Date   

WP gon question

Jason Hill
 

Greetings group,
I have a couple of WP Proto 53' gonds in NEW 6-49 factory paint job.
They have a orange triangle on the upper left corner of the side. I
assume that this was to denote some assigned or otherwise special
service. If so, what service?
Thanks in advance,
Jason Hill

Modeling Tehachapi Pass in 1952
La Mesa Club, San Diego, CA


"Perfection" hand brake

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Does anyone know the company which made the "Perfection" lever hand brake (early part of the 20th century). I can't find it in any Cycs available to me. TIA.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: I love this photo!

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Bruce Smith wrote:
Remember that it wasn't that many years ago that folks on this list were criticizing the narrow gaugers for their "cliche" of too much weathering.
I don't think it was just "too much weathering," Bruce, but also their tendency to model everything, structures, locomotives and cars, as though it was in a state likely to fall apart the next day. Somehow, the decrepit state of NG railroads when photographed in their very last days (or even after abandonment) became the "standard modeling" method for many NG modelers, even when supposedly depicting earlier periods. The Narrow Gauge & Shortline Gazette became notorious for glorifying such modeling.
But your main point is important: we should all have a WIDE VARIATION of weathering on our freight cars. I do realize, though, from visiting many, many layouts over the years: most modelers have a certain range of "dirt" they are comfortable with, and so fail to have that WIDE VARIATION we see in many prototype photos.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Location of this scene? - CORRECTING MYSELF.

Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
 

Now I see where I mislead myself. It's those two buildings and the railing on the bridge. That railing looks the same as the one on the bridge next to the CNJ terminal. But I should have noticed the short span at the south end of the Third Avenue bridge.

Looking more closely at the photo and measuring the two buildings, I see that the proportions are about right. The roof of the Empire State Bldg was at 1250 ft. and the chrysler Bldg about 1000 ft. That corresponds with the roughly 5:4 ration of the heights of the buildings in the photo. Alos looking at a photo that shows both I can see that the proprotion of their widths is correct. Looking at an aerial photo take while NYC's new Harlem River bridge was under construction shows that the photo must have been taken from the old bridge, possibly from an open vestibule window of an MU car.

That changes the time frame. It had to be before the new NYC bridge was finished IN 1954/55 and after the date of the automobile shown in the photo.




Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478


Blue Flagging

Dave Nelson
 

A good example here: http://www.shorpy.com/node/3350 from a Delano photo in
Chicago, 1943. V isible in the so called "original" size.

Dave Nelson


Re: I love this photo!

Bruce Smith
 

Steve Lucas wrote:
Yet there is quite a variance in car colour, and the PRR would
certianly have painted them all with "PRR STANDARD" paint.
This shows why I don't get too hung up on paint matching--the
prototype didn't.
And Tony replied:
Steve, I don't think your conclusion is logical. Nothing I can see
in the image contradicts the idea that every car was ORIGINALLY painted
the identical color, but at different times, and has encountered
different kinds and amounts of weathering.
I agree! The PRR was fairly fastidious about paint color consistency, as were most roads. Those cars were all painted with regulation FCC, and all looked pretty much the same coming out of the paint shop. It is their life experiences that now show as differences in color. My approach to weathering models is to try to mimic this. A car painted gritty grey and then decaled does not look at all the same as a car painted FCC (Freight Car Color -PRR) decaled and then weathered to a gritty grey. Inevitably on the latter there are still spots of FCC hiding in various nooks and cranies that, just like this prototype photo, tell you that the car was originally painted FCC and of course, the effect on the lettering is critical as well.

And the glimpse of interior color and weathering variations is
perhaps more interesting than the OUTSIDES of the cars.
Of course, Schuyler's point is relevant too. Few modelers of PRR
or any road have model cars with this range of exterior color. After
all, they "wouldn't look right."
Remember that it wasn't that many years ago that folks on this list were criticizing the narrow gaugers for their "cliche" of too much weathering. I think in the past few years we've come to realize that, especially during WWII (the photo referenced was 1943), freight cars were in general pretty darn dirty! Of course, the cliche still exists, and portraying the true range of weathering, rather than just one extreme, is one area that will inevitably enhance realism.

Now to go make some PFE Reefers dirty <VBG>
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
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| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


ADMIN!!: Re: Re: L&N stockcars

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Ed Mines writes:

"Exactly right Bill and John LaRue also identified him off line. Ameling
requisitioned about a dozen steam era stock car negatives from me.

My recollection is that one of the L&N stock cars had a pratt truss and
the other was either similar to NYC stock cars with outside wooden
braces or the St. Louis & Iron Mountain stock car made by Ambroid.

So you can track this SOB down for the 2 L&N stock car prints. I'm
watching him!"

The STMFC is NOT the forum nor will it become the forum to make personal attacks on anyone, deserved or not...member or not. The rules have now been altered somewhat to reflect this. Note the long time STMFC rule:

"ALL SUBJECTS OTHER THAN THOSE DIRECTLY ASSOCIATED WITH STEAM ERA FREIGHT
CARS ARE PROHIBITED FROM MEMBER MESSAGES. Thus, all
admin, security, or "policing" functions will be conducted only by myself or my representatives." To that is now added:

"Members are expected to conduct themselves in a
gentlemanly manner. Personal attacks on anyone including non members is not
permitted."

Thus, the above message is clearly out of scope and violates the rules. In addition, this thread is now terminated with emphasis. Translated...that means the Moderate Jail awaits violaters. I would suggest that members, prior to submitting a message, consider whether or not it concerns a frt car and its associated approved subjects. If it violates other rules...as mentioned above...do NOT send it.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


Re: N&W H2 IC and WAB

Chet French <cfrench@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Charlie Vlk" <cvlk@...> wrote:

I just arrived at the Wabash number series by re-checking the N&W
Coal Cars book.... it doesn't give a number range for the 38000
series Wabash cars
but states that the N&W got them back when the Wabash was merged
and they went into the 3XXXXX series by adding 300000 to the Wabash
numbers.
The OER for 1965 shows the series to be 338000 to 338358 which
accounts for the 359 cars. I know that this puts them outside of
consideration for this
list, but I wasn't sure of that when I started tracking down the
history of these steam era car leases and sales.
This proves there is more than one way to skin a cat.... but I am
still looking for the IC numbers.... apparently they were H2s and
did not get new numbers
as the series is the same as they carried on the N&W. They might
show up in a footnote under N&W rather than IC as being leased in
1946-47-48.
BTW, there is mention in the N&W Coal Cars book of a potential
lease of cars to the IC but the book states it did not happen... and
we have photographic
evidence that at least one car was lettered for IC.

Charlie,

We are sneaking past the end of the STMFC world to mention the Wabash
cars as they were acquired from the N&W in late 1962 or early 1963.
They were numbered 38000 - 38358 and show being built in 1941 and 42
by Bethlehem Steel and Virginia Bridge.

The IC received their cars from the N&W by at least early 1945, as
both photos I have were taken during late winter/early spring
of 1945. A Jan. 1946 IC equipment book shows 698 cars numbered in
the 78000 - 78699 series. It also states that the average age of the
cars was 24 years. The cars were probably gone by the end of 1947,
as the 78000 block of numbers was assigned to a group of almost 4000,
41' hopper cars that the IC converted from gondolas from 1945 through
1947.

Chet French
Dixon, IL


Re: L&N stockcars

lnbill <bwelch@...>
 

This sounds like Howard Ameling. He is retired and living in
Florida. I will see if I can find his address. I know he has given
his negative collection to the NKP Society Archive housed at
Cleveland St. Univ.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., "ed_mines" <ed_mines@...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., "dssa1051" <dssa1051@> wrote:
Does anyone have photos, diagrams or other info on L&N stock
cars?

Years ago I had negatives of 2 L&N steam era stock cars. I sent
them to
a man in Ohio to get them printed and he refused to return them.

I can't remember the guys name but it wasn't Paul Prescott and it
wasn't big 4. Maybe someone on the list knows him. He sent out
very big
computer printouts of negatives 20 years ago. He had a vast
collection
of negatives but many of them (most!) were less then best quality.
He'd
worked for the post office and spent the winter in Florida.

Ed


Re: I love this photo!

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Steve Lucas wrote:
Yet there is quite a variance in car colour, and the PRR would certianly have painted them all with "PRR STANDARD" paint.
This shows why I don't get too hung up on paint matching--the prototype didn't.
Steve, I don't think your conclusion is logical. Nothing I can see in the image contradicts the idea that every car was ORIGINALLY painted the identical color, but at different times, and has encountered different kinds and amounts of weathering.
And the glimpse of interior color and weathering variations is perhaps more interesting than the OUTSIDES of the cars.
Of course, Schuyler's point is relevant too. Few modelers of PRR or any road have model cars with this range of exterior color. After all, they "wouldn't look right."

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: I love this photo!

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
Further to your point, Steve, layouts which have all the cars painted the "right color" are
basically not credible, and lack of weathering, even for "new this year" cars isn't realistic.
But, but, Schuyler, all those modelers whose layouts are covered in cars with "brand new" paint can't be wrong, can they? <g>

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Location of this scene?

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Malcolm Laughlin wrote:
The Empire State Building was a half mile south of the Chrysler Building.
Probably still is. <g>

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


ADMIN: BEDT terminated

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Discussions about BEDT, unless referring to frt cars there, is out of scope and, therefore, the thread is terminated.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


Re: I love this photo!

Schuyler Larrabee
 

This is NOT to get a colour discussion going. But have a look at this
photo.

http://www.shorpy.com/node/2799?size=_original <http://www.shorpy.com/node/2799?size=_original>

Every car in this photo (from a Kodachrome slide, and Kodachrome being
well-known for its colour stability over time) looks like it belongs to
the PRR, "The Standard Railroad of the World".

Yet there is quite a variance in car colour, and the PRR would
certianly have painted them all with "PRR STANDARD" paint.

This shows why I don't get too hung up on paint matching--the prototype
didn't.

Steve Lucas.
Further to your point, Steve, layouts which have all the cars painted the "right color" are
basically not credible, and lack of weathering, even for "new this year" cars isn't realistic. A
few years ago (um, well. . .~10) I drove past a brand new box car with a "NEW date the same month, a
Pacific NW road's car, so new the paint still smelled of its vehicle. It was spotted at a lumber
yard, and thought "I need to get a picture of that!" So I went back at lunch, and noticed that in
what could not have been more than one trip across the US, it was dusty, spattered with mud, and
since morning, the locals at the yard had used a forklift to open the door, resulting in a six-foot
"scratch" about a quarter-inch deep, which was already showing rust.

SGL


Re: BEDT

Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
 

Good point, Dennis. The BEDT was an exception to many rules, including some work rules. Even though it moved railcars, BEDT was not a formal railroad but a terminal. It got away with running steam into the 1960s regardless of 1920's smoke abatement laws with which the railroad companies had to comply.
============

Not so. BEDT was a common carrier by railroad under the IC Act and subject to all ICC regulation.

I don't know of a 20's smoke abatement law but there was amuch earlier law prohibiting steam in tunnels on Manhattan. The LIRR ran steam out of Long Island City up to the 50's and it's engine house at Jamaica was also in New York City.


Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478


Re: Location of this scene?

Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
 

The Chrysler Building at 42nd Street is on Lexington Ave., the street that the camera is looking straight down. The Empire State Building at 34th St. is on 5th Ave to the west, visible near the Borden's sign.
============

That doesn't compute. The building at the end of the long avenue is oviously much farther away from the camera. The Empire State Building was a half mile south of the Chrysler Building.


Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478


I love this photo!

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

This is NOT to get a colour discussion going. But have a look at this
photo.

http://www.shorpy.com/node/2799?size=_original

Every car in this photo (from a Kodachrome slide, and Kodachrome being
well-known for its colour stability over time) looks like it belongs to
the PRR, "The Standard Railroad of the World".

Yet there is quite a variance in car colour, and the PRR would
certianly have painted them all with "PRR STANDARD" paint.

This shows why I don't get too hung up on paint matching--the prototype
didn't.

Steve Lucas.


Re: Modeling aluminum sheathing on boxcars

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

Paint them with (I believe) Model master metalic paints. The kind you
buff to make shinning. They make several kinds of metals and they work
great.
Clark Propst


BEDT

ed_mines
 

BEDT 0-6-0T w IC boxcar
Brooklyn Eastern District Terminal


Re: Location of this scene -- Bronx, N.Y.

rwitt_2000
 

Malcolm Laughlin wrote:

<snip>


I was rather puzzled this afternnon by that Bronx Terminal photo.
This evening I realized that it is a photo of a model cleverly
superimposed on a real background photo. If you study maps of the area,
you will see that the round freight house was not adjacent to the
bridge. It was actually to the left of the Blue Ridge coal tower.

As for date of the photo, my best guess is late 50's. It can't be
ebfore 1955 when the Third Avenue el was dismantled. The car in the
photo is late 40's. The truck isn't likely to have been around in the
60's. It has to be before 1961 when the Chase Manhattan Building, not
in the photograph, was completed. It was next to 60 Wall Tower. So
that makes the date between late '55 and early '61.
Malcolm,

This is interesting as the website author, Tim Warris, states this about
the photo "" This is a very rare shot showing the entire terminal. This
image appeared in Michael Krieger's book "Where Rails Meet the
Sea", which I highly recommend to anyone with an interest in
railroad/water transportation.
Taken in 1944, this image shows the round freight house, yard, and car
float attached to the apron. In the background can be seen the Willis
Avenue and the Tribourough Bridges."

I don't have that book to verify the author's statement.

Yes, he apparently is building both an HO and N scale layout of the
terminal.

Bob Witt

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