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Re: Outlaw date for friction bearings and arch bar trucks

Guy Wilber
 

In a message dated 4/20/02 1:29:28 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
larrybemail@... writes:

<< Can anyone tell me when Arch Bar trucks were outlawed? >>

The ARA's Mechanical Division first voted and approved (upon recommendation
of the Arbitration Committee) in June of 1930 to ban arch bars "on or after
January 1, 1936." Subsequent action and/or extensions occurred after that
date, to and including, the final (July 1, 1940) banning of the arch bar
truck.

The ARA/AAR data that I have compiled regarding the banning date of Arch Bar
trucks does not support any extension past July 1, 1940. A membership vote
on the proposal from the Arbitration committee designating July 1, 1940 as
the FINAL extension was overwhelming: In Favor; 1,838,942 Against; 2,540
Not Voting; 28,823. The ICC's Rep, W. J. Patterson, hailed the vote at the
Annual Mechanical Division meeting in June of 1940, and made no reference to
any planned intervention by the ICC to extend the ban date.

In actuality, the final ban date for use of cars equipped with arch bar
trucks (in interchange) was December 31, 1939 with the period through July 1,
1940 designated as "an ample recovery period" for all cars (equipped with
arch bar trucks) to be returned to owners. No doubt cars were still being
loaded through that time span.

The only change regarding arch bars trucks (I am aware of) that did occur in
1941 was within the Interchange Rules. This change was to clarify the
permissible use of cars equipped with arch bars on home rails and/or within
same terminal switching districts. The side-by-side comparison (within the
letter ballot) of the existing rule vs. the proposed change was presented to
member roads for voting on June 20, 1941. As of that date, Rule 3 contained
the wording; "Trucks, with arch bars prohibited under all cars..." Thus, if
there was any extension into 1941 it ended in advance of the July 1, 1941
date often presented as fact.

I welcome and encourage any documentation that refutes the above information.

Regards,

Guy Wilber
Sparks, Nevada


reefer fan mechanisms

Bill Welch <bwelch@...>
 

I am puzzled about the external evidence of fans on reefers. I some caes they seem to appear on only one side, but this is unclear since we rarely have photos of both sides. Then again early SFRD cars had the external mechanisms on boths ends of the side. I even have the Overland parts to use on an InterMountain kit. Did the external eveidence vary from system to system or perhaps over time?


Re: Outlaw date for friction bearings and arch bar trucks

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

YES, BUT CHRIS CAN'T ANSWER IT HERE! THE OFFICIAL STMFC CUTOFF DATE IS
1960. I SUGGEST YOU CONSULT (1) FREIGHTCARS LIST [OR ARCHIVE] (2) MFCL,
THE MODERN FREIGHT CARS LIST OR (3) FREIGHTCARWORLD, ANOTHER MODERN CAR
LIST.

At 09:06 PM 4/21/02 -0700, you wrote:
Queries Mont Switzer:

.... READ WITH INTEREST THAT TRUCKS DESIGNED FOR SOLID BEARING
JOURNALS CONVERTED TO ROLLER BEARING JOURNALS WERE OUTLAWED IN INTERCHANGE
SERVICE IN 1994. ANY INSIGHT INTO WHY THIS TYPE OF TRUCK/BEARING
ARRANGEMENT WOULD BE OUTLAWED, AND WHY SO CLOSE TO THE OUTLAW DATE OF THE
SOLID BEARING EQUIPPED TRUCKS?
No, I can't account for it. But maybe Chris Barkan can; IIRC, he was
working for the AAR at the time.

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...> *** NEW EMAIL ADDRESS ***
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: IC 30500-31999 questions

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Ed & Richard, thanks for the help. It sounds like my IC kit is
ok as long as I renumber it a little higher ... maybe between
31000-31249, to match all the features of the prototype. From
the evidence it sounds like IC used up the last of the IDE-2
ends and then started using R+3/4 ends.

I do have one photo of an IC box car with an illegible number,
with a straight side sill. Do either of you know which 40 foot
IC box car series came with straight sills? I only know of one
car number -- IC #22318 from series 22000-23534.

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...> *** NEW EMAIL ADDRESS ***
Sterling, Massachusetts


Why clean tank cars?

David Soderblom
 

An obvious question: why were the tank cars cleaned? The need is
obvious if it carries foods or if the commodity is changed, but in most
cases of tank cars used by refineries I would think the car carried the
same thing over and over, so why bother cleaning it?

Dave Soderblom
Baltimore MD


Re: IC 30500-31999 questions

HAWK0621@...
 

In a message dated 4/22/02 12:17:00 AM, rhendrickson@... writes:

I have a good, sharp Paul Dunn photo from the Bob Lorenz collection which
shows IC 30780, built 4-48, with diagonal panel roof, 4-4 ends with short
top rib, and ASF A-3 trucks. The doors are postswar Youngstown 4-5-5.
Richard and Tim,
Based on Richard's reply and the Bob Lorenz photo of IC 30780, here's what I
think happened on this order of cars. Initial cars built in the order came
with 4/4 ends with short top rib and later cars received the R+3/4 IDNE when
Standard Railway Equipment Mfg. Co. changed the design. The IC freight car
diagrams do not help define when the change occurred and they do not make any
distinction about the configuration of the ends. Thus, it appears that some
of the BT models will be incorrect since they do not offer the version of the
4/4 IDNE with short top rib. The photo in the Oct. 1951 Trains showing IC
31448 is conclusive about the R+3/4 IDNE but the build date of the car cannot
be read. Since car builder's did not always build the cars in the numerical
sequence, knowing which cars had 4/4 IDNE and R+3/4 IDNE will probably remain
an unknown until more photos (or production records) can be located.
Ed Hawkins


Re: list member contact

BlackDiamondRR@...
 

Hello, I'm trying to contact Chuck Yungkurth whom I believe is a member of
this list. Chuck, if you read this could you please contact me off list? I'm
interested in obtaining your list of photos and any plans for LV piggyback
flats in the 11,000 series (fishbelly sides) made from gons. Former NYS&W
employee and Binghamton resident, Bud Rindfleisch


informal prototype modelers gathering review

Bill Welch <bwelch@...>
 

Our informal gatheirng of prototype "types" was Saturday and we had about thirteen people and many models. I cannot spell his last name but Mike W. from the Baltimore area did a presentation on brass etching and Randy Anderson did one on reseaching structures that included a mock up of a sand plant he is building for his Huntington & Broadtop layout. John Tiechmoeller (apologies to John for probably butchering the spelling of his last name) brought many models of Pennsy flat cars and Ned Carey had many very fine tank car models. I had a L&N freight train made up of primarily FGEX/WFEX/BREX reefers and another made up of entirely southeastern models. Three or four of us brought photo albums also and there were many casual conversations.

A couple of times we sat in a circle and shared info about our interests and ask questions of each other. (Since it sort of looked like a therapy group, I assured people that they did not have to share their feelings. Ned did however own that he is in recovery and has been Athearn free for four years now. Larry Grubb shared that he not only works for Life-Like but that he is also a modeler, Lehigh Valley 1953 to be exact.)

I was amazed how quickly the time went. People stated showing up about 8:30 AM, although we said we would start at 9 AM and I had to start shooing them away as we neared 4 PM. Only one person south of the DC area came, the rest were from Maryland and Pennsylvania. People came from as far as two hours away. Paul Dolkos, Tom Underwood and I were the only other Virginians

Everyone felt that it was time well spent and that we want to do it again. I offer this to encourage others to think about this kind of unprogrammed gathering. I did the same thing in 1997 when I was living in Pasadena, CA for a year and we all had a great time. I have to believe in any metro area a gathering with similar numbers would be likely.

Larry G. had samples of LL's upcoming releases, including more 8,00 gallon tank cars, the beautiful 0-6-0's, their Proto 1000 DL-109 and the new SW-8's.


Re: C&O 1949 Roster

Bill Welch <bwelch@...>
 

I have had a tour of the factory. You have nothing to lose by asking.

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 4/22/02, at 1:39 AM, Bob & Kelly Crispen wrote:

ian clasper said on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 at 8:55:32 PM:

Westerfield has re-produced the July 1950 ORER as a CD Rom
http://users.multipro.com/westerfield/orer50.htm
Hmmmm. Crossville TN. Close enough for a day trip from north Alabama.
Does anyone know if they allow you to pay them a visit and buy there?
--
Bob Crispen
crispen at hiwaay dot net

I asked my Magic Eight Ball what email program to use.
"OUTLOOK NOT SO GOOD"
Good old Magic Eight Ball! Thanks for the warning.



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Re: C&O 1949 Roster

ian clasper <ianclasper@...>
 

Hi

Both Al and Pat are very busy folk, so visiting may be out of the question,
however they do take phone orders and are very reasonable with shipping.
Check out their website, their phone number and contact details are all
there.

Hope this helps

Ian Clasper

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob & Kelly Crispen" <crispen@...>
To: "ian clasper" <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 11:39 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] C&O 1949 Roster


ian clasper said on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 at 8:55:32 PM:

Westerfield has re-produced the July 1950 ORER as a CD Rom
http://users.multipro.com/westerfield/orer50.htm
Hmmmm. Crossville TN. Close enough for a day trip from north Alabama.
Does anyone know if they allow you to pay them a visit and buy there?
--
Bob Crispen
crispen at hiwaay dot net

I asked my Magic Eight Ball what email program to use.
"OUTLOOK NOT SO GOOD"
Good old Magic Eight Ball! Thanks for the warning.


Re: C&O 1949 Roster

Bob & Kelly Crispen <crispen@...>
 

ian clasper said on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 at 8:55:32 PM:

Westerfield has re-produced the July 1950 ORER as a CD Rom
http://users.multipro.com/westerfield/orer50.htm
Hmmmm. Crossville TN. Close enough for a day trip from north Alabama.
Does anyone know if they allow you to pay them a visit and buy there?
--
Bob Crispen
crispen at hiwaay dot net

I asked my Magic Eight Ball what email program to use.
"OUTLOOK NOT SO GOOD"
Good old Magic Eight Ball! Thanks for the warning.


Re: Equip. Registers Lookup Please

Ian Cranstone
 

Hi Jay:

Anyone with Equipment Registers between January 1954 and January 1961
willing to look up a little info, please contact me off list.
I have a number of issues from this span on my shelf, specifically: 4/54,
10/54, 4/55, 7/55, 10/55, 7/56, 4/57, 10/57, 1/58, 7/58, 10/58, 1/59, 7/59,
10/59, 1/60, 7/60 & 10/60. Let me know what you're looking for and I'll try
to help you out.

Cheers,

--
Ian Cranstone
Kanata, Ontario, Canada
lamontc@...


Re: IC 30500-31999 questions

Richard Hendrickson
 

Ed Hawkins writes, responding to Tim O'Connor's queries:

Photos show that the IC 30500-31999 series box cars built 1948 at their
Centralia shops came with R+3/4 Improved Dreadnaught Ends (IDNE) and diagonal
panel roofs. The cars were being constructed about the time the 4/4 IDNE and
raised panel Murphy roofs were transitioning to R+3/4 IDNE and diagonal panel
roofs but the few photos I've come across thus far indicate that R+3/4 IDNE
and diagonal panel roofs were used. If anyone has a photo to the contrary,
please advise. Of the 1,500 cars built in this order, the first 750 came with
YSD-2 doors and second 750 came with 7-panel Superior doors. Thus, the IC
30612 model should have a Youngstown door. The freight car diagrams state
what types of trucks were used but I'll have to report on this detail later.

Photos of these cars haven't been particularly easy to find. A grainy
broadside builder's photo appears in the 1949/51 Car Builders' Cyc on page
339. From this photo it is virtually impossible to determine what types of
ends and roof the car had. The IC #31920 shown in the new GM&O/IC Color Guide
(page 40) clearly shows a diagonal panel roof. The R+3/4 IDNE and Superior
door is visible on IC #31448 in an overhead photo published on page 22 of the
October 1951 Trains Magazine. I would appreciate hearing from anyone having
photos of cars from this series with a description of the types of roofs and
ends that are visible in the photo.
I have a good, sharp Paul Dunn photo from the Bob Lorenz collection which
shows IC 30780, built 4-48, with diagonal panel roof, 4-4 ends with short
top rib, and ASF A-3 trucks. The doors are postswar Youngstown 4-5-5.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: Outlaw date for friction bearings and arch bar trucks

Richard Hendrickson
 

Queries Mont Switzer:

.... READ WITH INTEREST THAT TRUCKS DESIGNED FOR SOLID BEARING
JOURNALS CONVERTED TO ROLLER BEARING JOURNALS WERE OUTLAWED IN INTERCHANGE
SERVICE IN 1994. ANY INSIGHT INTO WHY THIS TYPE OF TRUCK/BEARING
ARRANGEMENT WOULD BE OUTLAWED, AND WHY SO CLOSE TO THE OUTLAW DATE OF THE
SOLID BEARING EQUIPPED TRUCKS?
No, I can't account for it. But maybe Chris Barkan can; IIRC, he was
working for the AAR at the time.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: Brakes

Richard Hendrickson
 

Clark Probst asks:

Could some one please give me a quick lesson in why the AB brake
system made the K brake obsolete.
While the K Type air brake was generally effective on the relatively light,
short trains that were the norm at the time it was designed, problems
developed as trains grew longer and heavier, and the ARA embarked on a
research project in 1926 which lasted until 1932, included extensive
testing both in laboratories and in service, and led to numerous
refinements. The effect of these was well summarized in the New York Air
Brake Co. literature in the 1931 Car Builders' Cyclopedia (my paraphrase).

1. Fast and positive service application of brakes throughout an entire
train, providing better control of slack action.

2. Fast, uniform release of brakes throughout an entire train, which also
provided better slack control.

3. Faster, more effective application of emergency braking if needed.

From 1933, when AB brakes began to applied on a large scale, until
mid-1953, when all cars in interchange were required to have them, the mix
of AB and K brakes in trains, especially on mountain divisions, was an
engineer's nightmare. The two type of brakes set up at different rates,
with the AB brakes setting up first and the K brakes later, and the time
lag was worse toward the rear end of a long train. As a result, the slack
ran in and out like a yo-yo and couplers and draft gear were subjected to
much abuse. Anone who was around Cajon Pass,Sherman Hill, etc. in those
days will tell you that the right of way was littered with broken coupler
knuckles, coupler shanks, and drawbars. Any hill division hogger who could
control his air and his speed while keeping his train intact was a real
pro, fully entitled to look down his nose at "flatland" enginemen who were
in the habit of setting ten or fifteen pounds of air and then just sitting
there until the train came to a stop.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: Wabash #7131 question

cef39us <cfrench@...>
 

--- In STMFC@y..., Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@a...> wrote:

Among my fairly extensive notes, I have absolutely no data
on Wabash #7131. But that is the number Branchline applied
to a 40 foot 10 panel box car with R+3/4 ends and YSD-2 doors.

Does anyone here have more information on the prototype?
Stuff like correct ends, doors, running boards, hand brakes,
trucks and ladders?

Tim;

Wab 7131 was from the 7000 - 7299 series built from April through
December 1952 at the Wabash Decatur, Ill. shop. 7131 was built in
August. The cars were the last new 40 foot boxcars, with 6 foot
doors, built or purchased by the railroad.

Cars had ten panel sides, diagonal panel roofs, R+3/4 ends with YSD-2
doors, 7 rung ladders, Miner hand brakes, and self-aligning A-3
trucks. My photo of the 7048 appears to have a US Gypsum running
board. They also had the typical Wabash straight sidesill between
the bolsters.

Chet French


Re: Brakes

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

That was quick and easy to understand. Thanks Jack


Jack Wyatt wrote:

<< Could some one please give me a quick lesson in why the AB brake
system made the K brake obsolete.
Thanks,
Clark>>

I haven't seen an answer yet so I'll give it a try. Besides improved
features on quicker sets and releases and better operation in general, I
believe the revolutionary feature was the inclusion of emergency braking.
With the AB air reservoir, you might think you are see only one reservoir,
but they are two. It has a concave plate in the center that divides the
reservoir in two parts, with the emergency side having the greater capacity.

Jack Wyatt


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Re: Boxcar Roof Walks

Richard Hendrickson
 

Kadee running boards are Delrin plastic and are hard to glue.
Shouldn't be a problem with cyanopoxy!!

<vbg>
Unless you live in the frigid northeast or store your models in a freezer.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: CB&Q 50' single door steel build dates

Richard Hendrickson
 

From Ted Culotta:

Can anyone provide an exact build date (month/year)
for a specific CB&Q 50' single door steel box car?

I would most like a date for a car in the series
21000-21299 (I omit 21300-21399 because I don't want
to use Allied FC trucks), but if I cannot get one for
that series, then I will take 22000-22329 or
22330-22499.
21157, built 7-41, National B-1 trucks.


Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: Brakes

C J Wyatt
 

<< Could some one please give me a quick lesson in why the AB brake
system made the K brake obsolete.
Thanks,
Clark>>

I haven't seen an answer yet so I'll give it a try. Besides improved
features on quicker sets and releases and better operation in general, I
believe the revolutionary feature was the inclusion of emergency braking.
With the AB air reservoir, you might think you are see only one reservoir,
but they are two. It has a concave plate in the center that divides the
reservoir in two parts, with the emergency side having the greater capacity.

Jack Wyatt

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