Date   

Re: Pere Marquette boxcar questions

water.kresse@...
 

Folks,

It becomes more complicated because of the 1947 merger into the C&O. First many of the 85000-series cars became 55XXX-series PM single-door box cars. Then for some reason these cars didn't appear to get C&O reporting marks. Other series seems to have picked up the C&O 255XXX series numbers.

Al Kresse

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
On Mar 15, 2008, at 9:44 PM, destron@... wrote:

I have the excellent book on PM freight cars which has plenty of
photos of
the 85000-85999 series boxcars.

I would have two questions about these cars.

According to the book, by 1943 all of them were converted to
single-door
cars by either rebuilding to single 6-foot doors, or by sealing the
auxiliary doors. Further, it says that by 1945 some were renumbered
and
assigned to specific services, and that all of the 2500 cars were
gone by
1957. Does anyone know when these cars were first started to be taken
off
the lists, and what was done with them?

My second question: does anyone have any photos of these cars or of
the
86000-87499 series cars after rebuilding to single six foot doors,
that
they would be willing to share and permit to be published? If yes,
please
let me know off-list, and I will share the details then.
Frank, I have a print from Bob's Photo Service of PM 84521, renumbered
after it got six foot corrugated steel single doors. The photo was
taken at Ft. Bragg, NC in Jan., 1952 by Col. Chet McCoid. I also have
a print of the photo of PM 85908 which appeared in the PM box car book.
Having been photographed at Los Angeles in 1941 by a 14-year-old Bob
McVay with a Brownie box camera, it's not a superb photo but could be
improved with some fiddling in Photoshop. I'll be happy to scan both
of these for you if you wish.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Pere Marquette boxcar questions

destron@...
 

Richard,

Thanks for that offer - it would be immensely appreciated.

I'm also sending you a message off-list, though from my university account
- I've been having issues with people not getting my mail from this
address.

Thanks,
Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC

Frank, I have a print from Bob's Photo Service of PM 84521, renumbered
after it got six foot corrugated steel single doors. The photo was
taken at Ft. Bragg, NC in Jan., 1952 by Col. Chet McCoid. I also have
a print of the photo of PM 85908 which appeared in the PM box car book.
Having been photographed at Los Angeles in 1941 by a 14-year-old Bob
McVay with a Brownie box camera, it's not a superb photo but could be
improved with some fiddling in Photoshop. I'll be happy to scan both
of these for you if you wish.

Richard Hendrickson





------------------------------------

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Sunshine Models Santa Fe Cabooses #84.1 and 84.2

charles slater
 

If you purchased one of the Sunshine Models Santa Fe 500 or 2201 class cabooses from Maritn Lofton earlier this month the instruction sheet has many errers and some omissions. I have written a better set of instructions for these cars that I will E-Mail to you if you contact me off this list at;
atsfcondr42@...

Charlie Slater
Pattern maker for these models
_________________________________________________________________
Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play chicktionary!
http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_wlhmtextlink1_feb


Re: Pere Marquette boxcar questions

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Mar 15, 2008, at 9:44 PM, destron@... wrote:

I have the excellent book on PM freight cars which has plenty of
photos of
the 85000-85999 series boxcars.

I would have two questions about these cars.

According to the book, by 1943 all of them were converted to
single-door
cars by either rebuilding to single 6-foot doors, or by sealing the
auxiliary doors. Further, it says that by 1945 some were renumbered
and
assigned to specific services, and that all of the 2500 cars were
gone by
1957. Does anyone know when these cars were first started to be taken
off
the lists, and what was done with them?

My second question: does anyone have any photos of these cars or of
the
86000-87499 series cars after rebuilding to single six foot doors,
that
they would be willing to share and permit to be published? If yes,
please
let me know off-list, and I will share the details then.
Frank, I have a print from Bob's Photo Service of PM 84521, renumbered
after it got six foot corrugated steel single doors. The photo was
taken at Ft. Bragg, NC in Jan., 1952 by Col. Chet McCoid. I also have
a print of the photo of PM 85908 which appeared in the PM box car book.
Having been photographed at Los Angeles in 1941 by a 14-year-old Bob
McVay with a Brownie box camera, it's not a superb photo but could be
improved with some fiddling in Photoshop. I'll be happy to scan both
of these for you if you wish.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: 2008 Naperville Dates

pierreoliver2003 <pierre.oliver@...>
 

For what it's worth, with my work schedule, the event couldn't be any
better timed.
To misquote " You can please some of the people some of the time..."

Pierre Oliver

--- In STMFC@..., Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:

I too wish it could be moved. Seems it always falls on NPR's pledge
week, an annoyance that I wish could be avoided!
-Andy Carlson

brianehni <behni@...> wrote:
I wish this could be moved to a different weekend; it's always on
opening day of deer season.









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: 2008 Naperville Dates

Carl J. Marsico <Carlmarsico@...>
 

A few years ago, a local club set up a swap on a Friday night in Elmhurst, IL while the Naperville meet was going on, and both attendance and sales were on the weak side. I'd already signed up for a table before I became aware of the conflict. On the positive side, some of us managed to mitigate the damage with some last minute "I really don't feel like taking this back home" trades when we were shutting down.

Carl J. Marsico

Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:
I too wish it could be moved. Seems it always falls on NPR's pledge week, an annoyance that I wish could be avoided!
-Andy Carlson

brianehni <behni@...> wrote:
I wish this could be moved to a different weekend; it's always on opening day of deer season.


Re: 2008 Naperville Dates

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Martin works every year with the hotel to find a date on which they can offer minimal rates. Things like deer season may be the exact reason he always settles on this particular weekend.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: 2008 Naperville Dates

Andy Carlson
 

I too wish it could be moved. Seems it always falls on NPR's pledge week, an annoyance that I wish could be avoided!
-Andy Carlson

brianehni <behni@...> wrote:
I wish this could be moved to a different weekend; it's always on opening day of deer season.


Re: 2008 Naperville Dates

brianehni <behni@...>
 

I wish this could be moved to a different weekend; it's always on opening day of deer season.

Brian Ehni

--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:

On Mar 19, 2008, at 8:52 AM, Gene Deimling wrote:

Has the schedule been set for Naperville this year?
October 30 - November 2.

Richard Hendrickson


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: ratio of 40 ft. to 50 ft. box cars

ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@..., "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...> wrote:
Did you do a search of the archives? Tim Gilbert undoubtedly ran the
numbers on this.
Search for what? What's the key word? I thought someone might have the
number on the tip of their tongue.

Sorry to take up band width.

Ed


Re: 2008 Naperville Dates

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Mar 19, 2008, at 8:52 AM, Gene Deimling wrote:

Has the schedule been set for Naperville this year?
October 30 - November 2.

Richard Hendrickson


2008 Naperville Dates

Gene Deimling <losgatos48@...>
 

Has the schedule been set for Naperville this year?

Thanks,
Gene Deimling
El Dorado Hills, CA


Re: ratio of 40 ft. to 50 ft. box cars

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Ed Mines asked:
"Can someone give an accurate number for this in 1960?"

Did you do a search of the archives? Tim Gilbert undoubtedly ran the
numbers on this.


Ben Hom


Re: ratio of 40 ft. to 50 ft. box cars

Robert <riverob@...>
 

Ratio is 40/50 or 4/5 or 0.80 in any year.

Rob Simpson

--- In STMFC@..., "ed_mines" <ed_mines@...> wrote:

Can someone give an accurate number for this in 1960?

I'm one of those guys stuck in the '40s.

Ed


Re: Draft gear ratings

devansprr
 

--- In STMFC@..., "proto48er" <atkott@...> wrote:

Dave -

I do not know what interests you the most, prototype or model curve
resistance.
Mainly model, but trying to understand the prototype.

.... This testing was done by a couple of engineers (in a
careful scientific manner) back in the early 1960's which
demonstrated this with On3 models. The results were used to set the
On3 wheel standards used by Grandt Line.

In short, unless you model in PROTO:48 or PROTO:87(?), the prototype
curve resistance does not truly represent the situation on the
model. It is apples and oranges!

You need to try an experiment for yourselves! Use the same steam era
freight cars and trucks. First use the stock NMRA wheels. Then turn
prototype dimensions on the wheels and put them back under the same
freight cars, etc. Check curve resistance in each case, or pulling
capacity of the same loco. See what result!

A.T. Kott
A.T.

Thanks for the info - do you know if any of the data from the On3
testing is available anywhere? Could provide some useful insight into
the history of MRR performance testing.

To all,

We are looking into this with the hope of finding a better curve
compensation factor for grades when designing layouts (especially a
helix).

There has been an extensive thread on the LDSig group (over 160 posts
so far), with some intense discussion (full disclosure - some of it
mine.) NMRA's Layout Design Sig, being its own incorporated
organization, may sponsor some research in this area.

I performed some analysis based on locomotive drawbar ratings for
steam era (where I will be modeling), but was looking to find max
tonnage for modern trains to contrast increases in prototype max
tonnage ratings as part of the analysis. I thought drawbar ratings may
provide insight, but I think the other postings in this thread are
correct, look at max TF/TE ratings by era.

If you are interested in the subject, please check out the LDsig group.

Being a better engineer than modeler, I will likely be working this
topic for the LDsig, but I continue to look to this group to figure
out how to create a reasonably accurate recreation of WWII PRR.

Sorry for the interruption.

Thanks,
Dave Evans


ratio of 40 ft. to 50 ft. box cars

ed_mines
 

Can someone give an accurate number for this in 1960?

I'm one of those guys stuck in the '40s.

Ed


Re: Center Sills (Was: Draft gear ratings)

John Hile <john66h@...>
 

FWIW, here are the center sill requirements from the MCB
Specifications for class III, IV, and V tank cars...

Minimum center sill area between points of impact, 30 sq. in.

Ratio, stress to end load, not more than 0.05.

Length of center or draft sill members between braces shall not be
more than twenty times the depth of the member, measures in the
direction in which buckling may take place (Fig. 4).

Continuous sills having cover plates are preferable.

If other construction is used, the effective cross-sectional area,
including connections, must be at least as strong as continuous sills.


The "Fig. 4" referenced is of a built-up center sill with a flat top
plate, channel sides (flanges facing out), no bottom plate, and an
optional angle to reinforce the inside bottom flange of the channel
side, thus increasing the width of the bottom flange. The distance
across the top plate is labeled "A", "B" is the bottom width of the
side channel, "C" is the bottom with of the side channel with
additional angle applied, and "D" is the overall height of the center
sill - channel plus top plate. Each dimension has two arrows to show
buckling forces, parallel to each dimension line, in both directions.
The text below the drawing reads: "Arrow heads show direction in
which buckling may take place. Brace may consist of castings
supporting the members against buckling, or cover plates, or lattice
work, or reinforcing by means of angles etc."


-John Hile


Re: Air Brush Compressors

Walter M. Clark
 

If anyone read my message about my recent move they know I have a
nitrogen tank to back-up my compressor. Actually have two
compressors, a larger one in the garage and a smaller, much quieter
Paasche one for airbrushing and grit blasting. I have all the
fittings necessary to use either compressor for painting and grit
blasting, so I can go through three different propellant sources
before I have to quit and go to bed <g>. I've only used the nitrogen
a couple of times when my previous cheepo compressors failed in the
middle of a job. The first time I learned not to depend on the
downstream valve on the regulator to keep the remaining nitrogen in
the tank at the end of the session. After filling it I now use the
valve at the top of the tank to turn off the flow and preserve the
rest of the gas for the next need. And, as I said, the movers brought
it with the rest of my stuff with no hassle <VBG>.

Walter M. Clark
Time stopped in November 1941
Pullman, Washington, which has a stylized heavyweight passenger car as
part of the city seal, even though no one seems to be sure how the
town got its name.

--- In STMFC@..., "Schuyler Larrabee"
<schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:

I have one of those. Quiet, yes, powerful, yes, dry, yes. Except
for the frost on the regulator . .
.

And maybe it's my personal situation, but taking that thing to get
refilled or exchanged, is a major
undertaking. I have to take time from work, drive to a part of town
I never go to, and hope he
stays open. I call, but sometimes "Yeah, I'll be here for another
hour" isn't true. And being
without it when I REALLY want to paint is a drag.

Compressor for me.

SGL

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On
Behalf Of Andy Carlson
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 10:43 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re:Air Brush Compressors

A 20 pound CO2 bottle (or larger) with a bottle regulator will be
forever quiet, forever dry (in
both water and oil) and
only needs inexpensive occasional refills (unless one is an overly
extravagant user of air during
the clean-up process). A
CO2 system for spraying is a fine indulgence worthy of the modest
added costs over a cheap air
compressor, plus bottle
regulators are much more stable than most Home Depot air tank
regulators. I got my bottle for
free, and the air place I
get refills from pays for the hydra-tests if I use the exchange
program, which is nice because
then I don't have to wait for
the refill. Charles Givens told me that he gets 50-60 paint jobs
per bottle fill. Some might
consider this an option????
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

Paul Catapano <pc66ot@... <mailto:pc66ot%40sbcglobal.net> > wrote:
Buy one that will do
double duty for
air tools in the garage (Nail guns, impact wrench's). A hobby
compressor will cost nearly as much
and you will get more
use out of it.
I have several different compressors in mind, Campbell Hausfield,
Emglo (The most expensive),
Ingersol Rand, and
Senco (By the maker of most of my nail guns, but an Emglo with a
different paint job).
I have been using the Ingersol Rand for about 15 years no
problems, and the Senco for about 5
years no problems. I
have a pressure regulator/moisture trap attachment that I use when
I hook up my air brush.

Paul Catapano
Littlerock Subdivision
Atlantic Inland Railway Co.

"All it takes to start an insane asylum
is a big room and the right kind of people"







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Re: car condition on 31 August 57

Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
 

In this consist, they are listed as "Stock cars." Any thoughts about how to interpret this? It
IS< a second-hand document that's quoted.
SGL
----------------

I can think of four possibilities, none of which was unusual in 1957.

1. Wrong car number.
2. A wrong initial
3. Illegible initial
4. Wrong car type/


Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478


Re: Draft gear ratings

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

They may have been designing against yield strength rather than ultimate strength, which would be around 36 ksi rather 60 ksi. Also, the center sill - rather than the draft gear - had to bear the buff or compressive loads. A member that can withstand a given tensile load can fail because of buckling at a load of just a fraction of the tensile strength. The area limit may have been an attempt to provide a certain level of buckling resistance, based on an assumption that the center sill would be two channels or flanged beams with some particular spacing and a symmetrical arrangement. With that assumption I think you could back out what sort of cross-sectional area you'd need to withstand the anticipated buff force.

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Storzek

This assumption would seem to be borne out by the specifications for
the then current production C;ass III cars; the draft gear had to have
a minimum of 150,000 lbs. capacity, but the specification also
required 12.5 sq. in. of steel in the cross section of the center
sill. Even common low carbon mild steels are rated somewhere around
60,000 lbs. / sq. in. tensile strength, so in theory the centersill
sill could withstand 750,000 lbs. of pull. I do understand the concept
of design safety factors, but a factor of five seems excessive, so I
conclude that loadings that would exceed that which could fully
compress the draft gear were anticipated.

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