Date   

Re: DS/SS split 1938 help needed

al_brown03
 


Road, AAR, Kind, Series, IL, IH, Door, Capy, Qty 1938, Qty 1942
B&O, XM, Box, 195500-196499, 40'5", 8'1", 10'0", 80000, 358, 4
Double-sheathed, class M-15A, blt Mt. Vernon 1915. See instructions
for Westerfield kit (5000 series). In-service photo: PMC 9/84 p119.

BAR, XM, Box, 10000-10399, 36'0", 8'1", 6'0", 80000, 350, NA
Single-sheathed. MRR 3/99 p139.

NOR(CCC&STL), XAB, Box, 3850-4349, 40'6", 8'8", 10'0", 80000, 494,
10

NOR 3893, RMJ 12/89 pp56-58. Double-sheathed, door-and-a-half, blt
ACF 2/24.

GTW, XA, Auto, 584202-584701, 40'6", 10'0", 10'6", 85000, 497, NA
Single-sheathed. Described in Hendrickson, "Focus on Freight Cars vol
1" ["FFC v1"], p25. Blt ca 1930.

IC, XA, Auto, 161001-161500, 40'6", 10'0.5625", 12'0", 80000, 490,
482

Single-sheathed, blt Mt. Vernon 1923. Described in Culotta, "Steam
Era Freight Cars Reference Manual vol 1", p55.

MEC, XM, Box, 32003-32424, 35'10", 8'5", 5'0", 80000, 327, 126
Described as double sheathed: Sweetland and Horsley, "Northern New
England Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment", p 7.

NKP, XM, Box, 25000-29299, 36'0", 8'0", 6'0", 80000, 279, NA
Classic Trains Su/04 p58. Double sheathed.

NP, XAF, Auto, 6000-6999, 50'3", 10'0", 9'10", 100000, 290, NA
Single-sheathed, blt General American 1923. Described in Hendrickson,
FFC v1, p47.

M&O, XM, Box, 7000-7399, 36'0.5", 8'7.75", 5'11", 80000, 388, 81\\
Double-sheathed truss-rod cars like Southern class SU, blt 1923. See
instructions to Westerfield kit 4107.

SOUTHERN, XM, Box, 304991-305799, 36'0", 8'3", 6'0", 80000, 794, NA
Double-sheathed truss-rod cars, class SU. Westerfield kit 4153.

-- hth --
Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


Re: 6 AM yard checks

Allen Rueter
 

Malcolm,
I have a yard book for the Wabash, Martinsburg, MO, 1/1/1958 to 6/5/1959
Cars 'on hand' in the area were recorded, M-F morning, along with the temp., but not weekends or holidays.
The most significant information, gleaned from it has been, they started
storing cars for grain in mid June, some cars were on hand for six weeks or more.

Empty SAL and ACL cars were going back to FL (covered hoppers)

Some one was shipping on RI flats to the local Implement co.

If I remove all duplicates, I have the following boxcar counts
Wab 90 29.5%
NYC 19 6.2%
IC 11 3.6%
PRR 10 3.3%
CBQ 10
9 CNW NP ATSF 2.95%
8 UP SOU 2.6%
7 for L&N GN 2.3%
6 for KCS C&O 1.96%
5 NW CN 1.6%
4 for SLSF SAL RI ERIE B&O CP MP 1.3%
3 for DLW ACL SP SOOL 0.98%
2 for WM T&P SPS NJII MON MKT LV CNJ CGW CG CEI NCStL PLE GBW C&S 0.66%
1 ACY BLE DTI GTW IHB ITC MILW MNS MSTL NH NKP ONT RDG SSW TNO 0.33%

Gons: 9 Wab, 3 MP, 2 CBQ, 1 IC
Stock cars: 6 Wab, 4 SLSF, 3 CBQ, 3 UP/OSL
--
Allen Rueter
StLouis MO

----- Original Message ----
From: Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 6:28:25 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: 6 AM yard checks

8<

It would be interesting to know how many railroads actually did that. I mentioned a few days ago several railroads that I'm pretty sure didn't do full yard checks over the whole railraod..

Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478


Re: Reefer info

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jul 13, 2008, at 4:29 PM, Roger Hinman wrote:

PRKX were Pork & Pollard cars probably delivering feed; they were
quite common in New England';
the DSDX may have been carrying Schlitz beer

Roger Hinman
On Jul 12, 2008, at 9:40 PM, armprem1 wrote:

I am seeking information on the following reefers:SF 1045 ,DSDX
716 ,SDDX 753 ,PSKX 646 ,PRKX , DLW 7030 ,NCGX 3734 ,GREX
102001 ,GPEX












Uh, Roger that's PARK & Pollard (actually, the P. & P. Car Line of
Buffalo, NY); No pork involved, AFAIK. DSDX 716 was probably
carrying beer, as you suggest, though not necessarily Schlitz beer.
If "SF 1045" was actually SFRC 1045, that was a 53' mechanical
reefer. class Rr-66, built by GATC in 1960. SDDX looks like a
misprint (maybe for DSDX 753, a valid number); there are no SDDX
reporting marks shown in any of my ORERs); same for PSKX 646
(possibly PRKX 646, another valid number). DL&W 7030 was one of the
Lackawanna's 7000-7299 series reefers. NCGX 3734 was operated by the
National Refrigerator Car Co. (i.e, MDT, i.e., NYC); I'm not sure
which lessor the reporting marks represented. GREX is also either a
misprint or a mis-copy. The number would work for GAEX 102001,
series 100000-109999, which were 50' General American box cars with
DF loaders.


Richard Hendrickson


Re: 6 AM yard checks

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

I mentioned a few days ago several railroads that I'm pretty sure didn't do full yard checks over the whole railraod..
Originally it was stated much more positively; now you're just "pretty sure." Interesting.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Dan Hall doors

Jim & Lisa Hayes <jimandlisa97225@...>
 

Brian, try Andy Carlson midcentury@.... I've bought Dan Hall doors
from him.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Brian J Carlson
Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 10:35 AM
To: stmfc@...
Subject: [STMFC] Dan Hall doors

Does anyone know where I can get some Dan Hall 7 panel Superior doors, like
Ted C used in his Jan 2008 PS-1 build in RMC?

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: 6 AM yard checks

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

Malcolm, I don't have knowledege of the era in STMFC in this regard,
but I know that yard clerks and train crews to this day go to some
trouble to make sure that car numbers are reported accurately. Such
simple things as crossing the number 7 when writing car numbers so as
to not have it confused with the number 1, and exercising care in
copying numbers down in the first place. This is not to say that
mistakes did not happen, but that they likely were the exception
rather than the rule.

I have a photocopy of a ledger of "grain passing through" a CN
elevator on Lake Huron in the 1940's. I ought to post a few pages
to STMFC, as it shows both the use of US cars for Canadian grain, and
very good penmanship (sadly, now a lost art) for an everyday
document.

Steve Lucas.


wrote:

Depending on what assumptions you make, you can spend 5 to ten
cents a car just doing the check. How does it help finding a lost
car. Take for example a yard with 1000 cars. I'd estimate that's
about 30 to 40 lists. At least a dozen of the car numbers will have
an error either in writing or in legibility. To find a lost car,
does a clerk try to read through all of those lists ? Or are the
lists checked against the waybill rack - more expense -, which works
only for loads and empty special equipment.

I could see that once a week to try to find cars that are really
lost. But daily ? On a whole railroad ? If the clerks are doing
their job so poorly that every day there are enough lost cars to make
the yard check pay for itself, are those same clerks who make a lot
of errors going to find them.

It would be interesting to know how many railroads actually did
that. I mentioned a few days ago several railroads that I'm pretty
sure didn't do full yard checks over the whole railraod..


Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Santa Fe Plug Door Reefers

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Aug 24, 2008, at 12:55 PM, charles slater wrote:


Andy the Rr-47 class cars were built new in 1951 by the West
Wichita shops and did have a diagonal panel roof.
The Rr-49 class cars were rebuilt in 1950 from Rr-5 class wood
cars some of which had already had there original roofs replaced
with Murphy streight panel roofs in the 1930/40's. The cars that
had the streight panel roofs at the time they were rebuilt into
Rr-49 cars kept them, and the Rr-5's that had their original roofs
when rebuilt into Rr-49's got new diagonal panel roofs. So the
answer is the Rr-49's used both roofs, but if there is a number
series for which ones the Santa Fe folio sheet does not break that
down. My GUESS is they were mixed togather.
Maybe Richard H. has more information on this.
Charlie is correct on all counts. I would just add that VERY few of
the Rr-5 class reefers survived with their original roofs, so almost
all of the Rr-49s had the rectangular panel roofs which replaced the
original Rr-5 roofs in the late '30s and early '40s. In the photos I
have of Rr-49s, the roofs (where visible) are all rectangular panel.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: 6 AM yard checks

Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
 

Depending on what assumptions you make, you can spend 5 to ten cents a car just doing the check. How does it help finding a lost car. Take for example a yard with 1000 cars. I'd estimate that's about 30 to 40 lists. At least a dozen of the car numbers will have an error either in writing or in legibility. To find a lost car, does a clerk try to read through all of those lists ? Or are the lists checked against the waybill rack - more expense -, which works only for loads and empty special equipment.

I could see that once a week to try to find cars that are really lost. But daily ? On a whole railroad ? If the clerks are doing their job so poorly that every day there are enough lost cars to make the yard check pay for itself, are those same clerks who make a lot of errors going to find them.

It would be interesting to know how many railroads actually did that. I mentioned a few days ago several railroads that I'm pretty sure didn't do full yard checks over the whole railraod..


Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478


DS/SS split 1938 to 1950: Grand Trunk Western

laramielarry <ostresh@...>
 

Hi Folks

Here are the DS/SS/Steel splits for box and auto cars on the GTW from
1938 to 1950:

GTW____Jan-38____Apr-42____Jan-45____Apr-49____Jul-50
DS____2,508____1,159____1,067____269____205
SS____5,978____5,198____5,144____4,221____3,541
Steel____701____2,422____2,566____3,815____4,789
Unknown____40____40____0____0____0
Total____9,227____8,819____8,777____8,305____8,535

GTW____Jan-38____Apr-42____Jan-45____Apr-49____Jul-50
DS____27.2%____13.1%____12.2%____3.2%____2.4%
SS____64.8%____58.9%____58.6%____50.8%____41.5%
Steel____7.6%____27.5%____29.2%____45.9%____56.1%
Unknown____0.4%____0.5%____0.0%____0.0%____0.0%
Total____100.0%____100.0%____100.0%____100.0%____100.0%

The 40 Unknowns in 1938 and 1942 are believed to be steel rebuilds of
USRA DS cars.

Thanks to Ian Cranston for his help in compiling the 1938 data.
Thanks also to Al Brown for his help in identifying sheathing for
series in the other ORERs.

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming


DS/SS split 1938 to 1950: Fort Worth and Denver City

laramielarry <ostresh@...>
 

Hi Folks

Here are the DS/SS/Steel splits for box cars on the FW&D from 1938 to
1950:

FW&D____Jan-38____Apr-42____Jan-45____Apr-49____Jul-50
DS____557____442____227____13____7
SS____494____493____489____482____481
Steel____0____0____500____496____496
Other____0____0____0____0____0
Unknown____58____19____14____2____0
Total____1,109____954____1,230____993____984

FW&D____Jan-38____Apr-42____Jan-45____Apr-49____Jul-50
DS____50.2%____46.3%____18.5%____1.3%____0.7%
SS____44.5%____51.7%____39.8%____48.5%____48.9%
Steel____0.0%____0.0%____40.7%____49.9%____50.4%
Other____0.0%____0.0%____0.0%____0.0%____0.0%
Unknown____5.2%____2.0%____1.1%____0.2%____0.0%
Total____100.0%____100.0%____100.0%____100.0%____100.0%

Thanks to Rupert Gamlin for identifying the sheathing type for the 557
DS cars in 1938.

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming


DS/SS split 1938 to 1950: Great Northern

laramielarry <ostresh@...>
 

Hi Folks

Here are the DS/SS/Steel splits for box, auto and furniture cars on
the GN from 1938 to 1950.

GN____Jan-38____Apr-42____Jan-45____Apr-49____Jul-50
DS____22,114____20,700____21,246____15,551____14,326
SS____3,563____3,535____3,540____3,495____3,487
Steel____0____0____0____1,000____2,499
Plywood____0____0____826____1,994____1,988
Unknown____0____0____1____0____0
Total____25,677____24,235____25,613____22,040____22,300

GN____Jan-38____Apr-42____Jan-45____Apr-49____Jul-50
DS____86.1%____85.4%____83.0%____70.6%____64.2%
SS____13.9%____14.6%____13.8%____15.9%____15.6%
Steel____0.0%____0.0%____0.0%____4.5%____11.2%
Plywood____0.0%____0.0%____3.2%____9.0%____8.9%
Unknown____0.0%____0.0%____0.0%____0.0%____0.0%
Total____100.0%____100.0%____100.0%____100.0%____100.0%

The lone unknown in 1945 is believed to be DS.

Thanks to Robert D. Heninger for his extensive help in compiling this
information.

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming


DS/SS split 1938 to 1950: B&O

laramielarry <ostresh@...>
 

Hi Folks

Here are the DS/SS/Steel splits for box and auto cars on the B&O from
1938 to 1950:

B&O____Jan-38____Apr-42____Jan-45____Apr-49____Jul-50
DS____13,434____9,650____8,991____4,989____2,437
SS____578____467____464____457____422
Steel____18,051____22,055____21,937____25,419____25,372
Other____0____0____0____0____0
Unknown____256____41____17____2____1
Total____32,319____32,213____31,409____30,867____28,232

B&O____Jan-38____Apr-42____Jan-45____Apr-49____Jul-50
DS____41.6%____30.0%____28.6%____16.2%____8.6%
SS____1.8%____1.4%____1.5%____1.5%____1.5%
Steel____55.9%____68.5%____69.8%____82.4%____89.9%
Other____0.0%____0.0%____0.0%____0.0%____0.0%
Unknown____0.8%____0.1%____0.1%____0.0%____0.0%
Total____100.0%____100.0%____100.0%____100.0%____100.0%

Thanks to Edwin C. Kirstatter for his help in compiling this data.

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming


Re: Santa Fe Plug Door Reefers

charles slater
 

Yes the Rr-47 class cars were built with Diagonal Panel roofs. Did you not get my earlier E-Mail, if not I can send it to you again.
Charlie Slater



To: STMFC@...: aslmmiller@...: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 15:31:44 -0400Subject: Re: [STMFC] Santa Fe Plug Door Reefers

Now that we have beaten to death what the Standard Railway Equipment Co called itself , does anyone know whether the Rr-47s were really built with rectangular panel roofs in 1951?I am hoping so since I have a lot of them in my parts bin, but have been waiting for some time for an order of diagonal panel roofs from I/M.regards,Andy Miller----- Original Message ----- From: Tim O'Connor To: STMFC@... Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 3:15 PMSubject: Re: [STMFC] Santa Fe Plug Door ReefersAnd I'm not certain, but I think SRE is not to be confusedwith USRE -- United States Railway Equipment -- which was arebuilder of freight cars during the 1960's (using the easilyrecognized outline of the continental US as its builder logo)Tim O'ConnorAt 8/24/2008 03:00 PM Sunday, you wrote:>Tim O'Connor wrote:>> Correct -- I think we may apply "SRE" for the STMFC era.>> Good abbreviation. The company itself in the 1950s used "SRECo" >in their ads, which I find a little compulsive.>>Tony Thompson





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Santa Fe Plug Door Reefers

Andy Miller <aslmmiller@...>
 

Thanx Charles. Rr-49 it will be.

regards,

Andy Miller

----- Original Message -----
From: "charles slater" <atsfcondr42@...>
To: <stmfc@...>
Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 3:55 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Santa Fe Plug Door Reefers



Andy the Rr-47 class cars were built new in 1951 by the West Wichita shops and did have a diagonal panel roof.
The Rr-49 class cars were rebuilt in 1950 from Rr-5 class wood cars some of which had already had there original roofs replaced with Murphy streight panel roofs in the 1930/40's. The cars that had the streight panel roofs at the time they were rebuilt into Rr-49 cars kept them, and the Rr-5's that had their original roofs when rebuilt into Rr-49's got new diagonal panel roofs. So the answer is the Rr-49's used both roofs, but if there is a number series for which ones the Santa Fe folio sheet does not break that down. My GUESS is they were mixed togather.
Maybe Richard H. has more information on this.
Charlie Slater



To: STMFC@...: aslmmiller@...: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 11:24:56 -0400Subject: [STMFC] Santa Fe Plug Door Reefers




I am currently kitbashing some SantaFe plug door 40' iced reefers. The first model under consideration is an Rr-47. According to the ATSF Society's book on reefers these cars were built in 1951 with a rectangular panel (Murphy) roof. In 1951 wouldn't they have used a diagonal panel (Stanray) roof? Similarly, the Sunshine Models info sheet on ATSF plug door reefers claims that the Rr-49s were rebuilt retaining their rectangular panel roof from a 1930's rebuilding, but the Society book claims they had diagonal panel roofs. Which is correct?regards,Andy Miller_dels info sheet[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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Be the filmmaker you always wanted to be├»┬┐┬Żlearn how to burn a DVD with Windows├»┬┐┬Ż.
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------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Boxcar Images

Bob Chaparro <thecitrusbelt@...>
 

Here are a few boxcar image links I found while looking for other
items on the `net. The captions are from the image sources.

Enjoy.

Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA
==========================
From a Great Northern Annual Report
http://www.gngoat.org/annual_report_57.jpg

Volunteer workers loading a truck from a boxcar for transportation to
the warehouse at this center. -- Photographer: Parker, Tom --
McGehee, Arkansas. 11/21/42 (Note that this is an "automobile" boxcar
serving another use during WW II.)
http://content.cdlib.org/ark:/13030/ft4p3005rg/

A surviving railroad legacy of the former Studebaker railway. This
Wabash boxcar was once assigned to the Studebaker Plant. For many
years this car moved parts in, out and around the Studebaker Plants.
Photo courtsey of Bob Albert and The Hoosier Valley Railroad Musuem ,
North Judson, Indiana, where the car has been restored and is on
display.
http://www.monon.monon.org/sobendpixs/wab49114.jpg

GAEX 112008 (ca. 1960)
Boxcar #112008 as it appeared when it first arrived on the GBW.
http://www.greenbayroute.com/gaex112008.jpg

GBW 15030 (ca. 1958)
These 40' boxcars were rebuilt from 14000-series double door auto
loaders.
http://www.greenbayroute.com/gbw15030.jpg

Pullman-Standard Boxcar (1965)
The Green Bay & Western added 200 boxcars to its roster in late 1951 -
- the first steel boxcars on the railroad.
http://www.greenbayroute.com/1965boxcar751.htm


Re: Santa Fe Plug Door Reefers

charles slater
 

Andy the Rr-47 class cars were built new in 1951 by the West Wichita shops and did have a diagonal panel roof.
The Rr-49 class cars were rebuilt in 1950 from Rr-5 class wood cars some of which had already had there original roofs replaced with Murphy streight panel roofs in the 1930/40's. The cars that had the streight panel roofs at the time they were rebuilt into Rr-49 cars kept them, and the Rr-5's that had their original roofs when rebuilt into Rr-49's got new diagonal panel roofs. So the answer is the Rr-49's used both roofs, but if there is a number series for which ones the Santa Fe folio sheet does not break that down. My GUESS is they were mixed togather.
Maybe Richard H. has more information on this.
Charlie Slater



To: STMFC@...: aslmmiller@...: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 11:24:56 -0400Subject: [STMFC] Santa Fe Plug Door Reefers




I am currently kitbashing some SantaFe plug door 40' iced reefers. The first model under consideration is an Rr-47. According to the ATSF Society's book on reefers these cars were built in 1951 with a rectangular panel (Murphy) roof. In 1951 wouldn't they have used a diagonal panel (Stanray) roof? Similarly, the Sunshine Models info sheet on ATSF plug door reefers claims that the Rr-49s were rebuilt retaining their rectangular panel roof from a 1930's rebuilding, but the Society book claims they had diagonal panel roofs. Which is correct?regards,Andy Miller_dels info sheet[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





_________________________________________________________________
Be the filmmaker you always wanted to beŚlearn how to burn a DVD with Windows«.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Santa Fe Plug Door Reefers

Andy Miller <aslmmiller@...>
 

Now that we have beaten to death what the Standard Railway Equipment Co called itself , does anyone know whether the Rr-47s were really built with rectangular panel roofs in 1951?

I am hoping so since I have a lot of them in my parts bin, but have been waiting for some time for an order of diagonal panel roofs from I/M.

regards,

Andy Miller

----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 3:15 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Santa Fe Plug Door Reefers



And I'm not certain, but I think SRE is not to be confused
with USRE -- United States Railway Equipment -- which was a
rebuilder of freight cars during the 1960's (using the easily
recognized outline of the continental US as its builder logo)

Tim O'Connor

At 8/24/2008 03:00 PM Sunday, you wrote:
>Tim O'Connor wrote:
>> Correct -- I think we may apply "SRE" for the STMFC era.
>
> Good abbreviation. The company itself in the 1950s used "SRECo"
>in their ads, which I find a little compulsive.
>
>Tony Thompson


Re: Santa Fe Plug Door Reefers

Tim O'Connor
 

And I'm not certain, but I think SRE is not to be confused
with USRE -- United States Railway Equipment -- which was a
rebuilder of freight cars during the 1960's (using the easily
recognized outline of the continental US as its builder logo)

Tim O'Connor

At 8/24/2008 03:00 PM Sunday, you wrote:
Tim O'Connor wrote:
Correct -- I think we may apply "SRE" for the STMFC era.
Good abbreviation. The company itself in the 1950s used "SRECo"
in their ads, which I find a little compulsive.

Tony Thompson


Re: Santa Fe Plug Door Reefers

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
Correct -- I think we may apply "SRE" for the STMFC era.
Good abbreviation. The company itself in the 1950s used "SRECo" in their ads, which I find a little compulsive.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Santa Fe Plug Door Reefers

Tim O'Connor
 

Correct -- I think we may apply "SRE" for the STMFC era.

At 8/24/2008 01:50 PM Sunday, you wrote:
Andy Miller wrote:
In 1951 wouldn't they have used a diagonal panel (Stanray) roof?
It's a pretty tiny nit, Andy, but Standard Railway Equipment
didn't call themselves "Stanray" until after the validity period of
this list.

Tony Thompson

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