Date   

PRR X-31A Truck and Underframe Color Question

parkcitybranch <parkcitybranch@...>
 

I am getting ready to have a PRR X-31 painted and need to know the
color of the underframe and the trucks. According to the Sunshine
Models documentation it states the trucks were black, but I have seen
some people's models that had the trucks painted the same color as the
car body. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Jason Sanford


Re: Midland Valley composite open hopper

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

David Snook wrote:
"I am trying to find more information on Midland Valley open hoppers
in the series 9000-9024. Have plans of these cars ever been published
(the AAR design, not specifically the MV cars)? I would like to model
several of these cars in HO."

The January 1986 issue of Mainline Modeler had a prototype article on
N&W Class H-4 triples by Roy Hurlbut with plans by Bob Hundman.
Additionally, if you're interested in building these cars, you might
want to get a copy of John Munson's article in the February 1986 issue
of Mainline Modeler, where he kitbashed a model of this car from two
Athearn War Emergency twins. While the kitbash ended up being more
involved than simply cutting and splicing two kit bodies together, it's
very creative modeling that's well worth reading.
http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/ns2091.jpeg


Ben Hom


Re: Very early intermodal cars - Clejan Spinecar available in N Scale

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
SP acquired only 5 of the New Haven cars in 1961 (Note: error in Tony's SP Freight
Cars Vol. 3 book, page 296).
Not an error, Tim. The column showing "No. of car" reflects the original NH class. Note two columns to the right that car numbers were 510475-510479; also note in Table 13-1, page 278, that this number group is shown as five cars.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Very early intermodal cars - Clejan Spinecar available in N Scale

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Peter Ness wrote:
The production cars (18100-18299) were assembled by the New Haven . . . the cars were not well recieved and these same cars were sold (or leased? - need someone with SP data here) to the Southern Pacific.
Not exactly. The SP leased 50 of the cars for a few months, then bought 5 and returned the rest. I don't know why they chose to buy so few as 5. But photos and data are in my SP Freight Cars, Vol. 3, which includes flat cars.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Train Order Boards

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Armand Premo writes:

"I suspect that most members of this list are interested in prototype
operation.The movement of trains with freight and passenger cars are
rigidly controlled by schedules.Several questions regarding train order
boards:How do they function in relation to the scheduled movements of
trains?Why are they so seldom modeled?Is there a source for a model of
one."

As Andy Sperandeo points out, the topic of train order signals is out of scope for the STMFC. As Andy also points out, Tomar makes a nice model. What he did not mention, Armand, is that you have stood quite close to the fully operational Tomar train order signals at Buford on my layout. Come November when the snow [ whatever that is ] begins to accumulate to the roof tops up there and you return once again to Paradise [ assuming the named thunderstorms have vacated the area ], I'll let you operate them.

Mike Brock


Re: Train Order Boards

Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

Hello Armand,

In the first place, I think your questions are off-topic for this list, and there's another
Yahoo list, the Ry-ops-industrialSIG list, that deals directly with these matters. But here
are some brief answers:

First, the movement of freight trains has often been anything but rigidly scheduled. In the
period covered by this list many railroads operated freight trains as extras without any
timetable authority, and that's the prevailing mode in today's railroading although the
term "extra train" is no longer used. Railroads that did use second-and third-class
schedules for freight trains often used them as schedules of convenience, meaning that
any train prepared to move within the span of a given timetable schedule might use the
train number of that schedule. Second- and third-class schedules generally functioned as
moving windows of authority with a 12-hour span (because unfulfilled timetable
schedules expire after 12 hours). So that part of your premise was incorrect.

Train order signals are used in a timetable-and-train-order operating regime to indicate
whether clearances and orders are to be delivered to passing trains at a station or train
order office. (They typically aren't used at subdivision or district terminals, since all trains
require at least a clearance card at their initial station.) When three-indication signals are
used, a green or vertical aspect indicates no orders, a yellow or 45-degree aspect
indicates orders to be delivered as the train passes, or "on the fly," and a red or horizontal
aspect indicates orders requiring the conductors' or trainman's signature, meaning the
train must stop.

As to why they are so seldom modeled, most model railroads don't operate in very close
adherence to prototype rules. Those that do and that use timetable-and-train-order
movement authority usually have train-order signals of some type. Typically train order
signals are not used with Centralized Traffic Control.

In HO scale, operating train order signals are available from Tomar Industries. See the
manufacturer's listings on the NMRA Web site at www.nmra.org.

My apologies for this divergence from freight car topics.

So long,

Andy


Re: Very early intermodal cars - Clejan Spinecar available in N Scale

Tim O'Connor
 

The Southern Pacific bought 150 79'6" Clejan flat cars in 1957,
and added 100 more 85' Clejan flats in 1959. SP acquired only 5
of the New Haven cars in 1961 (Note: error in Tony's SP Freight
Cars Vol. 3 book, page 296). SP rebuilt the 79'6" cars in 1961
to 85' and reconfigured them for container service. Overland
imported models of the New Haven flats (not correct for SP's
F-50-17) in HO scale. In 1964 SP began rebuilding all of their
85' cars to 89'. )The former Clejan cars received automobile
racks.) SP bought a total of 672 79'6" or 85' piggyback flats
from 1957 to 1960. The old Athearn 85' F85 is very similar to
the 50 SP F-70-17 flats bought in 1960, and it can be used as
is for the period 1960-1965. Half of the F-70-17's were leased
to PFE 1962-1964, operating with PFF reporting marks.

All of the prototype data (and lots more) is found in Tony's
SP Freight Cars Vol. 3 book. Everyone should have these books
if nothing else for the spectacular collection of photos!

Tim O'Connor

Hi Peter,
You can feel a little less guilty about discussing the Clejan
TOFC's. The cars were originally designed and fabricated in 1955
(cars 18000-18001) for the New Haven RR. The production cars (18100-
18299) were assembled by the New Haven (Readville Shops) in 1956.
Due to the convergence of too many factors to list (but chief among
them the clumsy loading system for trailers on these cars, the
emergence of the TrailerTrain consortium and the advent of the ACF
Type 1 hitch), the cars were not well recieved and these same cars
were sold (or leased? - need someone with SP data here) to the
Southern Pacific.
Hope this helps,
Peter R. Ness


Train Order Boards

armprem
 

I suspect that most members of this list are interested in prototype
operation.The movement of trains with freight and passenger cars are
rigidly controlled by schedules.Several questions regarding train order
boards:How do they function in relation to the scheduled movements of
trains?Why are they so seldom modeled?Is there a source for a model of
one.Your feedback will be welcomed.Armand Premo


Fruit Growers Express Business Car

brionboyles
 

Hey guys!
New member, here...professional model builder, Mississippi Central (!
905-1967) fan.
I have a request to build an HO copy of the business car of the Fruit
Growers Express company. The recipient is an old gent named Durwood
Grubbs, who was a draftsman for the company in the early days in
Alexandria, VA. Have any ideas where I might find pics or info for this
car?

Thanks in advance!
Brion


Items for sale

Rob Sarberenyi <espeef5@...>
 

I have some HO scale locomotives and a variety of railroad books listed on
eBay that end tomorrow night
http://stores.ebay.com/Espee-F-5

Remember to check back later this week because I'll be posting more goodies.

Thanks for looking!


Rob Sarberenyi
espeef5@...


DS/SS split 1938 to 1950; Summary for MP

laramielarry <ostresh@...>
 

Hi Folks

Ed Hawkins has kindly given me all the information needed to complete
our knowledge of the DS/SS/Steel split for MoPac box and auto cars
from 1938 to 1950:

MP____Jan-38____Apr-42____Jan-45____Apr-49____Jul-50
DS____2,008____1,907____1,689____1,166____1,041
SS____12,179____12,078____12,023____11,870____11,837
Steel____2,500____2,615____3,581____5,156____5,150
Other____0____0____0____0____0
Unknown____0____0____0____0____0
Total____16,687____16,600____17,293____18,192____18,028

MP____Jan-38____Apr-42____Jan-45____Apr-49____Jul-50
DS____12.0%____11.5%____9.8%____6.4%____5.8%
SS____73.0%____72.8%____69.5%____65.2%____65.7%
Steel____15.0%____15.8%____20.7%____28.3%____28.6%
Other____0.0%____0.0%____0.0%____0.0%____0.0%
Unknown____0.0%____0.0%____0.0%____0.0%____0.0%
Total____100.0%____100.0%____100.0%____100.0%____100.0%

Other people who have provided information are Al Brown, Ray Breyer,
and Charles Shope. Thanks, gentlemen!

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming


Re: Midland Valley composite open hopper

proto48er
 

David -

These cars in AC&F lot #2605 also included (50) cars in Mo-Ill series
#6200-6249. I have no concrete information on the MV cars; however,
the N&W also had VERY SIMILAR triple composite hoppers of this design
built in this time frame, and models of these cars HAVE been imported
in "O" scale by PSC (#15693) as N&W class H-4. (I have never been in
HO, so do not know about it, but you might check with someone
knowledgable about PSC's HO offerings - sometimes they imported the
same model in both scales).

The MP cars had composite (wood) sides and floors when built. In the
early 1950's (out of my time frame of expertise), all the wood was
replaced with steel. (PSC imported these, too.) Later in the
1950's, a number of these cars received tight bays (like a covered
hopper in class LO) and tight roofs. They kept the original diagonal
bracing on the sides. In this configuration they were classed LO and
used to haul cement.

I measured a couple of the prototype MP hoppers years ago. When
the "O" scale PSC model was imported, it checked on all dimensions
with the MP cars; even the slope sheet angle from horizontal was
correct. If that model is available in HO, it would make life a lot
easier for you!

<Parenthetically, things are not always as they appear. The 70-ton
quad offset side hoppers on MP (and M-K-T, Erie, etc.) were found to
have a different angle of their slope sheets from horizontal when
compared to the B&O/C&O quad offset hoppers from the same builder at
the same date. This was only revealed by careful measurement of the
prototype cars!>

As for drawings, they may be in the 1943 CBC (it is at home and I am
not). I recall that my drawings were in an early "Eagle" of the
MPHS, long out of print.

A.T. Kott

--- In STMFC@..., "David" <david.snook@...> wrote:

Hello-

I am trying to find more information on Midland Valley open hoppers
in
the series 9000-9024. Built by AC&F lot 2655 in 2-44, 2580cu.ft.
Doing a search of older posts I found the following:

AAR composite Emergency
design that was also constructed for the Missouri Pacific Lines (MP
63000-64199; I-GN 65000-65099; Mo-Ill 6200-6249; St.LB&M 65250-
65499)
and the Midland Valley (9000-9024), all AC&F Lot 2605, built 1943-
1944.

The only picture I have is from Stagner's Midland Valley book.
Have
plans of these cars ever been published (the AAR design, not
specifically the MV cars)? I would like to model several
of these cars in HO.

David Snook
Wichita, Kansas


Re: Midland Valley composite open hopper

Ed Hawkins
 

On Sep 5, 2008, at 6:16 PM, David wrote:

I am trying to find more information on Midland Valley open hoppers in
the series 9000-9024. Built by AC&F lot 2655 in 2-44, 2580cu.ft.
Doing a search of older posts I found the following:

AAR composite Emergency
design that was also constructed for the Missouri Pacific Lines (MP
63000-64199; I-GN 65000-65099; Mo-Ill 6200-6249; St.LB&M 65250-65499)
and the Midland Valley (9000-9024), all AC&F Lot 2605, built
1943-1944.

The only picture I have is from Stagner's Midland Valley book. Have
plans of these cars ever been published (the AAR design, not
specifically the MV cars)? I would like to model several
of these cars in HO.
David,
The 25 MV composite emergency 70-ton hopper cars were identical to the
1,200 cars built for MoPac. There exists a series of original AC&F
drawings for the cars at the Museum of Transportation in Kirkwood, Mo.
and copies can be made.

The general arrangement drawing number is 61-4944 and brake arrangement
is 61-4945. There are a number of other drawings of various steel
details such as underframe parts, side posts, and end parts.

Contact me off-list if you are interested.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins
hawk0621@...


Re: Very early intermodal cars - Clejan Spinecar available in N Scale

Peter Ness
 

Hi Peter,

You can feel a little less guilty about discussing the Clejan
TOFC's. The cars were originally designed and fabricated in 1955
(cars 18000-18001) for the New Haven RR. The production cars (18100-
18299) were assembled by the New Haven (Readville Shops) in 1956.
Due to the convergence of too many factors to list (but chief among
them the clumsy loading system for trailers on these cars, the
emergence of the TrailerTrain consortium and the advent of the ACF
Type 1 hitch), the cars were not well recieved and these same cars
were sold (or leased? - need someone with SP data here) to the
Southern Pacific.

The NHRHTA published an article on these cars in the Association
publication "Shoreliner" a decade or so ago. You can try contacting
them at nhrhta DOT org for assistance, failing that, contact me off
group if you are interested in historical background on these cars.

Hope this helps,
Peter R. Ness
http://www.freewebs.com/newhavenrailroad1959/

--- In STMFC@..., "prbharris" <peter@...> wrote:

Just creeping into the timescales of the group - with one photograph
to my knowledge of these cars being hauled by steam too - we are
just
about to release N Scale Kits of the Clejan spine cars. Introduced
in
1959, Clejan spine cars were one of three early specific intermodal
methods, after early methods used converted flatcars.

The cars were run by Southern Pacific, New Haven, Erie and KCS. We
have used detailed drawings to produce the cars which will be
available very shortly.

Details are at
http://www.nscalekits.com
http://www.nscalekits.co.uk/clejan_spine_soon.html

The use of the cars was brief - and just out of the steam era; these
early spine cars are a classic transition car.

One of the uses of the cars was to transport autos from the Van Nuys
plant, and a specific autocarrier was developed for this operation.
Just look at those late '50s fins!

Peter

Peter Harris
N Scale Kits
www.nscalekits.com


Midland Valley composite open hopper

David
 

Hello-

I am trying to find more information on Midland Valley open hoppers in
the series 9000-9024. Built by AC&F lot 2655 in 2-44, 2580cu.ft.
Doing a search of older posts I found the following:

AAR composite Emergency
design that was also constructed for the Missouri Pacific Lines (MP
63000-64199; I-GN 65000-65099; Mo-Ill 6200-6249; St.LB&M 65250-65499)
and the Midland Valley (9000-9024), all AC&F Lot 2605, built 1943-1944.

The only picture I have is from Stagner's Midland Valley book. Have
plans of these cars ever been published (the AAR design, not
specifically the MV cars)? I would like to model several
of these cars in HO.

David Snook
Wichita, Kansas


DS/SS split 1938: ATSF help needed

laramielarry <ostresh@...>
 

Hi Folks

Can anyone identify the sheathing (single sheathed, double sheathed,
steel sheathed, other) of the following ATSF box and auto car series?
Build or re-build dates would also be useful.

Road, AAR, Kind, Series, IL, IH, Door, Capy, Qty 1938, Qty 1942
ATSF, XA, Auto, 8001-8090, 50'6", 10'4", 14'6", 80000, 88, 75
ATSF, XA, Auto, 66701-66713, 50'6", 10'0", 12'0", 80000, 10, 4
ATSF, XA, Auto, 66730-66744, 50'6", 10'2", 12'0", 80000, 15, NA
ATSF, XA, Auto, 66809-66925, 50'6", 10'0", 12'0", 80000, 54, 21
ATSF, XA, Auto, 66935-66955, 40'6", 10'0", 12'6", 80000, 16, NA
ATSF, XA, Auto, 67000-67019, 50'6", 10'0", 12'6", 80000, 15, 7
ATSF, XA, Auto, 67071-67141, 50'6", 10'0", 12'0", 80000, 18, 6
ATSF, XAR, AL, 67251-67260, 50'0", 10'0", 12'0", 80000, 10, NA
ATSF, XAR, AL, 67262-67311, 50'6", 10'2", 14'6", 100000, 50, 36
ATSF, XM, Box, 133722-134094, 35'11", 8'0", 6'0", 60000, 14, NA
ATSF, XM, Box, 269431-269900, 40'6", 10'0", 6'0", 80000, 25, 21
(AL = "Auto Loader")

Also, according to Terry Link's website "Canada Southern"
("http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/NYC-MODELS-FREIGHT.htm"), the
following NYC series were leased from the ATSF:
NYC, XA, Auto, 66800-67999, 50'3", 10'0", 10'0", 100000, 51, NA
NYC, XA, Auto, 68000-68499, 50'0", 10'0", 10'0", 110000, 10, NA

Thanks in advance for whatever help you can provide.

Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming


Re: DS/SS split 1938; "Shorties"; help needed

laramielarry <ostresh@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Larry Kline <lndkline@...> wrote:

Form Eric Neubauer, Reading freight Cars, 1900 to 1914, Chapter 9,
pp
72-77
All three series below are "Reading standard box cars" which are
double sheathed cars with a fishbelly steel center sill

Road, AAR, Kind, Series, IL, IH, Door, Capy, Qty 1938, Qty 1942
RDG, XM, Box, 15700-15999, 36'0", 8'0", 6'0", 80000, 100, 19
RDG, XM, Box, 17500-18479, 36'0", 8'0", 6'0", 80000, 381, 454
RDG, XM, Box, 18500-18699, 36'0", 8'0", 6'0", 80000, 67, 7

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA
Thanks, Larry!

Here is an update for the Reading, with your data incorporated:

RDG____Jan-38____Apr-42____Jan-45____Apr-49____Jul-50
DS____5,083____3,587____2,900____290____116
SS____689____683____677____666____665
Steel____3,379____3,889____3,866____6,831____6,821
Other____0____0____0____0____0
Unknown____20____22____14____4____0
Total____9,171____8,181____7,457____7,791____7,602

RDG____Jan-38____Apr-42____Jan-45____Apr-49____Jul-50
DS____55.4%____43.8%____38.9%____3.7%____1.5%
SS____7.5%____8.3%____9.1%____8.5%____8.7%
Steel____36.8%____47.5%____51.8%____87.7%____89.7%
Other____0.0%____0.0%____0.0%____0.0%____0.0%
Unknown____0.2%____0.3%____0.2%____0.1%____0.0%
Total____100.0%____100.0%____100.0%____100.0%____100.0%

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming


DS/SS split 1938; "Shorties"; help needed

Larry Kline
 

Form Eric Neubauer, Reading freight Cars, 1900 to 1914, Chapter 9, pp 72-77
All three series below are "Reading standard box cars" which are double sheathed cars with a fishbelly steel center sill

Road, AAR, Kind, Series, IL, IH, Door, Capy, Qty 1938, Qty 1942
RDG, XM, Box, 15700-15999, 36'0", 8'0", 6'0", 80000, 100, 19
RDG, XM, Box, 17500-18479, 36'0", 8'0", 6'0", 80000, 381, 454
RDG, XM, Box, 18500-18699, 36'0", 8'0", 6'0", 80000, 67, 7

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA


Very early intermodal cars - Clejan Spinecar available in N Scale

prbharris
 

Just creeping into the timescales of the group - with one photograph
to my knowledge of these cars being hauled by steam too - we are just
about to release N Scale Kits of the Clejan spine cars. Introduced in
1959, Clejan spine cars were one of three early specific intermodal
methods, after early methods used converted flatcars.

The cars were run by Southern Pacific, New Haven, Erie and KCS. We
have used detailed drawings to produce the cars which will be
available very shortly.

Details are at
http://www.nscalekits.com
http://www.nscalekits.co.uk/clejan_spine_soon.html

The use of the cars was brief - and just out of the steam era; these
early spine cars are a classic transition car.

One of the uses of the cars was to transport autos from the Van Nuys
plant, and a specific autocarrier was developed for this operation.
Just look at those late '50s fins!

Peter

Peter Harris
N Scale Kits
www.nscalekits.com


30-tank helium cars

Adam & Laura Eyring <eyrings06@...>
 

While looking through the archives, I found that we had discussed these cars
around a year ago (I came up on the AHM model at a flea market).

I didn't see this link in the archives, so for those interested, here's a link
to a saved car at the Gulf Coast Railroad Museum:
http://www.kingswayrc.com/gcst/roster/1237.html


Adam