Date   

Re: tools for building freight cars sorta of close to topic

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Jon Miller wrote:
I do have a question for Tony however. As these screwdrivers usually have a cheap steel blade is there any way to harden them?
Yes, you're right, they use a much lower-carbon steel. But hardening them without grossly embrittling them is an exacting process, and in any case will have limitations. Trust me on this <g>.

Anthony Thompson
Dept. of Materials Science & Engineering
University of California, Berkeley
thompsonmarytony@...


Re: 6 Dome wine tank cars

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Jon Miller wrote:
I was a metal kit for one (Thomas?) in a couple of paint schemes. The kit had a smaller tank (6K?) but also many things wrong with it. They show up on ebay occasionally and usually get a good price (40-50 range).
Jon, you are right that some aspects of the Thomas cars are crude--grab irons, underframe details--but the TANKS and the DOMES are quite good proportions. I have re-detailed several of them as a result, because there is no straightforward alternative. I have snapped them up at railroadiana shows for just this reason . . . but sure never paid $40+ for one!!

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Tank Car Unloading was: oil for roads

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

No, I'll have to have my friend tell me again. He has a memory like
an elephant!
Clark 'third hand story teller' Propst


--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Clark Propst wrote:
Steve, My friend who grew up in Britt IA uncle ran an oil
dealership.
As I remember his story his uncle would put a pipe into the dome.
That
pipe was connected with hose to the pump.
Clark, do you know any reason he didn't just use the bottom
outlet?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: tools for building freight cars sorta of close to topic

devansprr
 

I do have a question for Tony however. As these screwdrivers
usually
have a cheap steel blade is there any way to harden them?
Home Depot carries a set by Rigid Tools - I bought one for computer
and telescope work. Appear to be hardened. Very nice, although not in
the $3 range. Think I paid around $12 for the three smallest phillips
(down to 000) and two very small flats.

Dave Evans


Re: 6 Dome wine tank cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 22, 2008, at 6:39 AM, Garth G. Groff wrote:

I think you are going to discover that the tank is too large, and
maybe
the expansion domes are as well. IIRC, AHM's original tank car was a
knock-off of the oversized Athearn 3-dome tank car. Later the frame
and
bottom sheet tooling were reused to make more oversized "models" of
certain other tank cars, including the 6-dome wine cars. Back in those
days, almost nobody noticed or cared. The AHM car should dimension out
to around 11,000 U.S. gallons, which is probably way too large for the
real wine cars (likely around 8,000 U.S. gallons).
All true, and wine tank cars were actually about 6,000 gals. capacity,
so the AHM model is close to twice the size of its intended prototype.
Calling it a "stand-in" is excessively kind.

Richard Hendrickson


Roco/AHM Freight Cars, was Re: 6 Dome wine tank cars

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Carl J. Marsico asked:
"It's my understanding that AHM imported these cars from Roco with an
array of "Minitanks" loads for a short period of time, well before I
was born. Did Roco continue making these flats after AHM
discontinued them/went out of business?"

Yes. Walthers imported the models under the Roco name for a time
during the 1990s.


Ben Hom


Re: Tank Car Unloading was: oil for roads

ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:
Clark, do you know any reason he didn't just use the bottom
outlet?

My guess is that those bottom valves weren't easy open to prevent
thieves and vandals from opening them.

The small size of the outlet would slow down emptying the tank by
gravity should it be opened. Thicker liquids would be even slower to
drain. Even with a pump it would take much longer to empty the car
compared to pumping from the dome.

Ed


Re: Roco/AHM Freight Cars, was Re: 6 Dome wine tank cars

Carl J. Marsico <Carlmarsico@...>
 

There are some Roco/AHM freight cars out there that are the basis for some pretty nice models:

http://www.pbase.com/dh30973/image/88111993

It's my understanding that AHM imported these cars from Roco with an a array of "Minitanks" loads for a short period of time, well before I was born. Did Roco continue making these flats after AHM discontinued them/went out of business?

Carl J. Marsico

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...> wrote:
Thanks Garth, but I'm not the one looking at modeling these cars - I just
posted out of curiousity.

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Garth G. Groff
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: 6 Dome wine tank cars

Kurt,

I think you are going to discover that the tank is too large, and maybe
the expansion domes are as well. IIRC, AHM's original tank car was a
knock-off of the oversized Athearn 3-dome tank car. Later the frame and
bottom sheet tooling were reused to make more oversized "models" of
certain other tank cars, including the 6-dome wine cars. Back in those
days, almost nobody noticed or cared. The AHM car should dimension out
to around 11,000 U.S. gallons, which is probably way too large for the
real wine cars (likely around 8,000 U.S. gallons). If you check Jim
Eager's D&RGW book (you do have this book don't you?), you will find a
photo of the water car you mentioned earlier. I don't have my copy at
had, but Jim usually gives the facts like the capacity in his text. If
you don't have this book, let me know and I will check for you next
week. In short, your car is probably going to be a stand-in, and if you
don't mind, that's fine.

By the way, I seem to recall that this tank fit the Athearn frame and
bottom sheet. Even though it will still be a "stand-in", the Athearn
parts are much better than the AHM, and will have the advantage of
coupler draft gear mounted on the frame instead of "taglo" trucks.

Kind regards,

Garth G. Groff

Kurt Laughlin wrote:
Now I realize these are "train set" cars, but what I've read says that the
biggest problem with them is the fact that they are uninsulated. The AHM
car I got with my set back in '72 or so *is* insulated, so I wonder if
that
makes them closer to something?

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson

Eddie Stavleu wrote:

I have the HO Roco cars that will do me for these. D&RGW had one as a
water car for MOW
If these are only stand-in or "fun" cars, the Roco ones are fine,
but be aware they are not even close to a prototype.


Re: 6 Dome wine tank cars

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

I was a metal kit for one (Thomas?) in a couple of paint schemes. The kit had a smaller tank (6K?) but also many things wrong with it. They show up on ebay occasionally and usually get a good price (40-50 range).

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Renting of freight cars to the Yakima Valley Transportation Co.

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

I did a quick analysis on Richard Wilkens' spreadsheet and uploaded an
updated copy to the group Files section. The PRR cars are broken out
on the second sheet, with links to Rob Schoenberg's online equipment
diagrams to illustrate these cars. I also did some minor formatting to
make the spreadsheets print out more neatly.

Some overall notes:
- To reflect the organization of the Pennsy system at the time, I split
out the cars between PRR and Lines West. (The ORERs of the period had
separate listings for both.)
- Unless otherwise noted, PRR "Lines East" cars belonged to PRR.
The "Lines East" listings showed which predecessor road owned the cars;
Lines West did not make that distinction. Ownership initials were
stenciled on cars painted in NK3 at the lower left corner of the car
side below the car class and built date. This practice continued into
the 1960s; ownership initials can be found to the right of the car
class for cars painted in CK and later paint schemes.)
- As expected, Class XL boxcars made up the largest single group of
cars; however, there were a few surprises, including Class XG and XH
truss rod boxcars that survived WWI, a Class X25 express boxcar, and a
new Class X26 USRA single sheathed boxcar.


Ben Hom


Re: 6 Dome wine tank cars

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

Thanks Garth, but I'm not the one looking at modeling these cars - I just posted out of curiousity.

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Garth G. Groff
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: 6 Dome wine tank cars


Kurt,

I think you are going to discover that the tank is too large, and maybe
the expansion domes are as well. IIRC, AHM's original tank car was a
knock-off of the oversized Athearn 3-dome tank car. Later the frame and
bottom sheet tooling were reused to make more oversized "models" of
certain other tank cars, including the 6-dome wine cars. Back in those
days, almost nobody noticed or cared. The AHM car should dimension out
to around 11,000 U.S. gallons, which is probably way too large for the
real wine cars (likely around 8,000 U.S. gallons). If you check Jim
Eager's D&RGW book (you do have this book don't you?), you will find a
photo of the water car you mentioned earlier. I don't have my copy at
had, but Jim usually gives the facts like the capacity in his text. If
you don't have this book, let me know and I will check for you next
week. In short, your car is probably going to be a stand-in, and if you
don't mind, that's fine.

By the way, I seem to recall that this tank fit the Athearn frame and
bottom sheet. Even though it will still be a "stand-in", the Athearn
parts are much better than the AHM, and will have the advantage of
coupler draft gear mounted on the frame instead of "taglo" trucks.

Kind regards,

Garth G. Groff

Kurt Laughlin wrote:
Now I realize these are "train set" cars, but what I've read says that the
biggest problem with them is the fact that they are uninsulated. The AHM
car I got with my set back in '72 or so *is* insulated, so I wonder if that
makes them closer to something?

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson

Eddie Stavleu wrote:

I have the HO Roco cars that will do me for these. D&RGW had one as a
water car for MOW
If these are only stand-in or "fun" cars, the Roco ones are fine,
but be aware they are not even close to a prototype.


New file uploaded to STMFC

STMFC@...
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the STMFC
group.

File : /YVT Car Rentals 1917 to 1920 (Hom edit) 2-22-2008.xls
Uploaded by : benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
Description : PRR Car Analysis plus minor reformatting for printing

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/YVT%20Car%20Rentals%201917%20to%201920%20%28Hom%20edit%29%202-22-2008.xls

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.htmlfiles

Regards,

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>


Re: 6 Dome wine tank cars

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Kurt,

I think you are going to discover that the tank is too large, and maybe the expansion domes are as well. IIRC, AHM's original tank car was a knock-off of the oversized Athearn 3-dome tank car. Later the frame and bottom sheet tooling were reused to make more oversized "models" of certain other tank cars, including the 6-dome wine cars. Back in those days, almost nobody noticed or cared. The AHM car should dimension out to around 11,000 U.S. gallons, which is probably way too large for the real wine cars (likely around 8,000 U.S. gallons). If you check Jim Eager's D&RGW book (you do have this book don't you?), you will find a photo of the water car you mentioned earlier. I don't have my copy at had, but Jim usually gives the facts like the capacity in his text. If you don't have this book, let me know and I will check for you next week. In short, your car is probably going to be a stand-in, and if you don't mind, that's fine.

By the way, I seem to recall that this tank fit the Athearn frame and bottom sheet. Even though it will still be a "stand-in", the Athearn parts are much better than the AHM, and will have the advantage of coupler draft gear mounted on the frame instead of "taglo" trucks.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Kurt Laughlin wrote:

Now I realize these are "train set" cars, but what I've read says that the biggest problem with them is the fact that they are uninsulated. The AHM car I got with my set back in '72 or so *is* insulated, so I wonder if that makes them closer to something?

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson

Eddie Stavleu wrote:

I have the HO Roco cars that will do me for these. D&RGW had one as a
water car for MOW
If these are only stand-in or "fun" cars, the Roco ones are fine,
but be aware they are not even close to a prototype.


Re: SFRD Fan-Equipped Rr-30 RH Side Lettering

John Hile <john66h@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
wrote:

John, by early 1953 the mechanical fans originally fitted to SFRD
37365-37389 had been replaced with electric fans, and other cars in the
Rr-30 class had also received electric fans. I have a photo of SFRD
37315 with electric fans installed (and black-painted side hardware)
which I could scan for you if it would be useful.
Interesting. I had been working from info in the Jan. 1953 ORER that
listed 37365-37389 as the only fan equipped Rr-30's. Do you have any
info letting me know the time period over which the conversion to
electric fans took place? The point being, I would like to include
both a mechanical fan Rr-30 and a yellow-orange hardware Rr-30 on my
roster if it is appropriate for my modeling window of mid '52 to mid '53.

The SFMO Reefer Book (p. 215) has a photo of 37374 with what appear to
be the original mechanical fans, and a shop date of 4/50. I'm
wondering if a car such as this could have kept its mech. fans into
the second half of '52.

Sounds, however, like a car being shopped in early '53 and receiving
the yellow-orange hardware scheme would also receive the electric fans
at that time...if it had not received them already?

I appreciate the offer for the scan of 37315, but I may already have
the published version, if it is the Chet McCoid/Bob's RH-side shot in
1957. Since 37315 has a blk hardware scheme and electric fans, is it
appropriate to assume electric fan installations to previous non-fan
cars occurred as early as '47? Or, merely that the conversions could
occur without repainting the car?

Thanks in Advance,

John Hile
Blacksburg, VA


Re: 6 Dome wine tank cars

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

Now I realize these are "train set" cars, but what I've read says that the biggest problem with them is the fact that they are uninsulated. The AHM car I got with my set back in '72 or so *is* insulated, so I wonder if that makes them closer to something?

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson

Eddie Stavleu wrote:
I have the HO Roco cars that will do me for these. D&RGW had one as a
water car for MOW
If these are only stand-in or "fun" cars, the Roco ones are fine,
but be aware they are not even close to a prototype.


Re: 6 Dome wine tank cars

Eddie Stavleu <eddiestavleu@...>
 

Tony,

Beggars can't be choosers, I know that they are not 100% but then.
No one will know here in Australia and if they do then they need to give me
where they got the info from.

Question, Do you have any photos in color of the said cars ?
Preferably with the wine names on them.

Thanks
Eddie Stavleu.




If these are only stand-in or "fun" cars, the Roco ones are fine,
but be aware they are not even close to a prototype.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA

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Re: Tank Car Unloading was: oil for roads

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Clark Propst wrote:
Steve, My friend who grew up in Britt IA uncle ran an oil dealership. As I remember his story his uncle would put a pipe into the dome. That pipe was connected with hose to the pump.
Clark, do you know any reason he didn't just use the bottom outlet?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Tank Car Unloading-LPG

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

This gets me wondering--

Just when did propane come into common use on farms and homes?

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., MDelvec952@... wrote:


What era?

Today nitrogen is pumped into LPG cars to force the contents out.?
Once empty, the cars are then depressured for transport.
?
Mike Del Vecchio


-----Original Message-----
From: boyds1949 <E27ca@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:47 am
Subject: [STMFC] Tank Car Unloading-LPG






I was looking at a recent model railroad publication on building a
propane dealership and it said that the liquid propane was unloaded
by
pumping air in the tank car to force the liquid propane out. Is
that
correct? I would think that forcing air in a propane tank car would
be
creating the perfect mix for a violent explosion. It would make
sense
to pump propane gas into the tank. Does anyone know what they
really
did?

John King





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Re: 6 Dome wine tank cars

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Eddie Stavleu wrote:
I have the HO Roco cars that will do me for these. D&RGW had one as a water car for MOW
If these are only stand-in or "fun" cars, the Roco ones are fine, but be aware they are not even close to a prototype.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Renting of freight cars to the Yakima Valley Transportation Co.

Gene Green <bierglaeser@...>
 

My list differs somewhat from Mr. Brown's but here is what I found
and where I found it and what I couldn't find.

A&V = Alabama & Vicksburg Ry. Co.
DC = Delray Connecting RR Co. (Detroit, Mich.)
FS&W = Fort Smith & Western Ry. (Fort Smith, Ark.)
H&TC = Houston & Texas Central RR (see Southern Pacific Lines in
Texas and Louisiana.)
NODM = Nor-Oeste de Mexico (see Mexico North-Western Ry.)
About CI&W: I found Cincinnati, Indianapolis & Western RR but the
reporting marks listed are "CIWN."
About NONE: I found New Orlean & Northeastern listed as "NO&NE"
under the Southern Ry System entry.
SOURCE: March 1923 ORER

C&IW = CHICAGO & ILLINOIS WESTERN RAILROAD
DS = DURHAM & SOUTHERN RAILWAY CO.
SOURCE: http://www.pwrr.org/rrm/rrmc.html

CH&D = ?
DH&C = ?
FRL = ?

Reporting marks have, on occasion, been reused. I have seen examples
of this in private owner reporting marks. It may be that WHEN a
reporting mark was used would be germaine to WHAT it represented at
that time.

Gene Green
Out in the west Texas town of El Paso

Old reporting marks -- gotta love 'em!

A&V: Alabama & Vicksburg (later part of the Illinois Central)
CH&D: Cincinnati, Hamilton, & Dayton (later part of the B&O)
CI&W: Cincinnati, Indianapolis, & Western (spun off from the CH&D,
but later also bought by the B&O)
DC, DH&C: dunno
DS: perhaps Detroit Southern (later part of the DT&I); unsure since
the list sometimes omits ampersands (Durham & Southern?)
FS&W: Fort Smith & Western (abandoned 1939)
H&TC: Houston & Texas Central (later part of the Texas & New
Orleans)
NOT&M, NO&NE: already identified by others

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

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