Date   

Re: Wabash 65' mill gons

Gary Roe
 

Brian,

Like Richard, I have not seen the model "in person"; but I did send a painting and lettering diagram to Athearn, so they have no excuses to have done it wrong.

gary roe

----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Hendrickson
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, 23 February, 2008 7:58 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Wabash 65' mill gons


On Feb 23, 2008, at 2:49 PM, Brian J Carlson wrote:

> I wanted to add a Wabash 65' mill gon to the layout. I planned to use
> Ted's
> decals and repaint one I picked up cheap. Now I see athearn has done
> the
> Wabash scheme as well. Do the Wabash experts know if there are
> problems with
> the Wabash factory paint on the athearn car? I don't mind painting and
> decaling but one less project would be nice.

Brian, I haven't seen one of these models yet, so it would be good to
get an evaluation by a Wabash maven like Chet French who has actually
had an opportunity to compare the model with the prototype data.
However, when the 65' gons were under development, I sent several
photos of the Wabash cars to Craig Walker, their R&D guy, and he
generally does a fine job with paint and lettering if he has good
information to work from. The problem at Athearn isn't their R&D
department, it's the sales department that insists on putting bogus P/L
schemes on models (e.g., in the case of the 65' mill gons, NKP, MP, and
NP) when there were correct prototypes like the Wabash cars that could
have been modeled. Now that they've done the Wabash car, I may have to
get one, even though I probably already have too many 65' mill gons and
will have to rotate them on my diorama.

Richard Hendrickson


Tid bits

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

I was at a fledgling fund raiser for the U of M model railroad club in Minneapolis yesterday. The show was set up like an RPM meet.

I was happy to listen to a couple older gentleman's recollections.
One grew up next to the Minneapolis Moline tractor plant. He always was fascinated by the crane used to sit the tractors on flat cars. I guess I've never given a thought to how the tractors got on the flat cars, but that's one way.
The other fella was retired after 30 yrs working at a bakery in the suburb of Hopkins. He said they get their flour bulk in box cars. They used a vacuum hose to draw the flour out of the car into bins in the buildings basement. I asked him if they used grain doors and what kind of lining was in the car. But, he work in another part of the bakery and that was all he knew.
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Re: Terry Link's website

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Walter Cox wrote:
"This sounds like a website I should visit. Does anyone have the
address."

http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/NYC-MODELS-FREIGHT.htm will take
you directly to the NYC Freight Car summary.


Ben Hom


Re: Terry Link's website

anthony wagner
 

Canada Southern.com Tony Wagner

WaltGCox@... wrote:

In a message dated 2/23/2008 10:13:14 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
rhendrickson@... writes:

50' single door, Lot 700B boxcar 176613. The P2k model is listed as
reasonably accurate on Terry Link's website.
This sounds like a website I should visit. Does anyone have the address. I
tried a search for it but kept coming up with an Illinois senator. <tia>
Walter Cox

**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)


Re: Terry Link's website

WaltGCox@...
 

Thanks Ben and Tony. It is a most useful site and will save me a lot of
time ensuring a acceptable degree of accuracy in the NYC cars that I will be
adding to my collection. Walter Cox



**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)


Re: Silver Streak.

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 23, 2008, at 7:05 PM, Malcolm Laughlin wrote:

Thanks for the input on the reefers. I'll take a look at cutting them
down to size and see if I feel it's within my cpapbilities (not nearly
as good as many of you). It will be difficult with the cast ends, but
would wooden end cars have still been around in the 50's ?
Sure, lots of them, though perhaps not with 1930s and '40s P/L schemes.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: NYC Lot 700B from P2K 50 boxcars

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 23, 2008, at 7:20 PM, Brian J Carlson wrote:

One followup, Can either of you tell from photos if the wood roofwalk
provided in the kit is correct? Were these replaced with an expanded
metal
product later in life?
They came from the builder's with wood running boards, and it's
unlikely that the NYC later replaced them with metal RBs.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: 6 Dome wine tank cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 22, 2008, at 1:40 PM, John Hile wrote:

At some point, Precision Scale did a brass 6-dome wine car. I have
notes that there were three schemes...Roma, Madera. R. Martini. Model
#17524-? I saw one of these on eBay a few years ago, but don't recall
the underframe type, reporting marks, etc. IIRC the dome vents came
off the side of each dome...similar to the vent on Precision's Van
Dyke tank. Anyone have any info on these?
John, I have an undec PSC model. It's a relatively accurate and well
detailed model of a GATC car. But not, please note, of the AC&F cars
operated by SHPX and NATX, which had quite different underframes and
the safety vents on top of the domes, rather than on elbows on the
sides of the domes (some GATC cars also had larger domes with the
safeties on top). Note, too, that those were frangible disk safety
vents, NOT the spring-loaded safety valves required on ICC-103 and
ICC-104 cars for the shipment of regulatory commodities.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: NYC Lot 700B from P2K 50 boxcars

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

One followup, Can either of you tell from photos if the wood roofwalk
provided in the kit is correct? Were these replaced with an expanded metal
product later in life?

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: NYC Lot 700B from P2K 50 boxcars

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Thank you Richard and Jeff: I'll have to check Bob's stuff out in March.
Hanging onto this one for now.


Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: NYC Lot 700B from P2K 50 boxcars

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 23, 2008, at 6:21 PM, Brian J Carlson wrote:

Cleaning out some more models for potential sales. I have a P2k model
for
50' single door, Lot 700B boxcar 176613. The P2k model is listed as
reasonably accurate on Terry Link's website. I haven't been able yet
to
locate a picture of one of these cars. The cars were built by DSI in
1941.
are these cars accurate as far as ends and roof. The P2k car has 5/5
Dreadnaught ends, and a Murphy roof. I know DSI used Despatch ends
and roofs
in the post war era, however, I am not certain about immediately
prewar
Should this lot have 5/5 ends and a Murphy roof. Also P2k modeled it
in the
as built roman oval with a black background. The black background was
dropped in 1944 and when reinstated the lettering was switched to
Gothic.
How often did the NYC repaint cars? Would it be likely to see a car
in the
original paint scheme 16 years later in 1957?
Brian, the P2K model is just about dead-on accurate for the NYC cars as
built. Whether one would have lasted as late as 1957 with original P/L
is another matter. NYC wasn't known for frequently repainting freight
equipment, but sixteen years??? It would certainly have been very
weathered and dirty, at any rate. FWIW, I have a 1959 photo of NYC
177270 recently repainted in Jade Green and black with the big
cigar-band herald; maybe that was the first time it had been repainted.
But then again, maybe not.

Richard Hendrickson


Silver Streak.

Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
 

Thanks for the input on the reefers. I'll take a look at cutting them down to size and see if I feel it's within my cpapbilities (not nearly as good as many of you). It will be difficult with the cast ends, but would wooden end cars have still been around in the 50's ?

Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478


Re: NYC Lot 700B from P2K 50 boxcars

Jeff English
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Brian J Carlson" <brian@...> wrote:
<snip>
Lot 700B boxcar 176613.
<snip>
I haven't been able yet to
locate a picture of one of these cars.
Photos have been offered by:
Howard Ameling - 177063
Bob's Photo - 176920, 176906
W.C. Whittaker - 177270 (published in RMJ 4/98, p.32), 177287

Wayner's "New York Central Cars", p.38 has a company photo of 176893
which was also printed in the "NYC Headlight" Vol.6 No.1, p.19

All of the above are repaints. I have not seen a photo of an as-
built paint job on a car in this Lot.

are these cars accurate as far as ends and roof.
I know DSI used Despatch ends and roofs
in the post war era, however, I am not certain about immediately
prewar

Definitely no Despatch stampings before circa 1954.

Should this lot have 5/5 ends and a Murphy roof.
Yes.

How often did the NYC repaint cars?
Whenever justified.

Would it be likely to see a car in the
original paint scheme 16 years later in 1957?
My guess is: highly unlikely.

Hope this helps -

Jeff English
Troy, New York


NYC Lot 700B from P2K 50 boxcars

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Cleaning out some more models for potential sales. I have a P2k model for
50' single door, Lot 700B boxcar 176613. The P2k model is listed as
reasonably accurate on Terry Link's website. I haven't been able yet to
locate a picture of one of these cars. The cars were built by DSI in 1941.
are these cars accurate as far as ends and roof. The P2k car has 5/5
Dreadnaught ends, and a Murphy roof. I know DSI used Despatch ends and roofs
in the post war era, however, I am not certain about immediately prewar
Should this lot have 5/5 ends and a Murphy roof. Also P2k modeled it in the
as built roman oval with a black background. The black background was
dropped in 1944 and when reinstated the lettering was switched to Gothic.
How often did the NYC repaint cars? Would it be likely to see a car in the
original paint scheme 16 years later in 1957?

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: Wabash 65' mill gons

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 23, 2008, at 2:49 PM, Brian J Carlson wrote:

I wanted to add a Wabash 65' mill gon to the layout. I planned to use
Ted's
decals and repaint one I picked up cheap. Now I see athearn has done
the
Wabash scheme as well. Do the Wabash experts know if there are
problems with
the Wabash factory paint on the athearn car? I don't mind painting and
decaling but one less project would be nice.
Brian, I haven't seen one of these models yet, so it would be good to
get an evaluation by a Wabash maven like Chet French who has actually
had an opportunity to compare the model with the prototype data.
However, when the 65' gons were under development, I sent several
photos of the Wabash cars to Craig Walker, their R&D guy, and he
generally does a fine job with paint and lettering if he has good
information to work from. The problem at Athearn isn't their R&D
department, it's the sales department that insists on putting bogus P/L
schemes on models (e.g., in the case of the 65' mill gons, NKP, MP, and
NP) when there were correct prototypes like the Wabash cars that could
have been modeled. Now that they've done the Wabash car, I may have to
get one, even though I probably already have too many 65' mill gons and
will have to rotate them on my diorama.

Richard Hendrickson


Early 20th cent B&M freight cars

Earl Tuson
 

Andreas Kuehnpast said on the BM_RR list a couple weeks ago (when the subject line had been Pullman Palace Car photos):

Am I right in assuming that the SSC drawings you mention below are for freight cars?
Ted Anderson supplied drawings for, among others, the B&M's 80000 series of GS gons built 1909-10 by Laconia Car Co. to, apparently, a Standard Steel Car Co. design. One wonders what additional role SSC may have played, because these would have been some of the first, if not the very first, all steel cars built by Laconia.

I am eagerly looking for drawings of the following B&M freight cars:
a.. 34' WUF coal car (gondola) built by the B&M in 1899/1900 and by
LACONIA in 1906 - 1908: # 21400 - 24987 and # 39000 - 39999
While I am not aware of drawings of these cars, I was recently looking at drawings of NH Pratt Patent gondolas. As I was, it struck me how the basic frame of the car was similar in appearance to the B&M 34' WUF drop end coal cars you mention above. Both these and the B&M's Pratt Patent cars were built during the same period at Laconia. After comparing the B&M class diagrams, I believe you could base the underframe construction details of the drop end cars on the drawings of the Pratt cars. Look for the 1906 CBC on Google Books; you will find the drawings there.

The Pratt Patent gondola design has intrigued me for some time, but only recently have I gotten a few 'nuggets' which explain them better (including a copy of Elias Pratt's patent.) I have been accumulating material on them, and would like to see their existence better known among modelers.

b.. 35' 6" steel flat car built by PRESSED STEEL for the New Haven in
1902 - 1903 and sold to the B&M in 1911: # 33000 - 33499
I am not aware of drawings for these either, but I think we should be assessing what resources the NH community may have on these and other shared-design rolling stock. Due to the corporate relationship early in the 20th century, these roads and the MEC shared car designs to at least some degree.

Having said that... Years ago, the late William Edson sold ICC Valuation Survey equipment lists. I never obtained the NH book he had, as I did not yet appreciate how it might be of use to me. Does anyone have these records for the NH and would be willing to share them with me? I am only looking for the Account 53 lists for NH and subsidiaries (CNE may be listed separately???)

Earl Tuson


Re: Terry Link's website

WaltGCox@...
 

In a message dated 2/23/2008 10:13:14 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
rhendrickson@... writes:

50' single door, Lot 700B boxcar 176613. The P2k model is listed as
reasonably accurate on Terry Link's website.

This sounds like a website I should visit. Does anyone have the address. I
tried a search for it but kept coming up with an Illinois senator. <tia>
Walter Cox



**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)


Re: tools for building freight cars sorta of close to topic

rdietrichson
 

Gentlemen,
One source of tools, screws and all kinds of good stuff that I have
not seen mentioned in connection with this topic is Small Parts Inc.
They can be accessed at www.smallparts.com. They are extremely
reasonable and have a vast array of material.
Rick Dietrichson
Wilmington, NC

-- In STMFC@..., RUTLANDRS@... wrote:

Probably like a "drill bit" so they can be used as a back up corkscrew.
Chuck Hladik



**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL
Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Wabash 65' mill gons

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

I wanted to add a Wabash 65' mill gon to the layout. I planned to use Ted's
decals and repaint one I picked up cheap. Now I see athearn has done the
Wabash scheme as well. Do the Wabash experts know if there are problems with
the Wabash factory paint on the athearn car? I don't mind painting and
decaling but one less project would be nice.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: 6 Dome wine tank cars

Eddie Stavleu <eddiestavleu@...>
 

Thank you Rod,.

The Roma car will be a good help

Eddie.


A little over a year ago this was discussed IIRC on this group.
Someone posted two photos which I saved for future personal
reference. I just uploaded to the files section.

Rod

John Hile wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., "Eddie Stavleu" <eddiestavleu@...> wrote:
>> John,
>>
>> Do you photos and if so will you share them please
>>
>> Eddie.
>>
>
> Eddie,
>
> I do not have any photos of the Precision Scale cars.
>
> Somewhere out there (on the web) is a b&w photo of GATX 417, a
> 6-compartment Victor California Wines, California Grape Products Co.
> car. It is dark (black?) with light (white?) lettering.
> Unfortunately, I did not bookmark or otherwise record its location.
> Someone else on the list may know where to find it.
>
> -John Hile

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