Date   

Re: NYC Milk Car

Roger Hinman <rhinman@...>
 

sides

Roger Hinman

On Jun 28, 2008, at 9:26 PM, rdietrichson wrote:

Hey all,
On the milk car photo that is up for auction on Ebay, does anyone know
if the end color matched the roof, black, or the sides, pullman green?
Rick Dietrichson
Wilmington,NC



Re: New Tahoe Truck

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jun 29, 2008, at 2:51 PM, Brian Leppert wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., "wmcclark1980" <walterclark@...> wrote:
It would be nice (hint,
hint) if Brian would tell us what truck he's working on now, as well
as a projected time line for the next truck.
The newest HO freight car truck from Tahoe Model Works is what much
of the hobby still calls a "bettendorf". I'm calling it a "Buckeye
A.R.A. 50-ton Truck". The real sideframe I measured and photographed
was made by the Buckeye Steel Casting Co. and included a spring plank
and four coil springs per sideframe grouped close together.

This sideframe is illustrated in Buckeye's ads in the 1928 and 1931
Car Builder Cyclopedias and pictured in Mainline Modeler May and July
2001 and May 1986 issues under C&O 8000-9499 series and Pere
Marquette 82000-83499 series 1930 built steel boxcars.

It will be available for sale in just a few weeks. I'll post more
information then.

I hope to have the next project, an AAR self-aligning, spring-
plankless double-truss truck finished by the end of this year.























Brian, this is all very good news. The trucks you've done so far in
HO have been superb, and the forthcoming trucks will represent a
significant advance in accuracy and detail over what is already
available. I'll be looking forward to them, and will plan to replace
a bunch of trucks I have on models already built.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: pulp and paper

David Smith
 

I recently acquired a NYC car inspector's log book from the mid-40's,
apparently from somewhere in central NY state (based on destinations listed
for car mileage in back) Cars are all noted as "paper" or as some defect
"door not tight," "lime on floor," "cement on floor," etc. I don't know if
that means this inspector was working a track or yard dedicated to a paper
mill or if it was simply that cars good enough for paper were assumed good
enough for any other clean lading as well.

Dave Smith

On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 8:48 AM, Roger Robar <rrobar@...> wrote:



_____

On Behalf Of Malcolm Laughlin
Subject: [STMFC] pulp and paper


I have a question about the use of box cars in the paper inducstry. The
Chesapeake System has a large paper mill that receives pulp and ships paper
in box cars.

What is the ratio of inbound to outbound for pulp and paper. I'm using
about
3 to 2 for making waybills. Is that about right ?

To what extent are inbound box cars with pulp suitable for outbound paper
loading. Absent any real information, I'd assume that grade of car required
for pulp isn't necessarily suited for paper. Can anyone shed some light on
this question ?

Malcolm,

If I understand your question(s) right boxcars loaded with pulpwood were
never used for shipping finish paper rolls to its destinations. The empty
pulpwood boxcars where routed back to be loaded again. The railroads
usually
had a high priority to send good clean boxcars to the paper mills for
shipping the finished paper rolls. I have no knowledge to make comment
about
the Chesapeake System paper mill and what their ratio of in-bound or
out-bound cars would be; however I know the B&M had cleaning tracks at
Woodsville lower yards for the sole purpose of providing clean boxcars for
the Groveton and Berlin paper mills.. The late Tim Gilbert explained to me
the importance of boxcars for my paper mill inspired B&M 1950's era layout.


Roger Robar_,___




--
David L. Smith
Da Vinci Science Center
Allentown, PA
http://www.davinci-center.org

Please consider the environment before printing this email.


Re: Soo Line boxcar questions

Schuyler Larrabee
 

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Dennis Storzek


The
original 4' high "boxcar block" lettering was introduced midway through the
1951 production run, and became standard for all steel boxcars at that
time. Lots of cars were repainted in this scheme, and the next, "boxcar
block II" which changed the shape of the S. The Venus Bold lettering was
developed shortly after the Soo, WC, and DSS&A merged in 1961, but not very
many 40' boxcars were ever repainted into this scheme.
Dennis, can you provide some photos (or links to them) that would clarify the difference between
"Boxcar Block," "Boxcar block II," and the Venus Bold versions?

I'm fairly sure I have the last firmly in mind, but I would like to be more sure about the first
two.

Thanks


SGL


Re: New Tahoe Truck

Mark
 

Keep up the good work!
Sincerely, Mark Morgan

--- On Sun, 6/29/08, Brian Leppert <b.leppert@...> wrote:

From: Brian Leppert <b.leppert@...>
Subject: [STMFC] New Tahoe Truck
To: STMFC@...
Date: Sunday, June 29, 2008, 5:51 PM






--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, "wmcclark1980" <walterclark@ ...> wrote:
It would be nice (hint,
hint) if Brian would tell us what truck he's working on now, as well
as a projected time line for the next truck.
The newest HO freight car truck from Tahoe Model Works is what much
of the hobby still calls a "bettendorf" . I'm calling it a "Buckeye
A.R.A. 50-ton Truck". The real sideframe I measured and photographed
was made by the Buckeye Steel Casting Co. and included a spring plank
and four coil springs per sideframe grouped close together.

This sideframe is illustrated in Buckeye's ads in the 1928 and 1931
Car Builder Cyclopedias and pictured in Mainline Modeler May and July
2001 and May 1986 issues under C&O 8000-9499 series and Pere
Marquette 82000-83499 series 1930 built steel boxcars.

It will be available for sale in just a few weeks. I'll post more
information then.

I hope to have the next project, an AAR self-aligning, spring-
plankless double-truss truck finished by the end of this year.

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV


New Tahoe Truck

Brian Leppert <b.leppert@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "wmcclark1980" <walterclark@...> wrote:
It would be nice (hint,
hint) if Brian would tell us what truck he's working on now, as well
as a projected time line for the next truck.
The newest HO freight car truck from Tahoe Model Works is what much
of the hobby still calls a "bettendorf". I'm calling it a "Buckeye
A.R.A. 50-ton Truck". The real sideframe I measured and photographed
was made by the Buckeye Steel Casting Co. and included a spring plank
and four coil springs per sideframe grouped close together.

This sideframe is illustrated in Buckeye's ads in the 1928 and 1931
Car Builder Cyclopedias and pictured in Mainline Modeler May and July
2001 and May 1986 issues under C&O 8000-9499 series and Pere
Marquette 82000-83499 series 1930 built steel boxcars.

It will be available for sale in just a few weeks. I'll post more
information then.

I hope to have the next project, an AAR self-aligning, spring-
plankless double-truss truck finished by the end of this year.

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV


Re: Steel truss bridge

spsalso
 

I am definitely not a bridge expert; but, as we say, I took a couple
of classes. If my assertions are incorrect, I hope someone will
correct me/them.

In a steel truss, there is no reason for the verticals to actually be
vertical. What's happening is that there are a series of triangles
being formed. The fact that there are vertical members is just a
convenience of manufacture and perhaps of aesthetics. An exception
could be for trusses with vertical cables as they can accept no
compressive loads, but I think for the very minor deviation from
vertical for a railroad bridge that that would involve, it wouldn't
matter.

However, the loading of the members will change for a bridge that is
not flat. This is only slight, but if I were designing an inclined
truss bridge, I'd still run the calcs.

Also of interest are the bridge shoes and abutments. The abutments
will probably be built just as if the bridge were level but will be
raised and lowered appropriately. The bridge shoes which normally
"only" take vertical loads will have a horizontal component. For
this reason, I would expect that the rolling bridge shoes will be on
the high side of the bridge--they transmit only vertical loads. The
fixed shoes will however receive the horizontal component of the
bridge and load. I expect it's much better to feed a compressive
load into the abutment and surrounding earth than it is a tension
load. Thus the fixed shoes should be on the downhill side of the
bridge.

All this is descriptive of only a single span bridge. If there were
multi-spans on a grade, it might get a bit sticky. Essentially, the
vertical piers would have to take horizontal loads too. I think this
would result in a much stouter design, especially for masonry.

Edward Sutorik


Re: NYC Milk Car 6460

rdietrichson
 

Ed
I believe that NJ International did this car in HO as well as N, but it was some years ago.(Mid 80's?)
Rick Dietrichson
Wilmington, NC

----- Original Message -----
From: Edward Sommer
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 3:28 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] NYC Milk Car 6460


Group,
I asked this question on the PCL when this was posted there and did receive a couple of responses. I know there are a couple of NYC experts on this list so I'll ask again: does anyone know if there is an HO model of this milk car. I ask because these cars show up in the consist lists of the book "Ghost Trains of the SP", the book on the Overland mail trains and I would like to have one of these cars for my train.
TIA,
Ed Sommer
San Jose, CA

----- Original Message ----
From: rwitt_2000 <rwitt_2000@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 12:03:24 PM
Subject: [STMFC] NYC Milk Car 6460

This item was recently placed on ebay.

PICTURES OF NYC MILK CAR 6460, SIDE AND END VIEW AND A SMALL BLUEPRINT,
MEASURES APPROX 8 X 12.", A B & W PHOTO

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180258556675&ssPageNa\;
&#92;
me=ADME:B:SS:US:1123
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180258556675&ssPageN\;
ame=ADME:B:SS:US:1123>

Bob Witt

I also posted this on the Passenger Car List


Re: Prototype Railroad Modeling I (1981) ?

Ed Sommer
 

Kurt,
I also have Vol 1 and, as far as I know, a Vol 2 was never published.
 Ed Sommer
San Jose, CA


"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." B.Franklin

----- Original Message ----
From: Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 7:10:46 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Prototype Railroad Modeling I (1981) ?

Prototype Railroad Modeling I was a compilation of articles from "Prototype Modeler", the SFMA's "High Iron", and (I'm guessing) "Western Prototype Modeler" published in 1981.  The front matter states that Vol II was underway.  Where any further volumes ever published?

KL

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: NYC Milk Car 6460

Ed Sommer
 

Group,
I asked this question on the PCL when this was posted there and did receive a couple of responses.  I know there are a couple of NYC experts on this list so I'll ask again:  does anyone know if there is an HO model of this milk car.  I ask because these cars show up in the consist lists of the book "Ghost Trains of the SP", the book on the Overland mail trains and I would like to have one of these cars for my train.
TIA,
 Ed Sommer
San Jose, CA

----- Original Message ----
From: rwitt_2000 <rwitt_2000@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 12:03:24 PM
Subject: [STMFC] NYC Milk Car 6460

This item was recently placed on ebay.

PICTURES OF NYC MILK CAR 6460, SIDE AND END VIEW AND A SMALL BLUEPRINT,
MEASURES APPROX 8 X 12.", A B & W PHOTO

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180258556675&ssPageNa\;
&#92;
me=ADME:B:SS:US:1123
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180258556675&ssPageN\;
ame=ADME:B:SS:US:1123>

Bob Witt

I also posted this on the Passenger Car List


Re: GN1152 - type 11 tank car

Rich Yoder
 

Hi Rob,
I am by no means an ACF Tank car expert but to my eye this isn't an ACF
car. I think it's too long to be from the type 11 series which was very
similar to the type 7 cars in design which I am very familiar with. Type
7 cars were all 33' long with the tank diameter differing to obtain a
greater capacity. In addition the dome appears to be much larger in
diameter than an ACF style dome of the early teens vintage.

Sincerely, Rich Yoder
7 Edgedale Court
Wyomissing PA 19610-1913
610-678-2834 after 6:00PM est until 10:00PM
www.richyodermodels.com

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Rob Kirkham
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 1:24 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] GN1152 - type 11 tank car

I noticed this car on Ebay tonight - what looks like a AC&F type 11 car
with
the upper tank made of 5 radial courses; the lower tank one single
horizontal course. Ebay auction 160252407483. Single rivet seems used
except along the horizontal seem. I can't tell if it was an 8000 or
10000
gallon car? Would this have been original equipment on the GN or someon

else's purchase, sold as used later on?

Rob Kirkham


Re: Soo Line boxcar questions

buchwaldfam <duff@...>
 

Yeah, they didn't get along too well... ;>

Phil Buchwald



--- In STMFC@..., "Schuyler Larrabee"
<schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:


my aunt, an
english teacher, was busy correcting my grammer during the
trip.... :>

Regards,
Phil Buchwald

So, your grandmother was with you too?

;^)

SGL


Re: Soo Line boxcar questions

Dennis Storzek
 

Re: [STMFC] Soo Line boxcar questions

Jim, if the car has Youngstown doors and S-corner ends, then
it's correct for these Soo/WC cars built in 1936.

I expect the cars would have been repainted before 1964.

Ted Culotta's web site is a good reference...
http://www.steamfreightcars.com/prototype/frtcars/1937aarpdfmain.html

The later 10'6" cars were far more numerous on Soo/WC. The old
Athearn 40' steel box car is actually correct for Soo & IC.

Tim O'Connor
Anything is possible, I suppose, but I tend to agree with Tim. The "$" herald with the black background was used on new steel cars built before and during WWII, even as the black background disappeared from cars the road was repainting in its own shops as an austerity move. When the Soo started assembling their own boxcars in 1948, these were built with car color backgrounds in the heralds, but I have never seen any evidence that any earlier steel cars were repainted such; the period of usage was too short, and the older cars were still too new to need repainting. The original 4' high "boxcar block" lettering was introduced midway through the 1951 production run, and became standard for all steel boxcars at that time. Lots of cars were repainted in this scheme, and the next, "boxcar block II" which changed the shape of the S. The Venus Bold lettering was developed shortly after the Soo, WC, and DSS&A merged in 1961, but not very many 40' boxcars were ever repainted into this scheme.

My personal recollection, dating from when I started railfanning the Soo in 1968, was that the $ was completely gone from steel boxcars at that time. I've never seen one, but have seen photos of cars with both black and FCR heralds behind diesels, so they did last well into the fifties. Of course some of the last cars to be repainted were those 1948 and early 1951 home builds, because they weren't very old at the time of the merger.

A word of caution; DPH run of custom Red Caboose cars had a strangely distorted herald; the parallelogram had too much angle, the result of working off a builder's photo that was made with a view camera's swings and tilts being employed. Go to"

http://www.sooline.org/home.html

The masthead has a cut of the $ herald for reference.


Dennis Storzek
Big Rock, IL


Re: Steel center beams

Dennis Storzek
 

Re: [STMFC] Steel center beams

The current AAR interchange rules are written such that things aren't
"banned", but that RRs are "prohibited from accepting in interchange" cars
with the particular features. I would imagine that this format was followed
throughout the Twentieth Century.
Actually, as I recall, the language was, "prohibited from OFFERING in interchange." The receiving road could accept whatever they chose; it's still that way today with "plain" bearing journals. It's the originating road that is supposed to know that they can't load a car that doesn't comply with the interchange rules and then expect another road to take it.

Also, the FRA or predecessors like the ICC were given the legal authority to
control RRs by Congress and that they have delegated the definition of the
technical particulars to the AAR or predecessors like the MCBA.

KL
Only in cases where Congress specifically authorized the ICC to enforce particular laws; boiler code, power brake, automatic couplers, safety appliance, and hours of service requirements were all defined in Acts of Congress,and had the force of law, as did the ICC's original purpose of regulating railroad rates and rate making practice. Other items, like the AAR code of Interchange rules, were essentially voluntary agreements between the members of the AAR. It wasn't until Congress created the FRA in the late sixties, past the time of this list, that EVERYTHING became a Federal mandate. Prior to this, AAR rules for items not specifically addressed by the Federal mandate of the ICC were handled as agreements between the members of the AAR. A condensed version of the Car Service and Per Diem Agreement in printed in the back of most (all?) issues of the ORER, and the language of the preamble makes it very clear that this is an agreement between the parties, not a law.


Dennis Storzek
Big Rock, IL


Re: Steel center beams

water.kresse@...
 

I have seen what appears to be stub-frames at each end of 30-ton stock, flat, and gondola wooden cars shown in a 1922 C&O/C&O of Indiana FC Diag Shts package . . . which refer to channel construction draft gear arms. These drawings were crude and often the draftsperson only made minimal drawing changes and just added a note. Notes and Val photos of the same era don't always agree either as to which car-series got updated. C&O Richmond Offices "must" of started more detailled FC Diag Shts of new or rebuilt cars only right after the USRA returned their fleet of cars back to them. Then there is a void of surviving C&O "old, complete" FC Diagram Books until we get into the 30s. Miscl "obsolete" diagram sheets also exist.

Al Kresse

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
On Jun 28, 2008, at 11:59 AM, rwitt_2000 wrote:

For my clarification, does your reply imply that steel was not
required
from striker plate-to-striker plate? If the draft sills were steel
could
the body bolsters still be wood and the freight car still be
accepted in
interchange?
It's my understanding that the steel draft sills had to be directly
connected to the steel draft gear housings at each end of the car,
which would rule out wood body bolsters.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Steel truss bridge

Jim Betz
 

It is actually relatively rare that the track on a bridge is not level.
Most RR bridges have a level approach on both ends of the bridge. There
are a few bridges where this is not done but it is rare and, I believe,
requires considerably different engineering of the bridge.
On our layouts, in contrast, it is relatively rare to see those level
approaches because our bridges are all too often cut into a heavy grade.

But I like CJ's idea of a 'constantly changing' outside braced box car.
Maybe we could go back to STMFC practices and put a "brace man" on the
tops of the cars with a wheel that re-aligned the trusses. *G*

- Jim in San Jose


Re: Steel center beams

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

The current AAR interchange rules are written such that things aren't "banned", but that RRs are "prohibited from accepting in interchange" cars with the particular features. I would imagine that this format was followed throughout the Twentieth Century.

Also, the FRA or predecessors like the ICC were given the legal authority to control RRs by Congress and that they have delegated the definition of the technical particulars to the AAR or predecessors like the MCBA.

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: water.kresse@...

Was the MCBA empowered do the "banning" . . . or did it just get a consensus from the railroads and then submit that to some federal institution . . . or was there then just a right to refuse a car as you passed on a car to another railroad?


Re: Steel center beams

water.kresse@...
 

Guy,

Was the MCBA empowered do the "banning" . . . or did it just get a consensus from the railroads and then submit that to some federal institution . . . or was there then just a right to refuse a car as you passed on a car to another railroad?

Al Kresse

-------------- Original message --------------
From: guycwilber@...
In a message dated 6/27/2008 7:55:54 PM Central Daylight Time,
water.kresse@... writes:

This is a little early for this list but when did the MCBA "ban" cars
not having steel center sill beams, sticking past their end-sills, for
draft-gear attachment from interchange service. Apparently the were
different rules for cars less than or equal to 30-tons, and those over
30-tons. Was there a recommended date for new freight cars having full-
length center sill beams?
Al,


Steel center sills were required on all cars built new or rebuilt on, or
after, January 1, 1927.

Cars built with all wood underframes, Class "F", were banned (in
interchange) on January 1, 1935.

Regards,

Guy Wilber
West Bend, WI

**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)


Re: Soo Line boxcar questions

Schuyler Larrabee
 

my aunt, an
english teacher, was busy correcting my grammer during the
trip.... :>

Regards,
Phil Buchwald

So, your grandmother was with you too?

;^)

SGL


Re: Soo Line boxcar questions

buchwaldfam <duff@...>
 

I wish I could give you an exact date, but I saw several Soo Line
box cars standing on a bridge in central Wisconsin, still bearing
faded $ heralds. The thing that struck me, and created a lasting
memory was how they incorporated the dollar sign into the spelling
of a word. My "build date" was 8-62, and the occasion of the
encounter was when I was at least 6 years old, as my aunt, an
english teacher, was busy correcting my grammer during the
trip.... :>
I maintain that some cars were still around in well worn dollar
sign markings in 1964 and later.

Regards,
Phil Buchwald


--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Jim, if the car has Youngstown doors and S-corner ends, then
it's correct for these Soo/WC cars built in 1936.

I expect the cars would have been repainted before 1964.

Ted Culotta's web site is a good reference...
http://www.steamfreightcars.com/prototype/frtcars/1937aarpdfmain.html

The later 10'6" cars were far more numerous on Soo/WC. The old
Athearn 40' steel box car is actually correct for Soo & IC.

Tim O'Connor


I have acquired a steam era Soo Line boxcar kit, a custom Red
Caboose run offered through Des Plaines Hobbies some time ago.
Boxcar has black $oo Line herald, road number 136182, nominally
a 1937 AAR standard 10'-0" foot inside height car, built date
8-36.

- Would this boxcar have a Youngstown door or Superior door?
Especially after long service. My available Soo Line boxcar
photos all show later postwar cars, "SOO LINE" billboard
lettering, and all Youngstown doors.


- The 1964 equipment register shows half this series still in
revenue service. Is it plausible that the original Soo paint
would be on such a car after 25-30 years service??

119741 - 119760 of 193481