Date   

Re: Naperville 2008...

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jun 11, 2008, at 2:03 PM, Jack Burgess wrote:

The dates for this year's Naperville meet have been posted several
times but
I haven't seem any information on the hotel. Since this will be the
first
year that I will have a chance to attend, can someone give me the
hotel
information or where it might be posted?





Holiday Inn, 1801 Naper Blvd., Naperville, IL Phone (630) 445-6314
weekdays and ask for the Sunshine Models rate. But note that the
rate hasn't been established yet, so it's probably too early to book
a room. Also, it's best to phone direct, as some of us have had
problems in the past getting the special rate by phoning the national
Holiday Inn reservation 800 number.

Richard Hendrickson


Naperville 2008...

Jack Burgess <jack@...>
 

The dates for this year's Naperville meet have been posted several times but
I haven't seem any information on the hotel. Since this will be the first
year that I will have a chance to attend, can someone give me the hotel
information or where it might be posted?

Thanks

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


Uncure ACC Debonder (Was:Taking Apart a Sunshine Model)

Mike Fortney
 

I have had several off-list requests as to where to find Uncure.
http://www.bsiadhesives.com/Pages/hobby/accel.html
There is a dealer locater link on their home pages.

Std disclaimer - blah, blah </dracula voice> , just a satisfied customer.

Mike Fortney
Bloomington, IL


Re: 2007 Meet

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Lee Bertholf asked:
"I missed the photos of the 2007 Meet I wondered if someone had a site
or pictures avaiable of the models that were there."

Which meet? There are several.


Ben Hom


2007 Meet

Lee Bertholf <lebert1942@...>
 

I missed the photos of the 2007 Meet I wondered if someone had a site
or pictures avaiable of the models that were there. Lee


Re: Triple Hoppers

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Cleaning out some old e-mails and found this one from April 2006 that
was never answered:

Armand Premo asked:
"Are there any good models of a quad hopper other than Bowser's or
Westerfield's (both Pennsy}?"

Depends on what you define as "good", as each of the following models
will need work:

Athearn/AHM (Roco)/Tyco/Bachmann (Cox) Offset Quad Hoppers:
The Athearn HO scale offset quad hopper, along with the Athearn 40 ft
prewar AAR boxcar are possibly the most copied models in the history
in the history of the model railroading hobby. This model has been
copied by various manufacturers in HO and N scale with varying degrees
of prototype fidelity, and offered in far more bogus than correct
paint schemes.

Prototype: All of these models more or less follow the B&O version
(Class W-2 and subclasses) of the 1926/1929 ARA offset quad hopper,
with the ladders favored by the B&O vice grabs preferred by most of
the other roads ordering these cars. Unfortunately, these models
fall below the current state of the art; a common problem of all of
the models is crude brake details, with the Athearn model having a
toy-like one-piece casting incorporating all three brake components
with a ton of extra plastic. Additionally, models of early cars need
to have the brake system backdated to K brakes and vertical staff
handbrakes.

See Railway Prototype Cyclopedia 5 and 14 for photos and roster
information.

Specific pros and cons of the HO scale models:

Athearn:
Pros: Readily available. Later runs have much improved lettering;
lettering on runs done for B&ORRHS are very nicely done.
Cons: Several glaring toy like details, most notably overly thick
operating doors that rarely stay closed and monolithic brake casting.
Lettering on earlier runs very badly done. Very light in weight.

AHM/Roco:
Pros: Later models have cast on non-operating doors which are much
better in appearance than the Athearn model. Readily available on the
secondary market, though you will need to shop around for the best
price.
Cons: Talgo trucks with the infamous AHM friction fit kingpin that
doesn't hold well in service. Early models have the operating doors.
Very light in weight.

Tyco:
Pros: Models have cast on non-operating doors which are much better in
appearance than the Athearn model. Readily available on the secondary
market, though you will need to shop around for the best price.
Cons: Model has incorrect fishbelly underframe. (This can be replaced
with strip styrene). Talgo trucks. Very light in weight.

Bachmann (ex-Cox):
Pros: Models have cast on non-operating doors which are much better in
appearance than the Athearn model. Current runs have body mounted
couplers and screw mounted trucks. Older models are readily available
on the secondary market; model is currently in production. Still
light compared with NMRA RP 20.1, but nowhere near as bad as the other
models.
Cons: Overall appearance of model is very crude, with the splice
plates on the sides modeled particularly badly. Model has incorrect
fishbelly underframe. (This can be replaced with strip styrene).
Earlier models have Talgo trucks. Cars lettered in B&O are badly done.

Given the choice, I prefer the later AHM models, with the Tyco model
coming in second. We'll cover building Class W-2 and subclass cars
from these models in a future issue of the B&O Modeler.

HObbyline/Lionel Quad: This is a model of a Lehigh Valley
prototype. Some details are rough (notably the molded on grabs, door
details, and brake details), but it captures the important details of
the prototype, inclucing the wheel clearance pockets in the hoppers.
Many of the prototype cars were later "kitbashed" into twins during
the late 1930s and 1940s. Tooling for the HObbyline model was later
used by Lionel for their HO scale models - go with the HObbyline
models as you can get them cheaper if you want to do this car.
Model photo from the pay side of the RPI website:
http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/displayimage.php?i=27165#

Roller Bearing Models PRR Class H25: Early resin kit; builds into a
credible model of a Class H25 quad but is a bit of a challenge to
assemble, particularly the hoppers, which are cast metal and
difficult to keep square.

Walthers Quad Hopper: Not a steam era design, but a 100-ton design
from the 1960s. See Jim Eager's article from the January 1993
Railmodel Journal for more information.
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-4911

As for coming models, Funaro & Camerlengo displayed test castings of
a new HO scale PRR Class H25 quad featuring a one-piece body
casting. This model will be coming out this summer.


Ben Hom


Re: Taking Apart a Sunshine Model

Tony Higgins
 

I built this model last year, and was also concerned by top heaviness
from the thick roof casting. I set my drill press up to a fixed depth
and drilled out most of the material with a 1/4" drill. I forgot to
weigh it before and after, but I estimate I reduced it's weight by
nearly half. When I get my layout running, I'll see how it does.

-Tony Higgins

--- In STMFC@..., "rwitt_2000" <rmwitt@...> wrote:

John Golden wrote:

" The problem is that this SAL round-roof box car has a huge, thick
roof
casting and the body did not assemble properly."
<snip>
It seems
that the model will be top heavy and not track well using the thick
roof
casting. I would be interested in learning from those that have
assembled these two kits if they had any problems actually
operating
these models.

Bob Witt


Re: B&O M-27 Tracking

Jim Williams <wwww5960@...>
 

Bob......Can't recall exact amounts but I used 1.5 to 2 oz of weight on the inside floor to bring up the car weight. ....It is not top heavy and I have had no problem running it in trains.......Jim Williams

Paul <buygone@...> wrote: Bob:

I have completed both Sunshine 58.1 and 58.6. I have no problem running
them, all of my car get equipped with re-box 88 wheels.

Paul C. Koehler

_____

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
rwitt_2000
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 7:27 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Taking Apart a Sunshine Model

John Golden wrote:

" The problem is that this SAL round-roof box car has a huge, thick roof
casting and the body did not assemble properly."

Martin did the B&O M-27 versions with the Tatum roof also with a very
thick casting for the roof. When I build mine I intend to scratch build
the roof per the article in Railroad Model Craftsman by Bob Chapman
using a Red Caboose ARA roof casting as the starting point. It seems
that the model will be top heavy and not track well using the thick roof
casting. I would be interested in learning from those that have
assembled these two kits if they had any problems actually operating
these models.

Bob Witt


Re: B&O M-27 Tracking

Paul <buygone@...>
 

Bob:



I have completed both Sunshine 58.1 and 58.6. I have no problem running
them, all of my car get equipped with re-box 88 wheels.



Paul C. Koehler



_____

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
rwitt_2000
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 7:27 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Taking Apart a Sunshine Model



John Golden wrote:

" The problem is that this SAL round-roof box car has a huge, thick roof
casting and the body did not assemble properly."

Martin did the B&O M-27 versions with the Tatum roof also with a very
thick casting for the roof. When I build mine I intend to scratch build
the roof per the article in Railroad Model Craftsman by Bob Chapman
using a Red Caboose ARA roof casting as the starting point. It seems
that the model will be top heavy and not track well using the thick roof
casting. I would be interested in learning from those that have
assembled these two kits if they had any problems actually operating
these models.

Bob Witt


Re: Taking Apart a Sunshine Model

rwitt_2000 <rmwitt@...>
 

John Golden wrote:

" The problem is that this SAL round-roof box car has a huge, thick roof
casting and the body did not assemble properly."

Martin did the B&O M-27 versions with the Tatum roof also with a very
thick casting for the roof. When I build mine I intend to scratch build
the roof per the article in Railroad Model Craftsman by Bob Chapman
using a Red Caboose ARA roof casting as the starting point. It seems
that the model will be top heavy and not track well using the thick roof
casting. I would be interested in learning from those that have
assembled these two kits if they had any problems actually operating
these models.

Bob Witt


Re: Micro Mark Deluxe Decal Finishing System

Tim O'Connor
 

The uScale softening solutions are quite mild. I use Champ solution
or Walthers Solvaset to soften stubborn decals.

I routinely use the Microscale liquid decal stuff (I forget the name) to
either hold old decals together, or to transform tiny lettering from dry
transfers into decals, after first transferring them to decal paper. Just
brush it on and let it dry.

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Spen Kellogg <spenkell@...>
Does anyone have any experience with Micro Marks decal setting and
restoring products. I am particularly interested in the decal film
restoring solution as I have some old decals that are no longer made.
I've tried to store them well, but I don't trust myself.

Thanks and regards, Spen Kellogg


Re: Micro Mark Deluxe Decal Finishing System

Marcelo Lordeiro <mrcustom@...>
 

I don't know about the Micro Mark stuff but the Microscale products I use are excellents.

Marcelo Lordeiro

----- Original Message -----
From: Spen Kellogg
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 10:17 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Micro Mark Deluxe Decal Finishing System


Does anyone have any experience with Micro Marks decal setting and
restoring products. I am particularly interested in the decal film
restoring solution as I have some old decals that are no longer made.
I've tried to store them well, but I don't trust myself.

Thanks and regards, Spen Kellogg





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Micro Mark Deluxe Decal Finishing System

Spen Kellogg <spenkell@...>
 

Does anyone have any experience with Micro Marks decal setting and restoring products. I am particularly interested in the decal film restoring solution as I have some old decals that are no longer made. I've tried to store them well, but I don't trust myself.

Thanks and regards, Spen Kellogg


Re: Taking Apart a Sunshine Model

golden1014
 

Mike, All,

Thanks for all the great ideas on how to de-construct a resin model.

The problem is that this SAL round-roof box car has a huge, thick
roof casting and the body did not assemble properly. I assembled it
once and did a poor job, and used debonder to disassemble it. I
assembled it again and this time used a lot of ACC, and it still
didn't fit right. This time I can't get it apart. I'll try the
debonder you mentioned, and if that doesn't work try some straight
acetone.

If nothing else works, I'll try the Leica method. Maybe an old Nikon
would work?

John Golden
Bloomington, IN


--- In STMFC@..., "itc_725" <emfour@...> wrote:

John, I've had good fortune using Uncure, a 30-120 second ACC
debonder
which was custom-labeled for the LHS. I kept the joint coated with
Uncure using a Q-tip, then gently started working the parts apart.
It
does take almost the entire two minutes to loosen but once the
joint
separation starts, it's a piece o' cake. Uncure turns the ACC into
a
gooey paste which cleans right off with NO damage to the resin
parts
and NO marring of the surfaces. Uncure is also handy to remove the
errant glob of ACC which can otherwise mar a model's surface.

Mike Fortney

--- In STMFC@..., John Golden <golden1014@> wrote:

Gentlemen,

I have a Sunshine box car kit (Seaboard DD auto car)
that did not go together well. I need to de-bond the
ACC I used to fix the roof to the sides. Does anyone
have any foolproof ideas on how to debond the ACC?
Yes, I've used ACC de-bonder, and I've tried freezing
it, but nothing's worked. Thanks!

John



John Golden
Bloomington, IN

Co-Hosting the 2008 St. Louis RPM Meet
15 & 16 August, 2008
Gateway Convention Center, Collinsville, IL

Check out photos from the 2006 St. Louis RPM Meet at
http://www.pbase.com/golden1014/2006_st_louis_rpm_meet&page=all


Re: Taking Apart a Sunshine Model

Tony Higgins
 

I have never taken a whole model apart but I have successfully de
bonded body joints I was unhappy with. I used acetone and a q-tip.
Just keep soaking the q-tip and wiping the joint. It takes time but
it'll eventually weaken the joint. Be careful and you can get it
apart without breaking.

Tony Higgins

--- In STMFC@..., "oandle" <oandle@...> wrote:

-I haven't tried this myself but I'm led to believe ACC weakens in
freezing temps so if you put the finished model in the freezer for
a
while it should be relatively easy to pry apart.
Bob Weston
-- In STMFC@..., John Golden <golden1014@> wrote:
Gentlemen,

. Does anyone
have any foolproof ideas on how to debond the ACC?
Yes, I've used ACC de-bonder, and I've tried freezing
it, but nothing's worked. Thanks!

John

John Golden
Bloomington, IN

Co-Hosting the 2008 St. Louis RPM Meet
15 & 16 August, 2008
Gateway Convention Center, Collinsville, IL

Check out photos from the 2006 St. Louis RPM Meet at
http://www.pbase.com/golden1014/2006_st_louis_rpm_meet&page=all


Re: Sunshine Kits

Allen Rueter
 

John,
if you don't get any bites by StL RPM, bring it and I'll buy it.

--
Allen Rueter
StLouis MO


Re: Taking Apart a Sunshine Model

Mike Fortney
 

John, I've had good fortune using Uncure, a 30-120 second ACC debonder
which was custom-labeled for the LHS. I kept the joint coated with
Uncure using a Q-tip, then gently started working the parts apart. It
does take almost the entire two minutes to loosen but once the joint
separation starts, it's a piece o' cake. Uncure turns the ACC into a
gooey paste which cleans right off with NO damage to the resin parts
and NO marring of the surfaces. Uncure is also handy to remove the
errant glob of ACC which can otherwise mar a model's surface.

Mike Fortney

--- In STMFC@..., John Golden <golden1014@...> wrote:

Gentlemen,

I have a Sunshine box car kit (Seaboard DD auto car)
that did not go together well. I need to de-bond the
ACC I used to fix the roof to the sides. Does anyone
have any foolproof ideas on how to debond the ACC?
Yes, I've used ACC de-bonder, and I've tried freezing
it, but nothing's worked. Thanks!

John



John Golden
Bloomington, IN

Co-Hosting the 2008 St. Louis RPM Meet
15 & 16 August, 2008
Gateway Convention Center, Collinsville, IL

Check out photos from the 2006 St. Louis RPM Meet at
http://www.pbase.com/golden1014/2006_st_louis_rpm_meet&page=all


Re: St. Louis RPM Meet - 15 & 16 Aug, 2008-----What about the Denver RPM????

Chuck Cover <cecover@...>
 

Group,

The St. Louis RPM meeting sounds great. Are there any updates on the Rocky Mountain RPM meeting later this month in Denver? I am seeing no new information on the Denver area meet. Any new speakers or vendors? Thanks

Chuck Cover
Santa Fe, NM


Re: Taking Apart a Sunshine Model

Bob Weston
 

-I haven't tried this myself but I'm led to believe ACC weakens in
freezing temps so if you put the finished model in the freezer for a
while it should be relatively easy to pry apart.
Bob Weston

-- In STMFC@..., John Golden <golden1014@...> wrote:
Gentlemen,

. Does anyone
have any foolproof ideas on how to debond the ACC?
Yes, I've used ACC de-bonder, and I've tried freezing
it, but nothing's worked. Thanks!

John

John Golden
Bloomington, IN

Co-Hosting the 2008 St. Louis RPM Meet
15 & 16 August, 2008
Gateway Convention Center, Collinsville, IL

Check out photos from the 2006 St. Louis RPM Meet at
http://www.pbase.com/golden1014/2006_st_louis_rpm_meet&page=all


Re: Color Matching for Freight Cars

randyhees <hees@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., water.kresse@... wrote:

C&O 1920s cabeeses were apparently painted Metallic or Princes
Brown, was this a gloss rating or a redness rating say over C&O
Freight Car Brown of that era?

Al Kresse
Prince's Metalic Paint was a high end mineral red paint... from a
1883 ad in Painting and Painters' Materials, published by the
Railroad Gazette...

"Prince's Metallic Paint Contains 72% of Per [sic]Oxide of Iron and
28% of Drier. It is better than Venetian Red, Red Lead, or an Iron
Oxide because it contains a natural drier, will not fade, scale or
chalk off, and will cover twice as much surface as White or Red
Lead. Sulphurous gasses and salt air do not affect it... We only
make one color "Brown""

Similarly, the SP (and UP) "box car red" color at the turn of the
century was called "Metallic" as a reference to the use of iron
oxide as a base. We did a match for a narrow gauge box restoration
(from fragments found on the car body) and the SP color was a very
brown BCR, similar to Hershey bar when fresh.

All linseed oil paints are glossy when fresh. They weather to a
flatter, greyer color over a couple of years (this might be a
modeling issue... linseed oil paints do weather differntly than the
later enamels.)

I suspect the biggest change in the color of SP Metallic came in the
1920's when they changed from linseed oil based paints to automotive
enamel style paint. We have one SP car which stayed in service until
1960, its paint is noticably redder than the turn of the century
color.

Randy Hees
www.spcrr.org


-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Mike Brock" <brockm@...>
Walter Clark writes:

"Mike, UP "Boxcar Red," which is actually named Metallic was (I
understand) more red and less brown than the SP paint of the same
name, at least by WWII. Back when Mr. Harriman combined UP, SP
etc.,
into the group that was later broken up after his death
the "Metallic"
was the same for SP and UP (and the others). Now, when did they UP
and SP start to drift apart on their definition of Metallic?"

I'll let SP gurus...Tony Thompson?...respond about SP. According
to the late
Terry Metcalfe in his UP frt cars 1936-51, Metallic was replaced
by
Synthetic Red in 1937 beginning with the B-50-22 and 23 classes.
Terry
believed that Synthetic Red was a little bit redder than Metallic.
Terry
suggested that Scalecoat Oxide Red was a good choice for either. I
think
Polyscale Oxide Red is a good choice. It certainly gets you in the
ball
park.

In 1941 you would see both paints in use. I doubt that you could
tell which
one was on a car due to reasons that, if we don't now know, we'll
never
know...

Mike Brock





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