Date   

PFE Paint Reference, Was Re: PFE reefers

golden1014
 

Gentlemen,

While we're on the subject, can anyone suggest a good paint match so
I can properly finish the PFE wood reefer I have on the workbench?

Thank you,
John

John Golden
Bloomington, IN


--- In STMFC@..., "ed_mines" <ed_mines@...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@> wrote:
Ed: they were not yellow. Period. The "Daylight Orange"
paint
did weather in the direction of yellow, but the cars were not
wearing
yellow paint. If you'd run your thumbnail over that "yellow"
color,
you
would have seen the deep orange underneath. I've done exactly
that
exercise with some preserved PFE cars.
And as Richard observed, the original colors are VERY
well
documented and have been published in the form of carefully
printed
color panels. What an elderly slide has to do with that somewhat
escapes me.
The original colors are well documented.

I thought prototype modelers wanted to accurately model cars (and
entire trains) as they appeared in service, not as built. Any
group of
cars might have a couple of freshly painted cars but most would be
weathered to varying degrees including paint that shifted color.

Ed


Re: PFE reefers

ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@...,
Al Brown wrote:
Without having seen the picture, I infer that the "black" cars were
extra-dirty, and the yellow(-orange) patches around the reporting
marks were where they'd been cleaned for legibility?
Without seeing the photo I'd assume that too.

The yellow area aound the reporting marks on the 2 very dirty reefers
is rectangular with clean cut edges. I doubt it would look that way if
someone rubbed or washed the grime off by hand.

I found something interesting which I hadn't noticed before. Adjacent
to the PFE section there's a second, much smaller "clean" area (maybe
for repack data?) which is orange on one of the cars.

I've asked the editor if I can get a copy of the original.

Ed


Re: Atlantic & Danville boxcar decals

Michael Aufderheide
 

Jim,
 
Al Westerfield has a SU boxcar for the A&D kit # 4151.  Decals can be ordered separately.
 
Regards,
 
Mike Aufderheide

--- On Thu, 8/28/08, James F. Brewer <jfbrewer@...> wrote:

From: James F. Brewer <jfbrewer@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Atlantic & Danville boxcar decals
To: STMFC@...
Date: Thursday, August 28, 2008, 8:56 AM






Is anyone aware of a source for HO scale decals for Atlantic & Danville boxcars? I'd like to model one of the boxcars it acquired in the 1950s from the New York Central, using the Sunshine Kit 64.1. A photo of one of the cars is shown in Ted Culotta's "Steam Era Freight Cars Seminar" book.

I've checked the "big 3" as well as the Great Decals web page.

Thanks for any help.

Jim Brewer
Glenwood, MD

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


For sale: Storzek kits

Brian Leppert <b.leppert@...>
 

I have available two Dennis Storzek HO resin kits.

#1916-5B Nickle Plate Road Boxcar (double sheathed, steel door) 11000-
11299 series

#1917-2 Canadian National S.S. Boxcar (wood roof)

$40 each, plus shipping. Will ship to US only.

Although these are early resin kits, I feel that the pattern work and
castings are excellent.

If interested, please contact me OFF-LIST at
b.leppert@...

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV


Re: Chain storage tubes on ATSF Fe-6,10,14,16,20

John Hile <john66h@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Joseph Jacques <bowie1793@...> wrote:

My question is how many tubes should there be and where would they
be spaced on a fifty foot car of this type? I have the SF Rolling
stock vol. 3 but the closest reference is of an Fe-5, a forty foot
car, on page 51.













Joe,

Auto rack equipped cars typically displayed (in addition to the
horizontal white stripe) a number and letter on the door. For
examples, see p. 67 & 78 of your SF Book for some Fe-20 examples,
showing "12 D" on the door. The "12" represents the number of floor
tubes, and the "D" is the type of rack.

If I find anything definite regarding placement of the tubes I will
post that as well.


Hope this is helpful,

John Hile
Blacksburg, VA


Re: Per Diem

John Hile <john66h@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., timboconnor@... wrote:

I believe the average "dwell time" for freight cars on the BRC in
the 1950's was over 24 hours. So does this mean they would owe
one day of per diem for each car, because that was their average
delay?
















Tim,

As I understand the rules, the BRC would only pay per diem for the
number of days in excess of the average number it took them to handle
cars. When the average method was used, there was a specific way it
was derived. Data from the same 10-day period of each month, over a
12-month period.

Also, in reviewing the Per Diem code of rules (Rule 5) it looks as
though the number of days of per diem a switching road could reclaim
was also negotiable. In other words, the average method above was one
way to do it...

Another way was for the roads involved to agree to settle based on the
actual amount of time required to switch cars for the period of the
month the reclaim is made, but not to exceed an agreed-upon maximum
number of days on any one car, and also (I believe - lots of commas in
those sentences) not to exceed the maximum of 5 days per car.

There are some exceptions for stock cars, certain empty moves, etc.,
so for more info, if you have an ORER, the Per Diem Rules, Switching
Reclaim Rules, and Short Line (less than 100 mile) Rules are in the
back. In the Jan. 1943 version they are pp 1028-1039, and the Jan.
1953 they are pp 755-770.

BTW, short lines could appeal for relief from paying all per diem
owed. They could get partial relief if the per diem amount was found
to be "excessive compared to remuneration received for services rendered."


John Hile
Blacksburg, VA


DS/SS split 1938 to 1950, IC help needed

laramielarry <ostresh@...>
 

Hi Folks

Here are the DS/SS/Steel splits for Illinois Central box and auto
cars, 1938 to 1950:

IC____Jan-38____Apr-42____Jan-45____Apr-49____Jul-50
DS____4,242____1,435____1,098____153____65
SS____9,561____9,060____9,334____9,026____8,362
Steel____1,801____8,781____8,745____12,465____12,441
Unknown____1,521____1,012____1____0____0
Total____17,125____20,288____19,178____21,644____20,868

IC____Jan-38____Apr-42____Jan-45____Apr-49____Jul-50
DS____24.8%____7.1%____5.7%____0.7%____0.3%
SS____55.8%____44.7%____48.7%____41.7%____40.1%
Steel____10.5%____43.3%____45.6%____57.6%____59.6%
Unknown____8.9%____5.0%____0.0%____0.0%____0.0%
Total____100.0%____100.0%____100.0%____100.0%____100.0%

As can be seen, there are a large number of Unknowns in 1938 and
1942. If anyone can tell me the siding type for the following
series, I would greatly appreciate this information. Build or re-
build dates would also be very useful.

Road, AAR, Kind, Series, IL, IH, Door, Capy, Qty 1938, Qty 1942
IC, XM, Box, 11000-11344, 36'0", 8'0", 6'0", 60000, 173, NA
IC, XM, Box, 15200-15324, 40'6", 8'7", 6'0", 80000, NA, 124
IC, XM, Box, 170001-170378, 40'6", 8'3.875", 6'0", 80000, 358, NA
IC, XM, Box, 227801-228000, 36'4.5", 8'0", 10'0", 80000, 158, NA
IC, XM, Box, 38000-38009, 50'5", 10'0.5625", 6'0", 100000, NA, 10
IC, XM, Box, 243001-243500, 40'6", 8'2.5", 6'0", 80000, 376, 365
IC, XA, Auto, 360001-360500, 40'3.75", 10'0", 10'0", 80000, 456, 314
IC, XAR, Auto, 35000-35199, 40'6", 10'0", 12'0", 80000, NA, 199

Thanks in advance
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming


Atlantic & Danville boxcar decals

James F. Brewer <jfbrewer@...>
 

Is anyone aware of a source for HO scale decals for Atlantic & Danville boxcars? I'd like to model one of the boxcars it acquired in the 1950s from the New York Central, using the Sunshine Kit 64.1. A photo of one of the cars is shown in Ted Culotta's "Steam Era Freight Cars Seminar" book.

I've checked the "big 3" as well as the Great Decals web page.

Thanks for any help.

Jim Brewer
Glenwood, MD


Re: Per Diem and the NYO&W

John Hile <john66h@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., timboconnor@... wrote:


Tim,


Boy, I was having trouble yesterday afternoon! Those figures are
national averages for 1941...not NYO&W figures.


John Hile


Re: Atlantic & Danville boxcar decals

Charles Hladik
 

Jim,
I found my set of O scale A&D decals. They are # 134-11 from Walthers.
So I reckon, lots of luck.


Chuck Hladik
Rutland Railroad
Virginia Division
NMRA L5756



**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)


Re: Atlantic & Danville boxcar decals

Charles Hladik
 

Jim,
I have a set of O scale decals for the A&D that James King gave me so
that the NMRA MER might produce a "Regional" car for sale. This hasn't
happened. I'll try to get up with James soon and see who made them for him.


Chuck Hladik
Rutland Railroad
Virginia Division
NMRA L5756



**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)


Re: Per Diem and the NYO&W

Malcolm H. Houck
 

Who was feeding NYO&W from the west at Scranton? Lackawanna?

Lehigh Valley, via Austin Junction at the end of the Capouse Branch. The run
was then from Scranton to Maybrook, with traffic thence over the CNE Bridge
to New England via the New Haven (50.5% common stockholder [plus other
holdings in preferred] in the NYO&W and after the Vanderbilt-Mellen-Morgan "Corsair
Agreements").

In Tony Koester's softcover Kalmbach book on planning for realistic
operation he reproduces an image of a routing schedule that includes one of the NYO&W
symbol freights; -- running NKP-LV-NYO&W-NH from the Midwest to New England;
-- an "Alphabet Route."

Mal Houck



**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)


Chain storage tubes on ATSF Fe-6,10,14,16,20

bowie1793
 

Fellow Listers,
                     While starting work on the underframes of my three Sunshine ATSF Fe class "Whale Belly" rebuilds, the instructions make no mention of chain storage tubes in the floor. I am building the auto rack equipped cars. My question is how many tubes should there be and where would they be spaced on a fifty foot car of this type? I have the SF Rolling stock vol. 3 but the closest reference is of an Fe-5, a forty foot car, on page 51.
Your advice would be greatly appreciated.
 
Joe Jacques 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


rapid prototyping

Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

To all - The November issue (yes, I know it's August) of Analog Science Fiction/Fact has a great article on rapid prototyping, its origins, current state and possible futures. It describes a kit available for $2,400 - equivalent to ham kits years ago. Must reading for anyone interested in its possible use in mrring. - Al Westerfield


Re: Per Diem

Tim O'Connor
 

John

I believe the average "dwell time" for freight cars on the BRC in
the 1950's was over 24 hours. So does this mean they would owe
one day of per diem for each car, because that was their average
delay?

Tim

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "John Hile" <john66h@...>
--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Imagine the size of the Belt Railway of Chicago's deficit --
they usually had 10,000 or more cars of other railroads on
their property!






Actually, as a Terminal Switching Road and/or Intermediate Switching
Road, performing those services for fixed fees, and not receiving part
of the freight rate, the Belt Railway of Chicago would have been able
to reclaim a certain amount of per diem charges based on the "Code of
Switching Reclaim Rules." IIRC, this is how the Belt Railway of
Chicago operated�and others on the list may be able to confirm this.

In general, the rules say that the switching road will use the
"average time required for the switching road to switch cars for all
roads" as a basis for reclaim of per diem. The Code of Per Diem
Rules, however, limits the total number of reclaim days to a maximum
of five for switching roads. Intermediate switching roads (handling a
car from one railroad to another) are limited to reclaim one day's per
diem only.



John Hile
Blacksburg, VA


Re: Per Diem and the NYO&W

Tim O'Connor
 

Who was feeding NYO&W from the west at Scranton? Lackawanna?

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Bill Schneider" <branchline@...>
Get the facts straight Tim - its state highway 17, not 7. And the O&W did
owe a ton of back taxes that the state stopped forgiving when they needed
the ROW for the roadway.... :>)

Seriously, from what I understand operating costs and wages ate up nearly
all of the revenue in the later years. Considering that the O&W's route
really was fairly tortuous compared to the Erie's which ran almost parallel,
I'm always amazed that they managed to get ANY bridge traffic, but there
actually was a fair amount in the '50's. However, nearly all of the revenue
came from the Scranton-Maybrook line, and yet there were other lines and
branches that continued to be maintained and which drew down the company
coffers despite the lack of income from them.

I'm sure that copies of the annual reports are available from the O&W
Society if anybody REALLY wants to pursue this...

Bill Schneider

Heck we might as well go back to conspiracy theory -- that NYO&W
was doomed because NY wanted its right of way for state highway #7.
Tim O'Connor


Re: Per Diem and the NYO&W

Tim O'Connor
 

John, thanks for posting that. I think by the mid-50's labor costs had
escalated substantially in spite of dieselization, so the "net income"
disappeared. I'm surprised really to see NYO&W had almost a 20%
gross margin in 1941.

Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "John Hile" <john66h@...>
--- In STMFC@..., timboconnor@... wrote:


To blame the NYO&W's demise on per diem is a real stretch!
Tim,

You are absolutely correct. My choice of words ("Apparently not") was
a poor one. I should have said something like..."Apparently NYO&W's
share of revenue was not enough to offset its total operating costs,
including that of any per diem deficits."

In fact, 1941 statistics for average distribution of revenue between
types of expense and net profit is as follows:

41.1% Labor (Salaries and Wages)
16.1% Other Materials and Supplies Misc.
10.2% Taxes
5.7% Fuel
4.4% Depreciation
2.5% Hire of Equipment and Joint Facility Net Rentals
1.3% Loss and Damage, Injury to Persons, Insurance & Pensions

18.7% Net Operating Income

Note that "Car Hire" is the process which results in per diem charges.

Above numbers are from "Analysis of Railroad Operations", Joseph L.
White, Simmons-Boardman, 1946

John Hile
Blacksburg, VA


Re: DS/SS split 1938 help needed

laramielarry <ostresh@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "gary laakso" <vasa0vasa@...> wrote:

"The 1927 Great Northern car diagrams show the 8000-8499 series as
double sheathed with 8 trussrods; built by H&B; with underframes
built by Streator Car co in 1925 and that the cars were rebuilt by
Great Northern in 1925 and 1926. The diagram notes that that cars
were rebuilt from series 205000 to 208452 and 220000 to 220855."

Thanks Gary

Here is a summary of the DS/SS/Steel/Plywood split for box, auto, and
furniture cars on the GN from 1938 to 1950:

GN____Jan-38____Apr-42____Jan-45____Apr-49____Jul-50
DS____22,114____20,700____21,246____15,551____14,326
SS____3,563____3,535____3,540____3,495____3,487
Steel____0____0____0____1,000____2,499
Plywood____0____0____826____1,994____1,988
Unknown____0____0____1____0____0
Total____25,677____24,235____25,613____22,040____22,300

GN____Jan-38____Apr-42____Jan-45____Apr-49____Jul-50
DS____86.1%____85.4%____83.0%____70.6%____64.2%
SS____13.9%____14.6%____13.8%____15.9%____15.6%
Steel____0.0%____0.0%____0.0%____4.5%____11.2%
Plywood____0.0%____0.0%____3.2%____9.0%____8.9%
Unknown____0.0%____0.0%____0.0%____0.0%____0.0%
Total____100.0%____100.0%____100.0%____100.0%____100.0%

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming


Re: Per Diem

John Hile <john66h@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Imagine the size of the Belt Railway of Chicago's deficit --
they usually had 10,000 or more cars of other railroads on
their property!






Actually, as a Terminal Switching Road and/or Intermediate Switching
Road, performing those services for fixed fees, and not receiving part
of the freight rate, the Belt Railway of Chicago would have been able
to reclaim a certain amount of per diem charges based on the "Code of
Switching Reclaim Rules." IIRC, this is how the Belt Railway of
Chicago operated…and others on the list may be able to confirm this.

In general, the rules say that the switching road will use the
"average time required for the switching road to switch cars for all
roads" as a basis for reclaim of per diem. The Code of Per Diem
Rules, however, limits the total number of reclaim days to a maximum
of five for switching roads. Intermediate switching roads (handling a
car from one railroad to another) are limited to reclaim one day's per
diem only.



John Hile
Blacksburg, VA


Re: Per Diem and the NYO&W

Bill Schneider <branchline@...>
 

Get the facts straight Tim - its state highway 17, not 7. And the O&W did owe a ton of back taxes that the state stopped forgiving when they needed the ROW for the roadway.... :>)

Seriously, from what I understand operating costs and wages ate up nearly all of the revenue in the later years. Considering that the O&W's route really was fairly tortuous compared to the Erie's which ran almost parallel, I'm always amazed that they managed to get ANY bridge traffic, but there actually was a fair amount in the '50's. However, nearly all of the revenue came from the Scranton-Maybrook line, and yet there were other lines and branches that continued to be maintained and which drew down the company coffers despite the lack of income from them.

I'm sure that copies of the annual reports are available from the O&W Society if anybody REALLY wants to pursue this...

Bill Schneider

Heck we might as well go back to conspiracy theory -- that NYO&W
was doomed because NY wanted its right of way for state highway #7.
Tim O'Connor

120041 - 120060 of 195562