Date   

Re: A different distribution question

Dave Nelson
 

Kurt, I doubt there are many facts available upon which you can draw a good
conclusion. Here's a guess for ordinary boxcars: On the branch, if the
ratio of carload shipments to receipts distinctly favors shipments you'd
probably have a condition where there are not enough inbound boxcars loads
to meet the shipment needs. Odds would be good, IMO, that somewhere nearby
there might well be a supply of home road cars sitting around in protective
service, waiting to be pulled and sent up the branch. Conversely, if the
ratio of shipments: receipts favors receipts, there would be little need for
home road cars and, IMO, far fewer would be seen. Now of course what's not
on the branch, but nearby, plays into the equation too,as the
shipment:receipts ratio might well be quite different over there and so
effect what's seen on the branchline.

Another consideration might be the situation of a grain harvest. Boxcars
from all over get reserved and put to use in that situation.

I think, in the end, the best advice might be: YMMV. :)

Dave Nelson

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Kurt
Laughlin

What is the appropriate starting point or algorithim for determining the
road make up of cars on a working branch line where there are no through
trains and no storage tracks? (That is, the effects of cars being stored
due to economic conditions are not a factor in calculating "home road
percentage".)
------------------------------------


Re: DS/SS split 1938 help needed + NKP summary tables

laramielarry <ostresh@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "al_brown03" <abrown@...> wrote:


Road, AAR, Kind, Series, IL, IH, Door, Capy, Qty 1938, Qty 1942
B&O, XM, Box, 195500-196499, 40'5", 8'1", 10'0", 80000, 358, 4
Double-sheathed, class M-15A, blt Mt. Vernon 1915. See instructions
for Westerfield kit (5000 series). In-service photo: PMC 9/84 p119.

BAR, XM, Box, 10000-10399, 36'0", 8'1", 6'0", 80000, 350, NA
Single-sheathed. MRR 3/99 p139.

NOR(CCC&STL), XAB, Box, 3850-4349, 40'6", 8'8", 10'0", 80000,
494,
10

NOR 3893, RMJ 12/89 pp56-58. Double-sheathed, door-and-a-half, blt
ACF 2/24.

GTW, XA, Auto, 584202-584701, 40'6", 10'0", 10'6", 85000, 497, NA
Single-sheathed. Described in Hendrickson, "Focus on Freight Cars
vol
1" ["FFC v1"], p25. Blt ca 1930.

IC, XA, Auto, 161001-161500, 40'6", 10'0.5625", 12'0", 80000,
490,
482

Single-sheathed, blt Mt. Vernon 1923. Described in Culotta, "Steam
Era Freight Cars Reference Manual vol 1", p55.

MEC, XM, Box, 32003-32424, 35'10", 8'5", 5'0", 80000, 327, 126
Described as double sheathed: Sweetland and Horsley, "Northern New
England Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment", p 7.

NKP, XM, Box, 25000-29299, 36'0", 8'0", 6'0", 80000, 279, NA
Classic Trains Su/04 p58. Double sheathed.

NP, XAF, Auto, 6000-6999, 50'3", 10'0", 9'10", 100000, 290, NA
Single-sheathed, blt General American 1923. Described in
Hendrickson,
FFC v1, p47.

M&O, XM, Box, 7000-7399, 36'0.5", 8'7.75", 5'11", 80000, 388, 81&#92;&#92;
Double-sheathed truss-rod cars like Southern class SU, blt 1923.
See
instructions to Westerfield kit 4107.

SOUTHERN, XM, Box, 304991-305799, 36'0", 8'3", 6'0", 80000, 794,
NA

Double-sheathed truss-rod cars, class SU. Westerfield kit 4153.

-- hth --
Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.
Great work, Al! You have reduced the number of Unknowns
and "uncertains" by over 3,500 cars. One of the railroads for which
you provided information is now well enough known to show its summary
tables.

NKP____Jan-38____Apr-42____Jan-45____Apr-49____Jul-50
DS____4,725____3,584____2,982____62____0
SS____204____86____215____199____198
Steel____2,103____3,984____4,368____8,178____8,410
Aluminum____0____0____0____10____10
Unknown____295____0____0____0____0
Total____7,327____7,654____7,565____8,449____8,618

NKP____Jan-38____Apr-42____Jan-45____Apr-49____Jul-50
DS____64.5%____46.8%____39.4%____0.7%____0.0%
SS____2.8%____1.1%____2.8%____2.4%____2.3%
Steel____28.7%____52.1%____57.7%____96.8%____97.6%
Aluminum____0.0%____0.0%____0.0%____0.1%____0.1%
Unknown____4.0%____0.0%____0.0%____0.0%____0.0%
Total____100.0%____100.0%____100.0%____100.0%____100.0%

The interesting pattern of SS cars is the result of the attrition of
the 97000-97999 series 36' cars built in 1914, followed by an influx
of war emergency cars built in 1944.

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming


BEFORE DODX????

joel norman <mec-bml@...>
 

Gentleman:What was the agency used before DODX{before WW-2} to
transport military equipment...USATC marked flats???or just leased cars
from the local railroads???
Thanks
Joel Norman


Re: 6 AM yard checks

Gene Green <bierglaeser@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Howard R Garner <cascaderail@...> wrote:

The daily yard check has been going on for years.

The Minnesota Historical Society has a yard book from the M&StL at
Northfield, Minn that has all this information, including car
destination and what cars were forwarded during the day, and most
time
the train the were forwarded on.

Howard Garner
If the yard book is from Northfield then the railroad is not M&StL. If
the RR is M&StL then the town is not Northfield. The M&StL did not
serve Northfield, MN. Could you mean Minneapolis, Northfield &
Southern?

Gene Green


Re: 6 AM yard checks

earlyrail
 

The daily yard check has been going on for years.

The Minnesota Historical Society has a yard book from the M&StL at Northfield, Minn that has all this information, including car destination and what cars were forwarded during the day, and most time the train the were forwarded on.

Howard Garner


Re: A different distribution question

Tim O'Connor
 

Waybill/switchlist programs generally assign cars to be loaded either on the
branchline, or "offline" somewhere for delivery to the branchline. How clever
these programs are about assigning cars is highly variable. The software that
I wrote had rules for each industry, rules for each car, and general rules about
assignments (e.g. empty cars online would be preferred for online industries
if they are in the same division). Once the rules are set down, then the program
more or less randomly chooses cars in turn, checking to see if each car can be
assigned. (Many may not be, and they are skipped over, to try again later.)

If you have 200-300 freight cars from many railroads, but your branch only takes
20 cars at a time, then over time you might never repeat the same combination
of cars.

Tim

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Kurt Laughlin" <fleeta@...>
What is the appropriate starting point or algorithim for determining the road
make up of cars on a working branch line where there are no through trains and
no storage tracks? (That is, the effects of cars being stored due to economic
conditions are not a factor in calculating "home road percentage".)

KL


Re: A different distribution question

William Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Kurt,

Very good question.

While it is most likely that the make up of freight cars on a working
branch line would be dependent on the geographic location of that
branch line and also the customers served. I doubt if the traffic of
any two branch lines would be exactly the same.

A good example can be found on Steve Sandifer's pages on the SFRH&MS
website at www.atsfrr.net. Steve presents several trains and consists
for the Santa Fe's Howard Branch that ran south out of Emporia, Kansas.

I am using this information for my modeling effort of the Santa Fe's
Gridley Branch (out of Ottawa, Kansas) that was located about 15-20
miles to the east of the Howard Branch.

Cheers,
-- Bill Keene
Irvine, CA

On Aug 24, 2008, at 6:52 PM, Kurt Laughlin wrote:

What is the appropriate starting point or algorithim for determining
the road make up of cars on a working branch line where there are no
through trains and no storage tracks? (That is, the effects of cars
being stored due to economic conditions are not a factor in
calculating "home road percentage".)

KL





Re: DS/SS split 1938 help needed

Jack Mullen
 

--- Larry Ostresh wrote:

Below are the series with the largest number of unknowns. If anyone
can tell me whether they are DS, SS, or steel, I would be most
grateful. A build or rebuild date would also be appreciated.
Larry, CNW/CMO information, such as I have, is interpolated.

Road, AAR, Kind, Series, IL, IH, Door, Capy, Qty 1938, Qty 1942
CMO, XM, Box, 29200-31198, 40'0", 7'11", 5'0", 80000, 611, NA
must be double sheathed. They are listed as steel underframe, rather
than steel frame, and CNW/CMO SS boxcars had a 6' door opening. (Does
anyone have a photo?) I don't have details on CMO cars, but since
these are listed as having steel underframes, they should date within
just a few years before the Fowler SS cars began arriving in 1914.
CNW's first SUF boxcars were built 1912-13, and are dimensionally
similar to this CMO series, except IH and cu capy.

CNW, XA, Auto, 34900-36898, 40'6", 10'0", 10'0", 80000, 997, 12
single sheathed, blt.1927, C&NW Chgo. Shops

CNW, XA, Auto, 110000-110998, 40'6", 10'4", 10'0", 80000, 498, 496
single sheathed, blt.1925, AC&F Chicago

btw, all the above are even nos. only.

Jack Mullen


PFE Book For Sale

Justin Kahn
 

Since (judging by ebay listings) there seems to be a market for the first edition of Tony Thompson's majesterial treatment
of the PFE, anyone on the list interested in mine for $40 and shipping? Very good condition, slight rubbing around the edges
of the dust jacket from moving it around.

Jace Kahn, General Manager
Ceres and Canisteo RR Co.


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A different distribution question

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

What is the appropriate starting point or algorithim for determining the road make up of cars on a working branch line where there are no through trains and no storage tracks? (That is, the effects of cars being stored due to economic conditions are not a factor in calculating "home road percentage".)

KL


Re: What HO truck(s) do we STMFC'ers want?

Jason Hill
 

Brian,
If you make a better truck, I'm sure we'll buy it. Maybe even
replace the Atlas ones we have...

So we're waiting. :)
Jason

--- In STMFC@..., "Brian Leppert" <b.leppert@...> wrote:

Andy and Jason,

The Atlas truck is a very poor representation of the National C-1 70-
ton truck. If you have Tony's SP Freight Cars, vol.1, Gondolas and
Stock Cars, see page 218 for what the prototype really looks like.

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV

--- In STMFC@..., "Andy Sperandeo" <asperandeo@>
wrote:

Brian, I think you're on to something with the 70-ton trucks. I
just built a Sunshine NYC
gondola kit that needed 70-ton trucks with a 3-1-3 spring package.
I used a pair of Atlas
trucks from a Hart convertible ballast car, adding semi-scale
wheels and Kadee brake shoes.
However, Atlas doesn't list these as separate parts and they aren't
as nice as your trucks
anyway.

Good luck,

Andy


Re: DS/SS split 1938 help needed

al_brown03
 


Road, AAR, Kind, Series, IL, IH, Door, Capy, Qty 1938, Qty 1942
B&O, XM, Box, 195500-196499, 40'5", 8'1", 10'0", 80000, 358, 4
Double-sheathed, class M-15A, blt Mt. Vernon 1915. See instructions
for Westerfield kit (5000 series). In-service photo: PMC 9/84 p119.

BAR, XM, Box, 10000-10399, 36'0", 8'1", 6'0", 80000, 350, NA
Single-sheathed. MRR 3/99 p139.

NOR(CCC&STL), XAB, Box, 3850-4349, 40'6", 8'8", 10'0", 80000, 494,
10

NOR 3893, RMJ 12/89 pp56-58. Double-sheathed, door-and-a-half, blt
ACF 2/24.

GTW, XA, Auto, 584202-584701, 40'6", 10'0", 10'6", 85000, 497, NA
Single-sheathed. Described in Hendrickson, "Focus on Freight Cars vol
1" ["FFC v1"], p25. Blt ca 1930.

IC, XA, Auto, 161001-161500, 40'6", 10'0.5625", 12'0", 80000, 490,
482

Single-sheathed, blt Mt. Vernon 1923. Described in Culotta, "Steam
Era Freight Cars Reference Manual vol 1", p55.

MEC, XM, Box, 32003-32424, 35'10", 8'5", 5'0", 80000, 327, 126
Described as double sheathed: Sweetland and Horsley, "Northern New
England Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment", p 7.

NKP, XM, Box, 25000-29299, 36'0", 8'0", 6'0", 80000, 279, NA
Classic Trains Su/04 p58. Double sheathed.

NP, XAF, Auto, 6000-6999, 50'3", 10'0", 9'10", 100000, 290, NA
Single-sheathed, blt General American 1923. Described in Hendrickson,
FFC v1, p47.

M&O, XM, Box, 7000-7399, 36'0.5", 8'7.75", 5'11", 80000, 388, 81&#92;&#92;
Double-sheathed truss-rod cars like Southern class SU, blt 1923. See
instructions to Westerfield kit 4107.

SOUTHERN, XM, Box, 304991-305799, 36'0", 8'3", 6'0", 80000, 794, NA
Double-sheathed truss-rod cars, class SU. Westerfield kit 4153.

-- hth --
Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


Re: 6 AM yard checks

Allen Rueter
 

Malcolm,
I have a yard book for the Wabash, Martinsburg, MO, 1/1/1958 to 6/5/1959
Cars 'on hand' in the area were recorded, M-F morning, along with the temp., but not weekends or holidays.
The most significant information, gleaned from it has been, they started
storing cars for grain in mid June, some cars were on hand for six weeks or more.

Empty SAL and ACL cars were going back to FL (covered hoppers)

Some one was shipping on RI flats to the local Implement co.

If I remove all duplicates, I have the following boxcar counts
Wab 90 29.5%
NYC 19 6.2%
IC 11 3.6%
PRR 10 3.3%
CBQ 10
9 CNW NP ATSF 2.95%
8 UP SOU 2.6%
7 for L&N GN 2.3%
6 for KCS C&O 1.96%
5 NW CN 1.6%
4 for SLSF SAL RI ERIE B&O CP MP 1.3%
3 for DLW ACL SP SOOL 0.98%
2 for WM T&P SPS NJII MON MKT LV CNJ CGW CG CEI NCStL PLE GBW C&S 0.66%
1 ACY BLE DTI GTW IHB ITC MILW MNS MSTL NH NKP ONT RDG SSW TNO 0.33%

Gons: 9 Wab, 3 MP, 2 CBQ, 1 IC
Stock cars: 6 Wab, 4 SLSF, 3 CBQ, 3 UP/OSL
--
Allen Rueter
StLouis MO

----- Original Message ----
From: Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 6:28:25 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: 6 AM yard checks

8<

It would be interesting to know how many railroads actually did that. I mentioned a few days ago several railroads that I'm pretty sure didn't do full yard checks over the whole railraod..

Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478


Re: Reefer info

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jul 13, 2008, at 4:29 PM, Roger Hinman wrote:

PRKX were Pork & Pollard cars probably delivering feed; they were
quite common in New England';
the DSDX may have been carrying Schlitz beer

Roger Hinman
On Jul 12, 2008, at 9:40 PM, armprem1 wrote:

I am seeking information on the following reefers:SF 1045 ,DSDX
716 ,SDDX 753 ,PSKX 646 ,PRKX , DLW 7030 ,NCGX 3734 ,GREX
102001 ,GPEX












Uh, Roger that's PARK & Pollard (actually, the P. & P. Car Line of
Buffalo, NY); No pork involved, AFAIK. DSDX 716 was probably
carrying beer, as you suggest, though not necessarily Schlitz beer.
If "SF 1045" was actually SFRC 1045, that was a 53' mechanical
reefer. class Rr-66, built by GATC in 1960. SDDX looks like a
misprint (maybe for DSDX 753, a valid number); there are no SDDX
reporting marks shown in any of my ORERs); same for PSKX 646
(possibly PRKX 646, another valid number). DL&W 7030 was one of the
Lackawanna's 7000-7299 series reefers. NCGX 3734 was operated by the
National Refrigerator Car Co. (i.e, MDT, i.e., NYC); I'm not sure
which lessor the reporting marks represented. GREX is also either a
misprint or a mis-copy. The number would work for GAEX 102001,
series 100000-109999, which were 50' General American box cars with
DF loaders.


Richard Hendrickson


Re: 6 AM yard checks

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

I mentioned a few days ago several railroads that I'm pretty sure didn't do full yard checks over the whole railraod..
Originally it was stated much more positively; now you're just "pretty sure." Interesting.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Dan Hall doors

Jim & Lisa Hayes <jimandlisa97225@...>
 

Brian, try Andy Carlson midcentury@.... I've bought Dan Hall doors
from him.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Brian J Carlson
Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 10:35 AM
To: stmfc@...
Subject: [STMFC] Dan Hall doors

Does anyone know where I can get some Dan Hall 7 panel Superior doors, like
Ted C used in his Jan 2008 PS-1 build in RMC?

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: 6 AM yard checks

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

Malcolm, I don't have knowledege of the era in STMFC in this regard,
but I know that yard clerks and train crews to this day go to some
trouble to make sure that car numbers are reported accurately. Such
simple things as crossing the number 7 when writing car numbers so as
to not have it confused with the number 1, and exercising care in
copying numbers down in the first place. This is not to say that
mistakes did not happen, but that they likely were the exception
rather than the rule.

I have a photocopy of a ledger of "grain passing through" a CN
elevator on Lake Huron in the 1940's. I ought to post a few pages
to STMFC, as it shows both the use of US cars for Canadian grain, and
very good penmanship (sadly, now a lost art) for an everyday
document.

Steve Lucas.


wrote:

Depending on what assumptions you make, you can spend 5 to ten
cents a car just doing the check. How does it help finding a lost
car. Take for example a yard with 1000 cars. I'd estimate that's
about 30 to 40 lists. At least a dozen of the car numbers will have
an error either in writing or in legibility. To find a lost car,
does a clerk try to read through all of those lists ? Or are the
lists checked against the waybill rack - more expense -, which works
only for loads and empty special equipment.

I could see that once a week to try to find cars that are really
lost. But daily ? On a whole railroad ? If the clerks are doing
their job so poorly that every day there are enough lost cars to make
the yard check pay for itself, are those same clerks who make a lot
of errors going to find them.

It would be interesting to know how many railroads actually did
that. I mentioned a few days ago several railroads that I'm pretty
sure didn't do full yard checks over the whole railraod..


Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Santa Fe Plug Door Reefers

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Aug 24, 2008, at 12:55 PM, charles slater wrote:


Andy the Rr-47 class cars were built new in 1951 by the West
Wichita shops and did have a diagonal panel roof.
The Rr-49 class cars were rebuilt in 1950 from Rr-5 class wood
cars some of which had already had there original roofs replaced
with Murphy streight panel roofs in the 1930/40's. The cars that
had the streight panel roofs at the time they were rebuilt into
Rr-49 cars kept them, and the Rr-5's that had their original roofs
when rebuilt into Rr-49's got new diagonal panel roofs. So the
answer is the Rr-49's used both roofs, but if there is a number
series for which ones the Santa Fe folio sheet does not break that
down. My GUESS is they were mixed togather.
Maybe Richard H. has more information on this.
Charlie is correct on all counts. I would just add that VERY few of
the Rr-5 class reefers survived with their original roofs, so almost
all of the Rr-49s had the rectangular panel roofs which replaced the
original Rr-5 roofs in the late '30s and early '40s. In the photos I
have of Rr-49s, the roofs (where visible) are all rectangular panel.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: 6 AM yard checks

Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
 

Depending on what assumptions you make, you can spend 5 to ten cents a car just doing the check. How does it help finding a lost car. Take for example a yard with 1000 cars. I'd estimate that's about 30 to 40 lists. At least a dozen of the car numbers will have an error either in writing or in legibility. To find a lost car, does a clerk try to read through all of those lists ? Or are the lists checked against the waybill rack - more expense -, which works only for loads and empty special equipment.

I could see that once a week to try to find cars that are really lost. But daily ? On a whole railroad ? If the clerks are doing their job so poorly that every day there are enough lost cars to make the yard check pay for itself, are those same clerks who make a lot of errors going to find them.

It would be interesting to know how many railroads actually did that. I mentioned a few days ago several railroads that I'm pretty sure didn't do full yard checks over the whole railraod..


Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478


DS/SS split 1938 to 1950: Grand Trunk Western

laramielarry <ostresh@...>
 

Hi Folks

Here are the DS/SS/Steel splits for box and auto cars on the GTW from
1938 to 1950:

GTW____Jan-38____Apr-42____Jan-45____Apr-49____Jul-50
DS____2,508____1,159____1,067____269____205
SS____5,978____5,198____5,144____4,221____3,541
Steel____701____2,422____2,566____3,815____4,789
Unknown____40____40____0____0____0
Total____9,227____8,819____8,777____8,305____8,535

GTW____Jan-38____Apr-42____Jan-45____Apr-49____Jul-50
DS____27.2%____13.1%____12.2%____3.2%____2.4%
SS____64.8%____58.9%____58.6%____50.8%____41.5%
Steel____7.6%____27.5%____29.2%____45.9%____56.1%
Unknown____0.4%____0.5%____0.0%____0.0%____0.0%
Total____100.0%____100.0%____100.0%____100.0%____100.0%

The 40 Unknowns in 1938 and 1942 are believed to be steel rebuilds of
USRA DS cars.

Thanks to Ian Cranston for his help in compiling the 1938 data.
Thanks also to Al Brown for his help in identifying sheathing for
series in the other ORERs.

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming

119901 - 119920 of 195360