Date   

Re: Per Diem

Gene Green <bierglaeser@...>
 

Wouldn't the per diem be offset by the NYO&W's share of the revenue
for whatever was being shipped?
Gene Green

--- In STMFC@..., Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
wrote:

The Jan., 1953 ORER shows the NYO&W as having 146 cars suitable for
interchange. For an over 400-mile Class One pike, this road must have
had substantial per diem costs. No wonder that they went under in
1957.
Steve Lucas
----------------

The per diem deficit is not necessarily a sign of a weak
railroad. Mopst railroads bought cars to protect their on-line
loading. A well managed primarily terminating road should have a per
diem deficit. If you are a small railroad without ready access to
the capital markets, it might be much cheaper to rent cars than to
own them. Especialy if except for coal you are a terminating
railroad. W eshould remember that in the 50's the railroads that
were buying a lot of cars also were screaming about the per diem rate
being too low to pay for their cost of car ownership. The
terminating roads in the east were probably much better off renting
cars thanif they had had to pay the costs of buying and maintaining
those cars.


Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Speedwitch down?

Mark
 

Brian and Tom, I just went to the site and the homepage showed up.
 
Sincerely, Mark Morgan

--- On Sat, 8/23/08, Tom Madden <tgmadden@...> wrote:

From: Tom Madden <tgmadden@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Speedwitch down?
To: STMFC@...
Date: Saturday, August 23, 2008, 12:19 PM






It does appear to be down, but if you do a Google search on
Speedwitch and then open a cached page, you can access all the
content. I know Ted had a bunch of bad internal links on his web
site, perhaps he's getting those cleaned up.

Tom M.

Working fine from my links page Brian...ISP issues at your end
perhaps?
Regards,
Peter
http://www.freewebs .com/newhavenrai lroad1959/

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, Brian Paul Ehni <behni@> wrote:

Comes up not found!
--
Thanks!

Brian Ehni

















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Per Diem - AAR Home Districts

Richard Brennan <brennan8@...>
 

At 07:00 AM 8/23/2008, Rob Kirkham wrote:
Hi Richard - I'm curious - was there an AAR district shown for the Pacific coast of Canada (around Vancouver B.C. - just north of the border; just north of Bellingham Washington?) If yes, which district was it?
Rob

Nothing that granular: BC was AAR Zone 22 "Western Canada"...
Railroads shown as "Principal Freight Car owners" in Zone 22 were:
CN, CP, GN, MStP&SSM, NP, PGE, SOO

Here are all the AAR Car Service Division "Home Districts" (circa 1960)
United States (using current state abbreviations...)
1 - WA,OR, ID
2 - CA, NV
3 - MT
4 - WY
5 - UT, CO
6 - AZ, NM
7 - ND, SD
8 - NB, KS
9 - OK
10 - TX (including NdeM)
11 - MN, WI, IA
12 - MO
13 - AK, LA
14 - IL
15 - MI, IN, OH
16 - NY, PA, NJ, DE
17 - ME, NH, VT, MA, CT, RI
18 - KY, TN
19 - WV, VA, MD, DC
20 - NC, SC
21 - MS, AL, GA, FL

Canada:
22 - Western Canada (~Sault Ste. Marie, ON west...)
23 - Eastern Canada (~Sault Ste. Marie, ON east...)


--------------------
Richard Brennan - San Leandro CA
--------------------


TRUCK WEAR - was What HO truck(s) do we STMFC'ers want?

William Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Hello Group,

From time to time I have seen comments from the Group regarding truck
wear from operation and I can understand that this is a concern. Worn
trucks could take the fun out of an operating evening.

My question is what amount of operating time/distance are we looking
at that will result in worn trucks?

Almost all of my layouts over my 50-years of running model trains have
been switching layouts. Mostly smaller in size with one exception. The
present layout (HO-scale and currently under construction) will result
in a maximum car movement distance during a typical operating day of
about 46-feet (actual) or a bit less than one scale mile. I do not
believe at this limited operation distance that truck wear would be
considered much of a problem.

I have also operated on larger home layouts and club layouts and do
not recall any steam era freight cars ever being sent to the RIP track
due to worn trucks.

So just how much "mileage" does it take to wear out a scale truck?

Cheers,
-- Bill Keene
Irvine, CA

On Aug 22, 2008, at 8:29 PM, Brian J Carlson wrote:

True, and I used some ECW Dalman's before Brian's came out. However,
the ECW
trucks are stryene and wear out with use. This can be fixed by
delrin axle
point caps. However, Tahoe trucks are better detailed, and one piece
acetal
plastic so if Brian does do a 70 ton truck, I have a ton of P2k gons
that
can use them.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY



Re: Speedwitch down?

Tom Madden <tgmadden@...>
 

It does appear to be down, but if you do a Google search on
Speedwitch and then open a cached page, you can access all the
content. I know Ted had a bunch of bad internal links on his web
site, perhaps he's getting those cleaned up.

Tom M.

Working fine from my links page Brian...ISP issues at your end
perhaps?
Regards,
Peter
http://www.freewebs.com/newhavenrailroad1959/

--- In STMFC@..., Brian Paul Ehni <behni@> wrote:

Comes up not found!
--
Thanks!

Brian Ehni


Re: Speedwitch down?

Peter Ness
 

Working fine from my links page Brian...ISP issues at your end perhaps?
Regards,
Peter
http://www.freewebs.com/newhavenrailroad1959/

--- In STMFC@..., Brian Paul Ehni <behni@...> wrote:

Comes up not found!
--
Thanks!

Brian Ehni



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Speedwitch down?

Brian Paul Ehni <behni@...>
 

Comes up not found!
--
Thanks!

Brian Ehni


Re: Per Diem

Tim O'Connor
 

Think about it -- lots of railroads had per diem deficits.
Imagine the size of the Belt Railway of Chicago's deficit --
they usually had 10,000 or more cars of other railroads on
their property!

Tim O'Connor

One of the smallest railroads paid the MOST per diem, The Long Island
Rail Road was a dead end railroad that owned NO interchangeable cars.

Ed Schleyer

That's not entirely true the Long Island did own a group of hoppers (300 in
series 5000 to 5299) in class GLD. Certanly not many in numbers and they did
get transferred to the PRR, but nonetheless they did have revenue cars.
Greg Martin


ADMIN: Re: Re: Freight car distribution

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Malcolm Laughlin" <mlaughlinnyc@...>
wrote:
CN did a systemwide 8 AM check in the era of STMFC.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., Larry Jackman <Ljack70117@> wrote:

At 6 AM each morning the entire yard was check and recorded on a
special form. Two copies were sent to the accounting department
and
two copies to the car department and one filed in the files where
they were recorded.

This was done on the whole RR and was done on The Un Pac and John
Santa Fe.

It is of my opinion that this was done on every RR
in the good old US of A, So at 6 AM every freight car
in the good old US of A was on record.
I know for certain that it was not done on the NYC, MILW, NS or
B&M.
The UP and ATSF were rather wealthy railroads, from long haul
revenue, and in the 60's were not known for keeping a sharp eye on
costs.

So they not only needed to be known, they were known.
That it was done does not tell us that it was needed. It sounds
like
a want on the part of some official to give the car accounting
department a means for cross checking the data received from
interchange reports and wheel reports. Whether the costs saved by
having that cross reference exceeded the cost of all those yard
clerk
hours is an interesting question.


Re: Per Diem

Tim O'Connor
 

Walt

And my point was that per diem was not even money to pay
down the interest on the bonds needed to buy new freight
cars in the 1950's, much less total ownership costs. So
while NYSW (not the O&W, how did that come up?), generally
any railroad that was a net "borrower" of freight cars of
other railroads was not much admired by companies who felt
they contributed more than their share to the national pool.
This is well documented in railroad annual reports in the
1950's. If the O&W did not buy new cars, then I very much
doubt that 'per diem' deficits was the real problem -- many
railroads had per diem deficits for one reason or another
and had no difficulty with it.

Tim O'Connor

I think Steve's point was that the (bankrupt) O&W owed much, much more
in per diem payments than it could ever hope to receive from its
connections, given the paltry number of O&W cars that could go
off-line. I would venture to say that most of those O&W cars were
hoppers, which would likely stay on line or close to home. And so, the
O&W would have been shoveling per diem money out, while receiving next
to nothing in per diem receipts.

Walt Lankenau


Re: What HO truck(s) do we STMFC'ers want?

Tim O'Connor
 

Bill

Those 'notches' on either side of the spring pack
remind me of Barber S-2. Maybe an earlier Barber?

Tim

I'd like to add this 50 ton truck to the wish list.
It's good for tank cars built in the thirties.
I don't know the manufacturer, Scullin perhaps.
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/acfx/dax309asw.jpg
Later,
Bill Kelly


Re: What HO truck(s) do we STMFC'ers want?

Tim O'Connor
 

I really like the massive look of the trucks on this 65 foot
Erie #15000 gondola, although I don't know what kind they are.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie15000cdb.jpg

Tim O'Connor

Put me down for 70-ton trucks in several versions...

These: http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie-f8000b.jpg
These: http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie10325b.jpg
Or these: http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/dlw18602ab.jpg

My strong preference would be for those on the Erie gon. The trucks
on the flat car were self-aligning spring-plankless, and we have
several of those in HO scale already (granted, they're supposed to be
fifty ton trucks, but on several of them the journal boxes are
sufficiently oversize that they're closer in appearance to 70 ton
trucks anyway). The trucks on the Lackawanna covered hopper were ASF
A-3s, and we have already have relatively good A-3s in HO; again,
they're supposed to be fifty ton trucks, but the difference in
journal box size isn't very obvious. The trucks on the Erie gondola
were 70 ton self-aligning spring-plankless double truss with six
springs on each side, three across facing outward, and that's a
rather common design which we've never had in HO. Brian?

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Per Diem

Robert kirkham
 

Hi Richard - I'm curious - was there an AAR district shown for the Pacific coast of Canada (around Vancouver B.C. - just north of the border; just north of Bellingham Washington?) If yes, which district was it? If not, does anyone know why not?

Rob Kirkham


From: Richard Brennan
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 12:25 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Per Diem


At 11:24 AM 8/22/2008, timboconnor@... wrote:
Per diem in the 1950's was the same for all box cars, and was quite
low -- IIRC less than $3 a day.
In the Simmons-Boardman book "Freight Cars
Rolling" by Lawrence Sagle ©1960, an entire
chapter is devoted to the per diem issue... (Chapter 3, p61-70)

The per diem rate is described as having
started-out at $0.20 per day... and was at $2.88 per day by 1960.
Failure to report added another 15¢ to 60¢ per day depending on delay.

For non- per diem cars, mileage rates of from
0.6¢ to 4¢ per mile were paid, based on car type,
with tanks and reefers at the high end of the scale.

As far as reporting, Sagle describes four report
types, all based on the car waybills:
- Wheel Report - per train
- Interchange Report - cars exchanged between RRs
- Junction Report - foreign cars delivered to
another RR (i.e. passing the per diem buck...)
- Passing Report - ad hoc tracking of car movements

Return loading rules are described as: (in order)
- Return to home road (loaded or empty)
- Loaded in the direction of the home road
- loaded via any route to a destination within,
or in the direction of, the "home district"

An AAR map of the 23 districts from District 1
(WA-OR-ID) to District 23 (Eastern Canada) is
provided, along with several typical forms.

...and I always wondered why railroads had those huge buildings full of clerks!

--------------------
Richard Brennan - San Leandro CA
--------------------


Digest Number 5367

Stan Hall
 

Steam era freight car discussion group. The time period covered will
be from 1900-1960.
Messages In This Digest (8 Messages)
1a.
Re: ORER discrepancy From: George Hollwedel
1b.
Re: ORER discrepancy From: George W Simmons
2.1.
Re: Per Diem From: mcindoefalls
2.2.
Re: Per Diem From: George W Simmons
2.3.
Re: Per Diem From: Steve Lucas
3.1.
Re: What HO truck(s) do we STMFC'ers want? From: finkfam98055
3.2.
Re: What HO truck(s) do we STMFC'ers want? From: Brian J Carlson
3.3.
Re: What HO truck(s) do we STMFC'ers want? From: Brian Leppert
View All Topics | Create New Topic Messages
1a.
Re: ORER discrepancy
Posted by: "George Hollwedel" proto.nscale@... proto.nscale
Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:09 pm (PDT)

Is "uo" US? Is "cay" car?

Prototype N Scale Models (TM)
by George Hollwedel
310 Loma Verde St
Buda, TX 78610-9785
512-796-6883
www.micro-trains.com/sr-0806-hollwedelATSF.php
www.micro-trains.com/hollwedel.php
www.imrcmodels.com/n/sr/html/GHollATSFExpressN.htm

> -------------------
> The impetus was to have accuracy only on the uo side. It
> was necessary that any cay that might handle revenue traffic
> be listed, but not that every car listed be in service, or
> even exist.
>
>
>
> Malcolm Laughlin, Editor
> 617-489-4383
> New England Rail Shipper Directories
> 19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

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Messages in this topic (3)
1b.
Re: ORER discrepancy
Posted by: "George W Simmons" GEORGESIMMONS@... realmopacman
Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:48 pm (PDT)

--- In STMFC@..., George Hollwedel <proto.nscale@...> wrote:
>
> Is "uo" US? Is "cay" car?
>
I would say "uo" was to be "up" as in above the actual number and not
the railroad. And car makes sense in the sentence.

George Simmons
Dry Prong, LA

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Messages in this topic (3)
2.1.
Re: Per Diem
Posted by: "mcindoefalls" mcindoefalls@... mcindoefalls
Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:06 pm (PDT)

I think Steve's point was that the (bankrupt) O&W owed much, much more
in per diem payments than it could ever hope to receive from its
connections, given the paltry number of O&W cars that could go
off-line. I would venture to say that most of those O&W cars were
hoppers, which would likely stay on line or close to home. And so, the
O&W would have been shoveling per diem money out, while receiving next
to nothing in per diem receipts.

Walt Lankenau

--- In STMFC@..., timboconnor@... wrote:
>
> Steve
>
> Per diem in the 1950's was the same for all box cars, and was quite
> low -- IIRC less than $3 a day. Unless the NYSW was a parking lot for
> offline cars, I doubt they suffered from per diem overhead. After
all, if
> they could move a car across the system in 24 hours, they might avoid
> having to pay any per diem at all.
>
> Tim
>
> -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: "Steve Lucas" <stevelucas3@...>
> > The Jan., 1953 ORER shows the NYO&W as having 146 cars suitable for
> > interchange. For an over 400-mile Class One pike, this road must
> > have had substantial per diem costs. No wonder that they went under
> > in 1957.
> >
> > Steve Lucas.
>

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Messages in this topic (33)
2.2.
Re: Per Diem
Posted by: "George W Simmons" GEORGESIMMONS@... realmopacman
Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:49 pm (PDT)

--- In STMFC@..., "mcindoefalls" <mcindoefalls@...> wrote:
>
> I think Steve's point was that the (bankrupt) O&W owed much, much
more
> in per diem payments than it could ever hope to receive from its
> connections, given the paltry number of O&W cars that could go
> off-line. I would venture to say that most of those O&W cars were
> hoppers, which would likely stay on line or close to home.

I checked the 1953 ORER reprint and the Old Woman owned a total of 13
boxcars each with interior length of 36 feet. Also, I wonder about the
speed of trains accross the Old and Weary, would they be able to move
cars at a speed that would preclude per diem payments.

George Simmons
Dry Prong, LA

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Messages in this topic (33)
2.3.
Re: Per Diem
Posted by: "Steve Lucas" stevelucas3@... stevelucas3
Fri Aug 22, 2008 8:25 pm (PDT)

The O&W did have some longhaul freights that ran between
Scranton, PA and Maybrook, NY in less than 16 hours. But any car
terminating on the O&W would have been on the property more than
24'. And I don't recall the O&W originating a lot of tonnage in its
20 years of bankruptcy from 1937-57. They did move some pig iron
south out of Oswego, NY, but it's been suggested that this traffic
did not produce much revenue after per-diem (foreign roads' cars
being used) and terminal expenses.

Other roads might have been able to balance the per diem payments on
foreign cars agianst money owed for their cars, but not the Old
Woman. The O&W did have many strikes aginst it in the later years,
and the per-diem expenses can't have helped its financial position.

Steve Lucas.

(always looking to learn more about the O&W)

In STMFC@..., "George W Simmons" <GEORGESIMMONS@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In STMFC@..., "mcindoefalls" <mcindoefalls@> wrote:
> >
> > I think Steve's point was that the (bankrupt) O&W owed much, much
more
> > in per diem payments than it could ever hope to receive from its
> > connections, given the paltry number of O&W cars that could go
> > off-line. I would venture to say that most of those O&W cars were
> > hoppers, which would likely stay on line or close to home.
>
> I checked the 1953 ORER reprint and the Old Woman owned a total of
13
> boxcars each with interior length of 36 feet. Also, I wonder about
the
> speed of trains accross the Old and Weary, would they be able to
move
> cars at a speed that would preclude per diem payments.
>
> George Simmons
> Dry Prong, LA
>

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Messages in this topic (33)
3.1.
Re: What HO truck(s) do we STMFC'ers want?
Posted by: "finkfam98055" finkfam2@... finkfam98055
Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:41 pm (PDT)

I have not seen anyone mentioned it yet, so I'll remind members that
Eastern Car Works offers 3 different types of 4-wheel, 70-ton HO
trucks. I've used and can recommend their #9064 Bettendorf as
representative of the type. Note that the Eastern Car Works trucks
need careful assembly (with glue) and do not come with wheels. Retail
list price is $3 for a pair. I believe #9064 is the same type as
pictured at the link to the ERIE 10325 gon photo in message 75505
(thanks John Hile).
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie10325b.jpg

Larry Fink
--- In STMFC@..., "John Hile" <john66h@...> wrote:
>
> --- In STMFC@..., "Brian Leppert" <b.leppert@> wrote:
> >
> > I think any properly rendered 70-ton truck in HO will look
distinctly
> > different from 50-ton trucks, especially with that wider bolster,
> and are
> > certainly needed.

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Messages in this topic (27)
3.2.
Re: What HO truck(s) do we STMFC'ers want?
Posted by: "Brian J Carlson" brian@... prrk41361
Fri Aug 22, 2008 8:35 pm (PDT)

True, and I used some ECW Dalman's before Brian's came out. However,
the ECW
trucks are stryene and wear out with use. This can be fixed by delrin
axle
point caps. However, Tahoe trucks are better detailed, and one piece
acetal
plastic so if Brian does do a 70 ton truck, I have a ton of P2k gons
that
can use them.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

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Messages in this topic (27)
3.3.
Re: What HO truck(s) do we STMFC'ers want?
Posted by: "Brian Leppert" b.leppert@... brianleppert
Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:22 am (PDT)

Andy and Jason,

The Atlas truck is a very poor representation of the National C-1 70-
ton truck. If you have Tony's SP Freight Cars, vol.1, Gondolas and
Stock Cars, see page 218 for what the prototype really looks like.

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV

--- In STMFC@..., "Andy Sperandeo" <asperandeo@...>
wrote:
>
> Brian, I think you're on to something with the 70-ton trucks. I
just built a Sunshine NYC
> gondola kit that needed 70-ton trucks with a 3-1-3 spring package.
I used a pair of Atlas
> trucks from a Hart convertible ballast car, adding semi-scale
wheels and Kadee brake shoes.
> However, Atlas doesn't list these as separate parts and they aren't
as nice as your trucks
> anyway.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Andy
>

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Re: What HO truck(s) do we STMFC'ers want?

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

True, and I used some ECW Dalman's before Brian's came out. However, the ECW
trucks are stryene and wear out with use. This can be fixed by delrin axle
point caps. However, Tahoe trucks are better detailed, and one piece acetal
plastic so if Brian does do a 70 ton truck, I have a ton of P2k gons that
can use them.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: Per Diem

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

The O&W did have some longhaul freights that ran between
Scranton, PA and Maybrook, NY in less than 16 hours. But any car
terminating on the O&W would have been on the property more than
24'. And I don't recall the O&W originating a lot of tonnage in its
20 years of bankruptcy from 1937-57. They did move some pig iron
south out of Oswego, NY, but it's been suggested that this traffic
did not produce much revenue after per-diem (foreign roads' cars
being used) and terminal expenses.

Other roads might have been able to balance the per diem payments on
foreign cars agianst money owed for their cars, but not the Old
Woman. The O&W did have many strikes aginst it in the later years,
and the per-diem expenses can't have helped its financial position.

Steve Lucas.

(always looking to learn more about the O&W)

In STMFC@..., "George W Simmons" <GEORGESIMMONS@...>
wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., "mcindoefalls" <mcindoefalls@> wrote:

I think Steve's point was that the (bankrupt) O&W owed much, much
more
in per diem payments than it could ever hope to receive from its
connections, given the paltry number of O&W cars that could go
off-line. I would venture to say that most of those O&W cars were
hoppers, which would likely stay on line or close to home.
I checked the 1953 ORER reprint and the Old Woman owned a total of
13
boxcars each with interior length of 36 feet. Also, I wonder about
the
speed of trains accross the Old and Weary, would they be able to
move
cars at a speed that would preclude per diem payments.

George Simmons
Dry Prong, LA


Re: What HO truck(s) do we STMFC'ers want?

Larry Fink
 

I have not seen anyone mentioned it yet, so I'll remind members that
Eastern Car Works offers 3 different types of 4-wheel, 70-ton HO
trucks. I've used and can recommend their #9064 Bettendorf as
representative of the type. Note that the Eastern Car Works trucks
need careful assembly (with glue) and do not come with wheels. Retail
list price is $3 for a pair. I believe #9064 is the same type as
pictured at the link to the ERIE 10325 gon photo in message 75505
(thanks John Hile).
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie10325b.jpg

Larry Fink
--- In STMFC@..., "John Hile" <john66h@...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., "Brian Leppert" <b.leppert@> wrote:

I think any properly rendered 70-ton truck in HO will look
distinctly
different from 50-ton trucks, especially with that wider bolster,
and are
certainly needed.


Re: Per Diem

George Simmons
 

--- In STMFC@..., "mcindoefalls" <mcindoefalls@...> wrote:

I think Steve's point was that the (bankrupt) O&W owed much, much more
in per diem payments than it could ever hope to receive from its
connections, given the paltry number of O&W cars that could go
off-line. I would venture to say that most of those O&W cars were
hoppers, which would likely stay on line or close to home.
I checked the 1953 ORER reprint and the Old Woman owned a total of 13
boxcars each with interior length of 36 feet. Also, I wonder about the
speed of trains accross the Old and Weary, would they be able to move
cars at a speed that would preclude per diem payments.

George Simmons
Dry Prong, LA


Re: Per Diem

Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
 

The Jan., 1953 ORER shows the NYO&W as having 146 cars suitable for interchange. For an over 400-mile Class One pike, this road must have had substantial per diem costs. No wonder that they went under in 1957.
Steve Lucas
----------------

The per diem deficit is not necessarily a sign of a weak railroad. Mopst railroads bought cars to protect their on-line loading. A well managed primarily terminating road should have a per diem deficit. If you are a small railroad without ready access to the capital markets, it might be much cheaper to rent cars than to own them. Especialy if except for coal you are a terminating railroad. W eshould remember that in the 50's the railroads that were buying a lot of cars also were screaming about the per diem rate being too low to pay for their cost of car ownership. The terminating roads in the east were probably much better off renting cars thanif they had had to pay the costs of buying and maintaining those cars.


Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478


Re: Per Diem

mcindoefalls
 

I think Steve's point was that the (bankrupt) O&W owed much, much more
in per diem payments than it could ever hope to receive from its
connections, given the paltry number of O&W cars that could go
off-line. I would venture to say that most of those O&W cars were
hoppers, which would likely stay on line or close to home. And so, the
O&W would have been shoveling per diem money out, while receiving next
to nothing in per diem receipts.

Walt Lankenau

--- In STMFC@..., timboconnor@... wrote:

Steve

Per diem in the 1950's was the same for all box cars, and was quite
low -- IIRC less than $3 a day. Unless the NYSW was a parking lot for
offline cars, I doubt they suffered from per diem overhead. After
all, if
they could move a car across the system in 24 hours, they might avoid
having to pay any per diem at all.

Tim

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Steve Lucas" <stevelucas3@...>
The Jan., 1953 ORER shows the NYO&W as having 146 cars suitable for
interchange. For an over 400-mile Class One pike, this road must
have had substantial per diem costs. No wonder that they went under
in 1957.

Steve Lucas.

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