Date   

Re: Request for photos of AC&F Type 11 tank cars

Al Campbell
 

Hello Rob: So far as private owner tank car from AC&F go I would use a copy
of Ed Kaminski's AC&F Tank Car book. Hundreds of pictures of major owners
as well as private owners. One of the best books on the subject. Excuse the
plug for the book. Al Campbell



**************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car
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Re: Buyer Beware: InterMountain Milwaukee Road Rib-Side Box Car

lnbill <bwelch@...>
 

Was this car actually cut/tooled by IM or are they using dies cut by
someone else? Seems like I have been hearing about some things like
this car, B&O Wagon, etc top that have been around for a couple of
years that were cut by someone with no production outlet/capacity.

Hope I am not starting another rumor, but only continuing one.

Bill Welch

Bill Welch


--- In STMFC@..., "gn3397" <heninger@...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@> wrote:

STMFC Discussion Group,
In case any STMFC members were considering buying any of the new
Milwaukee Road postwar rib-side box cars produced by
InterMountain,
you
should be aware that the model is royally screwed up and
unfixable.

It is unfortunate that these errors were made, especially as MILW
ribside car photos and plans aren't rare. A review of the test
shots of
the GN plywood side boxcar also reveal some egregious
deficiencies,
again confusing, because photos of these cars aren't rare. IM is
supposed to be fixing them, but we will see. Makes me wonder what
the
covered hopper will look like.


Sincerely,
Robert D. Heninger
Stanley, ND


Re: Buyer Beware: InterMountain Milwaukee Road Rib-Side Box Car

gn3397 <heninger@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...> wrote:

STMFC Discussion Group,
In case any STMFC members were considering buying any of the new
Milwaukee Road postwar rib-side box cars produced by InterMountain,
you
should be aware that the model is royally screwed up and unfixable.
It is unfortunate that these errors were made, especially as MILW
ribside car photos and plans aren't rare. A review of the test shots of
the GN plywood side boxcar also reveal some egregious deficiencies,
again confusing, because photos of these cars aren't rare. IM is
supposed to be fixing them, but we will see. Makes me wonder what the
covered hopper will look like.


Sincerely,
Robert D. Heninger
Stanley, ND


Re: Buyer Beware: InterMountain Milwaukee Road Rib-Side Box Car

joe binish <joebinish@...>
 

Whew,
Now I can justify building the kit I got for $20!
joe binish

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Hawkins" <hawk0621@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 10:41 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Buyer Beware: InterMountain Milwaukee Road Rib-Side Box Car



On Apr 17, 2008, at 10:10 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:

With all that being said, what is YOUR current vote for the best (not
perfect) MILW ribside in HO?
Elden,
The Sunshine kit #41. Of course, this is only one version of the many
versions that were built.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins




------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




Re: Buyer Beware: InterMountain Milwaukee Road Rib-Side Box Car

Ed Hawkins
 

On Apr 17, 2008, at 10:10 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:

With all that being said, what is YOUR current vote for the best (not
perfect) MILW ribside in HO?
Elden,
The Sunshine kit #41. Of course, this is only one version of the many
versions that were built.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Buyer Beware: InterMountain Milwaukee Road Rib-Side Box Car

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

Thanks Ed,
I have cancelled my order if possible (meaning I hope my guy can cancel)!

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Buyer Beware: InterMountain Milwaukee Road Rib-Side Box Car

Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
 

Ed;



Thanks for bring this to our attention. This seems to be one of the only
places you can go to hear honest information.



With all that being said, what is YOUR current vote for the best (not
perfect) MILW ribside in HO?



Elden Gatwood





________________________________

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Ed
Hawkins
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 10:11 AM
To: STMFC Discussion Group
Subject: [STMFC] Buyer Beware: InterMountain Milwaukee Road Rib-Side Box Car



STMFC Discussion Group,
In case any STMFC members were considering buying any of the new
Milwaukee Road postwar rib-side box cars produced by InterMountain, you
should be aware that the model is royally screwed up and unfixable. The
sides have a couple of deficiencies, and the ends and roof are simply
awful. In addition to InterMountain's apparent inability to interpret
plans and photographs, they also didn't bother to understand the body
of these cars were all welded. They actually went to extra work to add
a row of rivets on the sides of the roof eaves where there should be no
rivets present. I'm posting this message so that potential buyers are
made aware of major shortcomings with the model.

Sides:
The right side of the car lacks a horizontal raised overlapping seam
that runs continuously just above the side sill. The left side has it,
so they just forgot to tool it one the right side! Also, the sides lack
the slightly recessed sheets on both sides of the door frame. On the
model the area around the door frame is flush with the ribbed side
sheets. InterMountain got the recessed side pans nearest the ends
right, but missed doing the same thing to the side pan sheets on both
sides of the door.

Ends:
Instead of the ends of the main corrugations being rounded (like all
Improved Dreadnaught Ends were), the model's ends have angled flat
spots that basically look like the outer portions were filed flat
(i.e., chamfer). Also, unlike AAR box cars, the top of the Milwaukee
Road end was flat across the top and the roof was prefabricated by
welding and applied as a single unit. This resulted in a prominent
horizontal flange at the top of the end that is quite visible in any
photo showing the end. The top of the InterMountain end is flush and
lacks this flange.

Roof:
The roof is integral to the sides and ends that form the car body. The
formed double roof corrugations and the wider pressed stiffener on the
outboard end panels are too short near the edge of the roof. The
prototype cars had the raised corrugations fair down to the edge of the
roof, whereas corrugations on the model abruptly stop approximately 4"
short of the edge of the roof. Refer to page 55 of RP CYC Vol. 13 for
what the roof should look like. Some prototype cars had diagonal panel
roofs.

Floor:
The separate floor has a wide cast-on coupler box, whereas this should
be left off and either allow modelers to add couplers of their choice,
or for the assembled models in China, have separate coupler boxes to
accept Kadee couplers like InterMountain has done on many of their kits
in the past. The molded-on coupler boxes is a step backwards.

After finding the features of the car body as they are, I didn't bother
to look at the underframe and other detail parts (what's the point?).

One last comment about the model's construction method. I truly don't
understand why on this model InterMountain reverted back to the
Athearn-type car body, which has an integral roof with the sides and
ends rather than the floor being integral and a separate roof. The
latter method has been used by InterMountain for the past 20 years.
This is not an error as such, but my personal preference is to have the
integral floor and separate roof vs. an integral roof and separate
floor.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Pittsburg & West Virginia

Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
 

Chuck;



It worked reasonable well, but I want to find some corrugated material of
slightly larger dimension (wider spacing) and made of something other than
styrene (metal), so I can do a better job of them. The only reason I did
what I did was expediency, and the styrene rod is easy to glue on (start in
the middle and work toward each end, holding gently in place and gluing as
you go; cut off excess), and shouldn't come off (which is a problem for me
for numerous reasons).



Oh, and while I don't want to change the "thread" name, the P&WV spelled
Pittsburgh the way the city has for these many years, and not like the
Pittsburg & Shawmut did.



Now, who is going to do a decent alternate standard twin offset hopper for
us? Arrgghhh.



Elden Gatwood



________________________________

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
RUTLANDRS@...
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 9:01 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Pittsburg & West Virginia



Eldon,
I've often thought that a "strip" from a window screen or smaller mesh
might work for the tie downs. Haven't tried it yet, but........ Your idea
sounds like it works pretty well.
Thanks,


Chuck Hladik
Rutland Railroad
Virginia Division
NMRA L5756

**************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car
listings at AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851
<http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851> )


Re: Buyer Beware: InterMountain Milwaukee Road Rib-Side Box Car

Carl J. Marsico <Carlmarsico@...>
 

...and after these don't sell (to those that don't treat MR like a Bible), IMRC will assume "MILW doesn't sell, let's do (foobie) WP ex-MILW cars (in more numbers than WP actually had)" and after that, factory-weathered cars of each when the dust and cobwebs start to get out of hand.

Finally, it will be "we can't do any more railroad-specific cars because they don't sell." Maybe they need to join the Scenery Forum to be able to see the forest for the trees.

CJM

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...> wrote:
Ed Hawkins wrote:
"In case any STMFC members were considering buying any of the new
Milwaukee Road postwar rib-side box cars produced by InterMountain,
you should be aware that the model is royally screwed up and
unfixable."

This, of course, guarantees that the Model Railroader review will
say "this is an excellent model that many model rairoaders would be
happy to have on their layouts."

Ben Hom


Re: Modeling Iron Ore Pellets

Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "joe binish" <joebinish@...> wrote:

Anise seed makes really slick sugar beets.
Joe Binish
I've seen poppy seeds used to model taconite, to good effect.
Admittedly, the seeds are likely twice the proper size, but they are
perfect little spheres, and the natural color isn't bad for some of
the darker forms of taconite. Only problem is mice think they are a
delicacy.

Dennis


Re: Buyer Beware: InterMountain Milwaukee Road Rib-Side Box Car

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Ed Hawkins wrote:
"In case any STMFC members were considering buying any of the new
Milwaukee Road postwar rib-side box cars produced by InterMountain,
you should be aware that the model is royally screwed up and
unfixable."

This, of course, guarantees that the Model Railroader review will
say "this is an excellent model that many model rairoaders would be
happy to have on their layouts."


Ben Hom


Buyer Beware: InterMountain Milwaukee Road Rib-Side Box Car

Ed Hawkins
 

STMFC Discussion Group,
In case any STMFC members were considering buying any of the new Milwaukee Road postwar rib-side box cars produced by InterMountain, you should be aware that the model is royally screwed up and unfixable. The sides have a couple of deficiencies, and the ends and roof are simply awful. In addition to InterMountain's apparent inability to interpret plans and photographs, they also didn't bother to understand the body of these cars were all welded. They actually went to extra work to add a row of rivets on the sides of the roof eaves where there should be no rivets present. I'm posting this message so that potential buyers are made aware of major shortcomings with the model.

Sides:
The right side of the car lacks a horizontal raised overlapping seam that runs continuously just above the side sill. The left side has it, so they just forgot to tool it one the right side! Also, the sides lack the slightly recessed sheets on both sides of the door frame. On the model the area around the door frame is flush with the ribbed side sheets. InterMountain got the recessed side pans nearest the ends right, but missed doing the same thing to the side pan sheets on both sides of the door.

Ends:
Instead of the ends of the main corrugations being rounded (like all Improved Dreadnaught Ends were), the model's ends have angled flat spots that basically look like the outer portions were filed flat (i.e., chamfer). Also, unlike AAR box cars, the top of the Milwaukee Road end was flat across the top and the roof was prefabricated by welding and applied as a single unit. This resulted in a prominent horizontal flange at the top of the end that is quite visible in any photo showing the end. The top of the InterMountain end is flush and lacks this flange.

Roof:
The roof is integral to the sides and ends that form the car body. The formed double roof corrugations and the wider pressed stiffener on the outboard end panels are too short near the edge of the roof. The prototype cars had the raised corrugations fair down to the edge of the roof, whereas corrugations on the model abruptly stop approximately 4" short of the edge of the roof. Refer to page 55 of RP CYC Vol. 13 for what the roof should look like. Some prototype cars had diagonal panel roofs.

Floor:
The separate floor has a wide cast-on coupler box, whereas this should be left off and either allow modelers to add couplers of their choice, or for the assembled models in China, have separate coupler boxes to accept Kadee couplers like InterMountain has done on many of their kits in the past. The molded-on coupler boxes is a step backwards.

After finding the features of the car body as they are, I didn't bother to look at the underframe and other detail parts (what's the point?).

One last comment about the model's construction method. I truly don't understand why on this model InterMountain reverted back to the Athearn-type car body, which has an integral roof with the sides and ends rather than the floor being integral and a separate roof. The latter method has been used by InterMountain for the past 20 years. This is not an error as such, but my personal preference is to have the integral floor and separate roof vs. an integral roof and separate floor.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: M4 flat car loads - was CCB photo

Bruce Smith
 

On Apr 17, 2008, at 8:39 AM, pieter_roos wrote:
AFIK the U.S.S.R rarely used the red star on tanks during WWII, so it
would be unlikely on lend lease vehicles. Most likely they were just
plain olive drab. I'm trying to recall if any of the photos show tarp
covered vehicles in transit, as sold by Chooch.
Pieter,

I have seen one photo of tarp covered vehicles. The tarp is stenciled "M4" and "Front", the vehicle under the tarp appears to be a tank, but the proportions seem wrong for an M4, the flat car has a repack stencil of 1942, there are several additional tarped tanks, one per flat visible, and each has a stake with a placard in an adjacent stake pocket. The following is completely speculative, but I am suspicious that these MIGHT be something like the Duplex Drive Shermans, which would have been a high security cargo. The placard might be a security warning...

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Modeling sugarbeets

asychis@...
 

Thanks Joe! Great idea.

Jerry Michels



**************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car
listings at AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)


Re: M4 flat car loads - was CCB photo

Pieter Roos
 

AFIK the U.S.S.R rarely used the red star on tanks during WWII, so it
would be unlikely on lend lease vehicles. Most likely they were just
plain olive drab. I'm trying to recall if any of the photos show tarp
covered vehicles in transit, as sold by Chooch.

Pieter Roos


--- In STMFC@..., "Dennis Storzek" <destorzek@...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., "Bruce Smith" <smithbf@> wrote:
The M4A2 was diesel powered and was therefore more popular with
the British and Russians. So, with production of the M4A2
beginning in
April of 1942 and ending in May 1944, it seems as if perhaps M4A2
shipments might need to be modeled... which means I need to buy some
from
Hieser!

Regards
Bruce
That brings up an interesting question, would the lend-lease tanks
have been stenciled with the national insignia of their intended
destination at the factory? Would the Russian tanks have red stars
while in transit?

The reason I ask is my Dad was stationed at the air field in Nome
Alaska during the war. Nome was the last fuel stop in the US for P-39
fighters being flown to the USSR. The aircraft were ferried as far as
Fairbanks by the women pilots who flew ferry moves for ACT and turned
over to the Russians there. The Russians made one more fueling stop,
at Nome, before crossing the Bearing Strait and disappearing into
Siberia.

Dad had a copy of an official panoramic view of Nome Field (officially
Marks Field, but Dad said he never heard anyone call it that). The
photo was taken sometime in early 1944. Out of the three dozen or so
aircraft visible, at least thirty have red star insignia, discernable
even in the black & white photo.

I wonder if the same was done with armor?

Dennis


Re: M4 flat car loads - was CCB photo

Bruce Smith
 

On Apr 17, 2008, at 5:41 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:
In all the photos I looked at for many years, I have never seen an M4 with a
red star, but many with slogans painted on after they got there. Even T34
and other Soviet tanks seem to have been painted mostly with slogans. They
may have had the same experience with stars that the US tankers did. They
make for nice aiming points, and for US tankers, were rapidly painted out.
It is hard to make out the markings from the old B&W films, but the video Pennsy Steam and Electric Years, Vol 1 shows some WWII Lend Lease traffic (trucks) and if there are any markings, they appear to be restricted to serial numbers. Crates may also have some cyrillic lettering. Also, don't forget that the largest military vehicle export to Russia was 2.5 ton trucks.
http://www.o5m6.de/ForeignTrucks.html - this web site has drawings of Russian trucks still marked with USA and a serial number...

Note that many of the vehicles for the US Army were also ONLY marked with serial numbers. Vehicles painted with recognition markings appear to be pretty rare in domestic photos, and I have been told before that they were usually applied "in theater".

Also, we shipped many M4A4, which were the ones with slightly longer chassis,
to the British and French, which would also have been loaded eastward, too.
Also available from Heiser.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Re: Modeling Iron Ore Pellets

joe binish <joebinish@...>
 

Anise seed makes really slick sugar beets.
Joe Binish

----- Original Message -----
From: <asychis@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 8:20 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re:Modeling Iron Ore Pellets


Here's another question about interesting loads. How do you model
sugarbeets?

Jerry Michels



**************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car
listings at AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)




------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




Re: Pittsburg & West Virginia

Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
 

George;



I am currently near completion on a P&WV Bethlehem (7200 series) container
gon in HO. I used a Sunshine B&O O-63 as the base model, with added-on top
chord reinforcement from styrene strip. Grab placement and type are from the
photos of 7233 and 7227. I mashed .02" rod between two sheets of corrugated
sheet to make the lading band anchors, and glued them on top of the new top
chord reinforcement. The containers are from Walthers. I will use Jack
Consoli's perfect P&WV decals to finish it; and of source, some nice
weathering! The only thing missing is the specific container ld limit/lt
weight lettering to the right of the reporting marks, and I will plan on
adding that when I find something suitable. It appears these guys were
converted for that service in June '57.



The 7300 series PS-5's have a side similar to the Greenville gon made by
Proto2000/LifeLike/Walthers, but with a few nuances. The ends can be cut off
and new fixed ends will have to be fashioned that resemble those PS gon ends
(the PRR G36E also had them). I have not done this car yet, but plan to.



Happy modeling!



Elden Gatwood







________________________________

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Larry
Kline
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 8:21 AM
To: STMFC list
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Pittsburg & West Virginia



George Courtney wrote:
Can anyone inform me of an appropriate number for a P&WV 52' or 52'6"
gondola for 1958? Or direct me to a source?

The number series have already been posted. You can find photos of
both series at:
http://www.thepwvhiline.com/GonCrazy/index.html
<http://www.thepwvhiline.com/GonCrazy/index.html>
The site has many other P&WV freight car photos.

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA


Re: Pittsburg & West Virginia

Larry Kline
 

George Courtney wrote:
Can anyone inform me of an appropriate number for a P&WV 52' or 52'6"
gondola for 1958? Or direct me to a source?

The number series have already been posted. You can find photos of
both series at:
http://www.thepwvhiline.com/GonCrazy/index.html
The site has many other P&WV freight car photos.

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA


Re: M4 flat car loads - was CCB photo

Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
 

Guys;



The M4A2 was also the model of choice with the USMC, who rationalized fuel
shipments on diesel since their landing craft were thus equipped. That is
why you see many M4A2 going west, in contrast with M4A3 mostly going east.



In all the photos I looked at for many years, I have never seen an M4 with a
red star, but many with slogans painted on after they got there. Even T34
and other Soviet tanks seem to have been painted mostly with slogans. They
may have had the same experience with stars that the US tankers did. They
make for nice aiming points, and for US tankers, were rapidly painted out.



Also, we shipped many M4A4, which were the ones with slightly longer chassis,
to the British and French, which would also have been loaded eastward, too.



Bruce, you sure get to do some interesting loads!



Elden Gatwood



________________________________

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Dennis Storzek
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 12:28 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: M4 flat car loads - was CCB photo



--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Bruce Smith"
<smithbf@...> wrote:
The M4A2 was diesel powered and was therefore more popular with
the British and Russians. So, with production of the M4A2 beginning in
April of 1942 and ending in May 1944, it seems as if perhaps M4A2
shipments might need to be modeled... which means I need to buy some
from
Hieser!

Regards
Bruce
That brings up an interesting question, would the lend-lease tanks
have been stenciled with the national insignia of their intended
destination at the factory? Would the Russian tanks have red stars
while in transit?

The reason I ask is my Dad was stationed at the air field in Nome
Alaska during the war. Nome was the last fuel stop in the US for P-39
fighters being flown to the USSR. The aircraft were ferried as far as
Fairbanks by the women pilots who flew ferry moves for ACT and turned
over to the Russians there. The Russians made one more fueling stop,
at Nome, before crossing the Bearing Strait and disappearing into Siberia.

Dad had a copy of an official panoramic view of Nome Field (officially
Marks Field, but Dad said he never heard anyone call it that). The
photo was taken sometime in early 1944. Out of the three dozen or so
aircraft visible, at least thirty have red star insignia, discernable
even in the black & white photo.

I wonder if the same was done with armor?

Dennis

125221 - 125240 of 196850