Date   

Re: Call for Coming Events/Cocoa Beach Shake and Take

Paul Lyons
 

Hi Greg,



I did not sign the sheet for decals in Cocoa Beach. I obviously need?a set. If I need to buy them at this time, no problem. What is my best course od action?



Paul Lyons

-----Original Message-----
From: tgregmrtn@aol.com
To: PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com; stmfc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 10:28 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Call for Coming Events/Cocoa Beach Shake and Take







Rob and all,

I just finished taking with Jim Singer and he is mailing the Decals for the PRR X45 kits out as I write this. So if you were there and signed the sheet you should see them I would imagine by Monday.

Jim Singer DBA 5th Ave Car Shop will have this decal sheet available separtely for sale. The sheet will do two cars, albeit one in the Circle Keystone/Ball Keystone scheme as well as one in?the last PRR scheme the Plain Keystone paint scheme. He also has a separate sheet sheet of only Ball/Circle Keystones available as well. The X45 boxcar set is $6.00 and I beleive the Circle/Ball Keystone sheet will be at $5.00 per. More details and?scans on the seets will be in the next TKM. the sets will be limited editions, and again more details in TKM.

Greg Martin ??

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Gross <betazeta144@yahoo.com>
To: PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 3:18 pm
Subject: [PRR-Modeling] Re: Call for Coming Events

Thanks Greg. I will check it out.

Rob

--- In PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com, TGREGMRTN@... wrote:

Rob,

There is an online article/magazine (not quite what TKM, B&O, and
SCL have put together) on the C&O website. There is some interesting
stuff there as well.


Greg Martin
__________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com







________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com


Re: oil for roads

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

The city where I live used to oil the unpaved streets each summer. The
oil came in tank cars. The city had a holding tank for the stuff. They
would apply oil then cover it with sand (or something like it). Was a
mess for awhile, nasty on cars, worse on bike riders without
fenders...me at the time, well into the 70s.
Clark Propst


Re: oil for roads

Bruce Smith
 

On Feb 19, 2008, at 10:33 AM, ed_mines wrote:

There was a big, black topped playground behind the Y I went to as a
kid.

There were pools of "tar" that used to bubble in the heat of the summer.

I liked to pop those bubbles; lighter fluid would take off the "tar".

Roofing tar has to be melted (I think the tar used on roads has to be
too).

Was this black material that melted on a hot day the oil that was used
to keep down dust on roads?
Ed,
As you say, you are talking about tar, not oil. Both were used to coat road surfaces in the steam era. Oil is fluid at ambient temperatures and often what was used was waste oil. One unfortunate example of this is used transformer oil with PCBs. Tar is usually NOT fluid at ambient temperatures and must be heated to be used. Thus, oil can be carried in an uninsulated tank car, while liquid tar requires an insulated tank car, preferably with heater coils to reheat the tar upon arrival.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
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__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
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| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


oil for roads

ed_mines
 

There was a big, black topped playground behind the Y I went to as a
kid.

There were pools of "tar" that used to bubble in the heat of the summer.

I liked to pop those bubbles; lighter fluid would take off the "tar".

Roofing tar has to be melted (I think the tar used on roads has to be
too).

Was this black material that melted on a hot day the oil that was used
to keep down dust on roads?

Ed


Re: Towing "loops"?

water.kresse@...
 

I believe Henry Ford had Model T's running between tracks to switch FCs on the DT&I. Pulling a rope is more stable than pushing a long stick. You can still do something stupid pulling . . . . cables whip back when they break. We had a kid killed by a cable break on a tank recovery vehicle down at Ft Knox.

Al Kresse

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "rockroll50401" <cepropst@netconx.net>
"Roping Staple".

Learn something new everyday. Where I work they were called pulling
loops. Used in conjunction with 'car pullers'. I wish I could remember
when this practice was ended where I work. I'm guessing it was in the
80s.
Clark Propst


Re: Towing "loops"?

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

"Roping Staple".

Learn something new everyday. Where I work they were called pulling
loops. Used in conjunction with 'car pullers'. I wish I could remember
when this practice was ended where I work. I'm guessing it was in the
80s.
Clark Propst


Re: 1940s tank car questions

John Hile <john66h@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "al_brown03" <abrown@...> wrote:

That gives the impression -- correct me if I've misunderstood --
that one couldn't back a gasoline tank *truck* up to a tank *car*: the
consignee's storage tank had to be permanent.

That was my interpretation as well.

But, having said that, Rule 1 of the same publication seems to allow
for carriers and consignors to ship items "not subject" to the
provisions of the Official Classification, yet still "limited only as
provided by common law and by the laws of the United States and of the
several States in so far as they apply,..." and "not inconsistent with
such common carrier's liability,..." Rule 1 seems to be geared toward
allowing alternate rates when items are not sent subject to the
Official Classification. Whether that includes the ability to avoid
the restrictions of Rule 35, I do not know.

From a legal standpoint, adhering to Rule 35 certainly makes sense for
the carrier, as it would greatly reduce their liability by eliminating
the handling on their property of certain (most?) volatile petroleum
products. Also, providing for the appropriate facilities at a team
track my not be economically attractive for any given carrier...fire
protection, spill containment, steam heat, pump maintenance, car
grounding, etc.

The "Petroleum or Petroleum Products" listed in the rating section of
the Official Classification are:
Belt Oil
Benzine
Crude Oil
Cordage Oil
Felt Oil
Floor Oil
Fuel Oil
Gas Oil
Gas, Liquefied
Gasoline
Harness Oil
Leather Oil
Miners' Oil
Miners' Oil Stock
Naphtha
Naphtha Distillate
Neatsfoot Oil
Paint Oil
Putty Oil
Refined Oil Distillate
Refined Oil, illuminating or burning
Soap Oil
Tanner's Oil
Tobacco Oil
Transformer Oil
Wool Oil
Oil, N.O.I.B.N (Not Otherwise Indexed By Name)
Grease, Axle
Grease, Lubricating, other than Axle Grease
Grease, N.O.I.B.N
Lubricating Oil


John Hile
Blacksburg, VA


Re: Towing "loops"?

Scott Pitzer
 

To represent the simplest common type, I use Detail Associates "Alco
Lift Rings."
Of course, you can wrap brass wire around a drill bit just as well.


Re: newby

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Eddie:

Welcome. You will find members of this group to be among the most knowledgeable anywhere about freight cars, and are ready to share what they know. Generally we are pretty nice folks, though one or two can be a bit pithy. I suggest you wander through our archives, since your questions may have been discussed before (they've never worked well for me!), and you might be directed there rather than reposting all the same information.

I don't know as much as I would like to about the D&RGW, but I am a fan of the Western Pacific. Since there was once joint ownership of these lines, and cooperation for many years thereafter, I may be able to help you with some questions.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Eddie Stavleu wrote:

To all group members

Thanks for letting me join your group
I live in Australia and model the D&RGW RR as close as possible, for some 30 years..
I am afraid I will have questions and probably no answers for you.

Thank you all.

Eddie Stavleu
Brisbane Australia.

" There is no known cure for an obsession with trains " Anon 1989.



Re: Towing "loops"?

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Mike Brock wrote:
Armand Premo pointed out to me recently that certain box cars had a "towing loop" on the side of the car between the bolster and the car's end at the bottom of the side.
They were mostly used for car-pulling equipment at shipper or receiver sidings, and could be used in switching too. They date back to Harriman freight cars on SP and UP in the form of metal castings at bolster ends.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: 1940s tank car questions

boyds1949 <E27ca@...>
 

I know this does not answer Al's question. The rule cited below in
John Hile's message apparantly lasted through our era. The 1972
Uniform Freight Classification still had virtually the same rule (the
working was slightly different). The later rule refers to "asphalt
or tar" instead of "road oil" and there is no mention of fuel oil.
The ratings for commodities such as gasoline specifically referred to
Rule 35.

John King


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "al_brown03" <abrown@...> wrote:

That gives the impression -- correct me if I've misunderstood --
that
one couldn't back a gasoline tank *truck* up to a tank *car*: the
consignee's storage tank had to be permanent. The exception for
road
oil is crystal clear (a strange term to use in connection with this
commodity!), and in fact the Rutland had numerous team tracks to
which road oil was delivered (per Nimke's books). Fuel oil too, eh?
I
take it they mean the heavy stuff, and I'll have to look it up.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "John Hile" <john66h@> wrote:

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "ed_mines" <ed_mines@> wrote:

Did any customers unload gasoline from a team track or a siding
as
they needed it?
FWIW, here is the text of Rule 35, Section 8, from a 1925 La Salle
Consolidated Freight Classification book...

"Inflammable Liquids having a flash point lower than 200 degrees
Fahrenheit, including Petroleum and Petroleum Products, other than
Fuel or Road Oil, in tank cars, must not be shipped and will not
be
delivered unless consigned to parties accepting delivery on
private
sidings, equipped with facilities for piping the liquid from tank
cars
to permanent storage tanks, or consigned to parties accepting
delivery
from Railroad Sidings where facilities exist for piping the liquid
from tank cars to permanent storage tanks."

John Hile
Blacksburg, VA


Re: Towing "loops"?

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 18, 2008, at 5:35 PM, Mike Brock wrote:

Armand Premo pointed out to me recently that certain box cars had a
"towing
loop" on the side of the car between the bolster and the car's end at
the
bottom of the side. This "loop" appears to be of steel and is
constructed so
that if one dropped a metal rod perpendicular to the track, it would
go
through the loop....
Towing loops were quite common on steam era freight cars, and some
railroads specified their application to all new or rebuilt cars. For
example, you'll see them on the side sills near the bolsters on all NYC
steel box cars. Sometimes they were mounted vertically under the side
sills instead of horizontally. Their purpose was to provide an
attachment point for the cable-and-winch arrangements which were widely
used at industrial spurs and team tracks to move cars into position for
loading and unloading. When there were no towing loops (also called
towing staples), the hooks on the cables were attached to any
convenient place on the car (e,g, sill steps, ladder stiles), which was
an open invitation to damage.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Towing "loops"?

Richard Dermody <ddermody@...>
 

Mike,

According to the "Dictionary of Car Terms", 1940 CBC, it's a "Roping Staple".

"Roping Staple. A U-bolt, special casting or forging secured to the side sill near the end of the car into which the hook of a switching rope may be caught, so that a switching locomotive can pull cars on side tracks while it is on the main track or vice versa."

Dick

On Feb 18, 2008, at 8:35 PM, Mike Brock wrote:

Armand Premo pointed out to me recently that certain box cars had a "towing
loop" on the side of the car between the bolster and the car's end at the
bottom of the side. This "loop" appears to be of steel and is constructed so
that if one dropped a metal rod perpendicular to the track, it would go
through the loop. MK&T cars...series 77501-78000 and 95000-96000 appear to
have these attached, photos showing 77780 [ 1946 ], 96656 [ 1964 ], 95045
[ 1949 ] have them. The model of these cars provided by Speedwitch does
include the boltheads used to attach these "loops" and Ted modeled them but
he does not appear to address them in the instructions or the RMC article on
the cars [ July 2007 ]. In addition, several other cars do exhibit "loops"
including USRA steel cars Reading 10246, B&A 50312, CNJ alternate ARA 19029,
PM 82450, Erie modified '23 ARA 76012 and NKP 26174. However, MK&T cars
77882 and 95271 shown on pgs 36 and 37 of Richard's Focus in Freight Cars
clearly do not show them in the late '30's so they appear to have been add
on's. Any thoughts on these?

Mike Brock




Yahoo! Groups Links



Re: Towing "loops"?

Tom Palmer
 

Mike and the group,
The Katy boxcars were not originally built with the towing loops. These were added during the shopping done to the cars during WW2. On the Katy they allowed the grain elevator operators to pull the cars for loading. The loops were located at the height where I have seen car pulling equipment mounted at the elevators here in Texas and in Oklahoma. Rice growing area on the Houston line and wheat growing area on the Northwestern District.
Regards,
Tom Palmer - Modeling the Katy in Texas in the year 1952

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Brock
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 2/18/2008 7:35:40 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Towing "loops"?


Armand Premo pointed out to me recently that certain box cars had a "towing
loop" on the side of the car between the bolster and the car's end at the
bottom of the side. This "loop" appears to be of steel and is constructed so
that if one dropped a metal rod perpendicular to the track, it would go
through the loop. MK&T cars...series 77501-78000 and 95000-96000 appear to
have these attached, photos showing 77780 [ 1946 ], 96656 [ 1964 ], 95045
[ 1949 ] have them. The model of these cars provided by Speedwitch does
include the boltheads used to attach these "loops" and Ted modeled them but
he does not appear to address them in the instructions or the RMC article on
the cars [ July 2007 ]. In addition, several other cars do exhibit "loops"
including USRA steel cars Reading 10246, B&A 50312, CNJ alternate ARA 19029,
PM 82450, Erie modified '23 ARA 76012 and NKP 26174. However, MK&T cars
77882 and 95271 shown on pgs 36 and 37 of Richard's Focus in Freight Cars
clearly do not show them in the late '30's so they appear to have been add
on's. Any thoughts on these?

Mike Brock


newby

Eddie Stavleu <eddiestavleu@...>
 

To all group members

Thanks for letting me join your group
I live in Australia and model the D&RGW RR as close as possible, for some 30 years..
I am afraid I will have questions and probably no answers for you.

Thank you all.

Eddie Stavleu
Brisbane Australia.

" There is no known cure for an obsession with trains " Anon 1989.


For Sale items

Rob Sarberenyi <espeef5@...>
 

I have several items listed on eBay that may be of interest
http://stores.ebay.com/Espee-F-5

Also, I'm out-of-town until Friday. If you have questions about something,
please be patient for me to answer best as I can remotely.

Thanks for looking!


Rob Sarberenyi
espeef5@pacbell.net


Towing "loops"?

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Armand Premo pointed out to me recently that certain box cars had a "towing loop" on the side of the car between the bolster and the car's end at the bottom of the side. This "loop" appears to be of steel and is constructed so that if one dropped a metal rod perpendicular to the track, it would go through the loop. MK&T cars...series 77501-78000 and 95000-96000 appear to have these attached, photos showing 77780 [ 1946 ], 96656 [ 1964 ], 95045 [ 1949 ] have them. The model of these cars provided by Speedwitch does include the boltheads used to attach these "loops" and Ted modeled them but he does not appear to address them in the instructions or the RMC article on the cars [ July 2007 ]. In addition, several other cars do exhibit "loops" including USRA steel cars Reading 10246, B&A 50312, CNJ alternate ARA 19029, PM 82450, Erie modified '23 ARA 76012 and NKP 26174. However, MK&T cars 77882 and 95271 shown on pgs 36 and 37 of Richard's Focus in Freight Cars clearly do not show them in the late '30's so they appear to have been add on's. Any thoughts on these?

Mike Brock


February Podcast Now Available

smason22000 <smason2@...>
 

Hi folks,

The February Scotty Mason Show Podcast has just been released. This month we interview
John Olson and George Sellios. To listen, just go to the podcast website:
www.modelrailroadpodcast.com or you can subscribe to the Podcast through the I-Tunes
store.

Scott Mason
scottymason.com


Re: 1940s tank car questions

al_brown03
 

That gives the impression -- correct me if I've misunderstood -- that
one couldn't back a gasoline tank *truck* up to a tank *car*: the
consignee's storage tank had to be permanent. The exception for road
oil is crystal clear (a strange term to use in connection with this
commodity!), and in fact the Rutland had numerous team tracks to
which road oil was delivered (per Nimke's books). Fuel oil too, eh? I
take it they mean the heavy stuff, and I'll have to look it up.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "John Hile" <john66h@...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "ed_mines" <ed_mines@> wrote:

Did any customers unload gasoline from a team track or a siding as
they needed it?
FWIW, here is the text of Rule 35, Section 8, from a 1925 La Salle
Consolidated Freight Classification book...

"Inflammable Liquids having a flash point lower than 200 degrees
Fahrenheit, including Petroleum and Petroleum Products, other than
Fuel or Road Oil, in tank cars, must not be shipped and will not be
delivered unless consigned to parties accepting delivery on private
sidings, equipped with facilities for piping the liquid from tank
cars
to permanent storage tanks, or consigned to parties accepting
delivery
from Railroad Sidings where facilities exist for piping the liquid
from tank cars to permanent storage tanks."

John Hile
Blacksburg, VA


Re: 1940s tank car questions

John Hile <john66h@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "ed_mines" <ed_mines@...> wrote:

Did any customers unload gasoline from a team track or a siding as
they needed it?
FWIW, here is the text of Rule 35, Section 8, from a 1925 La Salle
Consolidated Freight Classification book...

"Inflammable Liquids having a flash point lower than 200 degrees
Fahrenheit, including Petroleum and Petroleum Products, other than
Fuel or Road Oil, in tank cars, must not be shipped and will not be
delivered unless consigned to parties accepting delivery on private
sidings, equipped with facilities for piping the liquid from tank cars
to permanent storage tanks, or consigned to parties accepting delivery
from Railroad Sidings where facilities exist for piping the liquid
from tank cars to permanent storage tanks."

John Hile
Blacksburg, VA

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