Date   

Re: 1930s train of coal hoppers - video anachronisms?

Jonathan Grant <jonagrant@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Pitzer" <scottp459@...> wrote:

I'm sure the billboard italic WESTERN MARYLAND is too modern.

Thanks. The WM hopper will be re-assigned to the 1950s fleet of freight
cars.

Jon


Re: Information On Kalso Shops Kit

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

I have built the Kaslo, Sylvan and Steam Shack (F&C) models of these
cars. CN had 10,000 of these cars built in the 503500-513499 series,
making it a car found everywhere on North American rails.

I rate the Kaslo the best because of the fit of its parts and what
you can do with the car. The etched stainless steel ladders are a
very nice piece of work! I am building a second car to represent a
1949 CC&F rebuild that replaced the Hutchins roof with a Standard
Railway Equipment diagonal-panel roof that used a four-board running
board as well. Stafford Swain's articles and Ted
Culotta's "Essential Freight Cars" article on these cars are very
useful.

The Steam Shack car was the first kit for these cars, but takes a
fair bit of work to assemble the body square, and the floor has some
height issues when mounted on trucks. Not sure why this is--does F&C
use generic floors for some car kits?

The Sylvan car has a nice one-piece body with nicely-executed board
detail and their own brake details, but as is sometimes the case with
one-piece bodies, the roof is not quite straight on the model that I
have built.

I have built these cars with both "K" and "AB" brakes. Rob Kirkham's
mention of the travelling sheave handbrake rigging (sort of a power
handbrake arrangment for stemwinders?) leads me to believe that it is
very similar to CN tank cars built around the same time that are
available in HO kit form from Pro Modelbuilders/NorWest Kits and
Castings of Vancouver, BC.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "parkvarieties"
<parkvarieties@...> wrote:

I just purchased a group of car kits from an individual which
includes
a Kelso Shops Distributing resin kit HK-10 for a 1929 CN single
sheath
box car, modernized version. I am not familiar with this company
which distributed the kit out of Coquitlam, BC, Canada. Can anyone
advise me on the accuracy of the model, level of detail and any
assembly problems you might have had? Thanks.
Frank Brua


Information On Kalso Shops Kit

Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

Hi Bill,

That approach is what I will eventually adopt if I haven't figured out a way to model the sheave etc system I see in photos. I'm a little busy with some other projects about to get started, so that will be on the backburner for a while!

Rob

----- Original Message -----
From: "W.R.Dixon" <WRDixon@telus.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 9:39 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Information On Kalso Shops Kit


Rob Kirkham wrote:
Hi Frank,

Mine went together very easily. I've built a Sylvan version, Kaslo version
and a Funaro and Camerlengo version. To be frank, now that they are built,
I can't tell which is which any more!

If you develop any specific questions fire away. I was just finishing these
around Christmas. The one trick is if you want K brakes instead of AB - in
which case you will be where I am - still trying to figure it out!
Not that big a deal for a quick and dirty job. Start with a Tichy 3005
KC brake set.

Drop the Air Reservoir and triple valve. Do not install the unneeded
piping. Replace the A/B brake cylinder with the Tichy KC. This will
require a minor change to the piping.

Brake rigging can stay the same.

You will need to replace Brake wheel with a vertical Staff. The Tichy
set has what you need.

There is probably more to it than that but it will do as a stand-in.

Bill Dixon


Re: Information On Kalso Shops Kit

W.R.Dixon
 

Rob Kirkham wrote:
Hi Frank,
Mine went together very easily. I've built a Sylvan version, Kaslo version and a Funaro and Camerlengo version. To be frank, now that they are built, I can't tell which is which any more!
If you develop any specific questions fire away. I was just finishing these around Christmas. The one trick is if you want K brakes instead of AB - in which case you will be where I am - still trying to figure it out!
Not that big a deal for a quick and dirty job. Start with a Tichy 3005 KC brake set.

Drop the Air Reservoir and triple valve. Do not install the unneeded piping. Replace the A/B brake cylinder with the Tichy KC. This will require a minor change to the piping.

Brake rigging can stay the same.

You will need to replace Brake wheel with a vertical Staff. The Tichy set has what you need.

There is probably more to it than that but it will do as a stand-in.

Bill Dixon


Re: Atlas trucks

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 10, 2008, at 1:14 PM, Jon Miller wrote:

I finally received my Atlas trucks that I ordered a long time ago. I
know it was for something ATSF but also I also have the TMW
Bettendorf Swing
Motion for my cabeese. The Atlas trucks are similar but why did I
order
them <VBG>?
There would be a simple answer to this question except that you model
1941, Jon. The Tahoe trucks model the original Bettendorf Swing Motion
design of the 1920s and early 1930s; the Atlas trucks model the later
Swing Motion caboose truck design of the 1940s and '50s, as made by the
Standard Car Truck Co. after they took over Bettendorf's patent. The
later style swing motion truck was used on the wartime (1942-'43) Santa
Fe steel cabooses. But of course you can't model those; all of the
steel cabooses in service in 1941 were built in 1931 or earlier and had
the early style Bettendorf trucks.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Atlas trucks

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 10, 2008, at 1:14 PM, Jon Miller wrote:

I finally received my Atlas trucks that I ordered a long time ago. I
know it was for something ATSF but also I also have the TMW
Bettendorf Swing
Motion for my cabeese. The Atlas trucks are similar but why did I
order
them <VBG>?

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

Richard Hendrickson


Re: On line video of stock pens, yards, and cars

Todd Stearns <toddsyr@...>
 

MANY steam era videos are available for download from the Internet Archives. Cable internet or better should be used, these files are HUGE. Of course, with dialup, you can start the dialup before you go to bed. Something for everyone there.

Todd K. Stearns

----- Original Message -----
From: laramielarry
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 10:48 PM
Subject: [STMFC] On line video of stock pens, yards, and cars


Hi Folks

There is an interesting video about the beef industry on the Internet
Archive website called "Beef Rings the Bell", produced by the Union
Pacific Railroad in the 1960s. With all of the recent posts about
stock cars and the color of cattle chips, I thought some of you might
be interested. The video shows scenes of western ranching, cattle
drives, stock pens, and loading/unloading of cattle cars. I'm not
sure it is entirely within the scope of this list, but on the off-
chance it was produced in 1960, I thought I would alert you anyway.
The stock cars (at least one of which is marked "Livestock Dispatch")
are wood, at any rate, and would have been around during the time
frame of this group.

John Gredig on the DRGW group told us about it.

The link is:
"http://www.archive.org/details/BeefRing1960"

There is a non-railroad follow-up video at:
"http://www.archive.org/details/BeefRing1960_2"

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming





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Re: Information On Kalso Shops Kit

Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

Hi Frank,

Mine went together very easily. I've built a Sylvan version, Kaslo version and a Funaro and Camerlengo version. To be frank, now that they are built, I can't tell which is which any more!

If you develop any specific questions fire away. I was just finishing these around Christmas. The one trick is if you want K brakes instead of AB - in which case you will be where I am - still trying to figure it out!

Rob Kirkham

----- Original Message -----
From: "parkvarieties" <parkvarieties@provide.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 2:09 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Information On Kalso Shops Kit


I just purchased a group of car kits from an individual which includes
a Kelso Shops Distributing resin kit HK-10 for a 1929 CN single sheath
box car, modernized version. I am not familiar with this company
which distributed the kit out of Coquitlam, BC, Canada. Can anyone
advise me on the accuracy of the model, level of detail and any
assembly problems you might have had? Thanks.
Frank Brua


Fw: CPR/CNR RPO'S

Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

Hi Joel,

I went and asked one of the experts for his answer.

Regards,

Rob Kirkham
From Jeff Pinchbeck:

Hi Rob,

Wow, a remarkably simple question that will bring about a terribly long
answer!

There four lettering schemes that may be found on CPR mail or mail express
car during the 1948-1952 time period. Three were found on heavyweight and
wood cars and one on the lightweights. I will assume that we are talking
about heavyweight mail express cars so I can make the reply a bit shorter.

The easiest starting point is to get Black Cat's CPR #4700 Baggage Mail
Express decal set. Order form found at

http://www.greatdecals.com/BlackCat.htm

The diagram in the decal set is for the 1948-1969 lettering scheme where the
car number is centered on the car side.

For this the time period mentioned head end cars were painted CP Tuscan red
with black ends, under carriage and roof.

Between 1948 and 1950 cars were lettered with gold leaf. After 1950
lettering was done in gold-yellow paint. Black Cat sells both metallic gold
and gold-yellow paint (aka. Dulux gold) decals. The transition between
lettering schemes can take several years to turn the whole fleet over so it
is possible to see both during this time. I have seen photos of cars still
in gold leaf as late as 1958.

I can't remember if the decal set lettering diagram has measurements on it.
Car numbers and service type is located 14�" up from the bottom of the side.
That is, you measure from the bottom of the side up to the bottom of the
lettering.

That's two possibilities down...


The Black Cat gold leaf set is also appropriate for the 1926-1948
heavyweight lettering scheme. Car painting is the same as the other
lettering scheme.

The easiest way to demonstrate lettering placement is to go to the CPHA
Library and search for document L-435, which is the lettering diagram for
heavyweight mail express cars built by CC&F in 1923. http://www.cptracks.ca

While the diagram is the 1912-1926 gothic font lettering scheme, lettering
placement is generally correct for the 1926-1948 era with two exceptions:

- The words "Dominion Express" is just "Express".
- Car number is 9" up from the car side and service type is 18". Not 8�"
and 17�" like in the diagram.

I think that's about it.

Jeff Pinchbeck


Re: 1930s train of coal hoppers - video anachronisms?

Pieter Roos
 

Hi Jon;

In addition to the WM hopper and the caboose mentioned by others I'll
note three non-freight car items (risking the wrath of the moderators
in the process). I hope others will correct me if I'm wrong.

1. It seems to me that there would be a lot less greenery between the
tracks. Most steam era photos of high traffic lines show basically
cinders and bare dirt, I suspect that the coal cinders normally spread
between the ballested lines were toxic enough to limit growth, maybe
the steam and ash from the locomotives also had an effect, or the
section crews were more vigilant in pulling weeds. In any case, look
at the Delano photos discussed here recently and you will see very
little plant life around and between the tracks.

2. The water tower atop the building in the second scene looks a bit
too modern to me.

3. In the first scene, the amount of blue paint on signs and building
trim seems unlikely for the era. Blue paints were less stable and
therefore expensive. Factory or warehouse windows would be painted in
greens, red/brown, black or white mostly. John Nehrich used to comment
that modelers should be required to have a special license to use blue
paint on steam era buildings. I don't know if anyone has dis-proven
the idea, but blue paint for industrial structures seems a bit jarring.

Love the layout!

Pieter Roos

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan Grant" <jonagrant@...> wrote:

Hello group.

I've just shot a video of the 1930s hoppers I am currently working on,
as part of the backdating process to the 1930s.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaOzuRTvehk[/url]


Road vehicles excepted (I know they're the wrong period), are there any
glaring anachronisms or mistakes that I need to know about before
showing the layout next month in London (the one in England)

Thanks in advance.

PS - I'm hoping to upgrade to a proper video camera soon, rather than
use my little Canon, so apologies for the quality - and the silly smoke
effects.

Jon


On line video of stock pens, yards, and cars

laramielarry <ostresh@...>
 

Hi Folks

There is an interesting video about the beef industry on the Internet
Archive website called "Beef Rings the Bell", produced by the Union
Pacific Railroad in the 1960s. With all of the recent posts about
stock cars and the color of cattle chips, I thought some of you might
be interested. The video shows scenes of western ranching, cattle
drives, stock pens, and loading/unloading of cattle cars. I'm not
sure it is entirely within the scope of this list, but on the off-
chance it was produced in 1960, I thought I would alert you anyway.
The stock cars (at least one of which is marked "Livestock Dispatch")
are wood, at any rate, and would have been around during the time
frame of this group.

John Gredig on the DRGW group told us about it.

The link is:
"http://www.archive.org/details/BeefRing1960"

There is a non-railroad follow-up video at:
"http://www.archive.org/details/BeefRing1960_2"

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming


Re: 1930s train of coal hoppers - video anachronisms?

mcindoefalls
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Smith" <smithbf@...> wrote:

On Mon, February 11, 2008 8:13 pm, mcindoefalls wrote:

You're right, the WM speed lettering came in the mid 50's. I think
that steel caboose is too new for the 30's, too. IIRC the first ones
were built in the early 40's. You'd probably want a wood caboose.

Walt Lankenau
Walt,

The PRR introduced the all-steel cabin car in 1914 with class N5

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
And Bruce, the Erie built its first steel cabooses of the design shown
in that video around 1941. I should have said, "that Erie steel caboose."

Walt Lankenau



Re: 1930s train of coal hoppers - video anachronisms?

Bruce Smith
 

On Mon, February 11, 2008 8:13 pm, mcindoefalls wrote:

You're right, the WM speed lettering came in the mid 50's. I think
that steel caboose is too new for the 30's, too. IIRC the first ones
were built in the early 40's. You'd probably want a wood caboose.

Walt Lankenau
Walt,

The PRR introduced the all-steel cabin car in 1914 with class N5

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: Cleaning stock cars - was - Re: Re: Adding weight to a stock car

Schuyler Larrabee
 

-----Original Message-----

A friend who grew up during 40s in the small northern Iowa town of
Britt (Hobo Days, still crown Hobo King and Queen).

The Milwaukee would unload feeder cattle from the west. After unloading
the cars were pushed to a siding that was next to an embankment out
east side of town. A man would come and shovel everything out of the
cars. When the pile got too high next to the tracks they would push it
over the embankment.
Clark Propst
Now, that would be some honkin' good compost!

SGL


Re: 1930s train of coal hoppers - video anachronisms?

mcindoefalls
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Pitzer" <scottp459@...> wrote:

I'm sure the billboard italic WESTERN MARYLAND is too modern. (At
least I think that's what I was seeing.)

Scott Pitzer
You're right, the WM speed lettering came in the mid 50's. I think
that steel caboose is too new for the 30's, too. IIRC the first ones
were built in the early 40's. You'd probably want a wood caboose.

Walt Lankenau


Re: Decals for Intermountain FGEX reefer

Bruce Smith
 

On Mon, February 11, 2008 5:39 pm, Martin McGuirk wrote:
I believe Speedwitch has decals specifically designed for these cars
-- I bought a set from Ted at Timonium.

Marty
Folks,

If I remember correctly, Ted had a set specifically for the 12'11" post
war rebuilt cars. These cars were in the FGEX 55000-56999, 57000-58999
and 59000-59999 series. As Bill has noted, the IM car is SUPPOSED to
model these cars. HOWEVER, as I noted here a couple of months ago, these
cars are really 12'9" at the eave (to the top of the roof edge), making
them exactly halfway between the prototypical 12'7" 1928 cars and the
12'11" post war cars. Now, as has been pointed out to me, 2" isn't that
much <G> but the problem becomes, which car you want to represent <VBG>?
If you trim off 2" to model the 12'7" cars, and use the kit as is for the
12'11" cars, then the difference will not be as significant as it should
be.

One could then simply use the Sunshine 12'11" cars for the higher cars,
but there is an even bigger problem there - one that I have never seen
mentioned on this list with the exception of my post before the holidays -
the Sunshine 12'1", 12'7" (and I assume 12'11") cars are a full FOOT too
short in length!! The actual car length is 41', which is correctly
modeled on the IM and Accurail bodies, while the Sunshine bodies are 40
feet long!!!

At Cocoa, Ted indicated that he would eventually be running a FULL FGE set
that would allow many different FGE reefers to be modeled, including the
12'11" cars.

BTW, the PRRPro group (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRRPro) has selected
FGE/BRE/WFE wood reefers for a project that will begin in about 8-9 months
(in order to give folks time to order their Sunshine kits <G>) so feel
free to join us for this project!

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: Question for the truck experts

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Brian Leppert wrote:
And about Bettendorf T-section trucks...
Bettendorf Axle Company's 1907 catalog has many illustrations of T-section sideframes with the stiffening ribs that Tony mentioned.
The illustration I used in my book is from the 1903 CBD.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Question for the truck experts

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 11, 2008, at 3:00 PM, Brian Leppert wrote:

I'm going to stick my neck out and disagree with Richard
Hendrickson. I don't think that the first truck is 70 ton capacity.
I've taken another look at the photo in question and have concluded
that Brian and Bob Karig are correct that the truck is a fifity ton,
not seventy ton, truck. The journal boxes looked like the larger ones
on a seventy ton truck to me, and the air dump car looked like a
seventy ton car as well. But their arguments about the truck spring
arrangement is cogent, and air dump cars of that design were made in
both fifty and seventy ton versions.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: 1930s train of coal hoppers - video anachronisms?

Scott Pitzer
 

I'm sure the billboard italic WESTERN MARYLAND is too modern. (At
least I think that's what I was seeing.)

Scott Pitzer


Re: Decals for Intermountain FGEX reefer

Martin McGuirk <mjmcguirk@...>
 

I believe Speedwitch has decals specifically designed for these cars -- I bought a set from Ted at Timonium.

Marty

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