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Re: 1940s tank car questions

Gene Green <bierglaeser@...>
 

Dad had a Farmall F-12 and later and F-14 both from the 1930s. Both
were started on gasoline and, when warmed up, switched to diesel fuel.
The "gas" tank was in two parts, the larger for diesel. Dad always ran
it on gasoline only.
Gene Green


Re: Atlas trucks

Charlie Vlk
 

The BRC cars were the basis for the Kato "Shorty" cupola caboose in N Scale.
I measured several preserved cars and made scale drawings for the factory.
The two series are different lengths. Both are Morrison "standard" cars that
use common details. A bunch of other railroads had such cars... they could
specify no cupola, cupola, bay window, length, interior arrangements, etc. but
the car construction was standardized.
Kato did the cupola version first, which it turns out, was very close to cars built
for the Cambria & Indiana. The cars were not as popular as I had hoped and the
Transfer and Bay Window versions have not made it to market because of it.
Nice kitbashes of the BRC cars!!!
Charlie Vlk
Railroad Model Resources


Re: ATSF "The Scout" lettering

George Hollwedel
 

Richard,

Do you have enough information from the photos to determine slogan car number assignments?

George

Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@opendoor.com> wrote:
On Feb 15, 2008, at 10:58 AM, Michael Bishop wrote:

Just a note, I have a copy of a photo of Bx48 #274714 taken in May of
1977 still having the "The Chief - Famous Daily Streamliner West". So
it missed any repaint starting 1947 and again in 59.
Yes, for some reason many Bx-48s weren't repainted and restenciled; I
have numerous photos from the late Lee Berglund showing these cars with
original paint and lettering in the late '60s and early '70s.

Richard Hendrickson







Yahoo! Groups Links






Prototype N Scale Models (TM)
by George Hollwedel
310 Loma Verde St
Buda, TX 78610-9785
512-796-6883

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Re: 1940s tank car questions

Perry Scheuerman <perry.scheuerman@...>
 

Ed,
Our 30's vintage John Deere Model D was made to start on gasoline and run on "power fuel" which was more like kerosene than gasoline. Tractor fuel was a special blend made by the refineries. We still made the stuff in the 60's, dyed blue for Nebraska and green for Kansas. I suspect most of the older tractors ran on that stuff. By the 50's new tractors were using gasoline and diesel.
Perry Scheuerman

Mark Plank <tandocrr@mail.com> wrote:
Ed,

To answer one question:
Did farm equipment run on gasoline?
Yes. Not sure when diesel engines became popular in tractors (I'm sure someone tried it shortly after van/von Diesel built his first engine [in the 1880s? I'm away from research information now]), but our first diesel was a Ford 4000 in 1964. Dad had a 1948 Farmall C and a 1952 860 Ford that ran on gas, an earlier tractor was a Ford 9N that used gas. Two Allis-Chalmers C's I used when helping a neighbor while growing up were new in 1930 and used gas - he is still farming with them! In checking out the local parades, most of the "antique" tractors seem to be gas. Not a scientific answer, but in my limited experience, gas prevailed until the past 20 or so years. Our combines also ran on gas both at home and when I was on wheat harvest in 1981.

Mark Plank

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Re: Q about color of EJ&E 1940 twin hopper

Ed Hawkins
 

On Feb 15, 2008, at 4:09 PM, Scott Pitzer wrote:

http://www.columbusrailroads.com/Ralston%201940%20cars.htm

This COR-TEN steel offset hopper built in 1940 would have been black
with white lettering in service, right? I shouldn't pontificate to the
site owner that it's "only a temporary builder photo paint scheme"
without checking with real experts.

Scott Pitzer
Scott,
ACF built identical cars for EJ&E in 1940 numbered 40200-40799. All
cars built at the same time were likely painted the same regardless of
the builder. The ACF bill of materials specifies the cars were coated
with Scully Black Graphite (outside of sides, ends, and bottom).
Stencils were white. The BOM had a paint sample, which was a textured
finish much like very fine emery paper. The color was not pure black,
but rather a very dark gray.

Incidentally, the web site link states these cars were built to the
1935 AAR Alternate Standard design. Not true. These cars were 34'-9"
inside length (not 33' as required by the AAR Standard designs), and
the sides were of a different arrangement than used on AAR Alternate
Standard hopper cars.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: 1940s tank car questions

Andy Laurent <andy.laurent@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "ed_mines" <ed_mines@...> wrote:

Did any customers unload gasoline from a team track or a siding as
they
needed it?

Did farm equipment run on gasoline?

Was tank car utilization greater during the winter when petroleum
couldn't be delivered by water?

Ed
Ed, what locale are you modeling?

In the Midwest, retail fuel dealers (typically called "jobbers")
existed in almost every small town with railroad service. The
shortline I model was only 34 miles long, but had 16 bulk oil dealers
in 1950. They were the most common rail customers for bulk fuels.

One of those dealers was located off-line, but did not use a team
track/truck arrangement for their deliveries. They had 3 vertical
storage tanks along a siding, and would unload the tankcar there
(using standard rack/pumps/piping system) and run their truck to/from
those storage tanks. That would be a great "small footprint" industry
to model...a few tanks (gasoline, fuel oil, maybe diesel), an
unloading stand/rack, and a pump house.

This traffic all but dried up on the A&W between 1952 and 1956 as oil
company terminals switched to trucks for short-haul distribution of
petroleum products. Standard Oil was the exception, as they continued
to send bulk fuel on the 50-mile rail routing.

As for winter tank car utilization...I can only guess. Fuel oil usage
would have been higher in the winter (heating), but gasoline demand
was higher in summer (vacations)...so it may have evened out.

Andy Laurent
modeling the Ahnapee & Western Railway in the early 1950s


Re: Perishable LCL?

John Hile <john66h@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Larry Jackman <Ljack70117@...> wrote:

LCL was a RR's service not a shipper's service. So unless meat was
delivered to the RR's freight house and the RR loaded it into a car
it would not be LCL. There was a service where a shipper shipped a
carload and had it stop and unload part of it. In This service the
shipper paid the freight to the final destination and then paid a
flat fee to stop the car to unload part of it. You had a right to
make two stops.

More from the 1950 Freight Traffic Red Book...

"As peddler-car service is really the granting of a less-than-carload
service on carload freight, it can be accorded only when definitely
provided for in the publications of the carriers. The items which
will be granted such service are shown in the tariffs of the
individual railroads, with the rules and regulations under which the
service will be accorded. The carriers also publish the points at
which peddler-car service will be allowed, the minimum weight, and the
mixtures which will be permitted in the car. The provisions vary
considerably."

Most of the ICC cases referenced regarding rates and peddler-car
practices are from the 'teens, some from the 20's and 30's...to put
things in perspective, relative to railroad operation of the time.

Section 6 of the Perishable Protective Tariff 13 deals with special
rules and charges on perishable freight in less than carloads. I have
scanned this section of the 1944 Tariff, and will post to the file
section for those interested.

It discusses "Scheduled Refrigerator Car Service" and "Box Car
Service" as options a carrier could offer. It also touches on "Meat
Peddler Cars"

John Hile
Blacksburg, VA


New file uploaded to STMFC

STMFC@...
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the STMFC
group.

File : /P P Tariff 13 Section 6.pdf
Uploaded by : john66h <john66h@aol.com>
Description : P P Tariff 13, Section 6

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/P%20P%20Tariff%2013%20Section%206.pdf

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
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Regards,

john66h <john66h@aol.com>


Q about color of EJ&E 1940 twin hopper

Scott Pitzer
 

http://www.columbusrailroads.com/Ralston%201940%20cars.htm

This COR-TEN steel offset hopper built in 1940 would have been black
with white lettering in service, right? I shouldn't pontificate to the
site owner that it's "only a temporary builder photo paint scheme"
without checking with real experts.

Scott Pitzer


Re: Perishable LCL?

Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
 

Posted by: "Jon Miller" > I'm willing to extend my question to include George's question about meat. I see no need to be quite so restrictive on the topic.<

I don't think meat is defined as a perishable. But then I guess it
would depend on the temperature and for how long<G>!
=========================

The NYC freight scheduels referred to perishables. Meat and produce were the most common perishables. Dairy products moving in freight service would also have counted.

The blocking of the two Chicago-New York trains referred to "syracuse and east perishables. East from Syracuse on one of those trains one of the ten blocks was "33rd St. meat".

Later there were two blocks from Blue Island
1. Perishable reice at Wayneport
2. Other Syracuse and east. (which included non reicer perishables)


Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478


Steam era farm equip & trucks (was 1940s tank car questions)

Robert <riverob@...>
 

Semi off-topic, but if you are interested in old farm equipment,
tractors, trucks, engines & generators, etc. check out the 55 acre
Antique Gas & Steam Engine Museum in Vista, California, north of San
Diego.

They have thousands of pieces of equipment plus a large blacksmith
shop, the steam power plant from a Santa Ana, CA sugar refinery,
several steam tractors, a 3-cylinder 14" x 17" FM engine...all
operating. At least on the festival days I've been there. Plus a
large N scale model railroad. LOTS of stuff to see, hear, & smell.
Very pre-OSHA. Plus people who can answer questions on old equipment.

Few people in SoCal even know the museum is here. Well worth a visit.

http://www.agsem.com/about.html

Rob Simpson



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Plank" <tandocrr@...> wrote:

Ed,

To answer one question:
Did farm equipment run on gasoline?
Yes. Not sure when diesel engines became popular in tractors (I'm
sure someone tried it shortly after van/von Diesel built his first
engine [in the 1880s? I'm away from research information now]), but
our first diesel was a Ford 4000 in 1964. Dad had a 1948 Farmall C
and a 1952 860 Ford that ran on gas, an earlier tractor was a Ford 9N
that used gas. Two Allis-Chalmers C's I used when helping a neighbor
while growing up were new in 1930 and used gas - he is still farming
with them! In checking out the local parades, most of the "antique"
tractors seem to be gas. Not a scientific answer, but in my limited
experience, gas prevailed until the past 20 or so years. Our
combines also ran on gas both at home and when I was on wheat harvest
in 1981.

Mark Plank


Re: 1940 CBC Question

Tom Madden <tgmadden@...>
 

Gene Green wrote:

In my copy there is a note at the bottom of page 78 reading, "NOTE -
Next page is numbered 99."
Same here. In the 1937 CBC the skip is from page 96 to page 101, in the
1943 it's from page 79 to page 100, and in the 1946 it's from page 71
to page 100. All with a note similar to what Gene describes.

Tom Madden


Re: 1940s tank car questions

Mark P.
 

Ed,

To answer one question:
Did farm equipment run on gasoline?
Yes. Not sure when diesel engines became popular in tractors (I'm sure someone tried it shortly after van/von Diesel built his first engine [in the 1880s? I'm away from research information now]), but our first diesel was a Ford 4000 in 1964. Dad had a 1948 Farmall C and a 1952 860 Ford that ran on gas, an earlier tractor was a Ford 9N that used gas. Two Allis-Chalmers C's I used when helping a neighbor while growing up were new in 1930 and used gas - he is still farming with them! In checking out the local parades, most of the "antique" tractors seem to be gas. Not a scientific answer, but in my limited experience, gas prevailed until the past 20 or so years. Our combines also ran on gas both at home and when I was on wheat harvest in 1981.

Mark Plank

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Re: 1940s tank car questions

boyds1949 <E27ca@...>
 

A neighbor purchased a diesel Farmall "M" (like the Sunshine kit) in
1948 but that was quite unusual. Allis Chalmers did not indroduce a
diesel farm tractor until 1953 or 54.

In Maryland, the same distributers who provided gasoline to filling
stations also provided gasoline and, later, diesel fuel to farmers.
When "modern" electric pumps were installed at the local gas
stations, the old hand crank jobs were recycled as farm pumps. When
the gasoline station pumps were replaced with more modern versions,
the older electric pumps were installed on the farm tanks.

John King

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, water.kresse@... wrote:

I would guess that the late-1940s, post-WW2 era was a transition
time between gas and diesel fuel for running larger farm equipment.
Little Ford and Farmall "estate" and "quarter-section farm" tractors
stayed gas feed for some time. Wouldn't a local coal yard keep fuels
of various types? When did they start distributing home heating oil
and running big trucks around to houses and farms? Dad pulled out
the coal fired furnace in the very early-50s.

Al Kresse

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "ed_mines" <ed_mines@...>
Did any customers unload gasoline from a team track or a siding as
they
needed it?

Did farm equipment run on gasoline?

Was tank car utilization greater during the winter when petroleum
couldn't be delivered by water?

Ed




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: WANTED: Branchline Trains Postwar AAR Boxcar Kit (Original Tooling)

Andy Carlson
 

Hi,
I have a few of these if you have not yet found one. $6.00, plus shipping if interested.
-Andy

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
Anyone want to get rid of one of these kits? I need one for a science
project, and yes, I know the length is incorrect. Please contact me
off-list to work out the details.

Ben Hom


Re: 1940 CBC Question

Gene Green <bierglaeser@...>
 

In my copy there is a note at the bottom of page 78 reading, "NOTE -
Next page is numbered 99."

Gene Green


Re: Perishable LCL?

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Lindsay Smith wrote:
The photos show sides hanging from overhead racks.
Yes, in true "meat cars" there was a grid of overhead rails from which meat hooks could hold sides or quarters of animals.
But the "peddler" or "route" car was typically not carrying meat of that kind, but cuts of meat and packaged meat, such as sausages. Note in the car list that Clark Propst provided, that very few of the reporting marks are for true "meat cars," but are general-service reefers. These were NOT equipped for sides of meat.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Perishable LCL?

W. Lindsay Smith <wlindsays2000@...>
 

In regard to meat, IIRC, it is aged at 57 degrees F for 30 days o4 57
degress F for 30 days. If meat is not hanged, it is tough (Bully
Beef). The mountain men ate the "lights" (liver and kidney)and the
back strap. The CA Missions shipped hides and tallow. Most of the
rest was wasted. So the time in RY transit is aging time. The
photos show sides hanging from overhead racks. Hardr work!
Lindsay Smith

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Miller" <atsf@...> wrote:

are far superior in produce freshness and quality than the
supermarkets.<

Something to do with vine ripened and non-hybrid or something
like
that<VBG>!
As to meat being a perishable item. I seem to remember that
beef was
aged at a relative high temperature (40 degrees??) so a long time
in a iced
reefer wouldn't be a problem. Does anyone remember the time, 30
days--60
days?????????

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: 1940s tank car questions

water.kresse@...
 

I would guess that the late-1940s, post-WW2 era was a transition time between gas and diesel fuel for running larger farm equipment. Little Ford and Farmall "estate" and "quarter-section farm" tractors stayed gas feed for some time. Wouldn't a local coal yard keep fuels of various types? When did they start distributing home heating oil and running big trucks around to houses and farms? Dad pulled out the coal fired furnace in the very early-50s.

Al Kresse

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "ed_mines" <ed_mines@yahoo.com>
Did any customers unload gasoline from a team track or a siding as they
needed it?

Did farm equipment run on gasoline?

Was tank car utilization greater during the winter when petroleum
couldn't be delivered by water?

Ed


Re: Perishable LCL?

Jerry <jrs060@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Miller" <atsf@...> wrote:
" As to meat being a perishable item. I seem to remember that
beef was
aged at a relative high temperature (40 degrees??) so a long time
in a iced
reefer wouldn't be a problem."

Jon, you are way off here, now it is true that beef is aged
in several different ways to get a great steak, but it is not in
a meat refrigerator car!
Some of the hottest stuff we ever handled in the Chicago
Terminal was cars of swinging beef carcasses destine for eastern
trunk lines like the NKP, NYC, B&O, etc. The midwestern roads
and the Chicago belt lines had schedules, cut off times, and
crews and locomotives waiting for the cars to arrive in Chicago.
The beef halfs were very sensitive to shrinkage and weight loss
in the car, and nobody wanted the damage claims from this. The
intermediate carriers,IHB,BRC,and the B&OCT, had to make the
eastern roads outbound schedules to avoid having the car for
an extra day in Chicago. This stuff was way hotter than
vegetables. In railroad terms it was a "SEE NO FAILURE TOO
MAKE CONNECTION" commodity.

Regards, Jerry Stewart

Woodstock, Illinois

"It's 106 miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas,
half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark and we're wearing
sunglasses------Hit it!

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