Date   

Re: Freight car distribution

Walter M. Clark
 

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Gene Green, perhaps tongue in cheek, wrote:
All this discussion of freight car distribution has what purpose? A
purpose does not seem self-evident to me.
Is there a model railroad, as opposed to model building, purpose?
Gene, I believe people are interested (perpetually) in knowing
the balance they need in freight car fleets--which I guess could be
called model building--but are also interested in accurate handling of
empty cars as well as of inbound loads from "off the layout."

Wouldn't the area one models and the industries on that model
railroad
play a greater role (than statistics) in determining which cars one
might model?
Of course. If you have a pickle plant on your layout, then
yes,
you should have pickle cars, regardless of their proportion of the
national car fleet. But most layouts model a certain amount of bridge
traffic, which of course isn't local, and moreover inbound loads need
to be in credible cars (car reporting marks). Tim Gilbert showed that
free-running cars, primarily box cars but also flat cars to a fair
extent, ARE in proportion to the national fleet. I would guess this is
true also for gondolas handling merchandise loads, but much less so for
bulk cargo--in the latter case, they are much more like hoppers and are
more nearly distributed by region.
But Gene's point is still vital to keep in mind, and one has
to know how one's prototype worked. SP lumber traffic was extremely
heavily on SP flat cars, because SP maintained a big fleet of those
cars for that traffic. Train photos show very few foreign flat cars
with lumber loads on the SP lines. That's an example of something a
modeler just needs to know.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
And Tony's comment about SP flat cars means those of us who model the
SP pre-World War II are up the creek because there aren't any models
of pre-World War II SP flat cars (in HO scale that I know of, at least).

Time stopped in November 1941, which is my problem regarding SP flat
cars <g>
Walter M. Clark
Pullman, Washington, USA


Re: Handbook of American Railroads

Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

Thanks Larry. Its a few years late in publication from my model era (1946), but I think it would probably be useful to get one at some point.

Rob Kirkham

----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Kline" <lndkline@...>
To: "STMFC list" <STMFC@...>
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 11:55 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Handbook of American Railroads


Rob Kirkham wrote:
A question: what is the Handbook of American Railroads - that's a new
one to me. Is it analogous to the ORER? Published how frequently?

The Handbook of American Railroads, by Robert G. Lewis, 1951, (First
Edition), Simmons-Boardman, New York. There is a short summary
including a map, mileage, revenue, expenditures, traffic and equipment
info. for 127 class one railroads. From the Intro: "This book has been
written to provide a single source of facts and information on each of
the 127 Class I railroads. These railroads comprise 181,311 piles of
road, or about 81 per cent of the total U.S. rail mileage. A
description of each railroad, highlighting information that is
prominent or of unusual interest, is accompanied with maps and
photographs."

http://www.abebooks.com currently lists 5 copies of the 1951 edition
and 2 copies of the 1956 edition.

Simmons-Boardman publishes Railway Age and the Cyclopedias.
http://www.simmonsboardman.com
http://transalert.com/bookstore/Rail/
Simmons-Boardman currently publishes the Encyclopedia of North
American Railroads

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA



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Re: Box car counts by RR - NMRA Charles collection

Tim O'Connor
 

Larry

I suspect Tim would have recommended computing the standard
deviation of this data set, in order to see how closely these
observed differences from the mean values match the expected
standard deviation. One does not "expect" all values in a
sample data set from a large population to match the mean
values, but one does expect that the mean of the deviations
is predictable. If it is, then you can make a case that your
data set is a good representation of a hypothetical sample.
If not, then the data set may be skewed, or your expected
sample may be incorrect (i.e. Tim's theory of distribution
may be incorrect).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_deviation

Tim O'Connor

I just posted a table in the files section file that compares expected
and actual counts of boxcars by railroad in the NMRA Charles
collection. The file name is _Compare box car counts US RRs - Charles
collection.pdf_.

The first two columns in the table list, in descending order, the
number of box cars owned on 12-31-1950 by 71 US railroads. These
numbers are from _The Handbook of American Railroads_.

There are 194 photos of boxcars in the Charles collection. Most of
them were taken in 1946 and 1947 in the greater Harrisburg PA area on
the PRR. The most common photo location is the PRR eastbound receiving
yard in Harrisburg. The third column in the table lists the expected
boxcar counts by railroad for a total of 194 boxcars, based on the
second column. The fourth column lists the actual number of boxcar
photos in the Charles collection.

Given the small size of the sample, I think that these numbers support
Tim Gilbert's hypothesis that the number of boxcars owned by railroad
can be used to predict the expected number of boxcars observed. Other
list members are welcome to draw their own conclusions about this data.

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA


Re: Box car counts by RR - NMRA Charles collection

Dave Nelson
 

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Larry Kline

I just posted a table in the files section file that compares expected and
actual counts of boxcars by railroad in the NMRA Charles collection. The
file name is _Compare box car counts US RRs - Charles collection.pdf_.


Larry, there are a couple of errors in that listing and I think you should
correct them. First, as the images were taken on the PRR you should not
count any PRR cars in the sample. Home Road cars are not what the basic
Distribution Hypothesis is about. Second, I get a lower total even after
that so I think you might have missed something when you tabulated the
numbers.

Dave Nelson


Re: Handbook of American Railroads

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Larry Kline wrote:
These railroads comprise 181,311 piles of road . . .
Man! That's a lot of piles!

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Encyclopedia of North American Railroads - correction

Larry Kline
 

Correction:
Simmons-Boardman currently sells the Encyclopedia of North American Railroads, published by Indiana Univ. Press
http://www.transalert.com/cgi-bin/details.cgi?inv=BKENARR&cat=19
Its available at Amazon at a lower price.

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA


Handbook of American Railroads

Larry Kline
 

Rob Kirkham wrote:
A question: what is the Handbook of American Railroads - that's a new one to me. Is it analogous to the ORER? Published how frequently?

The Handbook of American Railroads, by Robert G. Lewis, 1951, (First Edition), Simmons-Boardman, New York. There is a short summary including a map, mileage, revenue, expenditures, traffic and equipment info. for 127 class one railroads. From the Intro: "This book has been written to provide a single source of facts and information on each of the 127 Class I railroads. These railroads comprise 181,311 piles of road, or about 81 per cent of the total U.S. rail mileage. A description of each railroad, highlighting information that is prominent or of unusual interest, is accompanied with maps and photographs."

http://www.abebooks.com currently lists 5 copies of the 1951 edition and 2 copies of the 1956 edition.

Simmons-Boardman publishes Railway Age and the Cyclopedias.
http://www.simmonsboardman.com
http://transalert.com/bookstore/Rail/
Simmons-Boardman currently publishes the Encyclopedia of North American Railroads

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA


Re: Box car counts by RR - NMRA Charles collection

Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

Thanks Larry! Apart from the PRR, my impression - just scanning through the numbers - is that by incorporating the Canadian numbers (which are obviously underrepresented by fleet size, reflecting the border issues) the deviation between expected and actual in the Charles collection is reduced a little. I suppose one could test for that in Excel, although my first year stats course is more than a 1/4 century ago, so I won't be the one to do it...

A question: what is the Handbook of American Railroads - that's a new one to me. Is it analogous to the ORER? Published how frequently?

Rob Kirkham

----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Kline" <lndkline@...>
To: "STMFC list" <STMFC@...>
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 9:51 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Box car counts by RR - NMRA Charles collection


Rob Kirkham wrote:
Its an interesting document both for how it correlates and how it does
not. I don't suppose you have another version that incorporates the
(controversial?) Canadian railway equipment? I wonder how that would
impact the figures.

There are 4 CP boxcars and 2 CN boxcars in the Charles collection. The
_Handbook of American Railroads_ doesn't include Canadian Railroads. I
added the CN and CP boxcar totals from the April 1951 ORER and revised
the table. Its in the files section with the file name _Compare box
car counts N Amer RRs - Charles collection.pdf_.

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh PA








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Re: Box car counts by RR - NMRA Charles collection

Larry Kline
 

Rob Kirkham wrote:
Its an interesting document both for how it correlates and how it does
not. I don't suppose you have another version that incorporates the
(controversial?) Canadian railway equipment? I wonder how that would
impact the figures.

There are 4 CP boxcars and 2 CN boxcars in the Charles collection. The
_Handbook of American Railroads_ doesn't include Canadian Railroads. I
added the CN and CP boxcar totals from the April 1951 ORER and revised
the table. Its in the files section with the file name _Compare box
car counts N Amer RRs - Charles collection.pdf_.

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh PA


New file uploaded to STMFC

STMFC@...
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the STMFC
group.

File : /Compare box car counts N Amer RRs - Charles collection.pdf
Uploaded by : bowestym <lndkline@...>
Description : Boxcar counts by RR from Handbook of American RRs and CN and CP from the 4-51 ORER compared with the NMRA Charles collection

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/Compare%20box%20car%20counts%20N%20Amer%20RRs%20-%20%20Charles%20%20collection.pdf

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.htmlfiles

Regards,

bowestym <lndkline@...>


Re: Looking for IN THE FIELD pix of C&O 91-ton gons

water.kresse@...
 

Eric,

Thanks. I went through a goodly portion of the images searched under railroad and coal. Mostly 50-ton hops and gons. It would be interesting to know which plants these larger cars were pushed/pulled up to and loaded.

Al Kresse

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Eric Hansmann" <eric@...>
Al Kresse wrote:

I'm looking for pictures of C&O 100000-100999 series high capy gons in
the yards, in the coal fields, or at the coal docks taken between 1921
and 1946. I have builders and tech journal prints plus Raceland AMC
May 1931 repaint photos already.

============================

Al,

I did a quick scan at the West Virginia & Regional history on-line collection here:
http://images.lib.wvu.edu/cgi/i/image/image-idx?page=index;c=wvcp;g=wvcart

I only searched using 'Tipple' as a parameter. I noted C&O gons in several images, but none
from the series you requested. I only did a quick check. You may want to peruse this archive
with more diligence.

Eric Hansmann
Morgantown, W. Va.


Re: Box car counts by RR - NMRA Charles collection

Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

Hi Larry,

Its an interesting document both for how it correlates and how it does not. I don't suppose you have another version that incorporates the (controversial?) Canadian railway equipment? I wonder how that would impact the figures.

Rob Kirkham

----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Kline" <lndkline@...>
To: "STMFC list" <STMFC@...>
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 7:44 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Box car counts by RR - NMRA Charles collection


I just posted a table in the files section file that compares expected
and actual counts of boxcars by railroad in the NMRA Charles
collection. The file name is _Compare box car counts US RRs - Charles
collection.pdf_.

The first two columns in the table list, in descending order, the
number of box cars owned on 12-31-1950 by 71 US railroads. These
numbers are from _The Handbook of American Railroads_.

There are 194 photos of boxcars in the Charles collection. Most of
them were taken in 1946 and 1947 in the greater Harrisburg PA area on
the PRR. The most common photo location is the PRR eastbound receiving
yard in Harrisburg. The third column in the table lists the expected
boxcar counts by railroad for a total of 194 boxcars, based on the
second column. The fourth column lists the actual number of boxcar
photos in the Charles collection.

Given the small size of the sample, I think that these numbers support
Tim Gilbert's hypothesis that the number of boxcars owned by railroad
can be used to predict the expected number of boxcars observed. Other
list members are welcome to draw their own conclusions about this data.

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





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Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.6.3/1614 - Release Date: 8/15/2008 5:29 PM


A new caboose book just out.

Edwin C Kirstatter <Q1xaMacArthur1@...>
 

For all of you who like the other end of the train.

Dwight Jones has just released another in his
series of books about cabooses.

This one is about DT&I Cabooses. 88 pages of
history and many photos, some in color too.
I am lucky to have one of mine included.

Ed K, B&O Modeler.
____________________________________________________________
Click here for huge discounts on tradeshow supplies.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3m7g5xy26zr5lIFi7kFxSG8Vj9QDqa2gAAWfbQb8rF8RyPVX/


Box car counts by RR - NMRA Charles collection

Larry Kline
 

I just posted a table in the files section file that compares expected and actual counts of boxcars by railroad in the NMRA Charles collection. The file name is _Compare box car counts US RRs - Charles collection.pdf_.

The first two columns in the table list, in descending order, the number of box cars owned on 12-31-1950 by 71 US railroads. These numbers are from _The Handbook of American Railroads_.

There are 194 photos of boxcars in the Charles collection. Most of them were taken in 1946 and 1947 in the greater Harrisburg PA area on the PRR. The most common photo location is the PRR eastbound receiving yard in Harrisburg. The third column in the table lists the expected boxcar counts by railroad for a total of 194 boxcars, based on the second column. The fourth column lists the actual number of boxcar photos in the Charles collection.

Given the small size of the sample, I think that these numbers support Tim Gilbert's hypothesis that the number of boxcars owned by railroad can be used to predict the expected number of boxcars observed. Other list members are welcome to draw their own conclusions about this data.

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA


New file uploaded to STMFC

STMFC@...
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the STMFC
group.

File : /Compare box car counts US RRs - Charles collection.pdf
Uploaded by : bowestym <lndkline@...>
Description : Boxcar counts by RR from Handbook of American RRs compared with the NMRA Charles collection

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/Compare%20box%20car%20counts%20US%20RRs%20-%20%20Charles%20%20collection.pdf

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.htmlfiles

Regards,

bowestym <lndkline@...>


Foundry Symbols

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

I uploaded a document in the FILES section titled "Unknown Foundry Symbols". I know there are many on here who have examined such marks on trucks, couplers, and other hardware and might have photos or other documentation giving a name or source for parts with these symbols. Please take a look and see if there are any you recognize - I'd appreciate it.

I also uploaded a file titled "Foundry Symbols and Trademarks" which is an article I wrote about the subject. It is in the context of cast armor and other steel parts for tanks, but it should be useful for railroad equipment as well.

Thanks,
KL


New file uploaded to STMFC

STMFC@...
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the STMFC
group.

File : /Foundry Symbols and Trademarks.doc
Uploaded by : kurt_laughlin <fleeta@...>
Description : Foundry Symbols and Trademarks

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/Foundry%20Symbols%20and%20Trademarks.doc

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.htmlfiles

Regards,

kurt_laughlin <fleeta@...>


New file uploaded to STMFC

STMFC@...
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the STMFC
group.

File : /Unknown Foundry Symbols.doc
Uploaded by : kurt_laughlin <fleeta@...>
Description : Unknown Foundry Symbols

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/Unknown%20Foundry%20Symbols.doc

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.htmlfiles

Regards,

kurt_laughlin <fleeta@...>


ADMIN: Digest

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

A slight warning about using the digest system. Often a member using the digest does not, apparently, see an ADMIN message that, for example, might terminate or note that a thread has moved out of scope. In the past some members have had to spend the night in Moderate Jail...being innocently caught up in a policing activity. Oddly, the STMFC must operate in a perpetual winter...the nights being rather long <G>.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


Re: Looking for IN THE FIELD pix of C&O 91-ton gons

Eric Hansmann
 

Al Kresse wrote:

I'm looking for pictures of C&O 100000-100999 series high capy gons in
the yards, in the coal fields, or at the coal docks taken between 1921
and 1946. I have builders and tech journal prints plus Raceland AMC
May 1931 repaint photos already.

============================


Al,

I did a quick scan at the West Virginia & Regional history on-line collection here:
http://images.lib.wvu.edu/cgi/i/image/image-idx?page=index;c=wvcp;g=wvcart

I only searched using 'Tipple' as a parameter. I noted C&O gons in several images, but none
from the series you requested. I only did a quick check. You may want to peruse this archive
with more diligence.

Eric Hansmann
Morgantown, W. Va.

122001 - 122020 of 197031