2008 ST. LOUIS RAILROAD PROTOTYPE MODELER’S MEET

The 2008 St. Louis RPM Meet will be held on Friday, 15 August and Saturday, 16 August 2008 at the Gateway Convention Center, One Gateway Center, Collinsville, IL 62234. Hours: 9 AM to 10 PM both days. Collinsville is 12 miles east of metro St. Louis on I-55/70.
 
The heart of this event is your models!  Bring your models, finished or in progress, for display. All scales, gauges and skill levels are welcome. Attendees are encouraged to bring locomotives, rolling stock, structures and any other models pertaining to prototype railroad modeling. There will be no contests or awards. Our purpose is to share information, present your best modeling techniques, and meet your fellow modelers and historians from around the Nation.  35+ 8' x 2-1/2' tables set aside for your models and displays
 
Photos of the 2006 St. Louis RPM Meet can be found at http://www.pbase.com/golden1014/2006_st_louis_rpm_meet
 
In addition to model displays, presentations by nationally-recognized modelers and historians are scheduled. Historical Societies and select vendors will also be in attendance. We have 10,000 fully-carpeted sq. ft. in the professional Gateway Center.  We'll also have over $1500 in high-quality door prizes to present to paying attendees on Saturday afternoon!
 
Hours: 9:00 A.M. to 10:00 P.M both days. Check out our flyer at http://www.railyardmodels.com/images/2008_STL_RPM_Flyer.pdf.  Admission $20.00 on Friday, $15.00 on Saturday and includes a $5.00 off one model coupon from WrightTrak Models.  Vendor set-up at 7:15 AM Friday. Contact John Golden at Golden1014@... or (812) 919-7182 or Dan Kohlberg at paducah@... for more information. This is a not-for-profit event. 

CLINICS
 
Presentations will run from 10 AM to 7:30 PM both days.  We only run one clinic at a time so you won't miss anything!
 
Ed Hawkins - Missouri Pacific AC&F-Built Express Baggage Cars (Saturday Morning)
Nationally-recognized historian and Railroad Prototype Cyclopedia publisher Ed Hawkins describes MP’s fleet from 1914 to the 1960s, plus similar cars built for Frisco, NC&StL, and Wabash.
 
Pete Smith, MMR - Scratchbuilding in Styrene (Friday Afternoon)
Modeling with the Masters Seminar host and Sn3 guru Pete Smith demonstrates his techniques for scratchbuilding with styrene.
 
Frank Angstead - The Intermountain Rwy Co., Past, Present & Future (Saturday Afternoon)
Frank Angstead provides insight on an American model railroad manufacturer, including history, development, tooling, marketing, and much more. This presentation was highly acclaimed at the recent AT&SF HS convention.
 
Mike Moore & Clark Propst - A Tribute to Soph Marty (Friday Night)
Don’t miss this one! Mike and Clark present all-color slides from the great Midwest rail photographer, Soph Marty, in the 1950s and 60s.
 
Tony Sissons - Scratchbuilding Prototype Turnouts (Friday Afternoon)
Internationally-published modeler Tony Sissons describes and identifies turnout components, then guides you step-by-step to building turnouts closer to your chosen prototype.
 
John & Dan Kohlberg - The Illinois Central Gulf Sparta District, 1972-1986 (Saturday Afternoon)
Ride ICG’s ex-GM&O Sparta District in this detailed multi-media presentation. Explore ops, right-of-way, structures and more in great detail, and see the changeover from GM&O to ICG.
 
Mont Switzer - Tools, Tips and Techniques (Saturday Afternoon)
Indiana’s acclaimed scratchbuilder, author and Monon modeler demonstrates what tools to buy, how to use them, and how to make and modify other essential tools for specific uses.
 
Stan Rydarowicz - Modeling Transition-era SFRD Refrigerator Cars in HO (Friday Evening)
Stan demonstrates modeling numerous Santa Fe Refrigerator Division cars using the Intermountain model.
 
Brian McQuitty - Researching Abandoned Lines (Friday Morning)
DT&I modeler Brian McQuitty presents a case history on how to research lines and model lines that have been abandoned, including details on internet and library resources, plus field study.
 
Dave Roeder, MMR - Prototype Modeling (Saturday Morning)
Research, development, era, design and construction of a variety of models in different scales. 
 
Chad Hewitt – Gunderson Intermodal Maxi-I Well Car (Friday Afternoon)
Chad provides an in-depth look at the prototype and modeling of the universal Gunderson Maxi-I articulated 5-unit well car.
 
Backup: John Golden - Seaboard Steam Era Box Cars, 1923-1954
 
SPECIAL EVENT: GATEWAY RAIL SERVICES TOUR
Join us on Thursday at 3:00 PM as we tour vintage passenger cars undergoing restoration at Gateway Rail’s Madison, IL facility. See the Mark Twin Zephyr being refurbished for operation! 30-person limit; contact Dan Kohlberg at paducah@... for reservations.
 
PRE-RPM MEET SOCIAL
By popular demand, we’ll meet at Bandana’s BBQ on 4 Commerce Drive next to the Gateway Center at 6:00 PM on Thursday, August 14th. http://www.bandanasbbq.com/Flash/home.htm
 
VENDORS
No swap meet stuff here--only the best for your prototype models!  65 tables of elite vendors, including Intermountain, Tangent Scale Models, Speedwitch, American Model Builders, WrightTrak, Bob’s Photos, Moloco, Rail Yard Models, Funaro & Camerlengo, Proto:87 Stores, ICG Custom Decals, Badger, Big Four Graphics, SC Model Works, Mountaineer Precision Products, Stan Rydarowicz, Red Board Hobbies, Mike Gruber Photos, Bluford Shops, and more, plus the TRRA, Nickel Plate, MoPac, Wabash, C&NW, Illinois Terminal, Central of Georgia, Penn Central historical societies! 
 
NOT ENOUGH?
Don't forget that St. Louis features some of the best railfanning in the Nation, and is also the home of the John Barriger National Railroad Library (at the University of Missouri, St. Louis http://www.umsl.edu/barriger/) and the National Museum of Transportation http://transportmuseumassociation.org/, as well as the Gateway Arch and numerous other attractions. 
 
See you in St. Louis!

Signed,

John Golden
Dan Kohlberg
John Hitzeman
Lonnie Bathurst


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Alan;

Might one also assume that such packing/blocking/chocking would have

been left in the car when it was unloaded, so presumably it would be a
common sight to see such debris in the bottom of an empty gondola??

Absolutely, and in cases where the blocking was elaborate and re-usable, it
often remained in the gon for re-use, and was sent back empty for that
specific use, otherwise the blocking might end up on a RIP track somewhere,
or often as not, remained in the gon for months and many loads after. Many
of my gons have blocking and strapping remains in them permanently.

Take care,

Elden Gatwood



regards,
Alan,
London, UK


-----Original Message-----
From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: 22 July 2008 11:49



Alan;

They were commonly placed on crosswise 4 by 6's (or similar) so
one could get
cables or chains under the load, and then blocked with stacks of
wood blocks
nailed together in as high a stack as necessary to secure the
load from
lateral or endwise movement. The AAR loading rules go into much
detail on
how to secure each type of load. If the crates were tall, or had
a high
center of gravity, they would put pieces of wood up the ends and
put
diagonals up against them to prevent it from tipping.
Steel-floored gons had
to have cribbing installed since you couldn't nail the blocks to
the floor,
and were much more complicated to secure many loads in. This was
why some
railroads did not have a lot of steel-floored gons, even though
they were
probably more durable. Some shippers insisted on wood floors.

Elden Gatwood

________________________________

On Tuesday, July 22, 2008 I asked:

When crates were loaded into gons, how was the load restrained
from
sliding along or across the gon?? Ropes? Chains? Chocks/blocks??


I've got a couple of gons which I want to load with crates, but
I've yet
to find a pic looking down into one so loaded.

Cheers,
Alan,
London, UK



.

<http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=2554753/grpspId=1705169725/m
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sgId=74405/stime=1216723755/nc1=4430620/nc2=3848627/nc3=4025291>


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Yes they do.  Just send a LSSAE to them and they will send a flyer with a coupon for their box kits and a list of bagged kit specials.
Joe Horter
Charleston, WV

We were referring to commercial shipments [size not weight] on railroad flat car(s) moved on or before Sept 1958.

Al Kresse

Many thanks Elden, just the sort of info I was after.

The pics I've been able to find/see of gons laden with crates tend to be
consist pics or yard-wide shots like
:http://www.steamfreightcars.com/gallery/shot%20of%20mo/shotofmomar03.ht
ml - the group of crate-laden gondolas roughly in the centre of that pic
is what I'm looking to recreate (well.. actually, I'd love to be able to
recreate the whole scene in HO ^_^ ) but obviously my models will be
viewed at a slightly closer distance and I'd like to be able to get the
packing detail right too!

Might one also assume that such packing/blocking/chocking would have
been left in the car when it was unloaded, so presumably it would be a
common sight to see such debris in the bottom of an empty gondola??

regards,
Alan,
London, UK

Frank Valoczy writes:

"2 questions back: 1, does that 'biggest' have to have been something in
the US? 2, does a railway gun count?"

"If the answers are NO and YES respectively... maybe this:

http://railserbia.net/forum/download/file.php?id=10854 - this is a 1/35
model of the monster..."

Actually, this: STMFC rules state:

"The objectives
include the sharing of
information about North American, standard gauge railroad freight cars
including their operation,..."

Subjects other than those of North American railroad frt cars are entirely out of scope. Therefore, discussions associated with
the subject, "Biggest thing ever transported by rail? . . . up to May 1958" that involve non North American railroads are out of scope and are not permitted to be presented on the STMFC.

Thanks
Mike Brock
STMFC Owner

Frank Voloczy asked:
http://galerija.railserbia.net/details.php?image_id=793
<<snip>>
"...I'm wondering if anyone knows of a model that could be used to
model these cars?"

Bruce Smith replied:
"There is an HO scale model of this car produced by Klein Modellbahn
of Austria that might be a starting point for a decently detailed
model."

Here's a direct link to the model:
http://www.kleinmb.at/kmb3609.htm

Another possible approach is the one used by Mark Feddersen as
detailed in "Tank Car Pleasure: Twin dome kit modifications" in the
July 1988 issue of Mainline Modeler. Even though the articles are
twenty years old, the two Feddersen tank car articles (MM October
1985, July 1988) and the one written by Jeff English (MM June 1988)
deserve a second look, as they are especially creative solutions for
building tank car models for prototypes that are not covered by any
kits.


Ben Hom

On Jul 21, 2008, at 11:36 PM, destron@... wrote:

Hopefully this is enough within the scope of this list to be okay... it
*is* steam era, and it *is* railway, and it *is* American... made.

http://galerija.railserbia.net/details.php?image_id=793

On the photo visible in the link above is an American-made tank car that
ended up with the Yugoslavian Railways; the one above was taken in
Belgrade (Serbia) but I've personally seen one in Ljubljana (Slovenia) on
a storage track at the railway museum at Ljubljana-Siska, and what I'm
pretty sure was one of these cars at the Doboj yards in Bosnia.

Technical and other information I can get from the Serbian and Croatian
railway forums, but I'm wondering if anyone knows of a model that could be
used to model these cars?

Thanks.

Frank Valoczy

Frank,

We have talked about these tank cars a number of times here on this list. This is, as you note, a US built tank car. Most likely built for use in WWII. It is s SINGLE compartment tank with 2 domes (note the lack of any rivets for tank bulkheads). Only one dome has a hatch. This construction allowed enough expansion space while maintaining the tighter european clearances.

There is an HO scale model of this car produced by Klein Modellbahn of Austria that might be a starting point for a decently detailed model.
http://www.kleinmb.at/homepage.htm

In our last discussion of this car, it was noted that at least one car was likely used in the US on the C&O however this would be an incredibly rare car on US rails ;^)

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0

Alan;



They were commonly placed on crosswise 4 by 6's (or similar) so one could get
cables or chains under the load, and then blocked with stacks of wood blocks
nailed together in as high a stack as necessary to secure the load from
lateral or endwise movement. The AAR loading rules go into much detail on
how to secure each type of load. If the crates were tall, or had a high
center of gravity, they would put pieces of wood up the ends and put
diagonals up against them to prevent it from tipping. Steel-floored gons had
to have cribbing installed since you couldn't nail the blocks to the floor,
and were much more complicated to secure many loads in. This was why some
railroads did not have a lot of steel-floored gons, even though they were
probably more durable. Some shippers insisted on wood floors.



Elden Gatwood



________________________________

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Monk
Alan
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 5:31 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Biggest thing ever transported by rail? . . . up to May
1958



Hmmm... strictly speaking, it's not a single *load* though.

When broken down into it's constituent parts, it required something like
5 or 6 separate trains to move Dora from place to place (plus a train
for the security battalion, a train for the flak batallion, a train for
the engineers....)

When set up in the firing location, it sat on a pair of curved parallel
tracks and was moved up and down by a pair of specialist low-geared
diesel locos.

I am tempted by the 1:35 kit though... and I've seen a website for a
scratchbuilt one-SIXTH scale model too.

(IMHO largest 'rail mounted' load would be a complete Saturn V on the
'railroad' linking the VAB and the pad ^_^ )


Onto more list-relevant matters :)

When crates were loaded into gons, how was the load restrained from
sliding along or across the gon?? Ropes? Chains? Chocks/blocks??

I've got a couple of gons which I want to load with crates, but I've yet
to find a pic looking down into one so loaded.

Cheers,
Alan,
London, UK

Hmmm... strictly speaking, it's not a single *load* though.

When broken down into it's constituent parts, it required something like
5 or 6 separate trains to move Dora from place to place (plus a train
for the security battalion, a train for the flak batallion, a train for
the engineers....)

When set up in the firing location, it sat on a pair of curved parallel
tracks and was moved up and down by a pair of specialist low-geared
diesel locos.

I am tempted by the 1:35 kit though... and I've seen a website for a
scratchbuilt one-SIXTH scale model too.

(IMHO largest 'rail mounted' load would be a complete Saturn V on the
'railroad' linking the VAB and the pad ^_^ )


Onto more list-relevant matters :)

When crates were loaded into gons, how was the load restrained from
sliding along or across the gon?? Ropes? Chains? Chocks/blocks??

I've got a couple of gons which I want to load with crates, but I've yet
to find a pic looking down into one so loaded.

Cheers,
Alan,
London, UK

Sorry Guys,

This was to be off list and I forgot to put Brian's email address in the address line.

Regards,

Tom Olsen
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479

Hi Brian,

Please send me a copy of the flyer for the new Buckeye truck so that I can make a decision as to whether I need it and if so how many.

Best Regards,

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@...

Hopefully this is enough within the scope of this list to be okay... it
*is* steam era, and it *is* railway, and it *is* American... made.

http://galerija.railserbia.net/details.php?image_id=793

On the photo visible in the link above is an American-made tank car that
ended up with the Yugoslavian Railways; the one above was taken in
Belgrade (Serbia) but I've personally seen one in Ljubljana (Slovenia) on
a storage track at the railway museum at Ljubljana-Siska, and what I'm
pretty sure was one of these cars at the Doboj yards in Bosnia.

Technical and other information I can get from the Serbian and Croatian
railway forums, but I'm wondering if anyone knows of a model that could be
used to model these cars?

Thanks.

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC

-----
http://hydrorail.hostwq.net/index.html - Rails along the Fraser
http://hydrorail.rrpicturearchives.net/ - Rail Photos

2 questions back: 1, does that 'biggest' have to have been something in
the US? 2, does a railway gun count?

If the answers are NO and YES respectively... maybe this:

http://railserbia.net/forum/download/file.php?id=10854 - this is a 1/35
model of the monster...

http://railserbia.net/forum/download/file.php?id=10845 - a ww2 era photo
of the prototype...

http://railserbia.net/forum/download/file.php?id=10849&t=1 - a shell for
the thing, next to a T-34 tank...

Crazy Russians... :D

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC

Folks,

This is a loaded question. It is is relation to a C&O Chessie NEWS
article from May 30, 1958. It deals with a very large atomic reactor
movement via river barge up the Tennessee River to the C&O at Muncie,
Indiana, up to Grand Rapids, Michigan, and finally over to the Enrico
Fermi plant site 30 miles south of Detroit. Biggest appears to be
defined as a "height [22'above top of rails]and width [14' 6 1/2"]
combo" definition. We are NOT talking about long Butane Tanks that are
almost three flat cars long. The weight was only 91 tons.

Do you have one bigger than the C&O's PR guy's for this time
frame? . . . if so, please related. There were water turbine wheel
assemblies that appeared to have gone down between the rails in special
to meet height requirements.

I'm leaving this question and running off on vacation for some time, so
no real rush.

Thanks,

Al Kresse


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




!DSPAM:1291,48852d62227567810472257!

-----
http://hydrorail.hostwq.net/index.html - Rails along the Fraser
http://hydrorail.rrpicturearchives.net/ - Rail Photos

In the far distant past ( about 1953, 54) I worked a couple of summers in a packing house (pears, not citrus) and helped unload some carloads of box shook. The box cars were loaded to the top of the doors and tight up against the doors. As I recall it was quite hard to get the doors open because the shook was so tight against the doors. The box making machines were in the basement and the shook was moved to the basement down a chute.

Lee Thwaits

Folks,

This is a loaded question. It is is relation to a C&O Chessie NEWS
article from May 30, 1958. It deals with a very large atomic reactor
movement via river barge up the Tennessee River to the C&O at Muncie,
Indiana, up to Grand Rapids, Michigan, and finally over to the Enrico
Fermi plant site 30 miles south of Detroit. Biggest appears to be
defined as a "height [22'above top of rails]and width [14' 6 1/2"]
combo" definition. We are NOT talking about long Butane Tanks that are
almost three flat cars long. The weight was only 91 tons.

Do you have one bigger than the C&O's PR guy's for this time
frame? . . . if so, please related. There were water turbine wheel
assemblies that appeared to have gone down between the rails in special
to meet height requirements.

I'm leaving this question and running off on vacation for some time, so
no real rush.

Thanks,

Al Kresse

Brian,
I just replaced my worn out Badger unit from many years ago with a
Paasche unit.
http://www.paascheairbrush.com/booths_hssb.html
I'm very pleased with the results. I've been using it now for about 4
weeks and am wishing I'd done this years ago. The exhaust motor is
quite powerful, yet reasonably quiet.
I purchased the unit through this guy,
http://airbrush-outlet.stores.yahoo.net/index.html
Good prices and quick delivery. Buy extra filters while you're at it.
Pierre Oliver

Armand,

I don't know why, but I'm pretty computer ignorant. If you give me a mailing address, I'll snail-mail it to you.

Brian
Tahoe Model Works

I am in the market for a paint booth for my airbrushing endeavors. I'm
looking for any recommendations and pointers before I buy one.
Thanks.
Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

Richard-
As the thread wandered from the specific Lima N Scale car, I thought I would add some information about the nearest prototype to
the Lima car. I am not defending a car that has been resized to fit a common underframe (in fact, in my role as a consultant have
recommended to Hornby that none of the Lima freight cars are worth refurbishing except as mold bases for new inserts).
The SM-19Cs were an extension of the SM-19A (composite ends) and SM-19B (improved Dreadnaught ends) classes which were 40 ft cars
.... and, while technically beyond the dates of this list, of some interest in that the cars were built as an extension of steam era car types so
late in the game and were constructed as 50 footers with only a change in subclass and not class as would be expected.
Charlie Vlk