Date   

Seeking ASF A-3 with roller bearings. Object: acquisition

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Richard helped me confirm that the trucks on the ERIE's "PS2*" hoppers, visible here:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie21800b.jpg

Are 70 ton ASF A-3 "Ride Control" with roller bearings.

But he deferred on this question:
B) what model comes closest to that?
Saying:
I'm not much help here, as roller bearing trucks were developed long after the era I model. I
took a quick look on the
internet at Accurail, Atlas, Walthers, etc. and none of them appear to be quite right. You need
to confer with a
modeler
who knows more about RB trucks.
Well, I did the same looking around, but have not found a good candidate either. The Kato ASF A-3
has "solid" bearings, not roller bearing (or at least the ones I have do).

Is there a commercially available ASF A-3 with roller bearings available?

Thanks for any assistance.


SGL

[BTW, the trucks Athearn supplied on these cars, which this list helped me find a couple of weeks
ago, are RB trucks, but are not correct, thus this request.]

* Yes, Ben, I know they're not "real" PS2s.


Re: ADMIN: Re: Kit instructions or lack thereof

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Adam Eyring wrote:
I have an idea. If a manufacturer would like to supply more detailed instructions - they could supply the intructions (especially if color will help) through a Web site . . .
Sunshine? Internet?? Not gonna happen in either of our lifetimes.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: PRR FD2 was Re: Early Schnabel Cars

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim Barney wrote:
As far as the welding comments, I believe the article I'd read said that the Altoona shop forces hadn't done much/any welding on this scale (particularly a single car this big) to date.
And naturally the PRR viewpoint is that if Altoona hasn't done it, it can't have been done much elsewhere <g> -- or probably isn't important anyway <gg>.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Igloo water coolers available in S scale

Jim King
 

My first S scale detail parts, Igloo water coolers, are now available. Go
to this link to see pix of the pilot models …
http://www.smokymountainmodelworks.com/sscaledetailparts.html. To view the
rest of the web site, remove everything after “.com” in your browser and hit
‘enter’.



Note that these things are tiny even in S … about ¼” tall! But because of
the very high accuracy of 3D CAD and rapid prototyping, even the
characteristic “tank bands” on the body are represented, just not well shown
in the photos because they are so small and hand-painted.



Contact me off list to place your order. The next detail parts will be
Southern Ry. trackside signs (whistle post, maintenance limit, yard limit
and 2 mile posts (2-digit and 3-digit targets).



Jim King

Smoky Mountain Model Works, Inc.

www.smokymountainmodelworks.com





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Berwind Hopper cars

drgwrail
 

Those Berwind hoppers seen on New England railroads may well have been
carrying anthracite to small coal dealers for the home ehating trade. I
have seen a color slide of the Susquehanna Coal Co at Glen Lyon PA (on
the PRR) where BWX cars are being loaded with anthracite in August of
1966. Glen Lyon is just south of Nanticoke.

On the slide BWX 2573 can cleary be seen. This was one of the unique
cars owned by Berwind that were rebuilt GLa cars, as I recall. In the
background there at least four Berwind GLa cars.

The Susquehanna Coal Co was orginally controlled by the PRR and was
spun off when the anthracite roads had to divest themselves of mining
interests. It may well be that the Susquehanna Coal Co in 1966 was part
of Berwind.

Chuck Yungkurth
Boulder CO


Constructive comment RE: ADMIN: Re: Kit instructions or lack thereof

Schuyler Larrabee
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Adam & Laura Eyring

I have an idea. If a manufacturer would like to supply more detailed
instructions, but it would mean an extra several pages and thus increased
printing costs - and possibly a larger box size - they could supply the
intructions (especially if color will help) through a Web site for us to
print at will. For those without Internet access, builders could request the
extra instructions by mail for a small fee.

Not sure how many will go this route, but it might be worth it.
AME
An alternative, possibly, might be for someone who's built a "documentation-free" kit could write up
a few notes covering the areas which brought the ?????? balloon over the head, and how it was
resolved. Perhaps even photos? Sketches? This could be a collaborative effort, with additions
from other STMFC members. All posted in the Files area.

I know that the biggest reason this won't happen much is the fear people have of writing. But the
people on this list seldom seem to be at a loss for words . . .

SGL


PRR FD2 was Re: Early Schnabel Cars

tbarney2004
 

--- In STMFC@..., Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:



--- In STMFC@..., "John Thompson" <JThomp1945@> wrote:

Photo (and blowup detail) accompanying "Interview with Claire I.
Clugh", KEYSTONE, Volume 29, Number 2, Summer 1996, Pages 14-15,
PRRT&HS, FD2 #470245 in Apr 1952 (with Mr. Clugh and another in front
for scale - WOW!).
On Aug 6, 2008, at 7:20 AM, tbarney2004 wrote:
The PRR FD2 "Queen Mary" flat car was an all welded, 250T capacity
depressed-center heavy duty flat. Utilized 4, 4 axle trucks with span
bolsters. Trucks were salvaged from scrapped 8 axle "long distance"
steam locomotive tenders (250F classes - nominal 25k gallon water
capy).
Sorry to nitpick but the 250Fxx tender classes generally had 3 axle
trucks (with one exception that I know of). IIRC, the trucks on the
FD2/FW1 were from scrapped T1 duplex locomotive tenders, class
180P84, truck class 4F5T3.

Car was also unique in that the span bolsters had a second
well-type body that could be swapped for the normal depressed center
type car body. The well (class FW2),
Again to nitpick, the well body was class FW1.
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=FW1.gif&fr=cl

AFAIK, has long been scrapped,
but the FD2 itself survives at the Railroader's Memorial Museum in
Altoona, the city where it was originally built. It was advanced for
it's time, being all-welded when most cars (even of similar type) were
riveted construction. I believe the article you reference makes note
of that fact, as well as the huge amounts of material used (car itself
tops just over 500,000lbs empty itself) and the unique challenges
faced by a workforce who had never previously constructed a fully
welded car, especially, of this scale.
I'll agree with the scale issue, but welding had been in use for
freight car construction for over 15 years (e.g. D&H's 1932 AAR
boxcars, built circa 1937). The jigs and oven that were used to
build this car were pretty amazing, and when you consider that it was
a one-of-a-kind, that was a significant expense to go to.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
No worries about the nitpicks, to be honest, I had just woken up and
was still half asleep (didn't even have my glasses on yet) when I
typed that up. I do remember now they were T1 tenders...my bad. As
far as the welding comments, I believe the article I'd read said that
the Altoona shop forces hadn't done much/any welding on this scale
(particularly a single car this big) to date. But alas, I could be
mistaken on that.
Tim Barney


Re: COAL TRAFFIC

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

The coal traffic to Canada was largely locomotive coal originating in
PA for the GTR's and later CN locomotive terminals in eastern and
central Ontario, the GTR becoming part of CN in 1923. A fair amount
of commercial coal was shipped as well. Ted Rafuse's book "Coal to
Canada"

http://www.canrailpub.com/coaltocanada.htm

is about the Ontario Car Ferry Company, a joint venture between the
BR&P and the GTR which became a joint B&O/CN venture. They operated
two car ferries between Genesee Dock (near Rochester, NY) and
Cobourg, Ontario from 1907 to 1950. Many BR&P and B&O cars wound up
in Eastern Ontario from the Ontario #1 and Ontario #2 car ferries.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., "Eric Hansmann" <eric@...> wrote:


Malcolm brings up some interesting information. I grew up in a
neighboring coal field in
Indiana, PA, and discovered the Buffalo Rochester & Pittsburgh
Railroad at an erly age. This
line was originally built by the Rochester & Pittsburgh Coal
Company to move the black diamonds
from the Indiana and Jefferson county coal fields. These are just
west of the Clearfield
district field. The BR&P moved quite a bit of coal north towards
Buffalo, but I think much was
sent to the docks for Canadian export. The BR&P was merged into the
B&O in 1933. That coal
traffic continued into the B&O years, but I do not know when it
tapered off after the steam
era. So while the coal from the B&O may not have been delivered to
the Buffalo mills with
frequency, it was a part of the coal traffic moving through that
city.
.

Eric Hansmann
Morgantown, W. Va.


ADMIN: Re: Kit instructions or lack thereof

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

IMHO, Al Westerfield's kits I recommend to anyone that asks as
the "gold standard" that all freight car resin kits are judged
against. If you have not built a resin freight car kit before, start
with a Westerfield kit.

All resin STMFC kits have their merits. Some require you to have
more prototype knowledge than others, or do research to get that
knowledge. That is part of the fun that one can enjoy in our hobby,
too. Some require tweaking to get the model that you want. Some
manufacturers do not not provide the level of instruction or detail
that Westerfield does; their kits are no less valuable, unless you
have a burning desire to scratchbuild or make resin kits yourself for
every car that you want.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., "Lawrence Rast" <rastlr@...> wrote:

Kurt,

Always watch the adjectives--the rule says "business" "practices."
You'll need to define not only "practice" (very difficult) but
couple
it with "business" (impossible!).

I would suggest that we not make more of this than necessary. I
really like the kits I buy from Westerfield, Sunshine, F&C,
Speedwitch, and others. All have their strengths and their
weaknesses.

Kind of like the posts to this list. All of which I VERY much
APPRECIATE.

Best,
Lawrence Rast


On Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 6:46 PM, Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...> wrote:
A fine point, I guess, but wouldn't criticizing a deliberate
decision by a
manufacturer not to include instructions be tantamount to
criticizing one of
their PRACTICES, and thus forbidden? Likewise, wouldn't
discussions of the
PRACTICE of releasing models in inaccurate paint & lettering
schemes, or the
PRACTICE of not updating molds to add details also be prohibited?
(I have
seen a number of messages complaining about these last two -
phrased
explicitly as a comment on the company's marketing decisions -
pass by
unremarked.)

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Brock

Hmmm. The STMFC is not the place to comment about business
practices of
manufacturers. Note the group rule:

"Criticism of a manufacturer's business
practices is, however, not within the scope of the group."

However, comments...praising or criticizing...about a
manufacturer's product
are entirely in scope. This includes the instructions regarding
building a
product.


Re: PRR FD2 [Was: Early Schnabel Cars]

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Tim Barney wrote:
It was advanced for its time, being all-welded when most cars (even
of similar type) were
riveted construction.
As Bruce Smith observed, this comment about welding is way wrong.
The first extensively welded freight cars were covered hoppers in the
mid-1930s. Because of all the welding done during WW II, it was a
fully accepted construction method after the war. Freight cars,
certainly by 1950, were being extensively welded, INCLUDING flat cars
of several types (though maybe not so much on the PRR). Not to take
anything away from the "Queen Mary," which was quite a project--just
that welding isn't really part of its eminence.

Tony Thompson
Just to pile on a little, the ERIE had one thousand fully welded hoppers built in 1949. 29000-29999
series

SGL


Re: ADMIN: Re: Kit instructions or lack thereof

Adam & Laura Eyring <eyrings06@...>
 

I have an idea. If a manufacturer would like to supply more detailed instructions, but it would mean an extra several pages and thus increased printing costs - and possibly a larger box size - they could supply the intructions (especially if color will help) through a Web site for us to print at will. For those without Internet access, builders could request the extra instructions by mail for a small fee.

Not sure how many will go this route, but it might be worth it.
AME

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kurt Laughlin" <fleeta@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 6:46 PM
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Re: [STMFC] Kit instructions or lack thereof


A fine point, I guess, but wouldn't criticizing a deliberate decision by a
manufacturer not to include instructions be tantamount to criticizing one of
their PRACTICES, and thus forbidden? Likewise, wouldn't discussions of the
PRACTICE of releasing models in inaccurate paint & lettering schemes, or the
PRACTICE of not updating molds to add details also be prohibited? (I have
seen a number of messages complaining about these last two - phrased
explicitly as a comment on the company's marketing decisions - pass by
unremarked.)

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Brock

Hmmm. The STMFC is not the place to comment about business practices of
manufacturers. Note the group rule:

"Criticism of a manufacturer's business
practices is, however, not within the scope of the group."

However, comments...praising or criticizing...about a manufacturer's product
are entirely in scope. This includes the instructions regarding building a
product.



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



Re: ADMIN: Re: Kit instructions or lack thereof

eabracher@...
 

Writing instructions is just as hard as designing and manufacturing the kit.
I have been at for 35+ years and many times I have to remind myself to write
the instructions as if a new modeler was trying to assemble the model.

I forget that newcomers may not know all the steps I had learned over the
years and just assume they know should be the next step.
I am always open to suggestions and included many change slips to go along
with the print shop done instructions.

eric Bracher
Rio Grande models


**************
Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits
in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos.

(http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )


Re: ADMIN: Re: Kit instructions or lack thereof

Lawrence Rast
 

Kurt,

Always watch the adjectives--the rule says "business" "practices."
You'll need to define not only "practice" (very difficult) but couple
it with "business" (impossible!).

I would suggest that we not make more of this than necessary. I
really like the kits I buy from Westerfield, Sunshine, F&C,
Speedwitch, and others. All have their strengths and their
weaknesses.

Kind of like the posts to this list. All of which I VERY much APPRECIATE.

Best,
Lawrence Rast

On Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 6:46 PM, Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...> wrote:
A fine point, I guess, but wouldn't criticizing a deliberate decision by a
manufacturer not to include instructions be tantamount to criticizing one of
their PRACTICES, and thus forbidden? Likewise, wouldn't discussions of the
PRACTICE of releasing models in inaccurate paint & lettering schemes, or the
PRACTICE of not updating molds to add details also be prohibited? (I have
seen a number of messages complaining about these last two - phrased
explicitly as a comment on the company's marketing decisions - pass by
unremarked.)

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Brock

Hmmm. The STMFC is not the place to comment about business practices of
manufacturers. Note the group rule:

"Criticism of a manufacturer's business
practices is, however, not within the scope of the group."

However, comments...praising or criticizing...about a manufacturer's product
are entirely in scope. This includes the instructions regarding building a
product.


Resin kit instructions (was Sunshine MoPac Gondolas 5200-5299)

Dave Pfeiffer
 

I have built a good number of resin kits by several of the manufacturers. I have even been able to assemble an early F&C open hopper! While these kits do not intimidate me, the lack of information as to where some of the parts go frustrates me! Example: "Install cross bearers". OK. At least to me, its not always intuitive as to the exact position of the cross bearers. I don't need text. I need drawings or photos. I'm sure the "patternmaker" has that information. A photo of where the decals go would also be helpful. Al Westerfield is at the head of the class on this. I haven't built my Railyard Models stuff yet.

Dave Pfeiffer


Re: Aluminum-sheated box cars

Jim & Lisa Hayes <jimandlisa97225@...>
 

Mr. Hayes? That was my father. Please call me Jim.

The Sunshine aluminum boxcar kits are 63.1 - 63.5 for RI, Alton, M&St.L,
C&O, NKP. The flyer can be viewed via the Flyers by RR page of my website.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon



_____

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
rockroll50401
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 10:02 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Aluminum-sheated box cars



Sunshine make a model of one style cars...Mt Vernon blt? Maybe
Mr.Hayes has the flyer up on his website?
Clark Propst

_

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.12/1595 - Release Date: 8/6/2008
8:23 AM


Re: ADMIN: Re: Kit instructions or lack thereof

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

A fine point, I guess, but wouldn't criticizing a deliberate decision by a manufacturer not to include instructions be tantamount to criticizing one of their PRACTICES, and thus forbidden? Likewise, wouldn't discussions of the PRACTICE of releasing models in inaccurate paint & lettering schemes, or the PRACTICE of not updating molds to add details also be prohibited? (I have seen a number of messages complaining about these last two - phrased explicitly as a comment on the company's marketing decisions - pass by unremarked.)

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Brock

Hmmm. The STMFC is not the place to comment about business practices of
manufacturers. Note the group rule:

"Criticism of a manufacturer's business
practices is, however, not within the scope of the group."

However, comments...praising or criticizing...about a manufacturer's product
are entirely in scope. This includes the instructions regarding building a
product.


Re: Sunshine MoPac Gondolas 5200-5299

Dennis Williams
 

BOY, do they pile!!!!!!  Dennis

--- On Wed, 8/6/08, charles slater <atsfcondr42@...> wrote:

From: charles slater <atsfcondr42@...>
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Sunshine MoPac Gondolas 5200-5299
To: stmfc@...
Date: Wednesday, August 6, 2008, 11:32 AM







Instruction videos are great, but Al does not make one for each kit produced. He did one which is a general instruction for all kits. Quit complaining and go build those kits that are piling up.
Charlie Slater

To: STMFC@yahoogroups. comFrom: b.hom@worldnet. att.netDate: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 18:11:32 +0000Subject: [STMFC] Re: Sunshine MoPac Gondolas 5200-5299

Charlie Slater wrote:"If detailed instructions are needed for these kits, these kits aretoo difficult for you to build."Guess Al Westerfield wasted his time doing those instructions and instructional videos all these years!Ben Hom

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
Got Game? Win Prizes in the Windows Live Hotmail Mobile Summer Games Trivia Contest
http://www.gowindow slive.com/ summergames? ocid=TXT_ TAGHM

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


ADMIN: Re: Kit instructions or lack thereof

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Charles Slater writes:

"Now you know why Al does not produce anywhere the number of different kits that Martin does. If you want 2 or 3 kits a year we could spend a lot of OUR TIME writing instructions."

Hmmm. The STMFC is not the place to comment about business practices of manufacturers. Note the group rule:

"Criticism of a manufacturer's business
practices is, however, not within the scope of the group."

However, comments...praising or criticizing...about a manufacturer's product are entirely in scope. This includes the instructions regarding building a product. Note my complaint of June 16 regarding a misleading [ to me ] comment in the instructions of a SS kit. The problem is nothing to to get excited about but real nevertheless which resulted in having to disassemble the kit.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


Re: COAL TRAFFIC

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Malcolm Laughlin wrote:
Here's some info gleaned from a C&I historical site . . .

“During the 1930's and 1940's, the C&I had the largest inventory of
rolling stock in the western hemisphere, primarily because of its many
hopper cars.”
Hello? What were they thinking? Maybe cars per mile? Otherwise
it's astoundingly exaggerated.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Early Schnabel Cars

John Thompson
 

Thanks to Larry Kline and all for the very helpful answers!

John Thompson

--- In STMFC@..., Larry Kline <lndkline@...> wrote:

WECX 200 was the first US Schnabel car. It was built in June 1957
for
the Westinghouse Transformer Div. by Greenville Steel Car Co. It
was
built because power transformers grew too large for depressed
center
flatcars as transmission voltages increased. The page in the link
below includes an article from Modern Railroads and an article
from
the Erie RR employee magazine. (Scroll to the bottom) The Erie
magazine article includes several photos of an O scale model.

There are drawings and 2 photos in the 1961 Car Builders Cyc. on
pp
180-181.

There is quite a bit of information on WECX 200 and later
Schnabel
cars at the PRRT&HS archives, including photos of a 1930s German
car.
The Archives are open for research when volunteers are working
there.
See:
http://www.prrths.com/PRR_Research_page_two.htm

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA
Westinghouse employee from 1966 to 1996

Richard Brennan wrote:
WECX 200 photos at:
<http://southern.railfan.net/schnabel/cars/ptdx200/wecx200.html>
The c1957 photo in the middle of the page look like the same
shipment
as in the book.

120941 - 120960 of 195610