In going through Colorado & Southern records at the Colorado RR Museum I discovered that in August 1911 the Fort Pitt Bridge Company shipped the parts for the C&S bridge over the UP at Cheyenne on/in the following cars:
PRR 277392
PRR 277984
PRR 278233
PRR 279089
PRR 279396
PRR 279884
PRR 337304
Penna. Lines 822568
Penna. Lines 856634
Penna. Lines 859186

The bridge is a 126-foot-long through truss.? Some of the parts were (and still are) over 45 feet long.? On the other hand, some of the parts were kegs of rivets.? My question is, what kinds of cars were these?? I'd like to correlate them with the PRR equipment diagrams, but they don't seem to carry number series on them (the diagrams).? I'd also like to try to locate photos of cars in the appropriate number series.


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

Just to add one more point; Berwind's Pennsylvania (BWCX) coal assets during
your period of interest were primarily bituminous, and therefore, mostly used
as either met coal or in power plants/steam plants, foundries and such, not
for household use. That may be why you saw them in small groups more often
than as singles. You could reflect this in where you sent the car, on your
layout, as a single car moving bituminous to a small foundry, perhaps, as a
nice little operational option, if you are into that.



Elden Gatwood



________________________________

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
Smith
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 12:04 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Berwind Coal




On Aug 1, 2008, at 9:42 AM, Justin Kahn wrote:

Having bought a finished brass hopper from another modeler (and
hoping not to have to strip a good paint job), I realized I knew
very little about the Berwind operation. Was production sold to
retail outlets (i.e., local coal dealers) or did it all go to
industrial consumers? In other words, would a Berwind hopper show
up in a way-freight or on a shortline?

Jace,

Are the reporting marks on the model BWCX or NRBX? The former were
found over most of the Northeast, the latter were almost exclusively
found on the C&O in tidewater coal traffic, as discussed back in 2005
on this list.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2
<http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2>

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
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--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Charlie Duckworth" <trduck@...> wrote:

Undec IMWX 1937 boxcar.

Gene can step in anytime here, but for my limited knowledge on these
repaints most of those cars repainted were from the 53000 series with
Youngstown doors. I've only ever seen a few poor photocopies of these
cars. They weathered to a pea green (At least in the photos)some? had
black ends, don't know about the roofs. I have a good slide of a
freshly repaired and repainted 1000 series aluminum car in green
paint. It is the darker green with black ends and roof. The Peoria
Gateway slogan was also at more of a till on the repaints.
Hope this is of some help?
Clark Propst

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "drgwrail" <drgwrail@...> wrote:

Really can't recall doing the plans mentioned....but I probably did.

It had to have been done from drawings or data supplied by Martin.

Chuck Yungkurth
Boulder CO

The biggest problem with the drawings of the ACY 3000 series cars is
that they are not very typical of the cars in the Mather fleet. The
underframes and details are likely the same, as Mather was very set in
the way they did some things, and the end is similar, but the side
frame is weird and the cars lack the distinctive "Mather Patent" roof,
or it has been covered over with welded on plates. Go here for a photo
of survivors:

http://www.midcontinent.org/collectn/woodfrt/acy3011.html

I don't think the three door hangers was typical of the rest of the
fleet, either.

Dennis

Greetings,

I pass along the below information by request...


Louie B. Hydrick


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--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "rockroll50401" <cepropst@...> wrote:

Charlie, What type of box car are you using?
Clark Propst

Undec IMWX 1937 boxcar.

On Aug 1, 2008, at 9:42 AM, Justin Kahn wrote:

Having bought a finished brass hopper from another modeler (and hoping not to have to strip a good paint job), I realized I knew very little about the Berwind operation. Was production sold to retail outlets (i.e., local coal dealers) or did it all go to industrial consumers? In other words, would a Berwind hopper show up in a way-freight or on a shortline?

Jace,

Are the reporting marks on the model BWCX or NRBX? The former were found over most of the Northeast, the latter were almost exclusively found on the C&O in tidewater coal traffic, as discussed back in 2005 on this list.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0

I have the following Sunshine kits for sale:

#15.1 Morrell Mather 42' Reefer, Steel Ends Banner Herald

#15.3 Armour 42' Mather Reefer with Improved D'naught Ends

#31.10 Rock Island 1942 Design Boxcar Express Gold, Red Lettering

Asking $40.00 each plus shipping. US only.
If interested, please contact me off-list at
b.leppert@att.net

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV

Jace Kahn asked:
"Having bought a finished brass hopper from another modeler (and
hoping not to have to strip a good paint job), I realized I knew very
little about the Berwind operation."

Jace, recommend you read Richard Burg's "The Berwind Hopper Cars"
from the October 1986 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman for an
overview.


"Was production sold to retail outlets (i.e., local coal dealers) or
did it all go to industrial consumers? In other words, would a
Berwind hopper show up in a way-freight or on a shortline?"

Aremand Premo replied:
"Berwind cars frequently showed up on the Rutland in Alburgh, Vt in
unusually large numbers. They were interchanged with the Central
Vermont and returned as empties usually within a week. I am still
trying to find out where they went after the CV."

I'll take Armand's word for it, as review of some of his Alburgh
sheets don't show "unusually large numbers". The data points that I
do have show four loaded cars at Alburgh on May 19, 1947:

BWCX 1801 (Arrived May 26, 1947)
BWCX 1870 (Arrived May 24, 1947)
BWCX 3602 (Arrived May 24, 1947)
BWCX 3809 (Arrived May 24, 1947)

Conversely, single empty cars appeared in Train 9 on the following
dates:
BWCX 1806 November 21, 1950
BWCX 3531 July 17, 1950
BWCX 3702 July 16, 1950
BWCX 4158 November 14, 1950
BWCX 4381 January 27, 1949
BWCX 4949 July 11, 1950

As Armand noted, we really have to figure out who the customers were
to make sense of this pattern, but it does support the occasional car
in a train.

(One final note: the PRR eventually acquired the Berwind fleet and
ran them under "BWC" reporting marks, but this happened after the
time period covered by this list.)


Ben Hom

Berwind cars frequently showed up on the Rutland in Alburgh ,Vt in unusually large numbers.They were interchanged with the Central Vermont and returned as empties usually within a week.I am still trying to find out where they went after the CV .A.Premo

I posted on this subject in messages 36723 and 41497. There are also
photos in the STMFPH group (Steam Era Freight Cars Group Photos)
labeled "Side-Grabs I" and "Side-Grabs II". These links below might work:

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/8CSTSITaxxbW2bzHbf0gSGjd296ovvfQdO0gNWUsqiDY5hFTk4bK1ELx60oVp-OmdyGThgwLb2ZcfFOVYGiW1pmIr9JuX4dgQQ/Side-Grabs-I.jpg

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/8CSTSCx14vPW2bzH9UHWU_V_czKKB85qZYtV-MSDUT0FBcEMmHB84RErr0MvKxIYnwV2DHOfAZvxPzX74RQ5B7Mwi7q3Gvr0lw/Side-Grabs-II.jpg

It looks like to me that a piece of "Zee-Bar" stock, tapered, is used
for the bracket, with a straight rod used for the grab.

Charles Harmantas

Really can't recall doing the plans mentioned....but I probably did.

It had to have been done from drawings or data supplied by Martin.

Chuck Yungkurth
Boulder CO



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "al_brown03" <abrown@...> wrote:

There's a Martin Lofton article on Mather boxcars in RMC 2/91 pp85-

89,

with drawings by Chuck Yungkurth of an AC&Y 3000-series car: one of

the

taller ones.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Bud Rindfleisch <BlackDiamondRR@>
wrote:

Hi group,
I am looking for scale plans for the 40' Mather patent

boxcar. A

model magazine index search showed that the Mainline Modeler for
November 1986 has an article on them by John Nehrich. I read on

this

list a few times of the sometimes inaccurate plans in MM. Can

anyone

here with access to that issue confirm the presence of drawings

and/or

the accuracy of them?
Thanks,
Bud Rindfleisch

Charlie, What type of box car are you using?
Clark Propst

No doubt, Al. You could probably find Clinchfield hoppers in any of
the major coal road yards and trains. The CRR functioned as a major
bridge route for several different roads as well as having it's own
on-line coal facilities.

George A Walls

I believe I saw a tracks-worth cut of Clinchfield hops in a mid-50s

C&O PR pix of the Kenova Ohio River barge loading facility yard next
to the Traux-? dumper (naturally along with mostly C&O hops).

Al Kresse

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "George A. Walls" <atsf1226@...>
Al,
The Clinchfield sent most of it's Coal south to Spartanburg,SC

where

it interchanged with the SAL and Southern RR's. It also

interchanged

Coal loads with N&W at St. Paul, VA, C&O at Elkhorn City, KY,
Southern at two other points. Johnson City, Tn and Marion, NC. A

lot

of C&O coal moved south from Elkhorn City via Cliinchfield trains.

George A Walls

Where did these 40 ton gons deliver coal to? If up to Lake Erie,

ehich docks?

Al Kresse

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "John Golden" <golden1014@>
Gentlemen,

I'm beginning construction on a Sunshine HO scale Clinchfield 40'

high-

side gondola with round ends. The instructions are pretty weak,

and

I'm

in need of a prototype photo or two to make sure I get things

right. If

anyone has any prototype photos you could send me (or post to the

group

site) I would greatly appreciate it. I'd like to have it

completely

built up by tomorrow night. Thanks very much for whatever help

you

can

provide.

Yours Very Truly,
John

John Golden
Bloomington, IN




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

One must be careful when trying to replicate the M&StL's green. The
original(fresh, clean, unweathered) was green towards the blue end of
the spectrum. Weathered it was anything but green with a hint of blue.

The CNWHS's custom run of 37 AAR box cars was right for a freshly
painted car.

Gene Green

Having bought a finished brass hopper from another modeler (and hoping not to have to strip a good paint job), I realized I knew very little about the Berwind operation. Was production sold to retail outlets (i.e., local coal dealers) or did it all go to industrial consumers? In other words, would a Berwind hopper show up in a way-freight or on a shortline?

Jace Kahn, General Manager
Ceres and Canisteo RR Co.


_________________________________________________________________
Stay in touch when you're away with Windows Live Messenger.
http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_messenger2_072008

Guys,
When we were doing this car for Proto, the drawing below was the best available. As Al alludes to below, there was no standard plan, heights and other details varied.
Larry Grubb

al_brown03 <abrown@fit.edu> wrote:
There's a Martin Lofton article on Mather boxcars in RMC 2/91 pp85-89,
with drawings by Chuck Yungkurth of an AC&Y 3000-series car: one of the
taller ones.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Bud Rindfleisch <BlackDiamondRR@...>
wrote:

Hi group,
I am looking for scale plans for the 40' Mather patent boxcar. A
model magazine index search showed that the Mainline Modeler for
November 1986 has an article on them by John Nehrich. I read on this
list a few times of the sometimes inaccurate plans in MM. Can anyone
here with access to that issue confirm the presence of drawings

and/or

the accuracy of them?
Thanks,
Bud Rindfleisch

Georege,

I believe I saw a tracks-worth cut of Clinchfield hops in a mid-50s C&O PR pix of the Kenova Ohio River barge loading facility yard next to the Traux-? dumper (naturally along with mostly C&O hops).

Al Kresse

On Jul 31, 2008, at 10:16 PM, underthefog wrote:

At the Western Railway Museum, (Rio Vista Junction) we have a PFE R-
30-16 reefer 74583. Tony is aware. (See page 140 of your "orange
bible")

Our records show it as rebuilt in 1941 from R-30-12 20420, and having
a Bettendorf underframe.

Karl,

Thanks! Alas, this car is from the group that was rebuilt with AB brakes, so that number won't work for the current model....

It has suffered some from years of outdoor storage. The lettering is
just about gone, along with the rest of the paint. It is now stored
indoors, which augurs well for its continued survival, but
photography of the underside is all but impossible.

If I can find time this weekend I will visit it with a strong
flashlight and report what I find.

We also have "High Walkway" tank car, Western Pacific 1025, ACF,
1912. I'm not clear on what constitutes a "type 7", but this car had
arch bar trucks, converted to Andrews in 1937. K-1 brakes were
converted to AB in 1947. It served in several company services, the
last of which "bilge water service".

Sounds like it might be an early type 11 car. IIRC, the WP had some of the earliest type 11s, and these were built with high walkways rather than the low running boards that became the standard for this class.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0

Oops! Rivetted to the car side rather than welded!

Staffan Ehnbom