Date   

pulpwood loads

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

At the RPI club, we need a bunch of pulpwood cars. We have a number of MDC
gons lettered for C&O (the prototype of the kit) and a few kitbashed to N&W
and Rutland (different ends). We just discovered that Chooch makes a cast
resin pulpwood load for 40 foot gons, with wood stuck upright in the ends to
act as a bulkhead. So we figured these would be a quick way to get a bunch
even as we make some cars with individually cut twigs.
First of all, the Chooch loads are a touch too big to fit in the MDC
gon. They fit in the Ertl with a little room to spare, which looks a little
odd, but at least they are in there. They also represent 8 foot logs, not
four foot stacked side by side.
They are very heavy for a car - a little work with a Dremel to hollow
them out might work without too much trouble.
We've hit them with a dark brown wash and that really helped, as it
created dark areas between the logs, making them look separate. And we are
trying to add a single layer of just enough on the top to give a feeling of
natural variation, and yet not have them look so different from the rest of
the ends that they are a distraction. Will let you know how they turn out,
but it looks promising.
- John


Re: random questions

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

The DA grabs are indeed 22" (or 24") ... too long for most uses.
The best replacements are Kadee's of course, but you have to buy
a whole boxcar to get them. ;o( Otherwise Red Caboose and
Intermountain and Branchline and Proto2000 all make bracket
grabs. You can greatly improve the appearance by cutting off the
plastic rod, and coring the brackets for .008 wire. This is kinda
tedious but not as hard as it may sound. They're also much stronger
than the originals when you do this.

----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Aley - GCD PE <jaley@pcocd2.intel.com>

Aren't the DA bracket grabs too long for most applications?


Re: running boards

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

I like the detail on the Tichy boards, but we got a whole bunch which were
seriously twisted. I'm not sure this is common to them in general, or we
just lucked out. - John


Re: random questions

Jeff Aley - GCD PE <jaley@...>
 

On Mar 1, 8:25pm, bhom3@home.com wrote:
Subject: [STMFC] Re: random questions
Grab Irons: I prefer Westerfield's wire grabs - they're brass, which
I feel is easier to work with, especially when you have to file them
flush with the inside of an open car. Your choices for bracket type
grabs are much more limited, with the Details Associates part being
pretty much the only game in town.
Aren't the DA bracket grabs too long for most applications? I tried
shortening them (cut off the grab; leave the bracket; replace grab with
wire), but my modeling skills are apparently insufficient.
Result: I use Red Caboose bracket grabs. (I should try replacing the grab
part of *those* with wire; perhaps it's easier since they're styrene).

Regards,

-Jeff

--
Jeff Aley, Development Engineer jaley@pcocd2.intel.com
Graphics Components Division
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533


Re: random questions

bhom3@...
 

Richard Stallworth asked:

"Is there a problem in getting models from Sunshine Models? I've
heard it mentioned on other lists that it takes a very loonnggg time
to receive models or catalogs from this company."

I'm in agreement with John - I've never had any problems with getting
kits from Martin. Your best bet is to order from him direct.


"Is there a particular detail parts company that is better at
building steam-era super detail parts? More variety?"

When it comes to detail parts, there isn't a "one-stop" vendor that
has everything, which isn't necessarily a bad thing given the variety
of the prototype. Here are some tips on some of the more common
parts (opinions expressed are my own and may not represent those of
the other members of the list):

Grab Irons: I prefer Westerfield's wire grabs - they're brass, which
I feel is easier to work with, especially when you have to file them
flush with the inside of an open car. Your choices for bracket type
grabs are much more limited, with the Details Associates part being
pretty much the only game in town.

Stirrup Steps: A-Line steps whever prototypically appropriate - the
wire steps hold up better under layout conditions than the Details
Associates derlin steps; however, Details Associates makes a greater
variety of types.

Brake Details: Tichy makes very nice K and AB brake sets which blow
away the previous standard, the old Cal-Scale sets.

Brake Wheels: For later brake wheels, Kadee offers the same ones on
their PS-1's spearately, though without housings. Details Associates
offers a variety of brake wheels with housings. Precision Scale
makes a very nice Ajax brakewheel (no housing).

Running Boards: Tichy offers the nice injection molded wooden
running board from their USRA SS Boxcar kit if you don't want to
build one from wood or styrene, although the lateral running boards
are for the USRA car's more narrow width and run parallel to the
ends. For metal running boards, etched metal is the way to go, with
Plano Model Products making a good variety of designs. Just remember
to use a flexible adhesive such as R/C 50 or Weldbond or (in the
immortal words of Tim O'Connor) SPROING!!

Various manufacturers also offer kit components separately -
(underframes from Red Caboose, Intermountain, and Central Valley, for
example), and Al Westerfield offers many of his kit castings as
separate parts. He will also run specific parts from his kits as
needed (I've got some eight panel USRA Steel Boxcar sides for a PRR
Class ARA boxcar kitbash that I still need to finish) - contact him
for specific terms and prices.

Hope this gives you a running start!


Ben Hom


Re: UP Frt Conductor Book Data...a quick look

n40015@...
 

Mike.... this is a super find! And I'm sure you're as suprised to find the
great range of cars in the consists as anyone. I'd like to make a trade with
you. If you share the tank car data with me, I'll swap what info I can
uncover regarding the L&N rolling stock. :-) Charlie

Charles Dean
Shelbyville, Ky.

In a message dated 3/1/1 11:51:18 AM, brockm@brevard.net writes:

<< A quick look at the UP Freight conductor's book that I recently
acquired...thanks to Jeff Aley bringing it to my attention...shows some
interesting stuff. First, the book contains data on 35 UP trains between
Laramie and Rawlins [ to the west ], WY, over about a month and a half...Mar
6 to April 22, 1949.

As I have always maintained, every frt car...or one of its class...crossed
Sherman Hill at least once in its life. This book seems to prove that out.
The variety of RRs is impressive...not unexpected for a trunk line like UP in
Wyoming I suppose.

One train of particular interest is one carrying only ore. I cannot actually
tell if the ore carrying cars are in only one train or part of
another...given the structure of the book. Anyhow, the ore carrying cars are
all box cars. Perhaps most surprising is that none are UP. Roads included are
SLSF, NH [ NH?], IC, NYC, CN, NP, L&N, Milw, MP, ATSF, Q, RI, NKP, KCS, CNW,
SAL, and Sou and that's from a string of only 26 cars.

I have not dertimined destination completely. LA-4 and SP-1 are mentioned
frequently, as are numbers 2,3,5, & 6. The ore string of cars is going to Van
6. These destinations are not stations since 3 would be that for Omaha and
the referenced train is westbound.

Commodities are listed fairly well. For instance there are loads of wine,
oil, and gasoline and associated tank cars. One strange load is milk in ATSF
6970...a box car.

Naturally I had to check for the elusive N&W hopper....I can feel the crowd
grow tense, sudden silence in anticipation.

Here's a list of coal or coke carrying cars included in trains I've
checked...about half of the 35 listed: Loads are coal unless indicated.

1. Pennsy gon G-29 359601
2. B&O gon 261628
3. MP gon 72363
4. Lackawanna gon 66057
5. NYC gon 631040 coke
6. Frisco hopper 86496 coke
7. MKT gon 41492

***** WARNING WARNING WARNING
8. N&W gon 91097
9. N&W gon 100350 pitch

Does this qualify me to win the cash prize...or bounty...offered [ or should
be offered ] by certain westcoast frt car aficionados ? Well, technically,
no. These are not hoppers. But, they were carrying coal. Now, if I can just
figure out what destination 3 is.

10. Frisco gon 84100
11. MP gon 66850
12. MP hopper 59413
13. L&N hopper 65073
14. Lehigh Valley hopper 24613
15. Q ballast hopper 221662
16. Q comp gon 166948
17. NYC gon 711577
18. Q ballast hopper 221725
19. KCS hopper 29107

There were a few UP cars also listed as carrying coal. Note that these are
all westbound except for NYC 711577. Also I expect to uncover empties coming
back east. BTW, seldom are more than 2 coal carrying cars in the same train.

Another perhaps oddity is a train of empties westbound consisting entirely of
UP cars and Sinclair tank cars. Sinclair was/is about 7 miles east of
Rawlins. I assume the train probably dropped the 60 or so Sinclair cars
there.

Mike Brock...more to come >>


Re: random questions

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

Richard - I've never heard of any problem of getting models from Sunshine.
In general with cast resin there is not much duplication of effort, so there
is often just one source (or no source).
I have a date of 1944 when "other than wood" (meaning steel, but I guess
they kept the door open for aluminum) for running boards being required on
new cars. Also 1932 when when they first starting accepting non-wood
running boards on a case by case basis. You might want to check out our
timeline at:
http://www.union.rpi.edu/railroad/Time-line.html

- John

----- Original Message -----
From: <ThisIsR@aol.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 12:56 PM
Subject: [STMFC] random questions


Good afternoon:
Is there a problem in getting models from Sunshine Models? I've
heard
it mentioned on other lists that it takes a very loonnggg time to receive
models or
catalogs from this company.
Is there a particular detail parts company that is better at building
steam-era
super detail parts? More variety?
At what point did carbuilders and railroads switch from wooden
roofwalks
to
steel roofwalks?
Thank you for your time!
Richard Stallworth

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
STMFC-unsubscribe@egroups.com



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Re: UP Frt Conductor Book Data...a quick look

Jeff Aley - GCD PE <jaley@...>
 

On Mar 1, 11:48am, Mike Brock wrote:
Subject: [STMFC] UP Frt Conductor Book Data...a quick look
I have not dertimined destination completely. LA-4 and SP-1 are
mentioned frequently, as are numbers 2,3,5, & 6. The ore string of cars is
going to Van 6. These destinations are not stations since 3 would be that
for Omaha and the referenced train is westbound.

Espee train numbers???

Here's a list of coal or coke carrying cars included in trains I've
checked...about half of the 35 listed: Loads are coal unless indicated.

1. Pennsy gon G-29 359601
2. B&O gon 261628
3. MP gon 72363
4. Lackawanna gon 66057
5. NYC gon 631040 coke
6. Frisco hopper 86496 coke
7. MKT gon 41492
8. N&W gon 91097
9. N&W gon 100350 pitch
10. Frisco gon 84100
11. MP gon 66850
12. MP hopper 59413
13. L&N hopper 65073
14. Lehigh Valley hopper 24613
15. Q ballast hopper 221662
16. Q comp gon 166948
17. NYC gon 711577
18. Q ballast hopper 221725
19. KCS hopper 29107

Twelve of the 19 cars were gons, including some from eastern
roads. I find this surprising even though I've been known to chant the
Henrickson mantra of the West: "more gons than hoppers...more gons than
hoppers".

Any helium cars? You've got 7 hoppers, and we all know that
Richard claims there were more helium cars than hoppers (in the West, at
least).


Another perhaps oddity is a train of empties westbound consisting
entirely of UP cars and Sinclair tank cars. Sinclair was/is about 7 miles
east of Rawlins. I assume the train probably dropped the 60 or so Sinclair
cars there.

Yep. This correlates pretty well with a Frt. Conductor's Train Book that
I have. Mine's from ca. 1960 and most of the trains are locals to
Sinclair. Almost all of the cars are tanks, with a significant portion UP
(for on-line fuel, I suppose).

Regards,

-Jeff

--
Jeff Aley, Development Engineer jaley@pcocd2.intel.com
Graphics Components Division
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533


UP Frt Conductor Book Data...a quick look

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

A quick look at the UP Freight conductor's book that I recently acquired...thanks to Jeff Aley bringing it to my attention...shows some interesting stuff. First, the book contains data on 35 UP trains between Laramie and Rawlins [ to the west ], WY, over about a month and a half...Mar 6 to April 22, 1949.

As I have always maintained, every frt car...or one of its class...crossed Sherman Hill at least once in its life. This book seems to prove that out. The variety of RRs is impressive...not unexpected for a trunk line like UP in Wyoming I suppose.

One train of particular interest is one carrying only ore. I cannot actually tell if the ore carrying cars are in only one train or part of another...given the structure of the book. Anyhow, the ore carrying cars are all box cars. Perhaps most surprising is that none are UP. Roads included are SLSF, NH [ NH?], IC, NYC, CN, NP, L&N, Milw, MP, ATSF, Q, RI, NKP, KCS, CNW, SAL, and Sou and that's from a string of only 26 cars.

I have not dertimined destination completely. LA-4 and SP-1 are mentioned frequently, as are numbers 2,3,5, & 6. The ore string of cars is going to Van 6. These destinations are not stations since 3 would be that for Omaha and the referenced train is westbound.

Commodities are listed fairly well. For instance there are loads of wine, oil, and gasoline and associated tank cars. One strange load is milk in ATSF 6970...a box car.

Naturally I had to check for the elusive N&W hopper....I can feel the crowd grow tense, sudden silence in anticipation.

Here's a list of coal or coke carrying cars included in trains I've checked...about half of the 35 listed: Loads are coal unless indicated.

1. Pennsy gon G-29 359601
2. B&O gon 261628
3. MP gon 72363
4. Lackawanna gon 66057
5. NYC gon 631040 coke
6. Frisco hopper 86496 coke
7. MKT gon 41492

***** WARNING WARNING WARNING
8. N&W gon 91097
9. N&W gon 100350 pitch

Does this qualify me to win the cash prize...or bounty...offered [ or should be offered ] by certain westcoast frt car aficionados ? Well, technically, no. These are not hoppers. But, they were carrying coal. Now, if I can just figure out what destination 3 is.

10. Frisco gon 84100
11. MP gon 66850
12. MP hopper 59413
13. L&N hopper 65073
14. Lehigh Valley hopper 24613
15. Q ballast hopper 221662
16. Q comp gon 166948
17. NYC gon 711577
18. Q ballast hopper 221725
19. KCS hopper 29107

There were a few UP cars also listed as carrying coal. Note that these are all westbound except for NYC 711577. Also I expect to uncover empties coming back east. BTW, seldom are more than 2 coal carrying cars in the same train.

Another perhaps oddity is a train of empties westbound consisting entirely of UP cars and Sinclair tank cars. Sinclair was/is about 7 miles east of Rawlins. I assume the train probably dropped the 60 or so Sinclair cars there.

Mike Brock...more to come


random questions

ThisIsR@...
 

Good afternoon:
Is there a problem in getting models from Sunshine Models? I've heard
it mentioned on other lists that it takes a very loonnggg time to receive
models or
catalogs from this company.
Is there a particular detail parts company that is better at building
steam-era
super detail parts? More variety?
At what point did carbuilders and railroads switch from wooden roofwalks
to
steel roofwalks?
Thank you for your time!
Richard Stallworth


Re: PRR turtleback cars

Benjamin Hom <bhom3@...>
 

Richard Stallworth asked:

"I have been told that PRR x31f(?) class boxcars-the turtlebacks never left
home rails. Is this true?"

No (by the way, X31f is the correct class). Here's another piece of
photographic evidence:

PRR 81417 (Ft. Worth, TX, 6/17/1962, Dick Kuelbs photo, RMJ Mar 95, p 23)

These cars also made their way to several second-hand owners in the 1960s as
well:

T-SE 324 (Craig Bossler photo, RMJ Mar 95, p 16)
AD&N 1805 (Richard Burg collection, RMJ Mar 95, p 23)


Ben Hom


Re: PRR turtleback cars

Dave & Libby Nelson <muskoka@...>
 

What happened to them after the war? Thank you.
Released to general service: Per a conductors book in my posession, on
3/16/1948, PRR 81840 carried a load of common nails over Sherman Hill on
it's way to Portland Ore.

Dave Nelson


Re: PRR turtleback cars

Bill Schneider <branch@...>
 

I would highly doubt that they were confined to PRR rails after the war
since there's an 1947 photo that includes the end of one of these cars
being switched in Mayfield yard (Scranton) on the O&W in Morning Sun's
O&W book. This was reason enough for me to buy one of the Bowser cars! :>)

Bill Schneider

ThisIsR@aol.com wrote:

Good afternoon:
I have been told that PRR x31f(?) class boxcars-the turtlebacks
never
left home
rails. Is this true? I was told they were designed for hauling jeeps
during
WW2.
What happened to them after the war? Thank you.
Richard Stallworth

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Re: Speaking of private car rosters

Dave & Libby Nelson <muskoka@...>
 

-----Original Message-----
From: thompson@signaturepress.com [mailto:thompson@signaturepress.com]
Well, remember, Dave, all the OTHER carriers would have to agree, or
convince the ICC to permit it.
Was that the case with the PFE? GATX?

I don't know that it was a FAT payment, but
if so, the ICC would certainly have had an input.
Did the ICC have any regulatory authority over private car lines? Perhaps
the dollar value of the mileage charge, but I thought nothing else (wasn't
it the FRA who regulated safety features of any cars, public or private?).

But I don't think this is something you can reason through. It is
probably largely history, as Garth Groff observed, and I would concur.
Well, yeah, it is safe to say R.R. mgmt was, ahem, less than visionary. I'm
trying to understand if the reasoning in this particular issue was
financial, legal, or intellectual, especially by the 50's as more and more
specialized cars came into service and car pools can into use. Sounds like
both you and Garth lean towards the later - correct?

Dave Nelson


Re: Speaking of private car rosters

thompson@...
 

But wouldn't that fat mileage payment create an opportunity for the
regulated carrier to: a) avoid a capital investment on its books and the
attendant approval process and b) provide the shareholders equal to or
greater return (the greater return comes from non owning roads paying that
mileage fee)? Or were the milage fees and per diem payments roughly
equivalent?
Well, remember, Dave, all the OTHER carriers would have to agree, or
convince the ICC to permit it. I don't know that it was a FAT payment, but
if so, the ICC would certainly have had an input.
But I don't think this is something you can reason through. It is
probably largely history, as Garth Groff observed, and I would concur.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history


Re: When the X's were added

Larry King <ab8180@...>
 

2-28-01

In 1911,MDT had a series of 40' reefers with MDTX initials; I think the
number series was MDTX 30000 and up. From a picture in a 1911 Equip.
Register the car looked to be the same design as in the 1919
Cyc(40'lgh.,Bettendorf u'frame,8- hinge doors 5' wide etc).In 1913 all MDT
cars were transferred to NYC&HR and LS&MS reporting marks. When they went
back to using the MDT marks in about 1924,the X was no longer used.

LR King


PRR turtleback cars

ThisIsR@...
 

Good afternoon:
I have been told that PRR x31f(?) class boxcars-the turtlebacks never
left home
rails. Is this true? I was told they were designed for hauling jeeps during
WW2.
What happened to them after the war? Thank you.
Richard Stallworth


Re: Speaking of private car rosters

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Dave,

I suspect we have economics and accidents of history to explain why tank
cars and reefers (and to a lesser extent stock cars) were privately
owned, but other car types were not.

Most of these cars were (a) specialized, especially when fitted up for a
particular industry or commodity, and (b) fairly low use compared to
general freight cars. IIRC, most railroads were reluctant to invest in
such specialized cars due to the lower dollar return. So much for the
economics. As for history, Armour tried to corner the market on
refrigerators at the turn of the century, and Standard Oil attempted the
same with tank cars. These companies put considerable pressure on the
railroads not to compete, or lose through routing of the monopoly-owned
special cars. This kept railroads out of the game, and allowed other
private players (or railroad-owned consortiums) to move into this niche
when Armour and Standard Oil lost their monopolies.

As for other car types, consider that Trailer Train, Railbox, and
Railgon more or less did/do offer "private" fleets of cars for hire
today. Of course, these ventures are owned by participating railroads,
but the companies are managed independently.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Dave & Libby Nelson wrote:


As it appears it was a smart move to form all of the reefer and tank car
companies, why didn't other car types and commodities get addressed this way
too? Fer instance, 50' boxcars with auto racks (or in later years, the
autorack cars). Or plain jane coal hoppers running between Gary Indiana and
the Pocohontas coal belts? Or any covered hopper? Or depressed flatcar?
Superficially at least, it appears these situations are not far off of
reefers from California -- loaded one way and returned empty.

So why wasn't it done?
-----------------------------------
Dave Nelson

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Re: Speaking of private car rosters

Dave & Libby Nelson <muskoka@...>
 

-----Original Message-----
From: thompson@signaturepress.com [mailto:thompson@signaturepress.com]
Dave Nelson asks:
As it appears it was a smart move to form all of the reefer and tank car
companies, why didn't other car types and commodities get
addressed this way
too?
Dave, I think the specialized nature of tank car and reefer traffic had
inhibited railroads from wanting to own very big fleets, so private owners
tended to do the job, and got the attractive boost of the mileage payments
instead of per diem. But this didn't and doesn't apply to "plain jane coal
hoppers" or most any other car type.
But wouldn't that fat mileage payment create an opportunity for the
regulated carrier to: a) avoid a capital investment on its books and the
attendant approval process and b) provide the shareholders equal to or
greater return (the greater return comes from non owning roads paying that
mileage fee)? Or were the milage fees and per diem payments roughly
equivalent?

Dave Nelson


Re: Speaking of private car rosters

thompson@...
 

Dave Nelson asks:
As it appears it was a smart move to form all of the reefer and tank car
companies, why didn't other car types and commodities get addressed this way
too? Fer instance, 50' boxcars with auto racks (or in later years, the
autorack cars). Or plain jane coal hoppers running between Gary Indiana and
the Pocohontas coal belts? Or any covered hopper? Or depressed flatcar?
Superficially at least, it appears these situations are not far off of
reefers from California -- loaded one way and returned empty.
So why wasn't it done?
Dave, I think the specialized nature of tank car and reefer traffic had
inhibited railroads from wanting to own very big fleets, so private owners
tended to do the job, and got the attractive boost of the mileage payments
instead of per diem. But this didn't and doesn't apply to "plain jane coal
hoppers" or most any other car type.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history

187841 - 187860 of 188605