Date   

Re: SFRD Fan-Equipped Rr-30 RH Side Lettering

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 27, 2008, at 11:33 AM, John Hile wrote:

I am a little confused by the 11/43 electric fan install date though.
Prior to your response, I started digging into the ATSF Reefer Book,
the PFE book, and the Carbuilder's Cyclopedias to try and establish a
time-frame for electric fans.

Looking at PFE rebuilds and new cars, I did not find any references to
electric fans being installed prior to the early 1950's. The earliest
Santa Fe experiment with electric fans appears to date 1950, and the
1953 Carbuilders Cyc is the first time I see an ad for electric fans.
You're quite right, and I see now that my post was misleading.
Electric fans didn't appear until ca. 1950. I meant to cite the 1943
date only as a revision date on the folio sheet, not to assert that
fans were in fact being applied at that time.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Walthers P2K Mather box car question

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 27, 2008, at 1:06 PM, jim_mischke wrote:

I am considering adding a Mather boxcar to my fleet, for fun and
variety. I model 1960 or so.

I see Walthers/P2K offers such a car, in various road names. I am
familiar with Muncie and Western and C&IM.

Did any of these cars last past 1960? Which road names of those
offered and lettering variation would be appropriate for this late
date?
Sorry, Jim, all of the P/L schemes on the P2K models represent 1940s
through mid-1950s, and by 1960 all of those cars had gone to the great
freight yard in the sky. By that time, Mather had been purchased by
North American Car Co. (mostly to get Mather's Chicago Ridge car shops)
and only some later (1941) box cars and some stock cars remained in the
NACC leasing fleet.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: help

Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

Doug - Thanks for the info but I'm getting a copy for free from another mamber. - Al

----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Brown" <g.brown1@worldnet.att.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 2:17 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] help


Al,



To order a CD Rom ( ($10.00 for S&H):

1. Click link from Michael Bishop
2. Click one of the HP Scanjet 4600 . links under HP Scanjet 4600
Scanner series
3. Click link for Operating System
4. Click link to order CD Rom



Doug Brown



-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Westerfield
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 6:43 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] help



Michael - They have drivers but not the program. I can scan one item but
then have to reformat to do the next. The program will allow me to keep
going rather than reload from Widows Explorer for each scan. - Al
Westerfield
----- Original Message -----
From: michael bishop
To: HYPERLINK "mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com"STMFC@yahoogroups.-com
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] help

The HP web site has drivers for the 4600, p and v

HYPERLINK
"http://h20180.www2.hp.com/apps/Lookup?h_lang=en&h_cc=us&cc=us&h_page=hpcom&
lang=en&h_client=S-A-R163-1&h_query=scanjet+4600&submit.x=10&submit.y=8"http
://h20180.-www2.hp.com/-apps/Lookup?-h_lang=en&-h_cc=us&cc=-us&h_page=-hpcom
&lang=-en&h_client=-S-A-R163--1&h_query=-scanjet+4600&-submit.x=-10&submit.-
y=8

Michael
Westerfield <HYPERLINK
"mailto:westerfield%40charter.net"westerfield@-charter.net> wrote:
Does anyone own an HP Scanjet 4600? I want to install it on a new computer
but lost my program disk. The HP site has no download. - Al Westerfield



------------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.








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Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Mystery Gons

Charlie Vlk
 

Doug-

The Hell with the steel drop-bottom gons..... look at the Waycar in the far corner of the picture!!!
It appears to have a full window on the side beyond the cupola in what, on a normal car, would
be the "dry hopper". The posted photo isn't sharp enough, when I zoom in on it, to be able to
tell if the car has a radial roof like a normal waycar or if it has a peaked roof....maybe it is one
of the NE-5 cars rebuilt during WWI from boxcars? Or just an oddball?
It appears to have a normal standard Q cupola, although the plane of the side seems to continue
down through the facsia to the body...the smoke jack/stove are on the left side of the car and it
looks to be 30' with No.7 trucks and a "possum belly" tool box. The car is also very light in color
when compared to the work gon, flat and crane coupled ahead of it.... maybe yellow???

re: the Gondolas... the Q had a fleet of steel, drop bottom gondolas and were very late (1937) to sampling
hopper cars for coal service. The GS steel gons did not last as long as their USRA composite cars
and clones (most were gone by the end of the depression??.....some had their underframes
recyclyed ("reclaimed" in Q parlance) under SM18 stock cars). The composite clones, by contrast, lasted
into and beyond the BN era, at least in MOW service.

The only car that matches the two-vertical rib end configuration without any slotted door mechanism
tracks is the GA-1 class 40' 100m Steel Gondola Car.
There were two groups of them in the 1930 Diagram Book:
79000-80999 1984 Pg78 GA-1 Std. Stl. Car Co. 1907 Truck No.31 Genl Drwg 1666 16 Drop Doors
82000-82999 889 Pg78 GA-1 Std. Stl. Car Co. 1906-7 Truck No.31 Genl Drwg 1666 16 Drop Doors

I am guessing that the car in the second picture is a B&O hopper car... there are too many ribs for a CB&Q steel gon
and the lettering is in the wrong position for a Q car.

Charlie Vlk


Re: help

Doug Brown <g.brown1@...>
 

Al,



To order a CD Rom ( ($10.00 for S&H):

1. Click link from Michael Bishop
2. Click one of the HP Scanjet 4600 links under HP Scanjet 4600
Scanner series
3. Click link for Operating System
4. Click link to order CD Rom



Doug Brown

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Westerfield
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 6:43 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] help



Michael - They have drivers but not the program. I can scan one item but
then have to reformat to do the next. The program will allow me to keep
going rather than reload from Widows Explorer for each scan. - Al
Westerfield
----- Original Message -----
From: michael bishop
To: HYPERLINK "mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com"STMFC@yahoogroups.-com
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] help

The HP web site has drivers for the 4600, p and v

HYPERLINK
"http://h20180.www2.hp.com/apps/Lookup?h_lang=en&h_cc=us&cc=us&h_page=hpcom&
lang=en&h_client=S-A-R163-1&h_query=scanjet+4600&submit.x=10&submit.y=8"http
://h20180.-www2.hp.com/-apps/Lookup?-h_lang=en&-h_cc=us&cc=-us&h_page=-hpcom
&lang=-en&h_client=-S-A-R163--1&h_query=-scanjet+4600&-submit.x=-10&submit.-
y=8

Michael
Westerfield <HYPERLINK
"mailto:westerfield%40charter.net"westerfield@-charter.net> wrote:
Does anyone own an HP Scanjet 4600? I want to install it on a new computer
but lost my program disk. The HP site has no download. - Al Westerfield

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1300 - Release Date: 2/26/2008
7:50 PM



No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1303 - Release Date: 2/28/2008
12:14 PM



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Modeling possibilities?

proto48er
 

Guys -

The CSS&SB cars #1258 and #1266 look a lot like B&O cars from the
1923-constructed series of USRA clones B&O #251500 - #253499. Note
the wider, vertical corner posts at the drop ends, and the position
of the drop steps on the ends of the sides. However, they appear to
have a different handbrake arrangement from the B&O cars. Perhaps
they were built new for CSS&SB by Bethlehem??

Interesting cars! If I can remember, I will look them up in my
ORER's tonight to see when they first appeared, and how long CSS&SB
had them on the roster.

A.T. Kott

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Gatwood, Elden J SAD "
<Elden.J.Gatwood@...> wrote:

Guys;



For that one that looks pretty much like an original USRA clone,
with the
flat drop ends, the poling loops might be a hint. It may be an ex-
NYC or
ex-P,McK&Y/P&LE car.



The B&O cars got different ends and got modified pretty quickly.
The PRR
G25's did not match that car in details. The RDG's also did not
exactly
match that one in details.



I also agree that the other one has replacement sides and ends.
They look
too new for the rest of the car.



Elden Gatwood



________________________________

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of
rwitt_2000
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 11:02 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Modeling possibilities?




Ben Hom wrote:

Bruce Smith wrote:
"Aren't those 50 ton Andrews trucks? The car appears to be
stenciled
for 100,000 lbs not 140,000 lbs."

They are DEFINITELY Andrews trucks - cancel that recommendation
to use
Bowser Crown trucks!
I concur with Bruce and Ben the truck are 50-ton Andrews.

The question remains, I believe the CSS received these gondolas
second
hand, who were the original owners?

Bob Witt





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Modeling possibilities?

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 28, 2008, at 9:44 AM, Bruce Smith wrote:

The practice of building cars with vertical wheel (horizontal shaft)
power hand brakes began well before WWII. Thus, I'm not sure that
your claim that this feature distinguishing "modern" from steam era
freight cars is supportable unless you define the "modern era" as
post 1930 or so <G>. That said, the NYC car featured in your link,

> http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/nyc-726083.jpg

with an apparent build date of 1944, appears to be a bit of an
anachronism, even when built!
The first horizontal-shaft geared hand brakes, the Ajax Type 13039,
were introduced in 1926; similar so-called "power" hand brakes were
offered by other manufacturers in the late 1920s and early 1930s, and
their advantages were so obvious that the AAR issued a requirement in
1935 that all freight cars built or rebuilt after January 1, 1937, be
equipped with geared hand brakes. As Ben Hom has noted, however, there
were geared vertical staff hand brakes which were applied to flat cars,
tank cars, etc., and there was also a Klassing geared hand brake for
house cars which had a short vertical staff and horizontal wheel above
the gearbox. This is all covered in great detail in Pat Wider's fine
article on freight car hand brakes in Railway Prototype Cyclopedia,
Vol. 10.

The NYC car referenced here, lot 623-G, was built in 1936 to a design
that dated back to 1931, when a single sample car was built for the
NYC, and 1932, when 200 cars of lot 624-G were built for NYC-subsidiary
P&LE. Thus these cars pre-dated the AAR mandate that cars be equipped
with power hand brakes, and for some reason the NYC resisted the
adoption of geared hand brakes for years after they were becoming
standard car building practice on most other RRs (the NYC was still
ordering new box and auto cars in 1931 with vertical staff hand
brakes). It's worth noting that when the NYC receive an additional
order of mill gondolas to this same design from Bethlehem in 1949, they
were equipped with pump-handle type geared hand brakes of a type
extensively used in the 1940s and '50s on drop-end gondolas.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: AAMX 2002 (was Re: fallen flags site)

Carl J. Marsico <Carlmarsico@...>
 

Ben,

Good observation with the lower door track rollers. Any idea as to the use of this car subsequent to AAMX ownership, or dates of ownership? The topic of the Ertl cars and the other posts from today got my gears rolling again with this car as a potential project.

CJM

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
Carl Marsico wrote:
"On the topic of Steam Era cars photographed in the 60's, anyone have
any information regarding this one? (AAMX 2002) Here's the link:
http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/displayimage.php?i=19295

This is clearly a USRA DS boxcar; however, I've never been able to
track down the lineage of this car. At some point, its lower door
track rollers were replaced; the only cars I've seen with this feature
are some Frisco cars, but this is a tenuous connection onwhich to base
assumptions.

Ben Hom


Re: Railway Age article J&L coal tar tank car

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Larry Kline wrote:
I'm looking for a copy of the Railway Age article about the 20,000 gallon coal tar tank cars owned by Jones & Laughlin Steel Co. The reference in the 1946 Car Builders Cyclopedia is: Railway Age, June 22, 1926 issue, page 1376.
If no one has a copy, Larry, I can get one here from the UC Library.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Railway Age article J&L coal tar tank car

Larry Kline
 

I'm looking for a copy of the Railway Age article about the 20,000 gallon coal tar tank cars owned by Jones & Laughlin Steel Co. The reference in the 1946 Car Builders Cyclopedia is: Railway Age, June 22, 1926 issue, page 1376.

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA


Explosive Industry Tank Car Commodities

John Hile <john66h@...>
 

"Standard Tank Car Journeys" (1921?) lists several liquids used in the
manufacture of explosives. They are: acetone, alcohol, ammonia,
benzol, toluol, carbolic acid, nitric acid, glycerin and sulphuric acid.

The chapter on explosives discusses the products of the explosives
industry. Following are quotes...

Most propellants are nitrates, that is, combinations from nitric acid.

Among the smokeless propellants, the combinations of guncotton and
nitroglycerin lead the field.

Guncotton is made by immersions of pulp from pure cotton in nitric and
sulphuric acids. ...for use in smokeless powder...dissolution in
acetone or in certain benzene compounds.

Nitroglycerin is made from nitric acid and glycerin...principle
component in dynamite.

Alcohol is used to form fulminates.

Ammonia is employed in preparing ammonia nitrates.

An old and simple propellant is nitrobenzene...nitric acid and benzene.

Carbolic acid is the source of picric acid and other high explosive
elements.

Toluol, or toluene, combines with nitric acid to make
nitro-toluenes...used with certain ammonium nitrate explosives to
lower the freezing point of dynamite.

T.N.T. (trinitrotoluene)...combination of nitric acid and
toluene...not sensitive to shock.

From napthalene and nitric acid certain explosives are
made...particularly suitable for coal mining.

...various ingredients from coal tar...are employed...to impart some
particular characteristic. The principal ones are benzol and toluol.
They must be of a high degree of purity to prevent...products of
inferior stability.


-John Hile


AAMX 2002 (was Re: fallen flags site)

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Carl Marsico wrote:
"On the topic of Steam Era cars photographed in the 60's, anyone have
any information regarding this one? (AAMX 2002) Here's the link:
http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/displayimage.php?i=19295

This is clearly a USRA DS boxcar; however, I've never been able to
track down the lineage of this car. At some point, its lower door
track rollers were replaced; the only cars I've seen with this feature
are some Frisco cars, but this is a tenuous connection onwhich to base
assumptions.


Ben Hom


Re: Hercules 8000g Type 21 Tanks

Raymond Young
 

Hello all,

Concentrated Sulfuric Acid is used in the process to absorb water given off in the reaction between Nitriic Acid and Glycerin. There would probably be some Sulfuric Acid cars going to the plant. Children: Don't try this at home!

Regards,

Virgil Young
Amarillo, TX

----- Original Message ----
From: Larry Jackman <Ljack70117@comcast.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 12:34:19 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Hercules 8000g Type 21 Tanks

Nitro is a little pill you take when you have heart problems.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@comcast. net
Boca Raton FL 33434
I was born with nothing and
I have most of it left.

On Feb 28, 2008, at 12:59 PM, Anthony Thompson wrote:

John Carty wrote:
You are correct, no sane person would ship nitroglycerin by tank car.
The components (nitro and glycerin) would ship that way, as both are
essentially inert.
Don't know what "nitro" is, but you can make the explosive by
reacting nitric acid with glycerin. I don't know if that's the
commercial process.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress. com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail,
thompson@signaturep ress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history




Yahoo! Groups Links



Re: fallen flags site

Carl J. Marsico <Carlmarsico@...>
 

On the topic of Steam Era cars photographed in the 60's, anyone have any information regarding this one? (AAMX 2002) Here's the link:

http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/displayimage.php?i=19295

CJM


John Hile <john66h@aol.com> wrote:
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "ed_mines" <ed_mines@...> wrote:

Has anyone found steam era freight car at the fallen flags web site in
files besides Erie and the ACF?
Ed,

The Jim Sands photos, typically from Marshalltown IA in the late '60's
sometimes prove useful.

-John Hile


Re: fallen flags site

John Hile <john66h@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "ed_mines" <ed_mines@...> wrote:

Has anyone found steam era freight car at the fallen flags web site in
files besides Erie and the ACF?
Ed,

The Jim Sands photos, typically from Marshalltown IA in the late '60's
sometimes prove useful.

-John Hile


Re: Modeling possibilities?

Carl J. Marsico <Carlmarsico@...>
 

For clarification, the "outdated" was in reference to newly manufactured cars (with exceptions, e.g. flatcars) vs. cars in service.

In response to the original "why is it that the feature distinguishing steam-era freight cars from modern era seems to be the long vertical brake wheel shafting as opposed to the short horizontal brake wheel shaft seen on modern freight cars?", I don't consider it a good "litmus test".

CJM

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
Carl Marsico wrote:
"It depends when you make the cut-off from "steam" to "modern" If you
go by the definitions set by STMFC and MFCL, the cut-off is 1960, and
by that time, the "long vertical brake wheel shafting" was outdated."

Outdated, perhaps, but a sizable number of older cars still had this
arrangement into the 1960s. Additionally, "long vertical brake wheel
shafting" doesn't necessarily mean a lack of power hand brakes on a car
either, particularly for flat cars.

Ben Hom


Re: Modeling possibilities?

water.kresse@...
 

Folks,

The vertical shaft hand brake, except for removeable wheels and shafts on drop-end gons, dissappeared from (replaced by the "new" gear and chain with horizontal shaft wheels) on new C&O hops and gons in the mid-30s. You can still find vertical shaft FCs in mainline service into the late-fifties . . . . example: repainted C&O LCL Svc blue and yellow boxes in 1957 still had vertical hand brakes.

I'm not sure if the AAR made the gear-type hand brake "standard for new" in 1934?

Al Kresse

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Bruce Smith <smithbf@auburn.edu>

On Feb 28, 2008, at 11:07 AM, J. W. wrote:

Hi Steam Era Friends,

On a similar subject regarding gons, why is it that
the feature distinguishing steam-era freight cars from
modern era seems to be the long vertical brake wheel
shafting as opposed to the short horizontal brake
wheel shaft seen on modern freight cars?
The practice of building cars with vertical wheel (horizontal shaft)
power hand brakes began well before WWII. Thus, I'm not sure that
your claim that this feature distinguishing "modern" from steam era
freight cars is supportable unless you define the "modern era" as
post 1930 or so <G>. That said, the NYC car featured in your link,

http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/nyc-726083.jpg
with an apparent build date of 1944, appears to be a bit of an
anachronism, even when built!

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Re: Hercules 8000g Type 21 Tanks

Larry Jackman <Ljack70117@...>
 

Nitro is a little pill you take when you have heart problems.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@comcast.net
Boca Raton FL 33434
I was born with nothing and
I have most of it left.

On Feb 28, 2008, at 12:59 PM, Anthony Thompson wrote:

John Carty wrote:
You are correct, no sane person would ship nitroglycerin by tank car.
The components (nitro and glycerin) would ship that way, as both are
essentially inert.
Don't know what "nitro" is, but you can make the explosive by
reacting nitric acid with glycerin. I don't know if that's the
commercial process.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history




Yahoo! Groups Links



Re: Hercules 8000g Type 21 Tanks

John Hile <john66h@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Kurt Laughlin" <fleeta@...> wrote:

My guess - based on the origin of the cars and Hercules' business in
printing and paper chemicals - is that they were hauling paper-making
chemicals.
I believe Kurt is on the right track here. From the nice Hercules
company history at
http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/Hercules-Inc-Company-History.html

"The paper products division began in 1931 with the purchase of Paper
Makers Chemical Corporation, which provided 70 percent of U.S. demand
for the rosin "sizing" used to stiffen paper."


-John Hile


Re: (unknown)

Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

Guyz,

Lets be honest here, If one is a member of this, and other proto lists, they have passed the hobby stage. Proto RRing is a magnificent obsession; surpassed only by love of family. I don't see it as an illness; more a passion from the soul to be expressed. The only folks who don't know how enriching this hobby can be are the ones who haven't tried it.

Fred Freitas
Bennington, Vt

Dan Hall <dhallfsm@aol.com> wrote:


Dan

There's a fine line between hobby and mental illness.

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