--- In STMFC@..., "ed_mines" <ed_mines@...> wrote:

Has anyone found steam era freight car at the fallen flags web site in
files besides Erie and the ACF?

There are very are one or two pre-1960 shots in the FF NP collection.

There is one really nice Alba Bloss color shot ca. late 1950s of NP
30603, a 50-ft single sheathed auto box, rebuilt to single door:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/np/np30603abr.jpg

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT

AAMX are the reporting marks of Andrew Merrillees, Limited, of
Toronto, Ontario. They are still in business today, still selling
mostly used railway equipment.

http://www.merrilees.com/about.html

Steve Lucas.




--- In STMFC@..., "Carl J. Marsico" <Carlmarsico@...>
wrote:

Ben,

Good observation with the lower door track rollers. Any idea as

to the use of this car subsequent to AAMX ownership, or dates of
ownership? The topic of the Ertl cars and the other posts from
today got my gears rolling again with this car as a potential
project.

CJM

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...> wrote:
Carl Marsico wrote:
"On the topic of Steam Era cars photographed in the 60's, anyone

have

any information regarding this one? (AAMX 2002) Here's the link:
http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/displayimage.php?i=19295

This is clearly a USRA DS boxcar; however, I've never been able to
track down the lineage of this car. At some point, its lower door
track rollers were replaced; the only cars I've seen with this

feature

are some Frisco cars, but this is a tenuous connection onwhich to

base

assumptions.

Ben Hom






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Fred,
Nicely put.
I think it was one of our glorius leaders, Bob Sleicher, who said we are "miniture historians".
I did an abbreviated version of my Naperville clinic on building techniques for resin & plastic FCs at my LHS. It was the same day thousands fled NW Indiana to make the pilgramage to Trainfest in Milwaukee.
My only attendee was a 9 year old girl who asked me what I was doing. I told her I built FC kits as prototype models and added details. I showed her a Sunshine kit and an in progresscar and that there are more MRs buying RTR.
She said," I think yours is more funner".
Bless her little heart.

Rob Manley

Hello all,

I am getting rid of some of my last Kadee trucks and instead of ebay I thought I could try this group.

There are two pairs of Andrews trucks with solid back wheels. These are painted box car red have have the Kadee plastic brake rigging. One pair is weathered up more than the other. I have some pics if you would like to see. $9.00 gets these to you post paid.

Also are three pair of Bettendorf trucks. These have no wheels. All are new. $7.50 gets you all three pairs post paid.

If interested please contact me off-list (tjlawler@...) for these trucks. I will not respond to any on list inquiry.

Thanks,

Tom Lawler

Thanks very much for posting that link! That's a great history and
more complete than I have stumbled across in a couple of half-hearted
attempts.

For my modeling efforts, my assumption is the tank cars were used to
carry products used in the printing industry which survived in the
Boston area into the period I model.

Now, if I could only learn where the cars were routed from to get on
the New Haven...the two photos I have show cars in Boston (a terminal
yard most likely for these cars) and Cedar Hill; but traffic from
Maybrook and the New York float facilities was routed through Cedar
Hill, so I am no wiser as to the connecting railroad...

Anyone aware of these cars routed via either Pennsy, B&O, DL&W,
Erie? Any of these would help nail down the routing. My opinion
only, but these cars were fun to build compared to the IM SHPX tanks,
and I went so far as to contact Walthers to find out if the well-
printed placards were available as a separate part.

Regards,
Peter
http://www.freewebs.com/newhavenrailroad1959/

--- In STMFC@..., "John Hile" <john66h@...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., "Kurt Laughlin" <fleeta@> wrote:

My guess - based on the origin of the cars and Hercules' business

in

printing and paper chemicals - is that they were hauling paper-

making

chemicals.

I believe Kurt is on the right track here. From the nice Hercules
company history at
http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/Hercules-Inc-

Company-History.html

"The paper products division began in 1931 with the purchase of

Paper

Makers Chemical Corporation, which provided 70 percent of U.S.

demand

for the rosin "sizing" used to stiffen paper."


-John Hile

Bob,
CB&Q and Rock Island. Not a lot but enough. Most of the photos are from the outer edge of our time span.

Rob Manley

Ed Mines wrote:

Has anyone found steam era freight car at the fallen flags web site in
files besides Erie and the ACF?

There some scans of Paul Dunn photos in the B&O freight car section.
These are from the 1950's.

Bob Witt

For STMFC'ers who would like to get a jump on getting these latest offerings from Brian's TMW, I am offering them as bare pairs (less wheelsets). I also have replenished earlier Swing Motion Caboose trucks.

And for the first time, TMW brake beam brake shoe pairs for retrofitting to other makes of trucks (like Accurail spring plank and Branchline Barber S2, among many others.

Email me at <midcentury@...> Off-List, please, if interested in which Railroads (Many) had these designs. thanks,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

Brian Leppert <b.leppert@...> wrote: The Atlas plain bearing caboose truck replicates the 50 ton version of the
Barber-Bettendorf Swing Motion Caboose Truck, based on its shape and the
beading on the side frame's face that encircles the windows only. The only
railroads I've found that used this version were PRR, who replaced the
original trucks on a few cabins, and Great Northern, series X106 to 115,
built 1967.

The 30 ton version, which Richard mentioned, will be available in HO from
Tahoe Model Works in a couple of weeks. The prototype was manufactured from
1935 through the late 1950s, at least. Both Bettendorf and Standard Car
Truck Co. (who added their trade name "Barber" to the truck's name) offered
this side frame design. Bettendorf left the market in 1942 and sold all
rights for the Swing Motion caboose truck to SCTCo. Over forty railroads
used it.

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV

Anyone know what kits Martin Lofton will be bringing to the Orange
Empire Railway Museum meet Saturday?

Jay Bingham
Pacific Palisdes, CA

On Feb 27, 2008, at 11:33 AM, John Hile wrote:

I am a little confused by the 11/43 electric fan install date though.
Prior to your response, I started digging into the ATSF Reefer Book,
the PFE book, and the Carbuilder's Cyclopedias to try and establish a
time-frame for electric fans.

Looking at PFE rebuilds and new cars, I did not find any references to
electric fans being installed prior to the early 1950's. The earliest
Santa Fe experiment with electric fans appears to date 1950, and the
1953 Carbuilders Cyc is the first time I see an ad for electric fans.

You're quite right, and I see now that my post was misleading.
Electric fans didn't appear until ca. 1950. I meant to cite the 1943
date only as a revision date on the folio sheet, not to assert that
fans were in fact being applied at that time.

Richard Hendrickson

On Feb 27, 2008, at 1:06 PM, jim_mischke wrote:

I am considering adding a Mather boxcar to my fleet, for fun and
variety. I model 1960 or so.

I see Walthers/P2K offers such a car, in various road names. I am
familiar with Muncie and Western and C&IM.

Did any of these cars last past 1960? Which road names of those
offered and lettering variation would be appropriate for this late
date?

Sorry, Jim, all of the P/L schemes on the P2K models represent 1940s
through mid-1950s, and by 1960 all of those cars had gone to the great
freight yard in the sky. By that time, Mather had been purchased by
North American Car Co. (mostly to get Mather's Chicago Ridge car shops)
and only some later (1941) box cars and some stock cars remained in the
NACC leasing fleet.

Richard Hendrickson

Doug - Thanks for the info but I'm getting a copy for free from another mamber. - Al

Doug-

The Hell with the steel drop-bottom gons..... look at the Waycar in the far corner of the picture!!!
It appears to have a full window on the side beyond the cupola in what, on a normal car, would
be the "dry hopper". The posted photo isn't sharp enough, when I zoom in on it, to be able to
tell if the car has a radial roof like a normal waycar or if it has a peaked roof....maybe it is one
of the NE-5 cars rebuilt during WWI from boxcars? Or just an oddball?
It appears to have a normal standard Q cupola, although the plane of the side seems to continue
down through the facsia to the body...the smoke jack/stove are on the left side of the car and it
looks to be 30' with No.7 trucks and a "possum belly" tool box. The car is also very light in color
when compared to the work gon, flat and crane coupled ahead of it.... maybe yellow???

re: the Gondolas... the Q had a fleet of steel, drop bottom gondolas and were very late (1937) to sampling
hopper cars for coal service. The GS steel gons did not last as long as their USRA composite cars
and clones (most were gone by the end of the depression??.....some had their underframes
recyclyed ("reclaimed" in Q parlance) under SM18 stock cars). The composite clones, by contrast, lasted
into and beyond the BN era, at least in MOW service.

The only car that matches the two-vertical rib end configuration without any slotted door mechanism
tracks is the GA-1 class 40' 100m Steel Gondola Car.
There were two groups of them in the 1930 Diagram Book:
79000-80999 1984 Pg78 GA-1 Std. Stl. Car Co. 1907 Truck No.31 Genl Drwg 1666 16 Drop Doors
82000-82999 889 Pg78 GA-1 Std. Stl. Car Co. 1906-7 Truck No.31 Genl Drwg 1666 16 Drop Doors

I am guessing that the car in the second picture is a B&O hopper car... there are too many ribs for a CB&Q steel gon
and the lettering is in the wrong position for a Q car.

Charlie Vlk

Al,



To order a CD Rom ( ($10.00 for S&H):

1. Click link from Michael Bishop
2. Click one of the HP Scanjet 4600 … links under HP Scanjet 4600
Scanner series
3. Click link for Operating System
4. Click link to order CD Rom



Doug Brown

Guys -

The CSS&SB cars #1258 and #1266 look a lot like B&O cars from the
1923-constructed series of USRA clones B&O #251500 - #253499. Note
the wider, vertical corner posts at the drop ends, and the position
of the drop steps on the ends of the sides. However, they appear to
have a different handbrake arrangement from the B&O cars. Perhaps
they were built new for CSS&SB by Bethlehem??

Interesting cars! If I can remember, I will look them up in my
ORER's tonight to see when they first appeared, and how long CSS&SB
had them on the roster.

A.T. Kott

--- In STMFC@..., "Gatwood, Elden J SAD "
<Elden.J.Gatwood@...> wrote:

Guys;



For that one that looks pretty much like an original USRA clone,

with the

flat drop ends, the poling loops might be a hint. It may be an ex-

NYC or

ex-P,McK&Y/P&LE car.



The B&O cars got different ends and got modified pretty quickly.

The PRR

G25's did not match that car in details. The RDG's also did not

exactly

match that one in details.



I also agree that the other one has replacement sides and ends.

They look

too new for the rest of the car.



Elden Gatwood



________________________________

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On

Behalf Of

rwitt_2000
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 11:02 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Modeling possibilities?




Ben Hom wrote:

Bruce Smith wrote:
"Aren't those 50 ton Andrews trucks? The car appears to be

stenciled

for 100,000 lbs not 140,000 lbs."

They are DEFINITELY Andrews trucks - cancel that recommendation

to use

Bowser Crown trucks!

I concur with Bruce and Ben the truck are 50-ton Andrews.

The question remains, I believe the CSS received these gondolas

second

hand, who were the original owners?

Bob Witt





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Feb 28, 2008, at 9:44 AM, Bruce Smith wrote:

The practice of building cars with vertical wheel (horizontal shaft)
power hand brakes began well before WWII. Thus, I'm not sure that
your claim that this feature distinguishing "modern" from steam era
freight cars is supportable unless you define the "modern era" as
post 1930 or so <G>. That said, the NYC car featured in your link,

> http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/nyc-726083.jpg

with an apparent build date of 1944, appears to be a bit of an
anachronism, even when built!

The first horizontal-shaft geared hand brakes, the Ajax Type 13039,
were introduced in 1926; similar so-called "power" hand brakes were
offered by other manufacturers in the late 1920s and early 1930s, and
their advantages were so obvious that the AAR issued a requirement in
1935 that all freight cars built or rebuilt after January 1, 1937, be
equipped with geared hand brakes. As Ben Hom has noted, however, there
were geared vertical staff hand brakes which were applied to flat cars,
tank cars, etc., and there was also a Klassing geared hand brake for
house cars which had a short vertical staff and horizontal wheel above
the gearbox. This is all covered in great detail in Pat Wider's fine
article on freight car hand brakes in Railway Prototype Cyclopedia,
Vol. 10.

The NYC car referenced here, lot 623-G, was built in 1936 to a design
that dated back to 1931, when a single sample car was built for the
NYC, and 1932, when 200 cars of lot 624-G were built for NYC-subsidiary
P&LE. Thus these cars pre-dated the AAR mandate that cars be equipped
with power hand brakes, and for some reason the NYC resisted the
adoption of geared hand brakes for years after they were becoming
standard car building practice on most other RRs (the NYC was still
ordering new box and auto cars in 1931 with vertical staff hand
brakes). It's worth noting that when the NYC receive an additional
order of mill gondolas to this same design from Bethlehem in 1949, they
were equipped with pump-handle type geared hand brakes of a type
extensively used in the 1940s and '50s on drop-end gondolas.

Richard Hendrickson

Ben,

Good observation with the lower door track rollers. Any idea as to the use of this car subsequent to AAMX ownership, or dates of ownership? The topic of the Ertl cars and the other posts from today got my gears rolling again with this car as a potential project.

CJM

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...> wrote:
Carl Marsico wrote:
"On the topic of Steam Era cars photographed in the 60's, anyone have
any information regarding this one? (AAMX 2002) Here's the link:
http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/displayimage.php?i=19295

This is clearly a USRA DS boxcar; however, I've never been able to
track down the lineage of this car. At some point, its lower door
track rollers were replaced; the only cars I've seen with this feature
are some Frisco cars, but this is a tenuous connection onwhich to base
assumptions.

Ben Hom

Larry Kline wrote:

I'm looking for a copy of the Railway Age article about the 20,000 gallon coal tar tank cars owned by Jones & Laughlin Steel Co. The reference in the 1946 Car Builders Cyclopedia is: Railway Age, June 22, 1926 issue, page 1376.

If no one has a copy, Larry, I can get one here from the UC Library.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

I'm looking for a copy of the Railway Age article about the 20,000 gallon coal tar tank cars owned by Jones & Laughlin Steel Co. The reference in the 1946 Car Builders Cyclopedia is: Railway Age, June 22, 1926 issue, page 1376.

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA

"Standard Tank Car Journeys" (1921?) lists several liquids used in the
manufacture of explosives. They are: acetone, alcohol, ammonia,
benzol, toluol, carbolic acid, nitric acid, glycerin and sulphuric acid.

The chapter on explosives discusses the products of the explosives
industry. Following are quotes...

Most propellants are nitrates, that is, combinations from nitric acid.

Among the smokeless propellants, the combinations of guncotton and
nitroglycerin lead the field.

Guncotton is made by immersions of pulp from pure cotton in nitric and
sulphuric acids. ...for use in smokeless powder...dissolution in
acetone or in certain benzene compounds.

Nitroglycerin is made from nitric acid and glycerin...principle
component in dynamite.

Alcohol is used to form fulminates.

Ammonia is employed in preparing ammonia nitrates.

An old and simple propellant is nitrobenzene...nitric acid and benzene.

Carbolic acid is the source of picric acid and other high explosive
elements.

Toluol, or toluene, combines with nitric acid to make
nitro-toluenes...used with certain ammonium nitrate explosives to
lower the freezing point of dynamite.

T.N.T. (trinitrotoluene)...combination of nitric acid and
toluene...not sensitive to shock.

From napthalene and nitric acid certain explosives are
made...particularly suitable for coal mining.

...various ingredients from coal tar...are employed...to impart some
particular characteristic. The principal ones are benzol and toluol.
They must be of a high degree of purity to prevent...products of
inferior stability.


-John Hile