Re: Seaboard-Coast Line Modeler No. 3

Doug Brown <g.brown1@...>
 

I got to the index page last night through the link on the aclsal.org main
page. Today that link does not work. The /index.htm is still on the link but
not on the page URL.



Doug Brown

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of ROB
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 7:40 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Seaboard-Coast Line Modeler No. 3



I had to go to the site and take the / index.htm off of the link.....

Rob






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Re: Seaboard-Coast Line Modeler No. 3

ROB <lawdog99999@...>
 

I had to go to the site and take the / index.htm off of the link.....

Rob


---------------------------------
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Re: Adding weight to a stock car

Spen Kellogg <spenkell@...>
 

Mike Brock wrote:
Flat black? Have you studied the...uh....floor colors of these cars? Wouldn't you be better off coming up with a...uh...chip color [ somewhat akin to "buffalo chips" that were used supposedly long ago in the west for camp fires ] from...uh...cattle to compare to? The question would depend, I suppose, on the type of cattle. Hereford Brown perhaps? Angus Dark Brown or maybe Long Horn Greenish Brown? Obviously, I'm not much on cattle but might not the color of "chips" depend upon the food source? I cannot imagine how one might come up with the "correct" color without a "chip" to match. Hmmm. Wonder where one might obtain such "chips" from the steam era?
Mike,

Haven't you modeled those chips on the federal grazing land alongside your track work climbing up and over Sherman Hill? <VBG> What color are those "chips?"

Regards, Spen Kellogg


Re: Adding weight to a stock car

Spen Kellogg <spenkell@...>
 

Garth G. Groff wrote:
As for loaded and unloaded cars, I wonder if you could load the car with some animals on one side, but put in some sort of baffle or curtain on the other (safely back from the slats). Then the cars would appear loaded from one side, and empty from the other. At the start of of an operating session, they could be turned for the appropriate loads/empties direction.
Except I think the most striking feature of an empty stock car is being able to see through to the other side.

Regards, Spen Kellogg


Re: Adding weight to a stock car

Douglas Harding <dharding@...>
 

Stockcars were typically shoveled out and then steam cleaned after use. The
steam caused the paint to peel and the wood to fade. You might consider a
grey for weathered wood with an off-white to represent the lime that was
used for a disenfectant, but I concur on the flat black as far less visible.

And Mike if you are really interested, they raise cattle in Florida, head
inland and look down, be careful where you walk. I don't think the color of
manure has changed through the years. It is affected by what the cattle are
eating. But think a green brown if fresh, or a grey brown if dried. Cow
chips are still used in throwing contests. They hold one every year at the
Iowa State Fair, the ladies do pretty good, the TV celebrities less so. But
they have to import the chips from elsewhere, Iowa gets to much rain and we
don't produce good solid cow chips.

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org

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11:17 AM


Re: Seaboard-Coast Line Modeler No. 3

Dennis Williams
 

For some reason I cannot open this site. Dennis
--- John Golden <golden1014@...> wrote:

All,

The latest issue of the S-CL Modeler was released
yesterday. You can check it out at
http://s-clmodeler.aclsal.org/index.htm.

We're also pleased to include on our website Bill
Welch's special addendum "Wood Sheathed Cars of the
FGEX/WFEX/BREX Freight Refrigerator Fleet:
1940-1953".
This is a masterpiece--a must-have for your
records--and compliments Bill's Intermountain FGE
refrigerator car review included in this issue of
The
S-CL Modeler. Our thanks to Bill and Ben Hom for
creating the articles and providing them to us for
the
betterment of the modeling community. Great job,
guys!

John


John Golden
Bloomington, IN

http://www.pbase.com/golden1014

http://s-clmodeler.aclsal.org/currentissue/sclmodeler2007-2.pdf





____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs


Re: [S-CLmodeler] Seaboard-Coast Line Modeler No. 3

golden1014
 

Sorry, gang--the period got added to the address in my
previous announcement.

Here's the correct address:
http://s-clmodeler.aclsal.org/index.htm

ACL & SAL HS website is located at:
http://www.aclsal.org/

Thanks!
John

John Golden
Bloomington, IN


--- John Golden <golden1014@...> wrote:

All,

The latest issue of the S-CL Modeler was released
yesterday. You can check it out at
http://s-clmodeler.aclsal.org/index.htm.

We're also pleased to include on our website Bill
Welch's special addendum "Wood Sheathed Cars of the
FGEX/WFEX/BREX Freight Refrigerator Fleet:
1940-1953".
This is a masterpiece--a must-have for your
records--and compliments Bill's Intermountain FGE
refrigerator car review included in this issue of
The
S-CL Modeler. Our thanks to Bill and Ben Hom for
creating the articles and providing them to us for
the
betterment of the modeling community. Great job,
guys!

John


John Golden
Bloomington, IN

http://www.pbase.com/golden1014

http://s-clmodeler.aclsal.org/currentissue/sclmodeler2007-2.pdf




John Golden
Bloomington, IN

http://www.pbase.com/golden1014
http://s-clmodeler.aclsal.org/currentissue/sclmodeler2007-2.pdf


Seaboard-Coast Line Modeler No. 3

golden1014
 

All,

The latest issue of the S-CL Modeler was released
yesterday. You can check it out at
http://s-clmodeler.aclsal.org/index.htm.

We're also pleased to include on our website Bill
Welch's special addendum "Wood Sheathed Cars of the
FGEX/WFEX/BREX Freight Refrigerator Fleet: 1940-1953".
This is a masterpiece--a must-have for your
records--and compliments Bill's Intermountain FGE
refrigerator car review included in this issue of The
S-CL Modeler. Our thanks to Bill and Ben Hom for
creating the articles and providing them to us for the
betterment of the modeling community. Great job, guys!

John


John Golden
Bloomington, IN

http://www.pbase.com/golden1014
http://s-clmodeler.aclsal.org/currentissue/sclmodeler2007-2.pdf


Re: Adding weight to a stock car

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Tony,

Pigs and sheep, which were loaded more or less at random, require only enough animals (or blobs) to give the illusion of a complete load. I think if the cattle are supposed to have their bovine butts chock-a-block against the slats for the whole length of the real car, you would need to have to completely fill the model to get the right look. There must be loading diagrams someplace that show how cattle are to be loaded. They did them for everything else from mill stones to steam tractors. Has anyone ever actually modeled a full cattle load correctly, and if so, what was the effect?

As for loaded and unloaded cars, I wonder if you could load the car with some animals on one side, but put in some sort of baffle or curtain on the other (safely back from the slats). Then the cars would appear loaded from one side, and empty from the other. At the start of of an operating session, they could be turned for the appropriate loads/empties direction.

Kind regards,


Garth G. G5roff

Anthony Thompson wrote:

Garth G. Groff wrote:

Just a "few lead cows" won't quite work. Cattle had to be packed tightly in stock cars so they couldn't fall over. If they did, they were usually fatally trampled . . .
But the only goal is to LOOK full. As is readily demonstrated with any stock car model, visibility is pretty darn restricted. If you want a loaded car, make it LOOK full. Richard Hendrickson's use of rough foam approximations of livestock works because you can't really discern what's in there. So I'd say, put a suitable weight in the car center, add some stock at the outside if you want, and you're done.
Personally, I don't put stock in the cars because I don't want them ALWAYS loaded, and since one can't see in very well, it's not normally a problem. Same point regarding weight: I just put it on the floor and paint flat black. It's essentially invisible.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Three freight cars...

destron@...
 

I've found some photos online, and I'm wondering if anyone might be able
to provide some further details or information on these cars so as to
allow models to be made?

1. Kansas City, Kaw Valley reefer #208

I found two photos of Kaw Valley refrigerators from the Don Ross
collection. The one I would like to model is number 208. What the picture
shows is a truss-rod reefer with light coloured sides (yellow? white?),
darker coloured (red of some sort, I'd guess) kickboards, end and (I
think!) roof; the underframe and the arch bar trucks are also a darker
colour, but I can't tell if it would've been red or black. The lettering
seems darker than the end, so I'd guess it is black, apart from the
lighter-coloured (red?) "Kaw Valley Line" herald above the "VENTILATED
REFRIGERATOR SERVICE" inscription to the right of the door; to the left is
"KAW VALLEY REFRIGERATOR EXPRESS" on two lines over the road number. No
data is on the sides, but the photo of car #209, which looks fairly
similar (apart from the presence of ladder and grabs on the end, which 208
lacks), is marked CAPY 40000, but I can't make the rest out in the photo.

2. Chicago, North Shore & Milwaukee flat #1613

Another photo I found is of a long flat car (60'?) of the North Shore
Line. It has some funky braces on the side to I guess secure the load; in
the photo it is three North Shore Line-lettered short truck trailers. Any
dimensional information and colour information (my guess is black) would
be of great interest.

3. Bamberger 50' boxcar #800

Does anybody know what colour this was?

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC

-----
http://hydrorail.hostwq.net/index.html - Rails along the Fraser
http://hydrorail.rrpicturearchives.net/ - Rail Photos


Sunset Pacific Oil Company Tank Cars

Dan Gledhill
 

Hello,
Looking for any sources of photos or info,on the Sunset Pacific Oil Company ,which was I believe located in the L.A. area prior to WW 2.
Especially of interest would be a photo of their tank cars showing the logo and color of which may have been silver and black.The cars would have been leased to this Oil Company by CDLX from what info.I have found ,but possibly others were also involved.
I realize that there was a chain of gas stations on the west Coast of the U.S. by this name ,but can not find any info. that pertains to transportation of the products moved out of L.A. from the refinery to distributors.
My goal is to build and paint an accurate model of one of these early steam era cars and as well learn more about these interesting but little known privately owned early tank cars with their often strikingly painted logos.
Thanks in advance.
Dan Gledhill



---------------------------------
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Re: Adding weight to a stock car

Tom Madden <tgmadden@...>
 

Mike Brock, misunderstanding the meaning of "color chip", wrote:
Flat black? Have you studied the...uh....floor colors of these
cars? Wouldn't you be better off coming up with a...uh...chip color
[ somewhat akin to "buffalo chips" that were used supposedly long ago
in the west for camp fires ] from...uh...cattle to compare to?
[exploration of sources and colors of such chips deleted]

At the risk of taking this seriously, wouldn't an empty stock car tend
to be clean and cleared of such debris? I'm thinking of Al Hoffman's
rather vivid description of the condition of poultry cars after they've
been off-loaded, and how quickly and thoroughly they were cleaned.
Shouldn't think stock cars would be all that different. So unless
you're going to model loaded stock cars, flat black would seem like the
best bet for a floor weight.

For some reason this brings to mind a Mason Williams' Smothers Brothers
sketch, which CBS censored:

Tom Smothers: In Russia, they've got this really great ballet....

Dick Smothers: Bolshoi.

Tom Smothers: No, really, they do!

Tom Madden

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