Date   

Re: PRR X-31A Truck and Underframe Color Question

Lawrence Rast
 

Fair enough, Bruce. I like your thinking on this one. It gives me
rationale for several of my cars that have FCC on the trucks. :)

Best,
Lawrence Rast

On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 9:00 AM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@auburn.edu> wrote:

On Sep 7, 2008, at 10:58 PM, Lawrence Rast wrote:

Bruce,

What's your rationale for painting the trucks on "new cars that have
been built recently" FCC?

Thanks,
Lawrence Rast
That should be "on some new cars"...<G> in particular, cars built
using rebuilt trucks. On a new car, within a few years of building,
the FCC color of the trucks would still show. At any time after that
it wouldn't. Typically new trucks on a new car were black. As
always though, model from photos...

I do actually paint almost all of my trucks FCC, mostly because I am
too lazy to take them off the car when I paint it. When covered with
a grime color, the FCC is mostly hidden although some peeks through
to give a rust-like look. SO the intent there is not to make them
look like they were painted FCC, but to enhance the weathering and if
it looks like maybe some overspray from the car hit the trucks, so be
it!

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Re: PRR X-31A Truck and Underframe Color Question

Chet French <cfrench@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Gatwood, Elden J SAD "
<elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:

Tony;



I personally have zero PRR cars with painted trucks; probably none
for any
other railroad, either.



Painted trucks on the PRR, at least in my timeframe, were something
I don't
remember seeing, nor do I have photos showing them. The most
recent photo I
have seen with painted trucks was dated 1954, but I cannot assert
that I know
that to be a comprehensive answer; in modeling a big fleet, you
could
conceivably justify a few in earlier timeframes, since you have
photos to
justify it. <snip>

Elden,

Bobs's Photos offers a color photo of GLa 219656, recently repainted
with a P50 2-49 reweigh date and the trucks painted the FCC.

Chet French
Dixon, IL


Re: PRR X-31A Truck and Underframe Color Question

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Tony;



I personally have zero PRR cars with painted trucks; probably none for any
other railroad, either.



Painted trucks on the PRR, at least in my timeframe, were something I don't
remember seeing, nor do I have photos showing them. The most recent photo I
have seen with painted trucks was dated 1954, but I cannot assert that I know
that to be a comprehensive answer; in modeling a big fleet, you could
conceivably justify a few in earlier timeframes, since you have photos to
justify it.



Roofs were a whole different story, and there are enough photos to make
anyone looking for a "standard", go nuts trying to prove things one way or
the other. The Painting Instructions are confusing, so probably added to the
variety of treatments one can see. For good reason, I try to use photos for
the vast majority of my freight cars.



Elden Gatwood







________________________________

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Anthony Thompson
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 2:28 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] PRR X-31A Truck and Underframe Color Question



Gatwood, Elden J wrote:
There are many, many instances of employees (paint shop) painting
things that did not follow the "standards" being issued in the
company's instructions.
Exceptions are important, of course. But don't let yourself get
so carried away with them as to obscure the standard, which even on the
PRR <g> was presumably more common than the exceptions. Personally, I
want to know both: the standard AND the exceptions, and some notion of
how common were the latter.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
<mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com>
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: PRR X-31A Truck and Underframe Color Question

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Gatwood, Elden J wrote:
There are many, many instances of employees (paint shop) painting things that did not follow the "standards" being issued in the company's instructions.
Exceptions are important, of course. But don't let yourself get so carried away with them as to obscure the standard, which even on the PRR <g> was presumably more common than the exceptions. Personally, I want to know both: the standard AND the exceptions, and some notion of how common were the latter.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: PRR X-31A Truck and Underframe Color Question

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Guys;



I have seen pics of cars painted or repainted prior to the mid 50's that
definitely had the trucks painted FCC, even tho' it is not called for in the
instructions. Ooops.



I have also seen pics of cars painted then and later with trucks clearly
painted black, although the instruction do not call for it, either. Ooooops.



There are many, many instances of employees (paint shop) painting things that
did not follow the "standards" being issued in the company's instructions.



Let's not even get into that discussion about freight car roofs, OK?



Keep smiling,



Elden Gatwood





________________________________

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
Smith
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 9:00 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] PRR X-31A Truck and Underframe Color Question




On Sep 7, 2008, at 10:58 PM, Lawrence Rast wrote:

Bruce,

What's your rationale for painting the trucks on "new cars that have
been built recently" FCC?

Thanks,
Lawrence Rast
That should be "on some new cars"...<G> in particular, cars built
using rebuilt trucks. On a new car, within a few years of building,
the FCC color of the trucks would still show. At any time after that
it wouldn't. Typically new trucks on a new car were black. As
always though, model from photos...

I do actually paint almost all of my trucks FCC, mostly because I am
too lazy to take them off the car when I paint it. When covered with
a grime color, the FCC is mostly hidden although some peeks through
to give a rust-like look. SO the intent there is not to make them
look like they were painted FCC, but to enhance the weathering and if
it looks like maybe some overspray from the car hit the trucks, so be
it!

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2
<http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2>

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Re: MN&S express reefer

Douglas Harding <dharding@...>
 

Cyril, the photos were posted by Vern Wigfield, a retired agent for the M&StL. Vern is very generous and willing to share, I have
many photos from Vern's collection. I have noticed those he posts to the rrpicturearchives list often have the 1/1/1940 date
because he has no idea when they were taken. But looking at the photos you linked, I would say they were taken before that date.

I suggest you contact Vern, via the link on his photos. I am sure he would be more than happy to share with you what information
he has.

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: MN&S express reefer

earlyrail
 

Posted by: "Anthony Thompson" thompson@signaturepress.com sigpress
Sun Sep 7, 2008 9:41 pm (PDT)
Thomas Baker wrote:
I have long puzzled over why the MN&S leased any refrigerator cars at
all. Was there some perishable traffic on-line that the MN&S served
exclusively.
Think dairy.

Northfield, Carnation Milk, condensed milk plant.
The location was taken over by Malt-O-Meal.
The buildings have been gone for some time.


Howard Garner
formally from Randolph.


Re: ATLAS 1932 ARA BOX CAR

Bill Schneider <branchline@...>
 

They have not arrived yet at our distributing warehouse - last I heard was mid-to-late September arrival. I want one or two myself!

There have been several discussions both pro and con on other lists based on the photos posted on Atlas' web site which are likely pre-production. I think its only fair to wait until somebody has their hands on an actual production piece to make any public judgments.

Bill Schneider

----- Original Message -----
From: Brian J Carlson
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] ATLAS 1932 ARA BOX CAR


On Mon, 08 Sep 2008 12:42:50 -0000, joel norman wrote
> GENTLEMAN: WHATS THE SKINNY ON THIS CAR? WHATS THE PLUS VS.
> NEGATIVE?? Joel Norman....
>

Joel:
Ihave a few of these on order at my local shop. The release date said July.
I am still waiting on mine. I don't think these have been released yet.

Brian Carlson


Re: ATLAS 1932 ARA BOX CAR

jonespwr
 

Atlas is not so good at predicting the arrival date of its products,
but it does do a good job of keeping you informed about how late they
will be. The Atlas web site says the container with the 1932 ARA cars
was shipped August 4 (I assume from China). The Atlas shipping date
and At Dealer date are currently blank. The whole list is at
http://www.atlasrr.com/ordership.htm.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Brian J Carlson" <brian@...> wrote:

On Mon, 08 Sep 2008 12:42:50 -0000, joel norman wrote
GENTLEMAN: WHATS THE SKINNY ON THIS CAR? WHATS THE PLUS VS.
NEGATIVE?? Joel Norman....
Joel:
Ihave a few of these on order at my local shop. The release date
said July.
I am still waiting on mine. I don't think these have been released yet.

Brian Carlson


Re: ATLAS 1932 ARA BOX CAR

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

On Mon, 08 Sep 2008 12:42:50 -0000, joel norman wrote
GENTLEMAN: WHATS THE SKINNY ON THIS CAR? WHATS THE PLUS VS.
NEGATIVE?? Joel Norman....
Joel:
Ihave a few of these on order at my local shop. The release date said July.
I am still waiting on mine. I don't think these have been released yet.

Brian Carlson


Re: NC&StL 20000-21399 series XM-32 rebuilt short boxcars (was: Re: DS/SS split 1938; "Shorties"; help needed)

Ray Breyer
 

Hi Alan,

Sunshine is planning on releasing these cars at Naperville this year. I don't have their kit number handy, but these specific cars are on the meet paperwork (and Martin told me that the side rivet masters were complete about a month ago).

As for longevity, the last data I have handy says that there were 1174 of these cars in service in 1955. Over 1000 made it to the L&N buyout; I recently saw a photo float through Ebay of L&N 40729 from 1968 (the car was "patched" with the new L&N number and reporting marks, but was otherwise in the NC&STL yellow stripe scheme).

Ray Breyer

Monk Alan <Alan.Monk@tube.tfl.gov.uk> wrote:
Hi all,

On the subject of 'shorty' box cars (those of less than 40' length) has
there ever been a kit available for the N,C&St.L XM-32 class 38' steel
rebuilds in the 20000-21399 series.
http://www.ncps-576.org/equipment/rollingstock/box20034.htm

I've searched the group archives and the only reference I've found is
message #17416 from 2003 and refers to a possible F&C kit - did this
ever see the light of day?? Failing a suitable kit, I'm rather tempted
to scratchbuild one or modify anything suitable. Those ends (inverse
Hutchins??) look interesting and does anyone have details of the roof
type please?? The side panels look to be 4-equal spaced panels either
side of the door (6' door??) Is anyone aware of a drawing available
(either on-line or published) of these rebuilt cars??

And lastly, I'm assuming these rebuilt cars lasted in service for some
while? I'm setting my layout in the mid-50s.

TIA,
Alan,
London, UK


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Re: PRR X-31A Truck and Underframe Color Question

Bruce Smith
 

On Sep 7, 2008, at 10:58 PM, Lawrence Rast wrote:

Bruce,

What's your rationale for painting the trucks on "new cars that have
been built recently" FCC?

Thanks,
Lawrence Rast
That should be "on some new cars"...<G> in particular, cars built using rebuilt trucks. On a new car, within a few years of building, the FCC color of the trucks would still show. At any time after that it wouldn't. Typically new trucks on a new car were black. As always though, model from photos...

I do actually paint almost all of my trucks FCC, mostly because I am too lazy to take them off the car when I paint it. When covered with a grime color, the FCC is mostly hidden although some peeks through to give a rust-like look. SO the intent there is not to make them look like they were painted FCC, but to enhance the weathering and if it looks like maybe some overspray from the car hit the trucks, so be it!

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


ATLAS 1932 ARA BOX CAR

joel norman <mec-bml@...>
 

GENTLEMAN: WHATS THE SKINNY ON THIS CAR? WHATS THE PLUS VS. NEGATIVE??
Joel Norman....


NC&StL 20000-21399 series XM-32 rebuilt short boxcars (was: Re: DS/SS split 1938; "Shorties"; help needed)

Monk Alan <Alan.Monk@...>
 

Hi all,

On the subject of 'shorty' box cars (those of less than 40' length) has
there ever been a kit available for the N,C&St.L XM-32 class 38' steel
rebuilds in the 20000-21399 series.
http://www.ncps-576.org/equipment/rollingstock/box20034.htm

I've searched the group archives and the only reference I've found is
message #17416 from 2003 and refers to a possible F&C kit - did this
ever see the light of day?? Failing a suitable kit, I'm rather tempted
to scratchbuild one or modify anything suitable. Those ends (inverse
Hutchins??) look interesting and does anyone have details of the roof
type please?? The side panels look to be 4-equal spaced panels either
side of the door (6' door??) Is anyone aware of a drawing available
(either on-line or published) of these rebuilt cars??

And lastly, I'm assuming these rebuilt cars lasted in service for some
while? I'm setting my layout in the mid-50s.

TIA,
Alan,
London, UK


********************************************************************
The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Transport for London hereby exclude any warranty and any liability as to the quality or accuracy of the contents of this email and any attached transmitted files. If you are not the intended recipient be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this email is strictly prohibited., If you have received this email in error please notify postmaster@tfl.gov.uk., This email has been sent from Transport for London, or from one of the companies within its control within the meaning of Part V of the Local Government and Housing Act 1989. Further details about TfL and its subsidiary companies can be found at http://www.tfl.gov.uk/ourcompany, This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses.
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Re: MN&S express reefer

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Thomas Baker wrote:
I have long puzzled over why the MN&S leased any refrigerator cars at all. Was there some perishable traffic on-line that the MN&S served exclusively.
Think dairy.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: PRR X-31A Truck and Underframe Color Question

Lawrence Rast
 

Bruce,

What's your rationale for painting the trucks on "new cars that have
been built recently" FCC?

Thanks,
Lawrence Rast

On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 9:21 PM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@auburn.edu> wrote:
On Sun, September 7, 2008 5:57 pm, parkcitybranch wrote:
I am getting ready to have a PRR X-31 painted and need to know the
color of the underframe and the trucks. According to the Sunshine
Models documentation it states the trucks were black, but I have seen
some people's models that had the trucks painted the same color as the
car body. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Jason Sanford
Jason,

Underframe - FCC
Trucks - as Elden says in TKM each time he paints a car
"From the "Instructions for Painting Freight
Equipment Cars", dated January 13, 1953,
reproduced from the Pennsylvania State Archives, we
see that: "Paint all metal parts with two coats of
"Wet-on-Wet" Freight Car Paint, Acct. 47, Ref.
2383." Except when the car was new and featured
re-conditioned trucks, the trucks were not painted."

So, my trucks are usually grime colored, but on new cars that have been
built recently, I do use FCC as a change of pace.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: MN&S express reefer

Thomas Baker
 

Hmm, it is hard to imagine one of those GE cars lugging along an express refrigerator, but possible. I purchased a photo of a URTX refrigerator car leased to the MN&S. The photo was taken, I believe, in the Washington, D. C. area. I have long puzzled over why the MN&S leased any refrigerator cars at all. Was there some perishable traffic on-line that the MN&S served exclusively. After all, the outfit connected with the CGW at Randolph, Minnesota, and with the SOO LINE at Shoreham Shops, and both the CGW and the SOO leased refrigerator cars from URTX.

Tom


Re: MN&S express reefer

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

I wrote:
Well, the ORPTER did not begin publication . . .
Apologies for blindly abbreviating Ben's name for this publication. Actually it was the "Official Register of Passenger Train Equipment," or ORPTE.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Operations of Private-owner cars

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Aley, Jeff A wrote:
Would the acid have been shipped in cars leased by FMC, or in cars leased by P&G?
Yes. (or to be more specific, could be either, but usually it's the shipper.) A company which leases cars can use them as it chooses, but the most obvious reason to guarantee yourself availability of cars is to make outbound shipments in them.
On the Swift cars, I'd guess they were simply a lease fleet. The person who probably knows more on this is Richard Hendrickson, but he's in Scandinavia right now.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: MN&S express reefer

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Ben Hom wrote:
A few railroads listed express reefers and boxcars in the ORER, but most did not. You need to go the the Official Railway Passenger Train Equipment Register to find these cars.
Well, the ORPTER did not begin publication by the time the MN&S ceased passenger service. Prior to the startup of the ORPTER, many railroads DID list passenger equipment in the ORER, though in a section separate from the freight cars, normally at the end of their entry pages.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history

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