Date   

Re: UP flat car

Schuyler Larrabee
 

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of timboconnor@...
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 10:01 AM
To: stmfc@...
Subject: [STMFC] UP flat car

From the C.R. Savage collection at byu

http://contentdm.byu.edu/cgi-bin/getimage.exe?CISOROOT=/Savage&CISOPTR=1182&DMSCALE=100&DMWIDTH=3600
&DMHEIGHT=2600&DMX=0&DMY=0&DMTEXT=&REC=20&DMTHUMB=1&DMROTATE=0

<http://contentdm.byu.edu/cgi-bin/getimage.exe?CISOROOT=/Savage&CISOPTR=1182&DMSCALE=100&DMWIDTH=360
0&DMHEIGHT=2600&DMX=0&DMY=0&DMTEXT=&REC=20&DMTHUMB=1&DMROTATE=0>

Tim O'
That's a very interesting shot. Not necessarily for the flat car, but for a lot of other stuff. My
eye was first caught by the bridge at extreme left. A wood Bollman truss (don't shoot me if that's
misidentified) with a reinforcing arch? That's unusual, especially since the "arch" has a rather
unusual "wiggle" in it. Secondly, that is one hell of a depot in the background, easily the largest
building for miles, has to be. Second largest is that freight house. I disagree with the flood
cleanup idea, this all looks like "recently constructed" to me. That roundhouse is brand new, isn't
it? Stock cars above the steel truss bridge. Locomotive caught "at speed" in the background ("at
speed" for the speed of the film, anyway).

And then there's the mountains . . .

Good stuff, thanks for the link.

SGL


Re: 40' Autobox cars

rwitt_2000
 

Al Brown wrote:



But they sold separate doors, so you could mix & match. Starting with
their model and using their parts, some time back I modelled a B&O
car that had a 14' opening but not four 7' doors -- an 8' main door
and a 6' auxiliary per side. The car could use more details but I
still have it -- one of these years I'll upgrade the thing & bring it
back to Cocoa Beach.
There was a version of the kit decorated for the B&O class M-59 with the
correct width doors [8' and 6'] included in the kit. I maybe guessing,
but I believe Chris Barkan had some input into creating that kit. As
noted for some of the other railroads, the side sills have to be changed
to match those used on the B&O boxcar; and we all know to replace all
the details parts. Of course the Sunshine kit for the M-59 was better,
but I recall did not model the Duryea underframe.

Bob Witt


Re: UP flat car

rwitt_2000
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

From the C.R. Savage collection at byu

http://contentdm.byu.edu/cgi-bin/getimage.exe?CISOROOT=/Savage&CISOPTR=1\;
182&DMSCALE=100&DMWIDTH=3600&DMHEIGHT=2600&DMX=0&DMY=0&DMTEXT=&REC=20&DM&#92;
THUMB=1&DMROTATE=0

This is a freight list and there have been interesting observations
about the flatcars.

FWIW, to me it looks like the flats were carrying ballast as part of a
flood recovery efforts on the UP at Ogden. The track to the bridge and
that in the foreground look newly installed.

Tim, do you know the date of the photo?

Bob Witt


Re: 40' Autobox cars

al_brown03
 

--- In STMFC@..., timboconnor@... wrote:

I think C&BT produced single door cars

6, 7, 8 ft door openings
3 different ends -- 4/4 RP, R+3/4 RP, R+3/4 Taper
10 panel or 12 panel riveted
RP or DP roofs

for a total of 3 x 3 x 2 x 2 = 36 permutations

Many of them have no prototype.

For the double door cars I think there was only one
side pattern and a single choice of door width, so you
only have variations by roof and end choices.

Tim O'Connor
But they sold separate doors, so you could mix & match. Starting with
their model and using their parts, some time back I modelled a B&O
car that had a 14' opening but not four 7' doors -- an 8' main door
and a 6' auxiliary per side. The car could use more details but I
still have it -- one of these years I'll upgrade the thing & bring it
back to Cocoa Beach.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


Re: Auto box cars

armprem
 

Ben,Somewhere........I'll start an archeological dig.This may take some
time.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 5:22 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Auto box cars


Richard Hendrickson wrote:
"According to Larry Occhiello's invaluable "Santa Fe Railway Listing
of Freight Cars...", a bunch of Fe-28 50' AAR postwar double door
auto cars were renumbered 15209-25410 in 1956 when equipped with
racks for the shipment of Chrysler auto parts stampings. That
number change is actually shown in the text of my book as well, but
not in the roster (the roster, had it been able to include all of the
number changes made when service assignments were revised would have
required a separate book)."

Thanks, Richard. I spotted the renumbering in the text; however,
Armand's Rutland switchlists and car logs have largely been between
1947-1953, which is what's throwing me at the moment.

Armand, do you have the date of the switchlist that produced that "SF
15400"?


Ben Hom


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Re: C&BT box cars (was 40' Autobox)

Andy Miller <aslmmiller@...>
 

Columbia & Broad Top

----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 6:18 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: C&BT box cars (was 40' Autobox)



>Do the letters C, B and T actually stand for anything?
>Someone's name? Location of company?
>Gene Green

Gene, I don't know. Here's the complete list
as far as I know. I have only one of the 4xxx
series cars as those were the last new cars Dick
produced; and it coincided with his decision to
quit making separate ladders and grabs.

So have at it guys -- fill in the PROTOTYPE blanks.

Tim O'Connor

================================================
# len door panel end roof prototypes
================================================

100 40 6 10 4/4r RP -
200 40 7 10 4/4r RP -
300 40 8 10 4/4r RP -
400 40 14 8 4/4r RP -
500 40 6 12 4/4r RP -
600 40 7 12 4/4r RP -
700 40 8 12 4/4r RP -

900 40 6 10 R+3/4r RP -
1000 40 7 10 R+3/4r RP -
1100 40 8 10 R+3/4r RP -
1200 40 14 8 R+3/4r RP -
1300 40 6 12 R+3/4r RP -
1400 40 7 12 R+3/4r RP -
1500 40 8 12 R+3/4r RP -

3100 40 6 10 R+3/4r DP -
3200 40 7 10 R+3/4r DP -
3300 40 8 10 R+3/4r DP -
3400 40 14 8 R+3/4r DP -
3500 40 6 12 R+3/4r DP -
3600 40 7 12 R+3/4r DP -
3700 40 8 12 R+3/4r DP -

4100 40 6 10 R+3/4t DP -
4200 40 7 10 R+3/4t DP -
4300 40 8 10 R+3/4t DP -
4400 40 14 8 R+3/4t DP -
4500 40 6 12 R+3/4t DP -
4600 40 7 12 R+3/4t DP -
4700 40 8 12 R+3/4t DP -


From the C.R. Savage collection at byu

Paul Catapano
 

Anyone have trouble reading the road number on the locomotive?

Paul Catapano
Littlerock Subdivision
Atlantic Inland Railway Co.

"All it takes to start an insane asylum
is a big room and the right kind of people"


Re: 40' Autobox cars

cj riley <cjriley42@...>
 

As I remember, owner Dick Schweiger named it for his model railroad, but I don't recall the full name as I left Pittsburgh 14 years ago.

CJ Riley

--- On Fri, 6/20/08, Gene Green <bierglaeser@...> wrote:

From: Gene Green <bierglaeser@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: 40' Autobox cars
To: STMFC@...
Date: Friday, June 20, 2008, 12:56 PM
--- In STMFC@..., "Garth G. Groff"
<ggg9y@...> wrote:

Tim,

C&BT <snip>
Do the letters C, B and T actually stand for anything?
Someone's
name? Location of company?
Gene Green


Re: UP flat car

Tim O'Connor
 

Some late "Be Specific" box cars (1956-1957) received UP
reporting marks, while their ownership by OSL or OWR&N was
indicated by a stencil in the upper left hand corner on the
car side. Most (if not all) of the cars so lettered were
never repainted or relettered. I have a 1994 shot of a
company service box with the OSL stencil in the corner.

Tim O'Connor

The changeover was begun in March, 1958, but of course there were
many cars in service at that time with OWR&N, OSL, and LA&SL
reporting marks, and those cars lasted (in diminishing numbers) for
many years after that until they were repainted and re-stenciled.
I'm not aware that the UP ever had a program to paint out the
subsidiary lines' reporting marks and replace them with UP and the 4"
stenciling on cars that did not require repainting.
Richard Hendrickson


Re: Auto box cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jun 20, 2008, at 2:22 PM, benjaminfrank_hom wrote:

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
"According to Larry Occhiello's invaluable "Santa Fe Railway Listing
of Freight Cars...", a bunch of Fe-28 50' AAR postwar double door
auto cars were renumbered 15209-25410 in 1956 when equipped with
racks for the shipment of Chrysler auto parts stampings. That
number change is actually shown in the text of my book as well, but
not in the roster (the roster, had it been able to include all of the
number changes made when service assignments were revised would have
required a separate book)."

Thanks, Richard. I spotted the renumbering in the text; however,
Armand's Rutland switchlists and car logs have largely been between
1947-1953, which is what's throwing me at the moment.














Good point, Ben. For that number to have turned up in a switch list,
the switch list would have had to date from no earlier than mid-1953,
as the number series is not in the 1/53 ORER (but is in the 1/55
ORER). Larry's 1956 date is based on the Santa Fe's own live lists,
which were only reissued every couple of years.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: UP flat car

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jun 20, 2008, at 2:30 PM, Kurt Laughlin wrote:

Richard, what exactly do you mean by "used as reporting marks until
March,
1958"? My 1961 ORER lists several car series as O-WR&N and OSL. These
weren't the 4-inch markings were they?




The changeover was begun in March, 1958, but of course there were
many cars in service at that time with OWR&N, OSL, and LA&SL
reporting marks, and those cars lasted (in diminishing numbers) for
many years after that until they were repainted and re-stenciled.
I'm not aware that the UP ever had a program to paint out the
subsidiary lines' reporting marks and replace them with UP and the 4"
stenciling on cars that did not require repainting.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: C&BT box cars (was 40' Autobox)

Tim O'Connor
 

Do the letters C, B and T actually stand for anything?
Someone's name? Location of company?
Gene Green
Gene, I don't know. Here's the complete list
as far as I know. I have only one of the 4xxx
series cars as those were the last new cars Dick
produced; and it coincided with his decision to
quit making separate ladders and grabs.

So have at it guys -- fill in the PROTOTYPE blanks.

Tim O'Connor

================================================
# len door panel end roof prototypes
================================================

100 40 6 10 4/4r RP -
200 40 7 10 4/4r RP -
300 40 8 10 4/4r RP -
400 40 14 8 4/4r RP -
500 40 6 12 4/4r RP -
600 40 7 12 4/4r RP -
700 40 8 12 4/4r RP -

900 40 6 10 R+3/4r RP -
1000 40 7 10 R+3/4r RP -
1100 40 8 10 R+3/4r RP -
1200 40 14 8 R+3/4r RP -
1300 40 6 12 R+3/4r RP -
1400 40 7 12 R+3/4r RP -
1500 40 8 12 R+3/4r RP -

3100 40 6 10 R+3/4r DP -
3200 40 7 10 R+3/4r DP -
3300 40 8 10 R+3/4r DP -
3400 40 14 8 R+3/4r DP -
3500 40 6 12 R+3/4r DP -
3600 40 7 12 R+3/4r DP -
3700 40 8 12 R+3/4r DP -

4100 40 6 10 R+3/4t DP -
4200 40 7 10 R+3/4t DP -
4300 40 8 10 R+3/4t DP -
4400 40 14 8 R+3/4t DP -
4500 40 6 12 R+3/4t DP -
4600 40 7 12 R+3/4t DP -
4700 40 8 12 R+3/4t DP -


Re: UP flat car

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Kurt, The important point of Richard's post was "On cars painted or
repainted after that date, the reporting marks became UP." Odds are the cars
hadn't found there way to a paint shop yet. This was a common occurrence
consolidation of lines and mergers. It took many years for the NKP to
repaint all the WLE rolling stock, and since my ORER's don't go beyond 1959,
I am not even certain they were complete by the N&W merger. There was always
freight to haul, so if the paint was in good shape the car didn't get
painted. Also, for boxcars it may have been a few years before a car that
was sent off-line returned.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: UP flat car

Richard Townsend
 

FWIW, there's a restored St.J.&G.I. caboose in someone's yard in Niwot, Colorado.


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 1:57 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] UP flat car







On Jun 20, 2008, at 10:36 AM, Garth G. Groff wrote:
Absolutely, a UP subsidiary! I'm not a UP maven, but I was told
that in
later years (like the 1950s) the only St.J&GI-marked car was a wooden
caboose. Do you have any idea when the St.J&GI revenue equipment
disappeared from the ORERs? For that matter, when did the UP reletter
the cars from their other subsidiaries?
In the mid-to-late 1940s, the UP's ORER entries listed two 34'
St.J&GI box cars. They were gone by 1950.

According to the late Terry Metcalfe's landmark UP freight car book,
the initials of subsidiaries OSL, OWR&N, and LA&SL were used as
reporting marks until March, 1958. On cars painted or repainted
after that date, the reporting marks became UP but the initials of
the subsidiary lines were stenciled in 4" characters at the upper
left corner of the sides.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: UP flat car

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

Richard, what exactly do you mean by "used as reporting marks until March, 1958"? My 1961 ORER lists several car series as O-WR&N and OSL. These weren't the 4-inch markings were they?

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Hendrickson

According to the late Terry Metcalfe's landmark UP freight car book,
the initials of subsidiaries OSL, OWR&N, and LA&SL were used as
reporting marks until March, 1958. On cars painted or repainted
after that date, the reporting marks became UP but the initials of
the subsidiary lines were stenciled in 4" characters at the upper
left corner of the sides.


Re: Auto box cars

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
"According to Larry Occhiello's invaluable "Santa Fe Railway Listing
of Freight Cars...", a bunch of Fe-28 50' AAR postwar double door
auto cars were renumbered 15209-25410 in 1956 when equipped with
racks for the shipment of Chrysler auto parts stampings. That
number change is actually shown in the text of my book as well, but
not in the roster (the roster, had it been able to include all of the
number changes made when service assignments were revised would have
required a separate book)."

Thanks, Richard. I spotted the renumbering in the text; however,
Armand's Rutland switchlists and car logs have largely been between
1947-1953, which is what's throwing me at the moment.

Armand, do you have the date of the switchlist that produced that "SF
15400"?


Ben Hom


Re: Auto box cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jun 20, 2008, at 8:49 AM, benjaminfrank_hom wrote:

[AT]SF 15400
Car number not found in July 1950 ORER. No 15xxx series listed in
Appendix I roster of Santa Fe Furniture and Automobile Cars,
1887-1969 in Hendrickson's _Furniture and Autombile Box Cars_.





According to Larry Occhiello's invaluable "Santa Fe Railway Listing
of Freight Cars...", a bunch of Fe-28 50' AAR postwar double door
auto cars were renumbered 15209-25410 in 1956 when equipped with
racks for the shipment of Chrysler auto parts stampings. That number
change is actually shown in the text of my book as well, but not in
the roster (the roster, had it been able to include all of the number
changes made when service assignments were revised would have
required a separate book). These cars had diagonal panel roofs, 4-4
early style Improved Dreadnaught ends, 15'6" double postwar
corrugated doors, Ajax brakes, ASF A-3 trucks, and Morton steel
running boards.


Richard Hendrickson


Re: UP flat car

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jun 20, 2008, at 10:36 AM, Garth G. Groff wrote:
Absolutely, a UP subsidiary! I'm not a UP maven, but I was told
that in
later years (like the 1950s) the only St.J&GI-marked car was a wooden
caboose. Do you have any idea when the St.J&GI revenue equipment
disappeared from the ORERs? For that matter, when did the UP reletter
the cars from their other subsidiaries?







In the mid-to-late 1940s, the UP's ORER entries listed two 34'
St.J&GI box cars. They were gone by 1950.

According to the late Terry Metcalfe's landmark UP freight car book,
the initials of subsidiaries OSL, OWR&N, and LA&SL were used as
reporting marks until March, 1958. On cars painted or repainted
after that date, the reporting marks became UP but the initials of
the subsidiary lines were stenciled in 4" characters at the upper
left corner of the sides.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: 40' Autobox cars

Gene Green <bierglaeser@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Garth G. Groff" <ggg9y@...> wrote:

Tim,

C&BT <snip>
Do the letters C, B and T actually stand for anything? Someone's
name? Location of company?
Gene Green


Re: 40' Autobox cars

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Tim,

C&BT made double door cars with 4/4 ends and rectangular roofs, and with R-3/4 ends and diagonal panel roofs. I have both types in my stash. I believe all had the same double 8' doors. I haven't found a prototype for the latter car, and plan to use the sides to build a C&NW double-door riveted PS-1. Someday. Maybe.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

timboconnor@... wrote:

I think C&BT produced single door cars

6, 7, 8 ft door openings
3 different ends -- 4/4 RP, R+3/4 RP, R+3/4 Taper
10 panel or 12 panel riveted
RP or DP roofs

for a total of 3 x 3 x 2 x 2 = 36 permutations

Many of them have no prototype.

For the double door cars I think there was only one
side pattern and a single choice of door width, so you
only have variations by roof and end choices.

Tim O'Connor

122061 - 122080 of 195564