Date   
Re: Multi-fuel farm tractors.

Donald B. Valentine
 

According to my 1938-1939 John Deere "Farmer's Pocket Ledger" from
the long defunct Munson Store in Morrisville, VT it appears that the
entire John Deere line in that period was available with engines that
burned either gasoline or kerosene. I learned to mow on a 1938 John
Deere Model B that I can well remember, and it is still in existence.
One opened a petcock on each of the two cylinders to reduce the
compression, made sure the fuel valve was set for gasoline and
everything else was set before giving the flywheel a spin. After
warming up a minute or two the petcocks were closed and the fuel was
switched over to kerosene. This was a tricyle wheel arranged tractor
but could be had with a single front wheel for certain row crops,
down to 16 in. between rows, or an adjustable wide front end allowing
a spacing from 56 to 80 in. The latter arrangement was really
beginning to take hold in the years following WW II to the point
where I don't recall ever seeing a Ford tractor with a tricyle wheel
arrangement. The John Deere Model B, Farmall H and Ford 8N were the
most common farm tractors in use in northern Vermont around 1950 with
a few Case and even fewer Allis-Chalmers to be seen as well. The
Oliver line began to sow up about that time and Ferguson picked up
quickly on its own after Henry and Harry had their famous falling
out. IMHO Ferguson made the success of the Ford tractor line, though
it continued quite well after the split. But Ford never offered any
equipment worth owning to use with their tractors other than plows.
Some Canadian tractors such as the Cockshutt were seen on occasion as
well.

How all this equipment arrived was of equal interest, and more
appropriate for this list. My late friend Phil Hastings chased and
photographed the local freight on the B&M's Concord to Claremont,
N.H. line on day about this time with a full load of six new Farmall
H's of M's on a flat car. The tractor loaded flat car shows up in two
or three photos in his book on the B&M and I am fortunate to have
others from that day's outing here. By the time my memory really
began the Munson Store had turned the John Deere dealership in
Morrisville over to Wards and the Salls Bros. has an International
Harvester dealership together with their Studebaker dealership in
the village as well. Given the popularity of Studebaker trucks on
Lamoille County farms at that time this must have been a good
arrangement. Over in Cambridge, on the west end of the county,
T. J. McGovern had a large International Harvester dealership in
combination with his large grain business. When the Burlington &
Lamoille Branch of the Central Vermont Rwy. was abandoned in 1938
the St.J. & L.C. took over about two miles of it to serve a large
saw mill in Jeffersonville. Concerned about his ability to receive
grain and farm machinery, McGovern took over another five miles over
which he moved single cars with a farm tractor as his sole source of
motive power! Just how long that lasted I'm not sure but know a few
oldtimers who still recall it. Ford farm equipment in those years
seems to have come mostly from Ed Collins in Waterbury until he
closed in the late 1950's. That was the beginning of a trend that
saw farmers traveling further and further to go to their farm
equipment dealer. Indeed, L. W. Greenwood & Sons, in East Randolph,
VT is the only farm machinery dealership in Vermont which I can
recall that remains in the same family, or much as it was, in the
1950's. They have survived even though they never had the advantage,
in earlier years, of having rail delivery available almost right to
their door.

To return to Morrisville, the team track there in the post-war
years was the true reflection of a community with an agricultural
base. New autos and trucks arrived in box cars of the appropriate
size and configuration, with larger trucks arriving on flat cars.
Presumedly, other farm machinery and household appliances for the
several stores in town dealing in such goods also arrived in box
cars. Some scrap metal even went out in gondolas, though not nearly
so much as went out that way in the scrap drives I've seen photos of
from the earliest period of W.W. II. In the springtime carloads of
both bagged fertilizer and bagged lime, the latter primarily from
Swanton in a one railroad move, could be seen being unloaded on the
two team tracks. Some was ordered direct by farmers, while the rest
was for the Eastern States Farmers Exchange store, H. A. Slayton &
Sons grain business or the United Farmers Creamery Association's
cooperative store. From late October and about Thanksgiving these
same track often held both gondolas and flat cars with high stakes
along their sides. These were soon piled high with bundles Christmas
trees being shipped as far south as Florida. Like everything else,
unfortunately, by 1960 most of these freight movements were either
gone or had been converted to truck shipment and even Ward's was in
its last years as a John Deere dealership.

Don Valentine



--- In STMFC@..., "Douglas Harding" <dharding@...> wrote:

Correction on my last posting: Farmall MD's were built 1941-1952. I
thought they were later than that, but I was thinking of the
Farmall Super H's & M's which were built in the 50's
http://www.tractordata.com/td/001/td1113.html states the Farmall MD
was the
diesel version of the M. The MD was started on gasoline, by pulling
a lever which enlarged the combustion chamber (to lower the
compression) and closed the circuit for the spark plugs. After the
engine was warm, it was switched over to diesel. Farmall built
a few all fuel tractors that could operate on distillate or
kerosene. Models included the F-20 built 1932-39, the F-30 built
1931-1939, and the M built 1939-1952.

I believe the HO LifeLike tractor is a Farmall Super M-TA built in
1954.

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org

RPM Returns to the NMRA National Convention!

Timothy Costello
 

The Western Prototype Modelers, (WPM) will sponsor the Railroad Prototype Modelers (RPM) Room at the NMRA National Convention. Location will be at NMRA convention headquarters, the Anaheim Marriott, in the “Elite Ballroom”.

The RPM Room will be open for two days only: Wednesday-Thursday, July 16-17, 2008 from 12:00pm noon, to 10:00pm.

As at the annual WPM meet, tables will be elevated for improved model display and viewing. There will be a WPM/RPM staffer at the door to provide security for the display area. If attending the convention, be sure to join us. Bring your models for display; meet fellow modelers from across the country and around the world.

For questions on the RPM Room at the NMRA National Convention, contact Timothy Costello through the WPM website: info@...

One final note, The Western Prototype Modelers meet, WPM will be held this year on September 6, 2008 at the La Habra Community Center, La Habra (Orange County) California. For event details, go to: http://www.westernprototypemodelers.org/

Re: RPM Returns to the NMRA National Convention!

Jack Burgess
 

That is great to hear...I'll be stopping by.

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com

The Western Prototype Modelers, (WPM) will sponsor the Railroad
Prototype Modelers (RPM) Room at the NMRA National Convention.
Location will be at NMRA convention headquarters, the Anaheim
Marriott, in the “Elite Ballroom”.

The RPM Room will be open for two days only: Wednesday-Thursday,
July 16-17, 2008 from 12:00pm noon, to 10:00pm.

As at the annual WPM meet, tables will be elevated for improved
model display and viewing. There will be a WPM/RPM staffer at
the door to provide security for the display area. If attending
the convention, be sure to join us. Bring your models for
display; meet fellow modelers from across the country and around
the world.

For questions on the RPM Room at the NMRA National Convention,
contact Timothy Costello through the WPM website:
info@...

One final note, The Western Prototype Modelers meet, WPM will be
held this year on September 6, 2008 at the La Habra Community
Center, La Habra (Orange County) California. For event details,
go to: http://www.westernprototypemodelers.org/

Re: SP Overnight service

Tim O'Connor
 

Thanks Paul.

Not to mention the large number of standard 40ft box cars used
in LCL service. I suspect that SP painted so many cars for the
"Overnight" service to protect the uniform appearance of those
trains more than anything else -- the cars were completely
ordinary for the most part, although some B-50-15/16 cars had
side ladders by the doors.

http://www.steamfreightcars.com/modeling/models/oconnor/sp32481main.html

Tim O'Connor

Tim,
Your count is right for the B-50-24's, but do not forget there were a
number of B-50-15 &16's also in this service. Particularly the B-50-16's
in the late 40's.
Paul Lyons
Liguna Niguel, CA

Re: Sunshine data sheets (Re: SP Overnight service)

Tim O'Connor
 

On that matter, if people have corrections or supplemental data
for Sunshine model data sheets, it would be very helpful to post
it -- maybe create a folder in the files section for Sunshine
data sheets?

Tim O'Connor

Good point, Paul, and I should not have left the impression that
ALL cars in Overnight service had A-3 trucks. All the B-50-24 cars were
so delivered, but the older cars (B-50-15 and -16) had a variety of
trucks, only some of which were A-3.
I take it you are not always confident of the accuracy of
Sunshine Data Sheets? <g>

Tony Thompson

Re: B&O boxcar red

ltctilley
 

I use PollyS Special Oxide Red 414354. Then after decaling, I use light
vertical brush strokes with testors dulcote (it often makes the decals run, just
like the real letters chalk). Then a light overspray with very thin oxide
red again and a little grime.
Chris Tilley

In a message dated 7/4/2008 11:30:15 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
rstern1@... writes:




Thanks Fred.

Good advice, and I'll check into it.

Perhaps the question I should also have asked is for color photos of &O
boxcars. Recognizing that colors can come through odd on the web,
seeing some next to other cars might provide some idea of how to go
with this.

Thanks
Rick







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Intermountain Erie PS-1 84000

Mark
 

I have three of these and found the builders outline on Elwoods site.
Did these cars have Apex roofwalks? It appears they had A-3 trucks.

Any help will be appreciated.
Sincerely, Mark Morgan

Re: Intermountain Erie PS-1 84000

al.kresse
 

Mark,

From my AMC Cleveland Erie 9-19 diag sht we have for ERIE 84000-84009, blt 1954, lot 8160 -

> Superior doors

> P-S Cushion Underframes

> Cast steel for A-3 Ride Control trucks

> No supplier listed for the running boards

Al Kresse

PS: The C&O had 10 similar cars for shipping plate glass

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Mark Morgan" <bnonut@...>
I have three of these and found the builders outline on Elwoods site.
Did these cars have Apex roofwalks? It appears they had A-3 trucks.

Any help will be appreciated.
Sincerely, Mark Morgan

Re: 1940s tank car questions

D. Scott Chatfield
 

Steve Sandifer wrote:
Not sure exactly what you are asking, but I have photos from Eureka,
KS, where there was a single pipe located on the house track that ran
nearly a block away to a bulk oil dealer. You could model that so that
the tanks were "in the aisle" and the operational spot would not take
up any space at all.

I recall a bulk oil dealer in Lebanon, TN whose storage tanks were on the other side of the road from their spur (served by Tennessee Central).

Scott Chatfield

Re: Intermountain Erie PS-1 84000

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Note, these Erie cars need new underframes since they had the PS cushion
underframe. I've held off on building any of these small lots, until I can
find an underframe drawing. I've never found out how PS persuaded these
roads to try the cars with cushion underframes. Roads that had these cars
include:
BAR 5
C&O 10
Erie 10
GN 15
N&W 5
NYC 25
PRR 20
WP 10
May have been others.
Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

Re: Intermountain Erie PS-1 84000

al.kresse
 

The diagram sht for C&O 2990-2999, last revised in 1968 (vs. drwg 1955, no revisions for the Erie 84000 sht) for these 1954 built cars has the following note --

PULLMAN CUSHION UNDERFRAME - Rubber Cushion Gear - 8" Travel

Also notes APEX TRI-LOK running board & brake step (might have been an upgrade)

Lot 8160-E

Also notes a " 10" channel center sill 28.3 # per Ft. Pullman Cushion

So get you CBCs out and check out END-OF-CAR Cushioning systems and see what you have to add. I notes standard Pullman underframe.

My source: C&OHS DS 7-049 FC diagram book updated 1969

Al Kresse

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Brian J Carlson" <brian@...>
Note, these Erie cars need new underframes since they had the PS cushion
underframe. I've held off on building any of these small lots, until I can
find an underframe drawing. I've never found out how PS persuaded these
roads to try the cars with cushion underframes. Roads that had these cars
include:
BAR 5
C&O 10
Erie 10
GN 15
N&W 5
NYC 25
PRR 20
WP 10
May have been others.
Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

web site updated

Peter Ness
 

I've updated my "Work in Progress" page which includes a very mini
review of the IM (CSS) NE-5 caboose...my updated "Links" page includes
a link to a more detailed review on this product as well.

New pages added for New Haven fans include cab units, head end cars and
electrics (beyond the scope of this group, but still 1959)

Happy modeling,
Peter
http://www.freewebs.com/newhavenrailroad1959/

Re: Intermountain Erie PS-1 84000

al.kresse
 

It would be intersting to find out if all eight of these RRs used the same Pullman lot number.

Also, were they true P-S 1s in Feb 1954?

Al Kresse

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Brian J Carlson" <brian@...>
Note, these Erie cars need new underframes since they had the PS cushion
underframe. I've held off on building any of these small lots, until I can
find an underframe drawing. I've never found out how PS persuaded these
roads to try the cars with cushion underframes. Roads that had these cars
include:
BAR 5
C&O 10
Erie 10
GN 15
N&W 5
NYC 25
PRR 20
WP 10
May have been others.
Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

Re: Intermountain Erie PS-1 84000

Ed Hawkins
 

On Jul 5, 2008, at 4:06 PM, water.kresse@... wrote:

It would be intersting to find out if all eight of these RRs used the
same Pullman lot number.

Also, were they true P-S 1s in Feb 1954?
Al,
All 100 of the cars with Pullman cushioned underframes were built under
the same lot number, however, there were different letters applied (lot
8160A through H). All of them are listed on the 40' PS-1 roster list on
the STMFC web site.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

Re: 1940s tank car questions

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@..., blindog@... wrote:

I recall a bulk oil dealer in Lebanon, TN whose storage tanks were
on the other side of the road from their spur (served by Tennessee
Central).

Scott Chatfield
Someplace I have a forties era survey map of my little corner of the
world in Elburn, IL. It shows two bulk oil jobbers lined up along a
C&NW spur, and IN BETWEEN the two, a third unloading stand piped out
to the street, then under the public street, to a jobber located
across the street from the other two.

Ah, the American way of life, with good ol' capitalistic competition.
Most modelers want to build a model of a town that has one of
everything; one elevator, one coal dealer, one lumberyard, one bulk
oil dealer... The problem is, the reality of the situation is that
most places that were large enough to support one of a type of
merchant normally had two, in competition with each other: two oil
dealers, two places to buy coal, two places to buy lumber, and
certainly more than one elevator. Often times, one of the two was a
Co-op, which didn't have to compete on price, since they offered
special credit terms to their members that the "public" merchants
couldn't match. So, you could get gasoline at the oil dealer, or at
the Co-op, coal at the coal dealer, or at the Co-op, some limited
lumber yard supplies at the Co-op, and well-to-do farmers sold their
crop to the public elevator, while everyone else sold theirs through
the Co-op.

Dennis

Re: Multi-fuel farm tractors.

Gene Green <bierglaeser@...>
 

My father used to tell about being hired to help unload and assemble
box car loads of farm machinery (no tractors, though) consigned to
Clyde Stonebreaker (sic?) in Chapin, Iowa. If "Stoney" had a name for
his dealership, I never heard of it. Point of this story is that, at
least between 1930 and 1940, small farm machinery such as plows, disc
and spike harrows, planters and so on was delivered in box cars. Sure
makes it easy to model. But on my model RR flat cars of tractors are a
must. So far I have material for loads of John Deeres, Farmalls and
Massey-Harris 44s.

Gene Green
OitwTtoEP

Re: Multi-fuel farm tractors.

ken_olson54022 <kwolson@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Gene Green" <bierglaeser@...> wrote:
So far I have material for loads of John Deeres, Farmalls and
Massey-Harris 44s.

Who makes a model of the Masseys?????

Ken Olson

Re: 1940s tank car questions

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

You can add to the example list Beaver Falls PA which had both Armour and Cudahy packing houses, in adjacent buildings. Also, curiously, three to four scrap yards at any given time.

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Storzek

. . . the reality of the situation is that most places that were large enough to support one of a type of
merchant normally had two, in competition with each other. . .

Re: Intermountain Erie PS-1 84000

al.kresse
 

Ed,

I looked for the site listing or files on the this subject to no avail.

Has there been anything published about this group of Pullman End-of-Car Cushioned box cars . . . . Pullman advertisements, proto journals, railway age, CBC, etc.?

The C&O equipped theirs with special racks for shipping laminated plate glass. Larger pieces went on flats with special A-frames and aluminum plates to sandwich the glass between.

Al

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...>

On Jul 5, 2008, at 4:06 PM, water.kresse@... wrote:

It would be intersting to find out if all eight of these RRs used the
same Pullman lot number.

Also, were they true P-S 1s in Feb 1954?
Al,
All 100 of the cars with Pullman cushioned underframes were built under
the same lot number, however, there were different letters applied (lot
8160A through H). All of them are listed on the 40' PS-1 roster list on
the STMFC web site.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

Re: B&O boxcar red

rwitt_2000
 

Bruce Smith wrote:

On Fri, July 4, 2008 5:31 pm, rickstern845215 wrote:
I've just completed one of the Sunshine B&O Mansard Roof box cars,
ready to paint it. The instructions say "The paint used on B&O
boxcars
was a bright red, but not as deep in tone as a caboose red. over
time
this red seems to have faded toward a pink".

I'd appreciate suggestions for a Polly Scale paint mix that would
reflect a slightly weathered paint job. This seems to rule out the
typical boxcar red (brownish), though maybe Mineral Red (mixed with
caboose red??) would be OK?


Thanks
Rick
Rick,

As with most issues of color, you need to specify a time frame. When
new,
these cars were a very brown red. I used Poly Scale Roof Brown with a
bit
of Boxcar Red. That might be a bit too brown, but my M-26 in that
color
looks pretty good. Post WWII, the B&Os color became significantly
redder.
On Virtual Modelers the consensus seems to be Boxcar Red pre 1945 adn
Zinc Chromate post 1945.

Regards
Bruce



Rick,

Bruce's suggestions are essentially correct.

If you can find a Red Caboose model of a B&O M-26 ARA boxcar it is very
close to what color was used in the mid to late 1950's. Chris Barkan
worked very closely with Red Caboose to get both the lettering and the
paint colors correct. The pre-WWII boxcar paint colors were a darker
brown.

Post 1960, beyond the time frame for this list, some shops use a paint
color that had a hint of "orange". I never observed a B&O boxcar
weathering to "pink".

Bob Witt
Indianapolis, Indiana