1. main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
  2. Messages
   Date   
Re: Freight car distribution

Stokes John
 

This is the other factor in this essentially impossible and largely meaningless exercise in trying to figure out how many cars of each type would typically be seen on a train in the time period selected and then extrapolate that information to one's model railroad. Who has 1000 + cars? Who has the full mix of car types within box car classes alone and who has a layout on which to run full length freight trains? Not very many of us at all. So the averages, which are a rule of thumb perhaps but otherwise are just a mental exercise, don't really apply to any actual person's layout. Far too many, many variables in a national system, with the almost infinite perambulations of individual railroads, prototype and model, for these figures to have real meaning to a modeler. Again, the best and perhaps only lesson is to try to avoid the "iconic" cars when they were actually few in number, and balance your cars, with a good dose of home road cars, depending on what the history of your prototype was at any given time, when they had or didn't have a large fleet or kept it close to home, as in grain shipment time or on dedicated mineral runs.

Reality is not the same as a computer simulation under the rather limited and primitive conditions we are working in here.

It doesn't take a long time looking at photos, for example, of Northern Pacific or Great Northern freight trains and yards to see that at least on the days the pictures were taken, home road equipment often dominated, but the stats say otherwise. Go figure. Glad you are having fun with all this, Mike.

John Stokes
Bellevue, WA



To: STMFC@...: brockm@...: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 20:18:51 -0400Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Freight car distribution




Tim O'Connor writes:"Good work, Larry! That's what I'm talkin' 'bout!A 40 car train with 9 SP (not counting T&NO) boxcars.."I assume you mean a train with 40 box cars. Actually the 1949 trains averaged 82.3 cars."More than 5 times the 'average' value of1.6."I'm not certain what the 1.6 represents. The actual number is 4.Mike Brock...I never thought statistics could be fun.
Re: Freight car distribution

Tim O'Connor
 

Mike Brock wrote

Larry, could you explain what you are talking about? You show RR [ i.e., SP
excluding T&NO ], number [ number of SP box cars { 27757 } ] Nat'l % [ you
show 4.0% but Tim shoed 3.9% ] and Random % [ 4.01% ]. What is the
derivation of the random %?
Mike, he ran 100,000 iterations of a 40 car box car train, composed
of cars chosen randomly from every possible prototype. The National
% is obvious, and then he finds the AVERAGE % found for that railroad
in the random consists. What is not obvious about this?


I tallied the maximum number of cars for each railroad over all the
iterations. In a 40 boxcar train, the average number of cars would be
40 times the national percentage shown in the above table."
Why do you say that?
Because he described it obscurely. He simply kept track of the largest
number of cars seen for each reporting mark in the 100,000 trains. Is
this not also obvious?


Well...actually that's not so at all. The correct number is 4. 136/34
If you use real...rather than theoretical data.
Real what? 136 box cars? 136 trains? 136 days? 136 train consists?

Larry's example was PURELY theoretical, and he made an excellent point.
I guess some people just don't get it.


We know that there were 4 of 34 trains...11.76%...of the trains with
far more than 9 SP bx cars.
Mike, you are having trouble grasping the idea. Larry has presented
100,00 theoretical trains, of fixed length, of random composition.
You persist with your miniscule sample of 34 actual trains of
varying length and composition of different sorts of cars (not just
box cars).


The 1953 data shows the "infamous" train with 36 or more SP box cars
[not T&NO ].
Yes, but I will argue that the Overland Route for the UP and SP was
a 'home road extension' in that each road was highly dependent on the
other for traffic. Therefore we can discount the presence of SP as
well as UP cars in all trains over Sherman Hill, for the purposes of
this discussion. This is exactly the "skew" that each layout has to
consider.

Tim O'Connor
Re: Freight car distribution

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Tim O'Connor writes:

"Good work, Larry! That's what I'm talkin' 'bout!
A 40 car train with 9 SP (not counting T&NO) box
cars.."

I assume you mean a train with 40 box cars. Actually the 1949 trains averaged 82.3 cars.

"More than 5 times the 'average' value of
1.6."

I'm not certain what the 1.6 represents. The actual number is 4.

Mike Brock...I never thought statistics could be fun.
Re: A Purpose For Frt Car Distribution Studies. Was: Re: Re

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Steve Lucas writes:

"Tony--

After reading this thread for some time, I have to agree with your
basic premise. Most major through transcon routes such as the UP in
Wyoming would very likely have over a given period, percentages of
each road's boxcars in keeping with the national averages. The law
of averages supports this."

Well...perhaps someone's law of averages supports it but the data does not. Can you explain that?

Mike Brock
Re: Freight car distribution

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Larry Ostresh writes:

"I ran my "random train" Excel program for 100,000 iterations to test
whether it was working OK. The average number of boxcars per train,
by railroad, seemed to properly mirror the national fleet as
represented by Tim Gilbert's data for 1949:"

Larry, could you explain what you are talking about? You show RR [ i.e., SP excluding T&NO ], number [ number of SP box cars { 27757 } ] Nat'l % [ you show 4.0% but Tim shoed 3.9% ] and Random % [ 4.01% ]. What is the derivation of the random %?

RR___Number___Nat'l %___Random %

SP-Pac___27,757___4.00%___4.01%

"(The "Number" and "Nat'l %" columns above are from Tim's 1949 list of
boxcars."

Yep.

"His data are at "4060totalboxcarsUSownership.xls" in the
files section of this list."

Yep.

"The "Random %" column is the average
percentage of cars per train generated by my Excel program after
100,000 iterations. Each train consisted of 40 boxcars.)"

Hmmm. Well, 40 box cars is OK...actually 39.

"While running the program, I tallied the maximum number of cars for
each railroad over all the iterations. In a 40 boxcar train, the
average number of cars would be 40 times the national percentage
shown in the above table."

Why do you say that?

"For example, the average number of SP-Pac
cars would 40 * 4% = 1.6 cars - 1 or 2 cars per train."

Well...actually that's not so at all. The correct number is 4. 136/34= If you use real...rather than theoretical data. IOW, the 4% [ actually 3.9% ] fails to produce the actual number of cars...136.

"Any
particular 40 boxcar train may have more or less SP-Pac cars (0 to
40)."

"After 100,000 trials, there were in fact trains with no SP-Pac
boxcars, but no train had more than 9 of them."

We know that there were 4 of 34 trains...11.76%...of the trains with far more than 9 SP bx cars.

The 1953 data shows the "infamous" train with 36 or more SP bx cars [ not T&NO ].

Mike Brock
Re: A Purpose For Frt Car Distribution Studies. Was: Re: Re:Fwd: Re: Freigh

Bruce Smith
 

On Fri, August 15, 2008 5:45 pm, devansprr wrote:

But I do not have good info on details such as tank car manufacturer
type (e.g. 11, 21, 27, etc). If that exists let me know and I'll search
for it - there is a wealth of data in this site - it could use a full
word index system for quicker and more accurate searches.

Tank cars - (Information from Tim Gilbert summarizing the January 1943 ORER)
Union Tank Car Co. 38,707
General American Transportation Co. 27,867
Pennsylvania-Conley Tank - div. of GATX 10,327
Shippers Car Line 6,949
Sinclair Refining Co. 6,447
AT&SF 3,567
US War Department 2,475
SP - Pacific Lines 2,219
Gulf Oil Co. 1,551
UP 1,096
Dupont 1,068
Sun Oil Co. 1,035

However, given that the ORER does not allow us to decipher types, and tank
car companies were notorious for mixing cars from multiple makers into
series, the best I think we can do is try to convey the impression of the
WWII fleet.

Some rules of thumb -
-UTLX had the biggest fleet so the X-3 would likely be the most common
tank (Lots of Sunshine kits!) and IIRC, the 8K size was NOT the most
common (10K?)

-AC&F production of type 21 cars outnumbered type 27 by a significant
margin, and the 8K size was the most common of the type 21s.

-GATC built tanks were fairly common and we have no reasonable model in HO
for a fleet.

-"Oddballs" such as the UTLX "van Dyke", and earlier type 7 and 11 tanks
should not appear in great numbers, but were certainly in use.

So, for now, a fleet of Sunshine and Walthers/P2K tanks with a few
Intermountain, Precision Scale, Speedwitch (NATX tanks), IM/Tichy bashed
USG-A, Southern Car and Foundry (STC cars) and whatever else I've
forgotten (like the RC brass GATC cars and other brass cars) will make a
reasonable fleet with the exception of missing GATC cars. Like boxcars,
this approach will give you the varying sizes and features seen in WWII
era "pipelines on rails"

See my other post, but I thought most WWII era refineries were north of
the gulf - the off-shore oil had not been developed yet.

During WWII, the tank cars and pipelines carried crude oil and not refined
products to the refineries in the NE. Those fields, as others have noted
were onshore fields in Louisianna and Texas.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
Re: Union Pacific Stock car class

Rich Yoder
 

Thank you Tony.
What car class was that equivalent to on the SP?

Sincerely, Rich Yoder
7 Edgedale Court
Wyomissing PA 19610-1913
610-678-2834 after 6:00PM est until 10:00PM
www.richyodermodels.com

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Anthony Thompson
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 6:16 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Union Pacific Stock car class

Rich Yoder wrote:
Yes I mean UP #46759.
What class was that car?
Class S-40-6.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: DTI trucks

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Thanks. I must be thinking of the 70 ton trucks.
Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Leppert" <b.leppert@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 6:32 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: DTI trucks


Brian,

If you're thinking of Pennsy's 2D-F12 truck, then no. It's different.
It has the distinct V-9306 sideframe with room for only one leaf and
two coil springs, whereas the trucks on my list of users are all double-
truss sideframes with two coil springs to each side of the single leaf
spring. Pennsy did have double-truss 70-ton versions with a pair of
leaf springs surrounded by four coil springs.

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works

-- In STMFC@..., "Brian J Carlson" <brian@...> wrote:

Add PRR to the list.
Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY
----- Original Message -----


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: DTI trucks

Brian Leppert <b.leppert@...>
 

Brian,

If you're thinking of Pennsy's 2D-F12 truck, then no. It's different.
It has the distinct V-9306 sideframe with room for only one leaf and
two coil springs, whereas the trucks on my list of users are all double-
truss sideframes with two coil springs to each side of the single leaf
spring. Pennsy did have double-truss 70-ton versions with a pair of
leaf springs surrounded by four coil springs.

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works

-- In STMFC@..., "Brian J Carlson" <brian@...> wrote:

Add PRR to the list.
Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY
----- Original Message -----
Re: Union Pacific Stock car class

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Rich Yoder wrote:
Yes I mean UP #46759.
What class was that car?
Class S-40-6.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
Re: Union Pacific Stock car class

Rich Yoder
 

Yes I mean UP #46759.
What class was that car?

Sincerely, Rich Yoder
7 Edgedale Court
Wyomissing PA 19610-1913
610-678-2834 after 6:00PM est until 10:00PM
www.richyodermodels.com

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
dmueller183@...
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 5:43 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Union Pacific Stock car class

You mean 46759? There is no 46795 in the 1940, 1950, or
1953 ORER's.

...and ditto for july 1959 dave





</HTML>





------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: DTI trucks

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Add PRR to the list.
Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

----- Original Message -----
Re: Freight car distribution

armprem
 

Unfortunately there are not enough different models available to even
begin to come close to "National Averages".Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim O'Connor" <timboconnor@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 4:54 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Freight car distribution



Good work, Larry! That's what I'm talkin' 'bout!
A 40 car train with 9 SP (not counting T&NO) box
cars.. More than 5 times the 'average' value of
1.6. And the peak CMO value at 20 times its average
of 0.2! And yet, the OVERALL averages are exactly
what we expect, representing the fact that each car
has an equal chance.

Model railroad operations would be much improved if
someone could devise an easy way to do this using
paper car cards and waybills. (Since most people seem
to hate using computer switchlists.)

Tim O'Connor


At 8/17/2008 02:54 PM Sunday, you wrote:
Hi Folks

I ran my "random train" Excel program for 100,000 iterations to test
whether it was working OK. The average number of boxcars per train,
by railroad, seemed to properly mirror the national fleet as
represented by Tim Gilbert's data for 1949:

RR___Number___Nat'l %___Random %
ACL___13,831___1.99%___1.99%
AT&SF___35,234___5.08%___5.09%
B&M___2,755___0.40%___0.40%
B&O___28,683___4.13%___4.12%
C&EI___1,185___0.17%___0.17%
C&NW___23,284___3.36%___3.37%
C&O___21,699___3.13%___3.13%
CB&Q___31,634___4.56%___4.55%
CGA___5,153___0.74%___0.74%
CGW___3,622___0.52%___0.52%
CMO___3,422___0.49%___0.49%
CNJ___1,757___0.25%___0.26%
CNJ-CRP___1,247___0.18%___0.18%
CRI&P___17,160___2.47%___2.46%
D&H___2,469___0.36%___0.36%
DL&W___7,585___1.09%___1.09%
DM&IR___337___0.05%___0.05%
DRG&W___5,094___0.73%___0.74%
EJ&E___1,427___0.21%___0.21%
ERIE___12,070___1.74%___1.74%
GM&O___6,177___0.89%___0.89%
GN___22,399___3.23%___3.24%
GTW___8,556___1.23%___1.22%
IC___21,248___3.06%___3.08%
KCS___2,923___0.42%___0.42%
L&N___13,324___1.92%___1.92%
LV___5,584___0.80%___0.81%
MILW___32,076___4.62%___4.62%
MKT___5,235___0.75%___0.76%
MP___18,112___2.61%___2.61%
MP-IGN___2,572___0.37%___0.37%
N&W___8,986___1.30%___1.31%
NC&SL___3,603___0.52%___0.52%
NH___6,012___0.87%___0.86%
NKP___11,255___1.62%___1.63%
NP___19,317___2.78%___2.77%
NYC___66,867___9.64%___9.64%
P&LE___4,118___0.59%___0.59%
PRR___64,670___9.32%___9.33%
RDG___7,639___1.10%___1.11%
SAL___12,396___1.79%___1.79%
SLSF___13,255___1.91%___1.91%
SOO___8,728___1.26%___1.27%
SOU___26,331___3.80%___3.79%
SP-Pac___27,757___4.00%___4.01%
SP-T&NO___7,438___1.07%___1.07%
SSW___3,700___0.53%___0.54%
T&P___4,288___0.62%___0.61%
UP___23,758___3.42%___3.43%
WAB___11,572___1.67%___1.68%
WM___2,143___0.31%___0.31%
WP___1,995___0.29%___0.28%
Total___693,682___100.00%___100.00%

(The "Number" and "Nat'l %" columns above are from Tim's 1949 list of
boxcars. His data are at "4060totalboxcarsUSownership.xls" in the
files section of this list. The "Random %" column is the average
percentage of cars per train generated by my Excel program after
100,000 iterations. Each train consisted of 40 boxcars.)

While running the program, I tallied the maximum number of cars for
each railroad over all the iterations. In a 40 boxcar train, the
average number of cars would be 40 times the national percentage
shown in the above table. For example, the average number of SP-Pac
cars would 40 * 4% = 1.6 cars � 1 or 2 cars per train. Any
particular 40 boxcar train may have more or less SP-Pac cars (0 to
40). After 100,000 trials, there were in fact trains with no SP-Pac
boxcars, but no train had more than 9 of them. Here are the results
for all the railroads:

RR___Nat'l Avg___Max Rnd
ACL___0.80___6
AT&SF___2.03___9
B&M___0.16___3
B&O___1.65___10
C&EI___0.07___3
C&NW___1.34___9
C&O___1.25___8
CB&Q___1.82___9
CGA___0.30___5
CGW___0.21___4
CMO___0.20___4
CNJ___0.10___4
CNJ-CRP___0.07___3
CRI&P___0.99___7
D&H___0.14___4
DL&W___0.44___5
DM&IR___0.02___2
DRG&W___0.29___4
EJ&E___0.08___3
ERIE___0.70___7
GM&O___0.36___5
GN___1.29___8
GTW___0.49___5
IC___1.23___8
KCS___0.17___4
L&N___0.77___6
LV___0.32___4
MILW___1.85___9
MKT___0.30___5
MP___1.04___7
MP-IGN___0.15___4
N&W___0.52___6
NC&SL___0.21___4
NH___0.35___5
NKP___0.65___6
NP___1.11___8
NYC___3.86___14
P&LE___0.24___4
PRR___3.73___13
RDG___0.44___6
SAL___0.71___7
SLSF___0.76___7
SOO___0.50___5
SOU___1.52___9
SP-Pac___1.60___9
SP-T&NO___0.43___5
SSW___0.21___5
T&P___0.25___4
UP___1.37___8
WAB___0.67___6
WM___0.12___4
WP___0.12___3
Total___40.00___NA

("Nat'l Avg" is the average number of boxcars in a 40 car train based
on the national average; "Max Rnd" is the maximum number of boxcars
for any 40 car train after 100,000 iterations of the Excel program.)

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





--
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.15.10/1091 - Release Date: 10/24/07
2:31 PM
Re: DTI trucks

Brian Leppert <b.leppert@...>
 

Tim,

Here's some railroads I know of that used the double truss coil-
elliptic sprung 40 and 50 ton trucks, with or without spring planks:

C&O, CGW, WM, BAR and Erie used them on some or all of their 1932 ARA
box cars.

N&W, DT&I and Virginian had them on all of their round roof box cars.

DT&I, Erie, CGW, WM and L&NE all had various other cars equipped with
this truck.

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Brian (Carlson) sent me a great photo of a 3rd sideframe with these
springs -- This one is a Buckeye casting (circle-B foundry
mark)... very interesting. Anyone know who besides DT&I had
trucks like this?
Tim O'
Re: Union Pacific Stock car class

Tim O'Connor
 

You mean 46759? There is no 46795 in the 1940, 1950, or
1953 ORER's.

At 8/17/2008 04:28 PM Sunday, you wrote:
What class of cars does
UP #46795 Stock car belong to?
Rich Yoder
PA
Re: A Purpose For Frt Car Distribution Studies

Tim O'Connor
 

Steve, I don't see any 'danger' at all, as long as you
-ASSIGN- cars to run on the layout in the proportions to the
national fleet. In other words, suppose you have 103 box cars
and Railroad XYZ only represents 1 as a national percentage,
but you own 4 XYZ box cars. No problem -- in your computation
(like Larry's EXCEL spreadsheet) you only allow each XYZ car
to represent 0.25 (1/4) of one car.

This gives you the ability to model more of the fleets of
your favorite railroads, but has no effect on the proportions
of those cars that show up during operations.

As for the percentage of 40' vs 50', I don't see any issue.
If you need a higher percentage of 40' cars then build your
fleet that way. The numbers of cars for a typical layout are
too small to give a true proportional representation of the
entire country. You'd need about 1,000+ box cars to do that.

Tim O'Connor

The danger lies in having a model car fleet that models many
exceptional cars, rather than a good overall representation of the
national fleet. But it's too easy for the modeller to, absent
knowledge of each road's freight car fleet and its relative
percentage to the national fleet, to model those exceptions. For
example, as much as I want a model of a B&O M-53, there are other B&O
cars that I have come to learn to be more common to that road. I
have to have many CN boxcars (fortunately, I do) to justify modelling
just ONE of the three aluminum-sided cars that they had. If you model
20 B&O boxcars, you can justify having one M53 in your fleet far
sooner than I can, where I will only need one B&O boxcar for my
layout.

Likewise there is some weighting that one has to be factored in by
the modeller to represent the location that they model. Your road
may move a lot of grain in boxcars, and the ratio of cars (home road
vs. national fleet) will change whether or not the grain is running.
Likewise, boxcar precentages from the ORER are not a good way to
determine the car population for a grain-hauling layout. Preferred
will be 40' steel or steel-frame boxcars with 6' doors. Far less
common will be cars with larger doors, as they were practically
useless for grain loading. And open coal hoppers, though not part of
this discussion, will have interesting distribution variations of
their own!

Steve Lucas.
Re: Freight car distribution

Tim O'Connor
 

Good work, Larry! That's what I'm talkin' 'bout!
A 40 car train with 9 SP (not counting T&NO) box
cars.. More than 5 times the 'average' value of
1.6. And the peak CMO value at 20 times its average
of 0.2! And yet, the OVERALL averages are exactly
what we expect, representing the fact that each car
has an equal chance.

Model railroad operations would be much improved if
someone could devise an easy way to do this using
paper car cards and waybills. (Since most people seem
to hate using computer switchlists.)

Tim O'Connor

At 8/17/2008 02:54 PM Sunday, you wrote:
Hi Folks

I ran my "random train" Excel program for 100,000 iterations to test
whether it was working OK. The average number of boxcars per train,
by railroad, seemed to properly mirror the national fleet as
represented by Tim Gilbert's data for 1949:

RR___Number___Nat'l %___Random %
ACL___13,831___1.99%___1.99%
AT&SF___35,234___5.08%___5.09%
B&M___2,755___0.40%___0.40%
B&O___28,683___4.13%___4.12%
C&EI___1,185___0.17%___0.17%
C&NW___23,284___3.36%___3.37%
C&O___21,699___3.13%___3.13%
CB&Q___31,634___4.56%___4.55%
CGA___5,153___0.74%___0.74%
CGW___3,622___0.52%___0.52%
CMO___3,422___0.49%___0.49%
CNJ___1,757___0.25%___0.26%
CNJ-CRP___1,247___0.18%___0.18%
CRI&P___17,160___2.47%___2.46%
D&H___2,469___0.36%___0.36%
DL&W___7,585___1.09%___1.09%
DM&IR___337___0.05%___0.05%
DRG&W___5,094___0.73%___0.74%
EJ&E___1,427___0.21%___0.21%
ERIE___12,070___1.74%___1.74%
GM&O___6,177___0.89%___0.89%
GN___22,399___3.23%___3.24%
GTW___8,556___1.23%___1.22%
IC___21,248___3.06%___3.08%
KCS___2,923___0.42%___0.42%
L&N___13,324___1.92%___1.92%
LV___5,584___0.80%___0.81%
MILW___32,076___4.62%___4.62%
MKT___5,235___0.75%___0.76%
MP___18,112___2.61%___2.61%
MP-IGN___2,572___0.37%___0.37%
N&W___8,986___1.30%___1.31%
NC&SL___3,603___0.52%___0.52%
NH___6,012___0.87%___0.86%
NKP___11,255___1.62%___1.63%
NP___19,317___2.78%___2.77%
NYC___66,867___9.64%___9.64%
P&LE___4,118___0.59%___0.59%
PRR___64,670___9.32%___9.33%
RDG___7,639___1.10%___1.11%
SAL___12,396___1.79%___1.79%
SLSF___13,255___1.91%___1.91%
SOO___8,728___1.26%___1.27%
SOU___26,331___3.80%___3.79%
SP-Pac___27,757___4.00%___4.01%
SP-T&NO___7,438___1.07%___1.07%
SSW___3,700___0.53%___0.54%
T&P___4,288___0.62%___0.61%
UP___23,758___3.42%___3.43%
WAB___11,572___1.67%___1.68%
WM___2,143___0.31%___0.31%
WP___1,995___0.29%___0.28%
Total___693,682___100.00%___100.00%

(The "Number" and "Nat'l %" columns above are from Tim's 1949 list of
boxcars. His data are at "4060totalboxcarsUSownership.xls" in the
files section of this list. The "Random %" column is the average
percentage of cars per train generated by my Excel program after
100,000 iterations. Each train consisted of 40 boxcars.)

While running the program, I tallied the maximum number of cars for
each railroad over all the iterations. In a 40 boxcar train, the
average number of cars would be 40 times the national percentage
shown in the above table. For example, the average number of SP-Pac
cars would 40 * 4% = 1.6 cars ­ 1 or 2 cars per train. Any
particular 40 boxcar train may have more or less SP-Pac cars (0 to
40). After 100,000 trials, there were in fact trains with no SP-Pac
boxcars, but no train had more than 9 of them. Here are the results
for all the railroads:

RR___Nat'l Avg___Max Rnd
ACL___0.80___6
AT&SF___2.03___9
B&M___0.16___3
B&O___1.65___10
C&EI___0.07___3
C&NW___1.34___9
C&O___1.25___8
CB&Q___1.82___9
CGA___0.30___5
CGW___0.21___4
CMO___0.20___4
CNJ___0.10___4
CNJ-CRP___0.07___3
CRI&P___0.99___7
D&H___0.14___4
DL&W___0.44___5
DM&IR___0.02___2
DRG&W___0.29___4
EJ&E___0.08___3
ERIE___0.70___7
GM&O___0.36___5
GN___1.29___8
GTW___0.49___5
IC___1.23___8
KCS___0.17___4
L&N___0.77___6
LV___0.32___4
MILW___1.85___9
MKT___0.30___5
MP___1.04___7
MP-IGN___0.15___4
N&W___0.52___6
NC&SL___0.21___4
NH___0.35___5
NKP___0.65___6
NP___1.11___8
NYC___3.86___14
P&LE___0.24___4
PRR___3.73___13
RDG___0.44___6
SAL___0.71___7
SLSF___0.76___7
SOO___0.50___5
SOU___1.52___9
SP-Pac___1.60___9
SP-T&NO___0.43___5
SSW___0.21___5
T&P___0.25___4
UP___1.37___8
WAB___0.67___6
WM___0.12___4
WP___0.12___3
Total___40.00___NA

("Nat'l Avg" is the average number of boxcars in a 40 car train based
on the national average; "Max Rnd" is the maximum number of boxcars
for any 40 car train after 100,000 iterations of the Excel program.)

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming
Re: Battleship Gons trucks

Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

Al - C&O battleships can reasonably be modelled from Buckeyes. N&W early battleships used Pilchers which are available from Bethlehem Car Works. The Lewis trucks are unlike anything on the market but are simple enough to scratch build. - Al Westerfield

----- Original Message -----
From: water.kresse@...
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Battleship Gons trucks


Folks,

In reseaching the C&O, N&W and Virginian high capacity gons, of the late-teens and early-twenties, one see a great number of experimental 6-wheel trucks being "tried" : ASF Lewis, ASF Equalizing Arm, ASF Lemont, Buckeye, etc. Do we have any of these covered in HO scale for the modeler to "kit bash" a body on. The C&O's 1941-1942 WW2 125-ton flat car trucks might be close enough for a potion of the early VGN 120-ton cars and their upgraded 105-ton Virginian cars.

Al Kresse
Re: DTI trucks

Tim O'Connor
 

Brian sent me a great photo of a 3rd sideframe with these
springs -- This one is a Buckeye casting (circle-B foundry
mark)... very interesting. Anyone know who besides DT&I had
trucks like this?
Tim O'

Tim: I attached a photo of the truck and car. I don't know what DTI series
this car was in besides I was a 60-early 70's repaint. Brian I copied you
since it is a truck.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim O'Connor" <timboconnor@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] DTI trucks


Brian

You may not be aware but the earliest version of those trucks
I've seen were cast in 1934 by ASF, while the DT&I cars were
built (with different castings from unknown foundry) in 1949.
So someone had the coil-leaf-coil trucks before DT&I. (Or they
were applied to some other DT&I cars.)

Tim


At 8/17/2008 02:43 PM Sunday, you wrote:
I have 5-6 of the DT&I cars located nearby some still have those trucks.
I
posted some photos to the list years ago 2004 but removed them later.
Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY
Union Pacific Stock car class

Rich Yoder
 

What class of cars does
UP #46795 Stock car belong to?
Rich Yoder
PA
119661 - 119680 of 194744