Date   
Re: Floquil thinner (way-back machine...)

Donald B. Valentine
 

--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
wrote:

On Jun 23, 2008, at 5:10 PM, Gene Green wrote:


"I seldom use Floquil (never on a car that has to be lettered with
decals), said Richard Hendrickson in message #73750.

Why, Richard?. Is that because of Floquil's flat finish?
Floquil's finish isn't just flat, it's grainy, and if you mix
enough
glaze into it to make it shiny enough to take decals, you end up
with
thick glop that obscures details - and then you have to apply flat
finish to hide the decals. Scalecoat works much better, IMHO.

Thank you, Richard, for that acknowledgement, which is exactly why
I gave up on Floquil for anything but weathering in 1968, also in
favor of Scalecoat. Even before Scalecoat II I never had any problems
with Scalecoat on plastic either. And it was a great improvement over
what was refered to in New England as Floquil's "paper towel finish".
For and even better paint on plastic, however, one cannot beat
Accu-paint, the difficulties with supply not withstanding. Even Gordon
Cannon used Accu-paint Erie-Lackawanna Gray to coat any parts being
photographed for advertising or catalog purposes.

Don Valentine

Richard Hendrickson

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Floquil thinner (way-back machine...)

ron christensen
 

The Floquil formula I use came from a man that retired from Sherwin Williams.
It is this:
Open a NEW bottle of Floquil put in 2 BBs and fill the bottle to the top with Xylol. Xylol is
Xileno sold by Sherwin Williams. Shake well.
I use the cheapest lacquer thinner I can find to clean the air brush. I find that even after
using a water base paint the air brush can use a lacquer thinner cleaning now and then.
Ron Christensen

Re: Floquil thinner (way-back machine...)

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

This certainly seems to be the case with any Scalecoat paint I've
used. I've read this warning somewhere as well--AFTER I trashed some
bottles of Scalecoat.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., Jim Williams <wwww5960@...> wrote:

Jon......Yes, Yes ...It was in the late 70's when Chuck Francis (Late
of Thin film ) and I had a conversation about what was happening and
both of us came to the same conclusion: if you didn't add any thinner
to a paint bottle it was OK and would last, once you did add thinner it
was toast (or in this case jello)..........best Jim Williams

Re: Floquil thinner (way-back machine...)

Ray Meyer
 

I've watched this thread with great interest, and now thought it was time to
share some sentiments.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the way to tell old Floquil from new
is by the label - old is all red print and new is black and red.

I have done wonderful painting with this product and I do a lot of
decalling [boxcar sides done with nothing but letter jungles, for example].
The trick is not to do everything at once. Spray on your color and after it
has dried, then a coat of Glosscoat where the decals will go. I never get a
visible buildup that way.

I appreciate people looking to save money on thinners, but after spending a
hundred hours or more on a model, is it worth the risk to use a generic to
save 5 cents on thinnner? A can of Dio-Sol and another of Airbrush Thinner
lasts me years. I guess no matter what paint I use (and I've tried them
all), manufacturer's solvent is my choice.

[And anyone who thinks MEK is safe to breath has been sniffing it too
long...]





--
Atty Raymond G. Meyer
110 E. Main St
Port Washington, WI 53074
262-284-5566
rgmeyer2@...

Re: rectangular panel Murphy roofs

ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
wrote:
to your question is that they were by far the most common roofs used
on box, auto, and refrigerator cars from the early 1930s through the
late 1940s.
Thanks for your reply Richard.

Since most model roofs don't have these rivets on seam caps are the
models inaccurate or were the rivets so small that their absence is
justified?

I've notice a couple of instances were rivets or bolts are very
oversized on otherwise pretty good models - the doors on the classic
Athearn 40 ft. box car and the hinges on many HO scale wood side
reefers.

Ed

Re: rectangular panel Murphy roofs

rwitt_2000
 

Ed Mines wrote:

I've notice a couple of instances were rivets or bolts are very
oversized on otherwise pretty good models - the doors on the classic
Athearn 40 ft. box car and the hinges on many HO scale wood side
reefers.
Ed, if you think the hinges are large on the Athearn reefer now you
should see an older model where the hinges actually worked and the doors
could open and close [:)] ;-).

Bob Witt

Re: 1937 AAR Boxcars - SP - trucks and roofs

Brian Leppert <b.leppert@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "wmcclark1980" <walterclark@...> wrote:

Group,

I'm starting a few Red Caboose 1937 AAR boxcars, for SP and T&NO. I
searched the archives and found that InterMountain makes ASF
self-aligning spring-plankless 50ton AAR trucks, which work for part
of the group of boxcars from B-50-18 and B-50-21. I couldn't find
anything in the archives for the other trucks I need. I'm looking
for
something to use for the following two trucks:

ASF Barber-stabilized AAR solid bearing spring-plank AAR,
No one makes a Barber Stabilized S-2 truck with spring-plank detail
in HO, so what you might use instead depends on what prototype
features seem the most important.
Branchline's Barber S-2 truck has the distinctive cat ear contours
inside the bolster ends, but the side frame shape isn't quite right
and it has no spring plank.
Proto 2000's Bettendorf truck has about the right look, but has
neither spring plank nor stabilizer bolster details.
Accurail's Bettendorf truck has the spring-plank detail.

Bettendorf solid bearing spring-plankless AAR.
Bettendorf's and ASF's (American Steel Foundries) sideframes are
virtually the same for the self-aligning, spring-plankless double-
truss AAR trucks you need.
However, although InterMountain's ASF truck is great for some Santa
Fe cars, it does not represent a self-aligning, spring-plankless
double-truss truck, in my opinion.
Tichy's Bettendorf truck would have greatly represented this truck,
if it wasn't so undersize.
For now, Proto 2000's Bettendorf truck is probably your best
choice, even though it lacks the double-truss contours on the lower
side frame members and the springs are a little too small (IMO).
Or, you could wait until later this year, when I hope to have this
truck available. I will be starting tooling as soon as I get my
newest truck on the market.

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV

Re: rectangular panel Murphy roofs

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@..., "ed_mines" <ed_mines@...> wrote:

Thanks for your reply Richard.

Since most model roofs don't have these rivets on seam caps are the
models inaccurate or were the rivets so small that their absence is
justified?

I've notice a couple of instances were rivets or bolts are very
oversized on otherwise pretty good models - the doors on the classic
Athearn 40 ft. box car and the hinges on many HO scale wood side
reefers.

Ed
That pretty much explains it, Ed. It's a judgment call on the part of
the manufacturers as to whether the rivets would best be modeled by
oversize shapes inaccurately placed, or simply left to the viewer's
imagination. Since the rivets rarely show in photos of the prototype,
it is easy to justify the later course.

AAR drawings of the "standard" roofs for 40' and 50' boxcars specify
the 3/8" rivets. That's the shank diameter; the heads are just a bit
over 5/8", and stand just over 1/4" tall. That's .008" in diameter and
.003" tall. They are properly located half way up the sides of the
caps, as their purpose is to pinch the U shaped cap tightly to the
upstanding flanges on the edges of the roof sheets. This is simply an
impossible location to add rivet detail to an injection molded roof,
as each and every rivet head would form an undercut in the mold
cavity. Those who have added them to plastic car roofs have resorted
to quarter spheres nestled in the corner between the cap and its
flange; an interesting effect, but not the correct placement.

The first product I recall seeing these on was the old Front Range
boxcars; Fred Brummet tooled elongated quarter spheres about the size
of eggs along the sides of the seam caps. Come to think of it, ALL the
roofs which have these rivets seem to trace their origins back to
Fred; first the Front Range cars, then the Innovative Model Works car
that went to Red Caboose, and more recently the cars from
Intermountain. On each succeeding project the psudo rivets have gotten
smaller; closer to scale, but also harder to see, and therefore easier
to justify simply omitting.

By the way, someone mentioned the welded roofs used on the Milwaukee
Road rib sides, and I recall a while back someone complaining that the
model of this roof lacks seam caps. As well it should, since the
prototype didn't have seam caps, the flanges of the roof sheets being
simply welded together along their upper edge.

Dennis

WEST INDIA FRUIT & FGEX

joel norman <mec-bml@...>
 

HELLO:Was there any corporate link between WIF and FGEX?and did FGEX
build or repair WIF cars?
Who offers HO scale cars for WIF( or whats close?)and who offers decals
for our modeling era for FGEX and WIF....
Thanks
Joel Norman

Re: 1937 AAR Boxcars - SP - trucks and roofs

Tim O'Connor
 

What is the prototype for the True Line Trains AAR truck w/ spring plank
(#900904)?

Tim O'

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Brian Leppert" <b.leppert@...>
--- In STMFC@..., "wmcclark1980" <walterclark@...> wrote:

Group,

I'm starting a few Red Caboose 1937 AAR boxcars, for SP and T&NO. I
searched the archives and found that InterMountain makes ASF
self-aligning spring-plankless 50ton AAR trucks, which work for part
of the group of boxcars from B-50-18 and B-50-21. I couldn't find
anything in the archives for the other trucks I need. I'm looking
for
something to use for the following two trucks:

ASF Barber-stabilized AAR solid bearing spring-plank AAR,
No one makes a Barber Stabilized S-2 truck with spring-plank detail
in HO, so what you might use instead depends on what prototype
features seem the most important.
Branchline's Barber S-2 truck has the distinctive cat ear contours
inside the bolster ends, but the side frame shape isn't quite right
and it has no spring plank.
Proto 2000's Bettendorf truck has about the right look, but has
neither spring plank nor stabilizer bolster details.
Accurail's Bettendorf truck has the spring-plank detail.

Bettendorf solid bearing spring-plankless AAR.
Bettendorf's and ASF's (American Steel Foundries) sideframes are
virtually the same for the self-aligning, spring-plankless double-
truss AAR trucks you need.
However, although InterMountain's ASF truck is great for some Santa
Fe cars, it does not represent a self-aligning, spring-plankless
double-truss truck, in my opinion.
Tichy's Bettendorf truck would have greatly represented this truck,
if it wasn't so undersize.
For now, Proto 2000's Bettendorf truck is probably your best
choice, even though it lacks the double-truss contours on the lower
side frame members and the springs are a little too small (IMO).
Or, you could wait until later this year, when I hope to have this
truck available. I will be starting tooling as soon as I get my
newest truck on the market.

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV

Re: Removing decals...

Aley, Jeff A
 

Paul,



I infer from your comments that you are knowledgable about
chemistry. Is the "Ethylene glycol monoethyl ether" the same stuff as
the ethylene glycol in anti-freeze? Can we strip decals with Prestone?



Regards,



-Jeff





________________________________

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
toftnii
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 8:10 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Removing decals...



--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Marcelo
Lordeiro" <mrcustom@...> wrote:


I believe that ethylene glycol and monoethyl ether are the 'active'
components in most products sold as "paint removers". This is messy
nasty stuff that you do not want to get on your hands.
Ethylene glycol monoethyl ether is ONE solvent, from a class known as
glycol ethers, which are indeed found in many paint strippers,
replacing methyl chloride as less dangerous, but still warranting care.
Paul Toftness

Re: Floquil thinner (way-back machine...)

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Ray Meyer wrote (referring to use of Floquil):
Spray on your color and after it has dried, then a coat of Glosscoat where the decals will go. I never get a visible buildup that way.
Full agreement, Ray. A very thin coat of Glosscoat has always worked for me. If your Floquil paint layer is "grainy," you're spraying from too far away and some droplets are drying en route to the model.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Re: Removing decals...

al_brown03
 

No, it isn't. Ethylene glycol is HO-CH2-CH2-OH, ethylene glycol
monoethyl ether is HO-CH2-CH2-O-CH2-CH3. Different beasts.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


--- In STMFC@..., "Aley, Jeff A" <Jeff.A.Aley@...> wrote:

Paul,



I infer from your comments that you are knowledgable
about
chemistry. Is the "Ethylene glycol monoethyl ether" the same stuff
as
the ethylene glycol in anti-freeze? Can we strip decals with
Prestone?



Regards,



-Jeff





________________________________

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On
Behalf Of
toftnii
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 8:10 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Removing decals...



--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%
40yahoogroups.com> , "Marcelo
Lordeiro" <mrcustom@> wrote:


I believe that ethylene glycol and monoethyl ether are
the 'active'
components in most products sold as "paint removers". This is
messy
nasty stuff that you do not want to get on your hands.
Ethylene glycol monoethyl ether is ONE solvent, from a class known
as
glycol ethers, which are indeed found in many paint strippers,
replacing methyl chloride as less dangerous, but still warranting
care.
Paul Toftness



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: 1937 AAR Boxcars - SP - trucks and roofs

Brian Leppert <b.leppert@...>
 

Tim,

The prototype for True Line Trains AAR truck was Accurail's "Bettendorf" truck. The lettering was omitted and the journal boxes are just a hair bigger, and the spring group is a separate, pressed-in part, but otherwise they copied Accurail's almost exactly, including the wheelbase.

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV

----- Original Message -----
From: <@timboconnor>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: 1937 AAR Boxcars - SP - trucks and roofs



What is the prototype for the True Line Trains AAR truck w/ spring plank
(#900904)?

Tim O'

Re: Floquil thinner (way-back machine...)

Tim O'Connor
 

I premix with Crystal Coat (a clearer, nonyellow version of Gloss)
about 1:2 and also as Tony says, spray with low pressure (~10lbs)
and not too far away. It won't be as smooth as Accupaint but it won't
have a paper towel finish either.

But mostly I use Floquil for highlighting, lightening, or weathering.
It is very finely ground, easy to control and less prone to sputter than
acrylics.

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Ray Meyer wrote (referring to use of Floquil):
Spray on your color and after it has dried, then a coat of Glosscoat
where the decals will go. I never get a visible buildup that way.
Full agreement, Ray. A very thin coat of Glosscoat has always
worked for me. If your Floquil paint layer is "grainy," you're spraying
from too far away and some droplets are drying en route to the model.

Tony Thompson

Re: Floquil thinner (way-back machine...)

Greg Martin
 

IIRC the "new"est version of Floquil is called REV2. It was introduced to address the California AQMD issues, at least that is what I was told in Chicago by the Testors rep.

Greg Martin

-----Original Message-----
From: David North <davenorth@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 6:20 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Floquil thinner (way-back machine...)






What do people mean by "old" and "new" Floquil? Is "new" Floquil the
water-based paint?

Jerry Michels

Hi Gerry,

Floquil changed their formula a few years back to address the crazing issues
on styrene of the original line.

The old bottles had a silhouette of an 1800s era steam engine and general
data is printed in red on the label.

The new bottles have the paint name and number in bolded print and the loco
outline looks like a Streamlined Hudson and general data is printed in black
on the label.

I use general purpose automotive paint thinners for all Floquil with good
results.

And as Bruce said, there is Polly Scale which is acrylic and can be thinned
with water.

Cheers

Dave

Re: Floquil thinner (way-back machine...)

Jeff Coleman
 

I use 1 part paint 1 part gloss and one part xylene, mixed in the
color cup @ 10-12lbs, no problems.
Jeff Coleman


--- In STMFC@..., timboconnor@... wrote:


I premix with Crystal Coat (a clearer, nonyellow version of Gloss)
about 1:2 and also as Tony says, spray with low pressure (~10lbs)
and not too far away. It won't be as smooth as Accupaint but it
won't
have a paper towel finish either.

But mostly I use Floquil for highlighting, lightening, or
weathering.
It is very finely ground, easy to control and less prone to sputter
than
acrylics.

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Ray Meyer wrote (referring to use of Floquil):
Spray on your color and after it has dried, then a coat of
Glosscoat
where the decals will go. I never get a visible buildup that
way.

Full agreement, Ray. A very thin coat of Glosscoat has
always
worked for me. If your Floquil paint layer is "grainy," you're
spraying
from too far away and some droplets are drying en route to the
model.

Tony Thompson

Re: Floquil thinner (way-back machine...)

Gene Green <bierglaeser@...>
 

Richard,
Thanks for explanation.
Gene

--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
wrote:

On Jun 23, 2008, at 5:10 PM, Gene Green wrote:

"I seldom use Floquil (never on a car that has to be lettered with
decals), said Richard Hendrickson in message #73750.

Why, Richard?. Is that because of Floquil's flat finish?
Floquil's finish isn't just flat, it's grainy, and if you mix
enough
glaze into it to make it shiny enough to take decals, you end up
with
thick glop that obscures details - and then you have to apply flat
finish to hide the decals. Scalecoat works much better, IMHO.

Richard Hendrickson


Reading hoppers photo

Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

An interesting/tragic pair of photos of a train wreck on Ebay this evening - shows an interesting string of older Reading hoppers - interesting gons and reefers too - must have been mid 30's or earlier given the billboard reefer schemes. (No I'm not realted to the seller in any way - just browsing and found it an interesitng pair of photos.) Auction number 220248325916.

Rob Kirkham,

Re: Reading hoppers photo

Cyril Durrenberger
 

it has the date as 9-10-30

Cyril Durrenberger

Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote:
An interesting/tragic pair of photos of a train wreck on Ebay this evening -
shows an interesting string of older Reading hoppers - interesting gons and
reefers too - must have been mid 30's or earlier given the billboard reefer
schemes. (No I'm not realted to the seller in any way - just browsing and
found it an interesitng pair of photos.) Auction number 220248325916.

Rob Kirkham,