Date   

Re: UP flat car

Richard Townsend
 

FWIW, there's a restored St.J.&G.I. caboose in someone's yard in Niwot, Colorado.


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 1:57 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] UP flat car







On Jun 20, 2008, at 10:36 AM, Garth G. Groff wrote:
Absolutely, a UP subsidiary! I'm not a UP maven, but I was told
that in
later years (like the 1950s) the only St.J&GI-marked car was a wooden
caboose. Do you have any idea when the St.J&GI revenue equipment
disappeared from the ORERs? For that matter, when did the UP reletter
the cars from their other subsidiaries?
In the mid-to-late 1940s, the UP's ORER entries listed two 34'
St.J&GI box cars. They were gone by 1950.

According to the late Terry Metcalfe's landmark UP freight car book,
the initials of subsidiaries OSL, OWR&N, and LA&SL were used as
reporting marks until March, 1958. On cars painted or repainted
after that date, the reporting marks became UP but the initials of
the subsidiary lines were stenciled in 4" characters at the upper
left corner of the sides.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: UP flat car

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

Richard, what exactly do you mean by "used as reporting marks until March, 1958"? My 1961 ORER lists several car series as O-WR&N and OSL. These weren't the 4-inch markings were they?

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Hendrickson

According to the late Terry Metcalfe's landmark UP freight car book,
the initials of subsidiaries OSL, OWR&N, and LA&SL were used as
reporting marks until March, 1958. On cars painted or repainted
after that date, the reporting marks became UP but the initials of
the subsidiary lines were stenciled in 4" characters at the upper
left corner of the sides.


Re: Auto box cars

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
"According to Larry Occhiello's invaluable "Santa Fe Railway Listing
of Freight Cars...", a bunch of Fe-28 50' AAR postwar double door
auto cars were renumbered 15209-25410 in 1956 when equipped with
racks for the shipment of Chrysler auto parts stampings. That
number change is actually shown in the text of my book as well, but
not in the roster (the roster, had it been able to include all of the
number changes made when service assignments were revised would have
required a separate book)."

Thanks, Richard. I spotted the renumbering in the text; however,
Armand's Rutland switchlists and car logs have largely been between
1947-1953, which is what's throwing me at the moment.

Armand, do you have the date of the switchlist that produced that "SF
15400"?


Ben Hom


Re: Auto box cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jun 20, 2008, at 8:49 AM, benjaminfrank_hom wrote:

[AT]SF 15400
Car number not found in July 1950 ORER. No 15xxx series listed in
Appendix I roster of Santa Fe Furniture and Automobile Cars,
1887-1969 in Hendrickson's _Furniture and Autombile Box Cars_.





According to Larry Occhiello's invaluable "Santa Fe Railway Listing
of Freight Cars...", a bunch of Fe-28 50' AAR postwar double door
auto cars were renumbered 15209-25410 in 1956 when equipped with
racks for the shipment of Chrysler auto parts stampings. That number
change is actually shown in the text of my book as well, but not in
the roster (the roster, had it been able to include all of the number
changes made when service assignments were revised would have
required a separate book). These cars had diagonal panel roofs, 4-4
early style Improved Dreadnaught ends, 15'6" double postwar
corrugated doors, Ajax brakes, ASF A-3 trucks, and Morton steel
running boards.


Richard Hendrickson


Re: UP flat car

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jun 20, 2008, at 10:36 AM, Garth G. Groff wrote:
Absolutely, a UP subsidiary! I'm not a UP maven, but I was told
that in
later years (like the 1950s) the only St.J&GI-marked car was a wooden
caboose. Do you have any idea when the St.J&GI revenue equipment
disappeared from the ORERs? For that matter, when did the UP reletter
the cars from their other subsidiaries?







In the mid-to-late 1940s, the UP's ORER entries listed two 34'
St.J&GI box cars. They were gone by 1950.

According to the late Terry Metcalfe's landmark UP freight car book,
the initials of subsidiaries OSL, OWR&N, and LA&SL were used as
reporting marks until March, 1958. On cars painted or repainted
after that date, the reporting marks became UP but the initials of
the subsidiary lines were stenciled in 4" characters at the upper
left corner of the sides.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: 40' Autobox cars

Gene Green <bierglaeser@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Garth G. Groff" <ggg9y@...> wrote:

Tim,

C&BT <snip>
Do the letters C, B and T actually stand for anything? Someone's
name? Location of company?
Gene Green


Re: 40' Autobox cars

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Tim,

C&BT made double door cars with 4/4 ends and rectangular roofs, and with R-3/4 ends and diagonal panel roofs. I have both types in my stash. I believe all had the same double 8' doors. I haven't found a prototype for the latter car, and plan to use the sides to build a C&NW double-door riveted PS-1. Someday. Maybe.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

timboconnor@... wrote:

I think C&BT produced single door cars

6, 7, 8 ft door openings
3 different ends -- 4/4 RP, R+3/4 RP, R+3/4 Taper
10 panel or 12 panel riveted
RP or DP roofs

for a total of 3 x 3 x 2 x 2 = 36 permutations

Many of them have no prototype.

For the double door cars I think there was only one
side pattern and a single choice of door width, so you
only have variations by roof and end choices.

Tim O'Connor


Re: 40' Autobox cars

Tim O'Connor
 

I think C&BT produced single door cars

6, 7, 8 ft door openings
3 different ends -- 4/4 RP, R+3/4 RP, R+3/4 Taper
10 panel or 12 panel riveted
RP or DP roofs

for a total of 3 x 3 x 2 x 2 = 36 permutations

Many of them have no prototype.

For the double door cars I think there was only one
side pattern and a single choice of door width, so you
only have variations by roof and end choices.

Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...>
Clark Propst asked:
"...do you know if there's a list of C&BT cars that have not been
duplicated and correct road info for those cars?"

The information has been posted on this list in dribs and drabs, but
nobody to my knowledge has compiled it into a list. It's certainly a
worthy projects, as it would help identify what's worth picking up or
what's worth keeping in the kit stash.

Ben Hom


Re: 40' Autobox cars

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Clark Propst asked:
"...do you know if there's a list of C&BT cars that have not been
duplicated and correct road info for those cars?"

The information has been posted on this list in dribs and drabs, but
nobody to my knowledge has compiled it into a list. It's certainly a
worthy projects, as it would help identify what's worth picking up or
what's worth keeping in the kit stash.


Ben Hom


Re: Auto Boxcar

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Bob Lyon (via Paul Catapano) wrote:
"That X30 is a must-do for the Elmira Branch, as the American
LaFrance plant was adjacent to Shannon Interlocking, where the branch
joined the Erie main as it came out of Southport. The car had its
own spur there where it was stored when not in use. Would be a neat
kitbash. If only there were more than the one photo I've seen of it
available."

The Class X30 is currently available in HO scale brass from Crown
Custom Imports in the paint schemes that it wore during its long
service life. (The car ended its days in Penn Central green!) I
don't have a copy handy, but their ad in RMC should have pricing and
availability details. See Bruce Smith's review in the August 2006
issue of The Keystone Modeler.

If you want to kitbash this car, it's essentially a Class X28 boxcar
on steroids. You'll need at least two Red Caboose X29 kits, an end
door, Youngstown double doors, and some shim material (or two more
car bodies) to raise the height of the car to 10 ft IH. A kitbash of
this car won best HO scale freight car at the PRRT&HS Annual Meeting
a few years ago. (I'll post the name of the modeler once I get a
chance to look it up).

As for photos, the builders photos are commonly seen. The 3/4 A end
photo is posted on Rob Schoenberg's website here:
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html?
photo=BuildersPhotos/X30_59861_A34_BillLane.jpg&fr=clX30

...and the broadside photo is available from several vendors
including Richard Burg and has been published in Wayner's _Cars of
the Pennsylvania Railroad_. In service photos are a bit harder to
find; the Crown Custom Imports model was originally a Rail Classics
project, and Eddy had several in-service photos posted on the
website, which unfortunately went away after they closed down.


Ben Hom


Re: Auto Boxcar

Bruce Smith
 

On Jun 20, 2008, at 12:24 PM, Paul Catapano wrote:

My friend Bob Lyon wrote to me about this thread:

That X30 is a must-do for the Elmira Branch, as the
American LaFrance plant was adjacent to Shannon
Interlocking, where the branch joined the Erie main as it came
out of Southport. The car had its own spur there where it was stored
when not in use. Would be a neat kitbash. If only there
were more than the one photo I've seen of it
available.
No need for a kitbash in HO. Crown Custom Imports imported the X30 in HO scale a few years back - see my review in TKM #37, August 2006 ;^) AFAIK, they still have cars, as there were some on their table at the PRRT&HS meeting about a month ago.

In addition, Rail Classics had several differernt photos on their web site before they went belly up, so there is more than one photo of the car, but not many more.

For folks who aren't modeler's of the PRR's Elmira branch, this car could still make an appearance, but it would definitely be an "oddball" At 74' LOA, it REALLY stands out in a fleet of 40' boxcars!

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Re: UP flat car

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Richard,

Absolutely, a UP subsidiary! I'm not a UP maven, but I was told that in later years (like the 1950s) the only St.J&GI-marked car was a wooden caboose. Do you have any idea when the St.J&GI revenue equipment disappeared from the ORERs? For that matter, when did the UP reletter the cars from their other subsidiaries?

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Richard Hendrickson wrote:

On Jun 20, 2008, at 7:47 AM, Garth G. Groff wrote:

A very cool photo. Thanks for sharing it with us. Did you notice that
the car with the two men sitting on it is from the St. Joseph & Grand
Island? That has to be even rarer than the UP car.






Garth, the SJ&GI was a wholly-owned UP subsidiary and its equipment was listed under the UP in the ORERs (as was the equipment of the O- WR&N, OSL, and LA&SL).

Richard Hendrickson


Books for Sale

golden1014
 

Gentlemen,
 
I have a few books I'd like to sell so I can buy other books I'm interested in.  If you're interested, please contact me off-list at Golden1014@....
 
1. West Virginia Logging Railroads by Warden. Like New.  A book plate has been installed in the front cover.  Reference: http://www.amazon.com/Virginia-Logging-Railroads-William-Warden/dp/1883089034
 
2. Southern Rwy in Color, Vol. 1, by Morning Sun.  A little damage to the spine of the dust cover I can send you a photo if you'd like).  I can't find this one on the internet anywhere so it must be way out of print.  A book plate has been installed inside the front cover. 
 
3. C&O In Color, Vol. 1 by Stegmaier.  Excellent, like new condition.  A book plate has been installed inside the front cover.
 
Thanks!
John

John Golden
Bloomington, IN

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: 40' Autobox cars

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

however, for some paint schemes and prototypes (most
notably 12 panel welded postwar boxcars, the auto boxcars that we've
been discussing, and some rebuilt SFRD steel reefers), they're still
the only game in town.
Ben Hom
Ben, do you know if there's a list of C&BT cars that have not been
duplicated and correct road info for those cars?
Thanks,
Clark Propst


Auto Boxcar

Paul Catapano
 

My friend Bob Lyon wrote to me about this thread:

That X30 is a must-do for the Elmira Branch, as the
American LaFrance plant was adjacent to Shannon
Interlocking, where the branch joined the Erie main as it came
out of Southport. The car had its own spur there where it was stored
when not in use. Would be a neat kitbash. If only there
were more than the one photo I've seen of it
available.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++






Paul Catapano
Littlerock Subdivision
Atlantic Inland Railway Co.

"All it takes to start an insane asylum
is a big room and the right kind of people"


HO scale for sale

Rob Sarberenyi <espeef5@...>
 

I have several items listed on eBay that may be of interest
http://stores.ebay.com/Espee-F-5

More stuff coming next week....

Thanks for looking!


Rob Sarberenyi
espeef5@...


Re: 40' Autobox cars

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

David North wrote:
"Santa Fe FE-26 class, 40" [sic] double door cars were equipped with
Evans loaders during the 40s and they were removed during the 50s, as
the cars were transferred to auto parts shipping, etc.

A model of these was available from C&BT Part #HO-0401 to HO-0405.
I've found them in hobby shops and they appear on ebay from time to
time.

<<snip>>

The ATSF cars are pretty accurate IMHO."

It depends on what you mean as "pretty accurate". If you use the
parts given to you in the box, you will not get an accurate model.
The greatest tragedy about the C&BT line is while the concept of the
kits is very sound (providing a base carbody with separate detail
parts, e.g., ladders, grabs, brake details), the execution is
dreadfully flawed to the point that the first step in assembling a
C&BT kit is to immediately throw away the detail parts, running
board, and wheelsets, and replace them with aftermarket parts. To
make things worse, instead of correcting these deficiencies, the
manufacturer chose instead to retool the carbodies to included molded
on ladders and grabs, essentially taking a step backwards.

As for getting an accurate Fe-26, you will also need to rework the
sidesill of the kit. The Fe-26 had a distinctive full-length
fishbelly sidesill with lots of rivets. See Hendrickson's _Furniture
and Automobile Box Cars_ for more details - it's the car featured on
the cover photo.

BTW, this book is still in print and available from the SFRH&MS:
http://www.atsfrr.net/store/bookFrt.htm

Fortunately for the HO scale modeler, the C&BT line has mostly been
superceded by Branchline (postwar boxcars) and Intermountain (SFRD
reefers); however, for some paint schemes and prototypes (most
notably 12 panel welded postwar boxcars, the auto boxcars that we've
been discussing, and some rebuilt SFRD steel reefers), they're still
the only game in town. These kits can be built into nice models, but
the modeler needs to be aware that they require some TLC to get there.


Ben Hom


Re: 40' Autobox cars

Jim & Lisa Hayes <jimandlisa97225@...>
 

Sunshine made and Fe-26 but unfortunately it was discontinued. Wish I'd
gotten one when they were available. The riveted fishbelly side sill made it
stand out.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon



_____

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
David North
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 4:04 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: 40' Autobox cars



Santa Fe FE-26 class, 40" double door cars were equipped with Evans loaders
during the 40s and they were removed during the 50s, as the cars were
transferred to auto parts shipping, etc.

A model of these was available from C&BT Part # HO-0401.to HO-0405. I've
found them in hobby shops and they appear on ebay from time to time.



No virus found in this incoming message.
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8:00 AM


Re: UP flat car

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jun 20, 2008, at 7:47 AM, Garth G. Groff wrote:

A very cool photo. Thanks for sharing it with us. Did you notice that
the car with the two men sitting on it is from the St. Joseph & Grand
Island? That has to be even rarer than the UP car.





Garth, the SJ&GI was a wholly-owned UP subsidiary and its equipment
was listed under the UP in the ORERs (as was the equipment of the O-
WR&N, OSL, and LA&SL).

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Auto box cars

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Armand Premo wrote:
"So Ben from wheel reports, how about these for starters?

TNO 58000
Class A-50-7 50 ft SS automobile boxcar built 1924, Murphy radial
roof. Starting point would be the Funaro & Camerlengo 6560 series
Class A-50-5/6 kits. You will need to replace the kit roof with a
radial roof. See Thompson's _SP Freight Cars_ Vol 3, Chapter 4 for
more details.

[AT]SF 15400
Car number not found in July 1950 ORER. No 15xxx series listed in
Appendix I roster of Santa Fe Furniture and Automobile Cars,
1887-1969 in Hendrickson's _Furniture and Autombile Box Cars_.

NKP 24700
Automobile boxcars rebuilt from earlier DS boxcars; 10 ft 6 in IH,
1/5/5/6 indented Murphy ends. Sunshine 64.4:
http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sun64b.pdf


Ben Hom

121981 - 122000 of 195471