Date   

SP Freight Cars, Vol. 5

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Signature Press is proud to announce that in about one month's
time, the concluding volume in the series, SP Freight Cars, Volume 5,
will be released. The car types included are hoppers, covered hoppers,
and tank cars.
The book is 448 pages in size, contains 578 photographs (77 in
color) and over 100 drawings. Its extensive rosters and survival
tables, builder photos, and in-service photos of virtually every car
class covered make it unusually authoritative and complete.
The four previous volumes, covering gondolas and stock cars
(Volume 1), cabooses (Volume 2), automobile cars and flat cars (Volume
3) and box cars (Volume 4), remain in print and are available direct
from the publisher. For more information on all these books, please
visit our web site (URL below).
Asked about this series, freight car historian Richard
Hendrickson had this comment: "This completes Tony Thompson’s series of
five books on the freight cars of the Southern Pacific. Altogether, the
series is by far the most comprehensive and elaborately documented
study of a single railroad’s freight car fleet ever published. For
devotees and modelers of the Southern Pacific it is an essential
reference, and those who are interested in railroad rolling stock
generally will also find it interesting and informative."

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: What HO truck(s) do we STMFC'ers want?

Jason Hill
 

Hi Richard, Brian, et al,
I'd vote for the 6-spring version also. I found that my Atlas 70t
ballast hart-hopper have that truck that we've long been waiting for.
But I've not tried to get more of them individually yet. If TMW
makes them I would definitely "spring" for many of them for all my
Athearn 65' gonds, Erie 52', and many other cars that I have to build
or update with those more accurate trucks.

Best Regards,
Jason Hill
Modeling Tehachapi Pass in 1952

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
wrote:

On Aug 21, 2008, at 3:09 PM, John Hile wrote:

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Andy Carlson <midcentury@> wrote:

Knowing that we have an in-house HO truck manufacturer
(Brian Leppert) on this list, I suggest that we use
this forum to influence Brian on the trucks we feel
needed.

Any suggestions?
Put me down for 70-ton trucks in several versions...

These: http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie-f8000b.jpg

These: http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie10325b.jpg

Or these: http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/dlw18602ab.jpg


















My strong preference would be for those on the Erie gon. The trucks
on the flat car were self-aligning spring-plankless, and we have
several of those in HO scale already (granted, they're supposed to be
fifty ton trucks, but on several of them the journal boxes are
sufficiently oversize that they're closer in appearance to 70 ton
trucks anyway). The trucks on the Lackawanna covered hopper were ASF
A-3s, and we have already have relatively good A-3s in HO; again,
they're supposed to be fifty ton trucks, but the difference in
journal box size isn't very obvious. The trucks on the Erie gondola
were 70 ton self-aligning spring-plankless double truss with six
springs on each side, three across facing outward, and that's a
rather common design which we've never had in HO. Brian?

Richard Hendrickson



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Per Diem

Bruce Smith
 

On Thu, August 21, 2008 5:14 am, Ed Schleyer wrote:
One of the smallest railroads paid the MOST per diem, The Long Island
Rail Road was a dead end railroad that owned NO interchangable cars.

Ed Schleyer
Ed,

That's a pretty definitive statement. I think you probably meant that the
LI did not own any interchangable FREIGHT cars (since of course, their
passenger cars did interchange). However, my 1943 ORER shows 80 class GR
composite gondolas. So, while the interchange fleet was not big, it did
exist.

Regards
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: What HO truck(s) do we STMFC'ers want?

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Aug 21, 2008, at 3:09 PM, John Hile wrote:

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:

Knowing that we have an in-house HO truck manufacturer
(Brian Leppert) on this list, I suggest that we use
this forum to influence Brian on the trucks we feel
needed.

Any suggestions?
Put me down for 70-ton trucks in several versions...

These: http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie-f8000b.jpg

These: http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie10325b.jpg

Or these: http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/dlw18602ab.jpg


















My strong preference would be for those on the Erie gon. The trucks
on the flat car were self-aligning spring-plankless, and we have
several of those in HO scale already (granted, they're supposed to be
fifty ton trucks, but on several of them the journal boxes are
sufficiently oversize that they're closer in appearance to 70 ton
trucks anyway). The trucks on the Lackawanna covered hopper were ASF
A-3s, and we have already have relatively good A-3s in HO; again,
they're supposed to be fifty ton trucks, but the difference in
journal box size isn't very obvious. The trucks on the Erie gondola
were 70 ton self-aligning spring-plankless double truss with six
springs on each side, three across facing outward, and that's a
rather common design which we've never had in HO. Brian?

Richard Hendrickson


Re: ADMIN: Re: Re: Freight car distribution

armprem
 

Dennis,I am in the process of a thorough study for a whole month for the
road that I am modeling.I am fortunate enough to have a relatively large
collection of wheel reports covering a period from 1942 to 1953.I personally
feel that the size and location of the road detirmines the traffic
pattern.We should also consider the time of the year and the size of the
sample being used.The proximity to Canada also must be considered in the
mix.Train # 9 has more Canadian box cars than any of the top 4 or 5 American
roads in the number of cars.Looking at loads actually carried show more
agricultural oriented products than industrial.Obviously the mix would not
be the same for a road in a heavily industrial area.While there have been
suggested other models for the mix,I choose to buy cars that I can verify
having been on the road for the period.A wheel report in one hand and an
ORER in the other provide me with the information I need before I make a
purchase Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Storzek" <destorzek@mchsi.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 4:13 PM
Subject: ADMIN: Re: [STMFC] Re: Freight car distribution


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Brock" <brockm@...> wrote:

Actually I said:

"The model that I prefer is a modified Nelson/Gilbert model which
states
that
RRs with "significant interchange" should have from 2 to 2.5 times the
national %."
I'm sure this is the key. I'm sure that after one applies a whole
bunch of "weighting factors" that account for proximity of other
roads, preferred interchange partners, preferred routes for "rollers",
etc, the little bit of traffic that's left will look quite similar to
the Gilbert / Nelson proportions. The problem is, those weighting
factors are going to be different for every stretch of railroad one
could possibly model. As examples, compare the Yosemite Valley, which
had almost no cars of its own, with the similar sized Greater Winnipeg
Water Works District Railway, which had, as far as I know, no reason
to handle a foreign car, since the line basically functioned as a
conduit to bring gravel from pits along the line into the city for use
by the local construction industry.

I would suspect that the closest to the "average" stretch of railroad
would be the NKP or Wabash; railroads smack dab in the middle of the
country that handled the largest proportion of overhead traffic vs.
loads originating and terminating on line. If one had good train
consists for those lines, perhaps that would be the place to start
trying to determine correction factors for proximity and connections
of the "average" railroad.

But why bother? Data for the average railroad is only going to be good
for someone who freelances, but even then you run into the problem
that if you model the Maumee, what the heck is the Wabash hauling if
all that traffic is on the Maumee? Even if you get what was actually
happening right, you then have to modify it again to take into account
the new player you added.

I personally think that time would be better spent studying the
prototype one is trying to model, identifying the consists of the
trains as best one can from consists, interchange statistics, photos,
movies, whatever is available, noting not only the overall car mix,
but specific instances of heavy concentrations, because those heavy
concentrations aren't random events, they MEAN something, and modeling
them helps to capture the feel of the prototype.

Dennis



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





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2:31 PM


Re: A logical look at Associated RR's Regarding Frt Car Distribution

Tim O'Connor
 

Mike

That's a lot of betting, doubts, and exclamatory statements for one
paragraph. Since when does a "shorter route" have much to do with
anything related to car routing? Freight cars don't travel according to
the "shortest route" logic -- they return by the way they came, unless
they don't, which in a great many cases, is what happens. I'm very
confident that UP carried SP box cars west over Sherman Hill to
all kinds of destinations not on the SP. And likewise SP forwarded
UP box cars to the Rio Grande for delivery to who knows where?
And what does it mean anyway?

You have the advantage of modeling Sherman Hill, basically a
pure east-west traffic pattern that prevailed for hundreds of miles
to the west, and relatively little north-south activity in that area. But
to extrapolate from Sherman Hill to Columbus Ohio, practically in
the epicenter of a couple of dozen overlapping railroads radiating
in every direction from scores of junction points and interchanges
within a 100 mile radius?? Are you kidding? I'm never quite sure as
you seem to enjoy baiting us ... and you got me to rise to the occasion.

But I'm still not sure what you were driving at, unless you're trying to
say that on Sherman Hill, SP box cars were proportionally more
common than other railroads not so closely affiliated with the UP.
And to that, I agree, since I've said before that the Overland Route
was practically a joint operation of the two railroads during this era.
But other than the percentages, I doubt there are many useful
generalizations anyone can make about what those box cars were
doing (Empty? Loaded? Eastbound? Westbound? Bridge traffic?
Received to terminate online? Originated to end offline?)

Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Mike Brock" <brockm@brevard.net>

I'm going to bet that they aren't going back down southwest to southern
Cal on UP nor back west and up north on UP to the north Pacific. There
are much shorter routes. I also doubt that many will transfer to the
D&RGW. Westbound UP box cars might, indeed, travel on UP tracks
south to S. Cal or to ID, OR and Wash. So, given the above, why would
we doubt that SP box cars should show up on the UP WY trunk more than
their national %?


Re: ADMIN: Re: Re: Freight car distribution

Stokes John
 

Amen, Richard and Dennis. What I was trying to say all along. This should satisfy everyone who has a dog in this hunt, recognizing each perspective as part of the whole, but not THE whole, makes sense, but probably won't.

John Stokes
Bellevue, WA



To: STMFC@yahoogroups.comFrom: rhendrickson@opendoor.comDate: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 15:27:11 -0700Subject: Re: ADMIN: Re: [STMFC] Re: Freight car distribution




On Aug 21, 2008, at 1:13 PM, Dennis Storzek wrote:> [snip]> I personally think that time would be better spent studying the> prototype one is trying to model, identifying the consists of the> trains as best one can from consists, interchange statistics, photos,> movies, whatever is available, noting not only the overall car mix,> but specific instances of heavy concentrations, because those heavy> concentrations aren't random events, they MEAN something, and modeling> them helps to capture the feel of the prototype.>Bang on, Dennis. Thank you for stating so succinctly the case for researching the intended prototype intensively rather than getting absorbed in abstract statistics. Not to say that the statistics aren't enlightening, and that we shouldn't be grateful to those whose research made them available. However, they're not especially useful to a modeler, and may even be seriously misleading, until interpreted in the light of everything else that can be learned about the traffic on a particular RR at a particular place and time. I (and, I suspect, many others on this list) would be relieved if this turned out to be the last word on this subject, though I suspect that's too much to hope for.Richard Hendrickson


Re: ADMIN: Re: Re: Freight car distribution

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Aug 21, 2008, at 1:13 PM, Dennis Storzek wrote:

[snip]
I personally think that time would be better spent studying the
prototype one is trying to model, identifying the consists of the
trains as best one can from consists, interchange statistics, photos,
movies, whatever is available, noting not only the overall car mix,
but specific instances of heavy concentrations, because those heavy
concentrations aren't random events, they MEAN something, and modeling
them helps to capture the feel of the prototype.








Bang on, Dennis. Thank you for stating so succinctly the case for
researching the intended prototype intensively rather than getting
absorbed in abstract statistics. Not to say that the statistics
aren't enlightening, and that we shouldn't be grateful to those whose
research made them available. However, they're not especially useful
to a modeler, and may even be seriously misleading, until interpreted
in the light of everything else that can be learned about the traffic
on a particular RR at a particular place and time. I (and, I
suspect, many others on this list) would be relieved if this turned
out to be the last word on this subject, though I suspect that's too
much to hope for.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: What HO truck(s) do we STMFC'ers want?

John Hile <john66h@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:

Knowing that we have an in-house HO truck manufacturer
(Brian Leppert) on this list, I suggest that we use
this forum to influence Brian on the trucks we feel
needed.

Any suggestions?


Put me down for 70-ton trucks in several versions...

These: http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie-f8000b.jpg

These: http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie10325b.jpg

Or these: http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/dlw18602ab.jpg


John Hile
Blacksburg, VA


Re: Freight car distribution YV per diem

Larry Jackman <Ljack70117@...>
 

Not really. The other roads would put their interchange on the track. The Un Pac would pull their cars off and put ours on the track.
I remember one night we had more cars than the interchange would hold for the Mop. So our engine put all he could and filled the track then left the rest of them coupled on and left them on our track. The next morning the Mop pulled the track and the extra cars came along. The Mop crew turn in time slips for switching Un Pac track and that day they got double pay. The next day there was a hot memo to our crew about it and it was never done again.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@comcast.net

On Aug 21, 2008, at 1:20 PM, Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton wrote:

Posted by: "Larry Jackman"

When I was on the Un Pac at Salina Ks the first thing the 10:30
yard engine did was grab the Cars for the Mop, RI and John Santa FE
and make a run to get then on the Interchanges BEFOR 11:59 PM. If he
did not get them there by 11:59 we paid another day of Per Diem.<

And I am sure the folks on the other side woudl try to find ways to
hold him outside the interchange until 12.01 to avoid the charges...

Aidrian

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



ADMIN: Re: Re: Freight car distribution

laramielarry <ostresh@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Brock" <brockm@...> wrote:

Laramie Larry writes: (A friend of mine who has lived in Laramie
all his life - in particular the 1940s and 50s - describes these
cars as a "transfer run".)"

Meaning what? While I do not know for certain the location, the
train is a
4000 class [ Big Boy ] and a water tank is visible in 1953. The
locomotive
and date confines the train to the area between Green River and
Cheyenne. My
guess is that the location is Buford [ that vacation spa on the
east side of
Sherman Hill ]. I do not know the direction of travel.
Incidentally, the
first car is, I believe, a covered hopper followed by 36 reefers
followed by
the 36 SP box cars with a few others.> Mike Brock
I'm pretty certain the location is Speer and the train pulled by 4005
is westbound on track 3, which would have brought it through
Laramie. Incidentally, the water tower and some of the white
buildings are still there.

I'll ask my friend to define "transfer run" the next time I see him.

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming


ADMIN: Re: Re: Freight car distribution

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Brock" <brockm@...> wrote:

Actually I said:

"The model that I prefer is a modified Nelson/Gilbert model which
states
that
RRs with "significant interchange" should have from 2 to 2.5 times the
national %."
I'm sure this is the key… I'm sure that after one applies a whole
bunch of "weighting factors" that account for proximity of other
roads, preferred interchange partners, preferred routes for "rollers",
etc, the little bit of traffic that's left will look quite similar to
the Gilbert / Nelson proportions. The problem is, those weighting
factors are going to be different for every stretch of railroad one
could possibly model. As examples, compare the Yosemite Valley, which
had almost no cars of its own, with the similar sized Greater Winnipeg
Water Works District Railway, which had, as far as I know, no reason
to handle a foreign car, since the line basically functioned as a
conduit to bring gravel from pits along the line into the city for use
by the local construction industry.

I would suspect that the closest to the "average" stretch of railroad
would be the NKP or Wabash; railroads smack dab in the middle of the
country that handled the largest proportion of overhead traffic vs.
loads originating and terminating on line. If one had good train
consists for those lines, perhaps that would be the place to start
trying to determine correction factors for proximity and connections
of the "average" railroad.

But why bother? Data for the average railroad is only going to be good
for someone who freelances, but even then you run into the problem
that if you model the Maumee, what the heck is the Wabash hauling if
all that traffic is on the Maumee? Even if you get what was actually
happening right, you then have to modify it again to take into account
the new player you added.

I personally think that time would be better spent studying the
prototype one is trying to model, identifying the consists of the
trains as best one can from consists, interchange statistics, photos,
movies, whatever is available, noting not only the overall car mix,
but specific instances of heavy concentrations, because those heavy
concentrations aren't random events, they MEAN something, and modeling
them helps to capture the feel of the prototype.

Dennis


Re: ORER inaccuracy

Walter M. Clark
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Rupert & Maureen" <gamlenz@...> wrote:
<snip>That is not to say that new groups of cars did not appear in print
prior to actually being built but, as stated by Malcolm Laughlin -

"..... It was mandatory for a car in revenue service to be
listed in the
ORER. In the absence of a listing, there would be cases in which a rate
using the car could not be determined...... Railroads listed a car
when it
was known that it might be put into service. ....."

In the case of CB&Q, I often found a new listing of a group of cars
without
any quantity being shown to indicate that they had actually been
built and,
in most cases, a quantity appeared by the next issue that I
collected (about
1 per calendar year) but sometimes the group of cars never materialised
under those numbers.<snip the rest of Rupert's comment>

Regards

Rupert Gamlen
Auckland NZ
<snip the rest of the message>
Rupert, the SP was another road that listed a group of cars before
arrival, an instance of listing a group of box cars that never did
appear. Tony's SP Freight Cars, Volume 4 Box Cars tells of a 500 car
group of 50 ft. 50 ton all steel pre-WWII cars, class B-50-22, number
series 81490-81989, that were bought in 1941 and built in October and
November 1941. Another 500 of the same car were ordered in the June
30, 1941 order, numbers 97520-98119, but never built, apparently due
to restrictions on use of strategic materials. SP kept those cars
listed in the ORER until October 1943, quoting Tony "presumably
reflecting a continuing desire by SP to receive the cars."

Time stopped in November 1941
Walter M. Clark
Pullman, Washington, USA


A logical look at Associated RR's Regarding Frt Car Distribution

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Before we leave this fascinating[?] look into frt car distributions, perhaps it's time for a brief and casual look at the logic with associated RR interchanges.

The Nelson/Gilbert theory says that the home road should be represented much higher than its % of the national fleet. Let's say 3 times the national number. The data that Tim Gilbert used includes that of 30 or so trains from the region Laramie-Green River WY in 1947. THe actual number was 87 UP box cars out of 777 total box cars or 11%. The UP national % in 1947 was 3.6% so 3 works pretty well. If you look at a RR map you'll notice that there's a junction at Granger, WY, where the UP goes to Pocatello, ID, and the Pacific Northwest. Other than that, UP tracks join SP at Ogden. There is a junction there with D&RGW as well. According to the theory, UP trains working east from Ogden should contain 11%-3.6%=7.4% more box cars than the national %. SP trains working west from Ogden should exhibit about the same. So...where do all the UP and SP box cars go? Where'd they come from? IOW, if trains containing about 3 times the national % of SP box cars are proceeding east on SP tracks west of Ogden I'm going to bet that they aren't going back down southwest to southern Cal on UP nor back west and up north on UP to the north Pacific. There are much shorter routes. I also doubt that many will transfer to the D&RGW. Westbound UP box cars might, indeed, travel on UP tracks south to S. Cal or to ID, OR and Wash. So, given the above, why would we doubt that SP box cars should show up on the UP WY trunk more than their national %?

There are similar locations where this might occur. For example, if the home road % rules, what about N&W and Southern between Knoxville, TN and Roanoke, N&W/NYC between points south of Columbus, OH and points north. For that matter, there must be many similar situations...such as GN/CB&Q or C&NW and the same for NP.

Mike Brock


Re: Per Diem and The D&H

armprem
 

Matt,You could also add the CV/GT/CN ,Rutland and the NJ at Rouses
Point.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew Forsyth" <mforsyth127@yahoo.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 11:46 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Per Diem and The D&H


Group,

I don't have any specifics on this, i.e. number of cars, amount of money
paid, but a classic example here in the northeast, of a railroad that did
their best to pay-out as little in per diem as possible was the Delaware and
Hudson (The D&H).

As a railroad, The D&H started life as an anthracite coal hauler, as did
many of the roads in the northeast (Reading, Lackawanna, Lehigh Valley,
etc.), and in the early years, had small-drivered locomotives that were
designed for drag-freight service. In 1940, the company got their first
order of 4-6-6-4 Challengers, and maintained one of the largest fleets of
that type in the U.S., second only to the UP.

Moving from drag-freight to fast-fast freight was a real bane for the
company. And shortly thereafter, the D&H billed themselves as "The Bridge
Line to New England and Canada". Their system was relatively short, with one
end of the line in Binghamton, NY and the other in Rouses Point, NY, on the
NY/Canadian border. They also had trackage rights into Montreal.

Handling a lot of bridge-line traffic meant that at any time, there were a
large number of foreign cars on the road, which could have resulted in a
relatively large per diem pay-out. Using their 4-6-6-4's the D&H was able to
successfully pick up EB interchange traffic in Binghamton, NY, from the
Lackawanna, Erie, and Lehigh Valley, and could then forward that traffic,
over the system in less than 24 hours, in most cases. Handing off cars to
the New York Central and Boston and Albany @ Albany, the Boston and Main @
Mechanicville, NY, the Rutland @ Rutland, VT, and the Canadian Pacific @
Rouses Point, NY. The entire process could also be repeated in the WB
direction, which got the bulk of foreign cars off the road before the stroke
of midnight. That allowed them to pay-out as little per diem as possible.

Matt Forsyth

Modeling Elmira, NY
in "O" Scale in 1951







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Re: The compilation of a 1956 UP Frt Conductor's Book

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Jason Hill writes:

"It would really help in the train symbols were included in this list of data, not just the could of how many of who's cars went by a given point."

You're certainly right about that. Regretfully, UP or conductor Fraley were determined to keep the train symbol a secret. Even the Dispatcher's record of train movements does not seem to include the train symbols. The conductor's book includes the engine # but not the symbol.

"An example of your high numbers of SP cars could be a result of a "tidepool" order or a block of loads going east... you haven't told us which way the cars were moving."

The train with 36 SP box cars is on the video Big Boy Collection. There is no information on the direction. The other trains with unusually high numbers of SP box cars...one with 31 and one with 27 if I recall correctly...were headed east with lumber loads.

Mike Brock


Re: All-time freight car roster (Was Re: ORER inaccuracy)

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Gene Green wrote:
In the course of looking for other material in a warehouse in Chicago I came across two ledger books, one was for the M&StL, the other the CGW. The M&StL book was entitled "Record of M.& St. L. and Iowa Central Equipment on Hand August 1, 1888 and Acquired Subsequent Thereto." The CGW book also started at August 1, 1888.
Has anyone found something similar for any other railroads?
For SP Pacific Lines, the 1891 renumbering book (a printed book) includes a superb snapshot of the roster at the time, including MANY cars which were 25 years old. It's at CSRM.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: ADMIN: Re: Re: Freight car distribution

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Laramie Larry writes:

"Or maybe not: It turns out that the probability of 36 or more cars
is so low that Excel cannot calculate it. For example a 90 boxcar
train with a "mere" 20 or more SP boxcars would occur only once in
every 19.5 billion trains. Conclusion: This train could not have
occurred by chance alone. (A friend of mine who has lived in Laramie
all his life - in particular the 1940s and 50s - describes these cars
as a "transfer run".)"

Meaning what? While I do not know for certain the location, the train is a 4000 class [ Big Boy ] and a water tank is visible in 1953. The locomotive and date confines the train to the area between Green River and Cheyenne. My guess is that the location is Buford [ that vacation spa on the east side of Sherman Hill ]. I do not know the direction of travel. Incidentally, the first car is, I believe, a covered hopper followed by 36 reefers followed by the 36 SP box cars with a few others.

"Suppose that the 4% number is wrong; Tim Gilbert's data lists 4.9% SP-
Pac ownership in 1956".

Except that in 1953 the number should be 4.35% for 1953...assuming halfway between 52's 4.2% and '54's 4.5%.

"Let's be generous and make it 5%. Then a 90
car train would have 20 or more SP boxcars once in every 356 million
trains. (Tim's data are at "4060totalboxcarsUSownership.xls" in the
files section of this list.)

Rather than using the proportion of the national fleet, how about
giving more "weight" to SP cars on the UP because of the "connection"
between the two railroads, or because of nearness or whatever? Let's
say we "weight" the SP cars by a factor of two (Mike Brock suggests a
weight of 1.5)."

Actually I said:

"The model that I prefer is a modified Nelson/Gilbert model which states that
RRs with "significant interchange" should have from 2 to 2.5 times the
national %."

I may have said 1.5 at some point...

"To apply the desired weight, multiply it by the
national proportion: e.g., 2 * 5% = 10%. Using a "probability of
success on each trial" of 10% and a 90 boxcar train we find that
Excel still cannot calculate it because the probability is too low (a
train with "only" 30 or more SP boxcars would occur once every 3
billion trains). Conclusion: No reasonable weighting will reproduce
the train actually observed - we must reject the null hypothesis.
That is, the observed train composition is not the result of chance
alone."

My feeling as well. And, I notice the same thing with trains that are easier to identify...lumber laden eastbounds with 31 SP box cars for example.

Mike Brock


Re: Freight car distribution YV per diem

Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton <smokeandsteam@...>
 

Posted by: "Larry Jackman"

When I was on the Un Pac at Salina Ks the first thing the 10:30
yard engine did was grab the Cars for the Mop, RI and John Santa FE
and make a run to get then on the Interchanges BEFOR 11:59 PM. If he
did not get them there by 11:59 we paid another day of Per Diem.<

And I am sure the folks on the other side woudl try to find ways to
hold him outside the interchange until 12.01 to avoid the charges...

Aidrian


Re: The compilation of a 1956 UP Frt Conductor's Book

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Tim O'Connor writes:

"Mike Brock wrote

PRR: 48
NYC: 45
SP: 43
Milw: 22
Gee, Mike, that's looks like 4 of the top 5 box car
owning railroads are in the... top 5 of your counts
of box cars of non-home road cars."

Yep. Let the cards fall as they may.

"I'd feel better if you could compile the totals for
at least 100 freight trains. Law of averages and all
that kinda stuff..."

I would too. Got any data?

Mike Brock

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