--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Schroedle" <hummerdaves@...> wrote:

For the Milwaukee Road's Beer Line in 1950/55. How can I find them or
can anyone help.
TIA

Dave Schroedle

You may be able to find switch lists, but it's unlikely that you'd find
wheel reports.

I believe the beer line was entirely within the Milwaukee station.
Wheel reports are made up for road trains showing stations between
which
cars are moved.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Burgess" <jack@...> wrote:
Yes, you should replace your wheelsets, While many modelers are now using Code 88
metal wheels, I'm not making this conversion .................. I use Kadee Code 110 wheelsets
to swap out plastic wheelsets.

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com

Hi Jack, Without touching on the logic - or lack thereof - of my actions I have two distinct
time eras and associated locomotives and rolling stock that I run at alternate times on my
track. A nominal 1950 era set and a May, 1971 era set. The appearance of the usually
smaller 1950 era cars have been greatly benefitted by smaller couplers. I use Scale
Accumates for the '50 era cars both because of the appearance of the coupler and - even
more so - the appearance of the draft gear of the scale Accumates The 1971 era rolling
stock is a mix of Kadee #58s and #5s. The #58s are mostly used on 40 foot cars and
cabooses while motive power and cars such as large covered hoppers mostly have #5s.
Running this mix has given me some exposure to a mix of scale (#58 size) and #5 size
couplers.

The reason I'm responding to your email is to relate my experiences. I find the #58
couplers don't have the range of lateral coupling ability (gather) that the #5s do. I think
this is caused by two main problems. The first is the offset of of the couplers caused by
at least a portion of one of the cars being on a curved track and the second problem -
even on straight track - is one of of coupler lateral offset caused by excess lateral play of
the car body relative to the truck wheels. To both minimize this problem and to improve
appearance I mostly use Reboxx .088" wide wheels. I fit the axle length of the wheels to
the trucks not to obtain the lowest rolling effort but rather to obtain the least lateral
motion of the wheelsets in the truck before markedly degrading rolling ability.

Since you are currently planning to convert to #58 couplers while retaining your .110
wheelsets with whatever lateral play which currently exists in your rolling stock
remaining unchanged I'd encourage you to do convert a few cars first and then operate
with them to determine if the resultant operation is acceptable to you. Regards, Don
Smith

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Justin Kahn <harumd@...> wrote:

What caught MY eye in the very nice image, however, was the New Haven

end door auto car to its right.
-------------------------------
Jace, it's not New Haven, it's Nickel Plate. And it's not an auto car
but a single-door auto PARTS car. (Although I suppose vehicles such as
trucks or buses could have been driven in from the end.)
From my previous post:
According to Sunshine Models Prototype Data Sheet #64A, NKP 25000-25099
were rebuilds from 1947-48, with [single] 7' doors and end doors (and
indented
Murphy B end.) They were soon renumbered to 4300-4399 because of the
NKP's acquisition of the W&LE.
I don't know the kit number (I bought the similar rebuild with solid,
indented Hutchins ends.)
Scott Pitzer

Rob,
Mine comes up with a choice in the lower left corner, "SKIP INTRO", so I
did, then there were several choices.

Chuck Hladik
Rutland Railroad
Virginia Division
NMRA L5756




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Jim,

Excellent effort. Very commendable.
Greatly appreciate being able to access this up to date information
from the far flung antipodees.

Phil Morrow
Melbourne
Australia


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Jim & Lisa Hayes"
<jimandlisa97225@...> wrote:

I have created an unofficial Sunshine Models website. It contains my
All-time lists plus current price lists, PDFs of recent flyers,

info on

upcoming meets, and links to other steam era resin kit

manufacturers.

If you see any errors or updates that are needed or have fresher

info,

especially on upcoming Sunshine appearances, please let me know.



Try it at www.sunshinekits.com <http://www.sunshinekits.com/> and

let me

know what you think.



Jim Hayes

Portland Oregon



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My standard is Kadee #58's. I also neuter them of their glad hands
since I do not use magnetic uncoupling. An added benefit of neutering
is the effort to uncouple with a skewer is even easier since the
knuckles are free of the resistance of moving the gladhands
along for the ride as well.

I proved this while operating at a friends house and finding it
slightly more difficult to uncouple. I realized it had to be the glad
hands on his equipment requiring more effort while twisting the skewer.

By the way, instead of barbeque skewers, I actually use
an 8 inch length of 3/16" diameter wood dowel with one end sharpened
in a pencil sharpener and deburred with some sandpaper.

Tom Wencl
Lemont, IL

I have found that the #58 and #5 couplers work together, and am converting gradually (perhaps too gradually) to the 58s.

Some mention was made of problems on curves because the 58s have a smaller gathering range. May I also mention the potential problem with vertical curves? Particularly, be careful of the change from level track to the start of a grade. The 58s require a more gradual vertical transition from level to grade. Cars equipped with 58s are more likely to uncouple at that transition point, where cars equipped with 5s would not have a problem.

On my old layout in California, I had to go back and ease the transition somewhat at one place, adjusting risers and roadbed. I now use two hi-cube cars (not within the STMFC time period, but helpful) equipped with #58 couplers to test all trackwork. If they stay together, chances are everything else will too.

Peter Weiglin
Amelia, OH

Thanks for that; DC has jumped up several notches higher on my 'places to
go' list.

Though that Suitland is the actual name... wow. I thought it was a joke of
some sort. :)

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC

Rocky and others, the reference to Suitland is to the former location of
the
National Archives depository in Suitland, Maryland. This building had a
large undergound vault which contained, among many other records, the ICC
Valuation records for all railroads operating in the United States between
1913 & 1921. When the National Archives built a new research facility in
College Park, Maryland all ICC records were moved to the College Park
facility, also know as Archives II. Both communities are suburbs of
Washington DC. And while you can find some ICC Valuation records in other
locations around the country, College Park is the only place to access the
entire collection, and it must be done in person. And know the collection
is
not 100% complete, some files were never transfer from the ICC to the
Archives.

Here is the link to info about the College Park site
<http://www.archives.gov/dc-metro/college-park/>. Also go to
<www.archives.gov> for general info about accessing the archives. Do a
search for ICC valution reports.

The Suitland facility reminded me of a small private college library.
Small
cozy research room, long oak tables, one photocopier, room for about four
people to spread out. The College Park facility is large, light and airy
(the balcony is actually used by staff to observe researches to make sure
they are not mis-handle archive materials). There are multiple
photocopies,
plus outlets for laptops, and comfortable study tables, with plenty of
room
for numerous people. Secuity has been tightend considerably since 911, ie
a
guards at the end of the drive as well as the parking ramp, airport type
detectors as you enter the building, etc. There is a nice cafeteria on
site
(Suitland had a rundown fast food place down the street).

The March and April 2008 issues of Railroad Model Craftsman have a two
part
article on using the Archives and accessing the ICC reports. The article
is
written by David Lambert and is based upon his recent presentation at
Naperville.

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org

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11:07 AM





Yahoo! Groups Links





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http://hydrorail.rrpicturearchives.net/ - Rail Photos

Rocky and others, the reference to Suitland is to the former location of the
National Archives depository in Suitland, Maryland. This building had a
large undergound vault which contained, among many other records, the ICC
Valuation records for all railroads operating in the United States between
1913 & 1921. When the National Archives built a new research facility in
College Park, Maryland all ICC records were moved to the College Park
facility, also know as Archives II. Both communities are suburbs of
Washington DC. And while you can find some ICC Valuation records in other
locations around the country, College Park is the only place to access the
entire collection, and it must be done in person. And know the collection is
not 100% complete, some files were never transfer from the ICC to the
Archives.

Here is the link to info about the College Park site
<http://www.archives.gov/dc-metro/college-park/>. Also go to
<www.archives.gov> for general info about accessing the archives. Do a
search for ICC valution reports.

The Suitland facility reminded me of a small private college library. Small
cozy research room, long oak tables, one photocopier, room for about four
people to spread out. The College Park facility is large, light and airy
(the balcony is actually used by staff to observe researches to make sure
they are not mis-handle archive materials). There are multiple photocopies,
plus outlets for laptops, and comfortable study tables, with plenty of room
for numerous people. Secuity has been tightend considerably since 911, ie a
guards at the end of the drive as well as the parking ramp, airport type
detectors as you enter the building, etc. There is a nice cafeteria on site
(Suitland had a rundown fast food place down the street).

The March and April 2008 issues of Railroad Model Craftsman have a two part
article on using the Archives and accessing the ICC reports. The article is
written by David Lambert and is based upon his recent presentation at
Naperville.

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1323 - Release Date: 3/10/2008
11:07 AM

What caught MY eye in the very nice image, however, was the New Haven end door auto car to its right.

Jace Kahn, General Manager
Ceres and Canisteo RR Co.

Schuyler, Though both ex-Frisco cars were reconditioned by St. Louis
Refrigerator about the same time, AC&Y 3930 was in the last leased
series of 22 cars and was rebuilt as a 10'2 IH car vs. 10'8 for AC&Y
3918, thus the visual difference in the upper steel plate. Why the
IH height was changed is unknown except the tire companies no doubt
had a say? Additionally, AC&Y sported a facinating roster of single-
sheathed 40' Mathers and ex-P&N 40' autocars, the latter which also
beg to be a resin kit offering. Bob

_________________________________________________________________
Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give.
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Hi Jeff,

Maybe its my browser, but I have no idea how to find the "Heritage" link for the site - the only button my browser (IE) sees is the "enter site" button - which produces a video of a spinning welded hopper, a maple leaf logo and then a woman in a suit looking at the camera. Then nothing. Do you have to wait for something after the speaker finishes, or is there some trick to viewing this???

Rob Kirkham

Frank Valoczy wrote:

Could someone please illuminate this Great-white-norther's wintry darkness and explain what 'Suitland' is? :)

Don't apologize, eh? It's a town in Maryland, formerly home to a lot of ICC documents.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history

Could someone please illuminate this Great-white-norther's wintry darkness
and explain what 'Suitland' is? :)

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC

Doug Harding wrote:

Tony going to Suitland won't work. All the ICC Valuation materials
were moved to College Park when that facility was built some 10+ years
ago..

Thanks, Doug (and a few off-list responders too): so please
substitute "College Park" for "Suitland" in my previous message. I'm
still hoping for an answer to it.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history




Yahoo! Groups Links





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-----
http://hydrorail.hostwq.net/index.html - Rails along the Fraser
http://hydrorail.rrpicturearchives.net/ - Rail Photos

Doug Harding wrote:

Tony going to Suitland won't work. All the ICC Valuation materials were moved to College Park when that facility was built some 10+ years ago..

Thanks, Doug (and a few off-list responders too): so please substitute "College Park" for "Suitland" in my previous message. I'm still hoping for an answer to it.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history

Tony going to Suitland won't work. All the ICC Valuation materials were
moved to College Park when that facility was built some 10+ years ago..

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1323 - Release Date: 3/10/2008
11:07 AM

Jack I have #58's on my cabooses and some freight cars. #5's on locos and
everything else. I have no magnets, just bamboo skewers and have no serious
problems uncoupling. Some still prefer to hook the "hose" while others
prefer to insert and twirl, either seems to work.

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org

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Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1323 - Release Date: 3/10/2008
11:07 AM

Jack and group,

. . . so I have a related question.
Besides couplers, to make my freight cars look prototypical to the steam era and improve operations
I should replace any plastic wheelsets that I have with metal ones. However, when I went to purchase
a couple of NWSL wheels I discovered that they come in various sizes. This was just totally
bewildering to me. How do I determine which is the right size? Do I use the same size for my entire
fleet? I've noticed that several of my cars have RP-25 wheelsets.
Are these compatible with NWSL or do I need to change them as well? Thanks for your assistance.

Robert "Rocky" Jackson

I ordered directly from Kadee since I was placing such a large order (100
pair total). Yes, you should replace your wheelsets, primarily since plastic
ones tend to cause problems with grime and rail contact problems for
engines. While many modelers are now using Code 88 metal wheels, I'm not
making this conversion since I don't want to need to go back and retune my
trackwork. (All of my trackwork is handlaid and my approach has been to
check track after laying for consistent operation. If one spot continually
causes problems, I adjust the track. Once everything is working fine, future
problems tend to be related to the equipment (binding, non-free-wheeling
trucks, accumulated dirt) and I turn my attention to the cars. Since most
operating sessions have zero derailments, I don't want to change wheelsets
now.)

I use Kadee Code 110 wheelsets to swap out plastic wheelsets. If I was
starting out from scratch, I'd use Code 88 wheels and maybe when everything
else is done, I'll consider that conversion too. I'm sure that someone else
can advise you on Code 88 wheelsets...

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com

For full disclosure on the following, I do live near, and know, the manufacturer, and the purveyor,
of Reboxx wheelsets. So, this may appear to be a paid advertisement for them. But it's not.

Rocky, there are a number of reasons to change to metal wheelsets besides the appearance. Metal
wheels will stay cleaner than plastic. There is some evidence that some plastic wheels (likely not
all) actually contribute to the creation of wheel crud. Jack says he's used Kadee wheelsets to
eliminate plastic wheelsets. At least they are metal. However, they are on plastic axles, and if
your equipment spends a good deal of time on static display, you may find that the axles will, over
time, bend from the weight of the model. This may be hard to believe, but several of us in our club
have experienced this. Metal axles do not have this admittedly minor problem.

I have many cars with Kadee trucks under them, that being, for a good while, my personal standard.
While others on this list vehemently disagree, I prefer the visual effect of the springs, thin as
they are, over cast springs in rigid trucks. And I also believe that the potential for
"equalization," conformance to unevenness in the track, is an advantage. In operating a yard
consistently, I've seen instances where this has worked to prevent derailments. But as to the
wheels in Kadee wheelsets, they are made with a metal which is not perfectly smooth, particularly
when they begin to wear. Eventually, they begin to collect crud similarly to, but not as badly as,
plastic wheelsets. Some modelers "polish" the treads after they have painted the wheels to get a
bright metal finish; if done with a wire brush in a motor tool, this creates very small scratches in
the tread, which serve to attract crud.

I now typically replace all wheelsets on new equipment with Reboxx Code 88 wheelsets. They look
better, being narrower, and the surface is smoother and looks more like a prototype wheel as well.
Our track at the club (which is my only operating location, not having a home layout) is laid very
well by a modeler who rather specializes in trackwork, and is to NMRA standards with respect to
gauge, back to back of guard rails and so on. There have been zero operating problems which could
be attributed to the use of Code 88 wheels.

And lastly, the use of Reboxx with their varying axle lengths to suit specific trucks, while a bit
of a pain to keep the right lengths on hand, does result in trucks which have truly minimal rolling
resistance. The benefit of this isn't in the car; the benefit is in the improved capability which
seems to result in your locomotive's ability to pull more cars. This last Saturday, at our
operations session, I was barely able to pull one cut of 13 cars off the rear of a train to put into
the yard; I was working against a very slight grade (~0.25%). I was then able to pull a cut of 14
cars out of the yard onto the main to add to the train, against the same grade, with no difficulty
at all. The answer is in the fact that the first cut had a) plastic wheels on b) plastic axles in
c) not so hot trucks. The second cut had almost all trucks replaced with higher quality trucks,
with correctly fitted Reboxx wheels.

SGL

Yes, they do work. From time to time, in operating a yard at our club, I do find that 58s are a tad
more finicky about being adjusted so that they will center. I don't consider this a big deal,
because the couplers need to center >anyway<. It's probably painfully obvious that a smaller
coupler head will have a smaller gathering range. That said, I do think that they look sufficiently
better that it is worth the small amount of extra effort involved in making them work properly.

SGL

On Mar 10, 2008, at 6:19 AM, destron@vcn.bc.ca wrote:

I saw a photo of UP 49191 and noticed yet another application of a
vertically-ribbed end, in yet another variation: this one seems to be
a
5+5 outward, with blank spaces at either side (no ribs under the
ladder,
or on the corresponding space on the opposite side).

I'm curious, did all the cars in this series have this end?

No. The S-40-10 class stock cars were rebuilt in 1934 from B-50-11
class box cars built new in 1914. Some of the B-50- 11s had Vulcan
ends, some had 5-5-5 Murphy horizontally corrugated ends. The UP data
sheets for these cars, both before and after conversion to stock cars,
described the ends merely as "corrugated," without indicating which
groups had Vulcan ends and which had Murphy ends. So the only way to
know which cars had which is photographic evidence, of which there is
quite a lot.

Richard Hendrickson

Hello, Rocky!

Two of the best way to check axle length are measuring
or go to:

http://www.reboxx.com/wheelsets.htm

Reboxx site has the axle size.

Mark Morgan



--- Carrock1998@aol.com wrote:

Jack and group,

Gid you order them direct or is their a discount
hobby store where you
ordered yours from? I'm fairely new to the hobby so
I have a related question.
Besides couplers, to make my freight cars look
prototypical to the steam era
and improve operations I should replace any plastic
wheelsets that I have with
metal ones. However, when I went to purchase a
couple of NWSL wheels I
discovered that they come in various sizes. This
was just totally bewildering to
me. How do I determine which is the right size?
Do I use the same size for
my entire fleet? I've noticed that several of my
cars have RP-25 wheelsets.
Are these compatible with NWSL or do I need to
change them as well? Thanks
for your assistance.

Robert "Rocky" Jackson

Thanks Mark...I just ordered about 90 pair...

Yes, Jack. I converted and love the way they make

the

cars appear, especially a hopper or tankcar.>
Sincerely, Mark Morgan

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