Date   

Re: "Different" flat load - Logs to Ford Motor

Bruce Smith
 

On Sep 29, 2008, at 7:48 AM, Indian640@... wrote:
The Ford operation at Iron Mountain, Michigan processed over six million
board feet of lumber every year, used for wood in Ford automobile bodies. Scrap
was burned in a central heating plant for the company operations, some excess
was feedstock for a bowling pin factory and remaining scrap was fed into a
destructive wood distillation plant; -- some of the output (acetate) of which
was used in celluloid ("Isinglass") production and with wood alcohol being
packaged and sold as "Fordzone" anti-freeze.

All of this's to say, that even outside of local harvesting the capacity and
appetite of the Iron Mountain operation was large enough to justify
importing lumber; -- for any number of uses. If the logs in question were a suitable
hardwood, either for primary use or for destructive wood distillation, then
they could (emphasize "could") be destined for Iron Mountain.

Mal Houck
Mal,

Fascinating stuff and it goes to show how really understanding an industry can add to the interest! Somehow though, I doubt that wood for such uses would have been shipped spanning 3 flat cars <VBG>.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
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Re: Pabst at the lettuce farm, 1931

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Dennis,

You might try looking for an older dictionary. Collegiate and larger dictionaries often had this information. The best place to look would be a university library in the general stacks, not the reference section (which would have current editions).

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff, library technician deluxe

Dennis Storzek wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:

I need to remind myself from time to time that our current Post
Office official abreviations are relatively recent, certainly well
past the steam era. There were no official 2 letter state
abbreviations in the era of our interest.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

That brings up an interesting point, does anyone have a link to a list
of the state abbreviations that were commonly used before the two
capital letter codes were adopted? When I try to Goggle the subject, I
gat about a million sites with the new codes, not the ones used
previously.
I'm old enough to remember the older abbreviations (and they were
written like abbreviations, capitalized first letter and followed by a
period) but only the ones I used:

Illinois Ill.
Indiana Ind.
Michigan Mich.
Minnesota Minn.
Pennsylvania Penn.
Wisconsin Wis. or Wisc.

And my all time favorite:

California Calif.

Which everyone knew meant stood for "Come and live in Florida." Old
joke :-)

Dennis


Re: "Different" flat load - Logs to Ford Motor

Malcolm H. Houck
 

--- In _STMFC@... (mailto:STMFC@...) , "Charles
Morrill" <badlands@..b> asked:
One wonders what the Ford Motor Co. was going to do with such logs in
New
Jersey? In 1929?
At one time Ford had a plant in Edgewater, NJ which was located on the
Hudson River. Maybe they used those logs as pilings.


The Ford operation at Iron Mountain, Michigan processed over six million
board feet of lumber every year, used for wood in Ford automobile bodies. Scrap
was burned in a central heating plant for the company operations, some excess
was feedstock for a bowling pin factory and remaining scrap was fed into a
destructive wood distillation plant; -- some of the output (acetate) of which
was used in celluloid ("Isinglass") production and with wood alcohol being
packaged and sold as "Fordzone" anti-freeze.

All of this's to say, that even outside of local harvesting the capacity and
appetite of the Iron Mountain operation was large enough to justify
importing lumber; -- for any number of uses. If the logs in question were a suitable
hardwood, either for primary use or for destructive wood distillation, then
they could (emphasize "could") be destined for Iron Mountain.

Mal Houck



**************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial
challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and
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Re: State Abbreviations

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

Also, older locations that might be seen in period documents:

T.H. Territory of Hawaii
T.A. Territory of Alaska
P.I. Territory of the Philippines /Commonwealth of the Philippines (Philippine Islands)
N. Mex. Terr. Territory of New Mexico
Ariz. Terr. Territory of Arizona
Okla. Terr. Territory of Oklahoma

KL


Re: "Different" flat load

ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Charles Morrill" <badlands@...> asked:
One wonders what the Ford Motor Co. was going to do with such logs in
New
Jersey? In 1929?
At one time Ford had a plant in Edgewater, NJ which was located on the
Hudson River. Maybe they used those logs as pilings.

Ed


Re: State Abbreviations

Allen Rueter
 

old state abbreviations http://havenworks.com/us/states/abbreviations/

--
Allen Rueter
StLouis MO


State Abbreviations

Eric Hansmann
 

Dennis Storzek wrote:

That brings up an interesting point, does anyone have a link to a list of the state
abbreviations that were commonly used before the two capital letter codes were adopted? When I
try to Goggle the subject, I gat about a million sites with the new codes, not the ones used
previously.

I'm old enough to remember the older abbreviations (and they were written like abbreviations,
capitalized first letter and followed by a
period) but only the ones I used:

Illinois Ill.
Indiana Ind.
Michigan Mich.
Minnesota Minn.
Pennsylvania Penn.
Wisconsin Wis. or Wisc.

And my all time favorite:

California Calif.

Which everyone knew meant stood for "Come and live in Florida." Old joke :-)
==============================================



As I understand it, the original state abbreviations never went out of style in writing, only
in posting letters. Here's a website with both styles of abbreviations.

http://www.stateabbreviations.us/

Steam era freight cars were built in nearly all of of these states.

For me West Virginia has been and always will be W. Va. It was also the original home of the
Ensign Car Works in Huntington, W. Va.

Eric Hansmann
Morgantown, W. Va.


Re: Pabst at the lettuce farm, 1931

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Andy Carlson wrote:
There were no official 2 letter state abbreviations in the era of our interest.
You must be forgetting NY.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: State Abbreviations

SUVCWORR@...
 

In a message dated 9/28/2008 10:03:50 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
eric@... writes:

Dennis Storzek wrote:

That brings up an interesting point, does anyone have a link to a list of
the state
abbreviations that were commonly used before the two capital letter codes
were adopted? When I
try to Goggle the subject, I gat about a million sites with the new codes,
not the ones used
previously.

I'm old enough to remember the older abbreviations (and they were written
like abbreviations,
capitalized first letter and followed by a
period) but only the ones I used:

Illinois Ill.
Indiana Ind.
Michigan Mich.
Minnesota Minn.
Pennsylvania Penn.
Wisconsin Wis. or Wisc.

And my all time favorite:

California Calif.

Which everyone knew meant stood for "Come and live in Florida." Old joke
:-)
==============================================



As I understand it, the original state abbreviations never went out of style
in writing, only
in posting letters. Here's a website with both styles of abbreviations.

http://www.stateabbreviations.us/

Steam era freight cars were built in nearly all of of these states.

For me West Virginia has been and always will be W. Va. It was also the
original home of the
Ensign Car Works in Huntington, W. Va.

Eric Hansmann
Morgantown, W. Va.


Try this site.

_http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:gHgLsgkTd8UJ:www.searchforancestors.com/a
rchives/oldstateabb.html+state+abbreviation+old&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&ie=UT
F-8_
(http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:gHgLsgkTd8UJ:www.searchforancestors.com/archives/oldstateabb.html+state+abbreviation+old&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&
ie=UTF-8)

Rich Orr






**************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial
challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and
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Re: "Different" flat load

rfederle@...
 

Wow...I need to watch where my fingers go on that keyboard.

Sorry about the spelling.

Robert Federle
---- rfederle@... wrote:

Clearances would be the biggest issue. As long as a set uf "Bunk" pivot and the other adjacent "bunk" wouldd slide slightly should negotiate turns OK.

Robert Federle
---- Don Worthy <don_worthy@...> wrote:
Hey, that may not have been that unusual. I have a film clip with a load like that on the Central of Georgia Railway around 1955. The only difference is that the Central's load looks like the poles were de-barked and were creosoted.
One of the fellow model railroaders in Gordon, Ga., has modeled it. Darn thing looks good and goes though 28" curves with no trouble.
 
Thanks for the photo
Don Worthy
Ivey, Ga.

--- On Sun, 9/28/08, devansprr <devans1@...> wrote:

From: devansprr <devans1@...>
Subject: [STMFC] "Different" flat load
To: STMFC@...
Date: Sunday, September 28, 2008, 11:19 AM






While checking out the ice platform at monroe, I decided to browse the
other 400+ railroad pictures. Mostly tunnel construction along the GN
- amazing photos and a gold mine if you were modeling that line in the
late '20's early 30's. Lots of GN head-end power.

Not a lot of freight car pix, but this one caught my eye as something
I have never seen modeled. Everyone seems to be doing naval guns and
big structural steel as multi-car flat loads, but this is different:

http://content. lib.washington. edu/cdm4/ item_viewer. php?CISOROOT= /pickett& CISOPTR=1385& CISOBOX=1& REC=20

Hopefully the link works. If not, the neg number is Pickett 4473.

I wonder if these were for trestle bents?

Dave Evans


















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: "Different" flat load

rfederle@...
 

Clearances would be the biggest issue. As long as a set uf "Bunk" pivot and the other adjacent "bunk" wouldd slide slightly should negotiate turns OK.

Robert Federle
---- Don Worthy <don_worthy@...> wrote:

Hey, that may not have been that unusual. I have a film clip with a load like that on the Central of Georgia Railway around 1955. The only difference is that the Central's load looks like the poles were de-barked and were creosoted.
One of the fellow model railroaders in Gordon, Ga., has modeled it. Darn thing looks good and goes though 28" curves with no trouble.
 
Thanks for the photo
Don Worthy
Ivey, Ga.

--- On Sun, 9/28/08, devansprr <devans1@...> wrote:

From: devansprr <devans1@...>
Subject: [STMFC] "Different" flat load
To: STMFC@...
Date: Sunday, September 28, 2008, 11:19 AM






While checking out the ice platform at monroe, I decided to browse the
other 400+ railroad pictures. Mostly tunnel construction along the GN
- amazing photos and a gold mine if you were modeling that line in the
late '20's early 30's. Lots of GN head-end power.

Not a lot of freight car pix, but this one caught my eye as something
I have never seen modeled. Everyone seems to be doing naval guns and
big structural steel as multi-car flat loads, but this is different:

http://content. lib.washington. edu/cdm4/ item_viewer. php?CISOROOT= /pickett& CISOPTR=1385& CISOBOX=1& REC=20

Hopefully the link works. If not, the neg number is Pickett 4473.

I wonder if these were for trestle bents?

Dave Evans


















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Mystery caboose

Bruce Smith
 

On Sun, September 28, 2008 12:52 pm, cj riley wrote:
Bruce,

I, too, was skeptical at first, but I think it's just a muddy image. If
you look real closely you can make out the double circle with 3 words, as
well as 3 lines of words ( Fast Freight Line) in the center. I would agree
that it's a WM hack.

CJ Riley
CJ, Ben,

Yeah, I'll buy that. I just spent some time comparing them, and although
they looked totally different to me, I can now see the WM features.

Neat photo of a loco in transit!

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: F&C UP PS-0 box car

cj riley <cjriley42@...>
 

Thanks, Richard. I noticed the lack of class designation, making research a little tougher.

Cj

--- On Sun, 9/28/08, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:
From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] F&C UP PS-0 box car
To: STMFC@...
Date: Sunday, September 28, 2008, 1:39 PM











On Sep 28, 2008, at 10:47 AM, cj riley wrote:



I have been poking around the archives and other sites with no
luck. Can anyone tell me the correct trucks for this model?


These cars were originally leased from Pullman and had no UP class

designation, but when the UP later purchased they they became classes

B-50-34 and B-50-35. There's a builder's photo of one in Terry

Metcalfe's UP freight car book (now, unfortunately, long out of

print) which shows them with AAR self-aligning spring-plankless

trucks. The closest HO scale match I can find is the Life-Like AAR

truck; side frames and bolster ends look right, though the journal

boxes are a bit oversize.



Richard Hendrickson



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: F&C UP PS-0 box car

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Sep 28, 2008, at 10:47 AM, cj riley wrote:

I have been poking around the archives and other sites with no
luck. Can anyone tell me the correct trucks for this model?



These cars were originally leased from Pullman and had no UP class
designation, but when the UP later purchased they they became classes
B-50-34 and B-50-35. There's a builder's photo of one in Terry
Metcalfe's UP freight car book (now, unfortunately, long out of
print) which shows them with AAR self-aligning spring-plankless
trucks. The closest HO scale match I can find is the Life-Like AAR
truck; side frames and bolster ends look right, though the journal
boxes are a bit oversize.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: "Different" flat load

Ron Smith <rpsmith@...>
 

There were Huge Logs shipped by Rail, to Glacier Park on the GN, for the Uprights of the Glacier Park Hotel. They had to arrive with the Bark intact. There is quite a display on this, in the GN Glacier Park Hotel, lots of Photos. The Hotel is a true Marvel.
Ron Smith
Carman UPRR

----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Kirkham
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 9:13 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] "Different" flat load


That's interesting. I've seen similar loads also destined for Ford Motor
Co. on the CPR and GNR, both near Vancouver, B.C. They must have been
buying everywhere. See related photos at the Vancouver Public Library site:
<http://www3.vpl.vancouver.bc.ca/spe/histphotos/photos-search.htm> and
search for 3692, 5941, 5941A, 4098, 4098A, 4098C. Now that kind of buying
surge would surely skew your freight car distribution in New Jersey or
Eastern USA wouldn't it! (personally, while the captions mention New
Jersey, I could see those being a reference to the head office, and the
actual destination could be the Rouge Plant or some other behemoth - can't
recall when those were built.

Rob Kirkham

--------------------------------------------------
From: "devansprr" <devans1@...>
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 8:19 AM
To: <STMFC@...>
Subject: [STMFC] "Different" flat load

> While checking out the ice platform at monroe, I decided to browse the
> other 400+ railroad pictures. Mostly tunnel construction along the GN
> - amazing photos and a gold mine if you were modeling that line in the
> late '20's early 30's. Lots of GN head-end power.
>
> Not a lot of freight car pix, but this one caught my eye as something
> I have never seen modeled. Everyone seems to be doing naval guns and
> big structural steel as multi-car flat loads, but this is different:
>
> http://content.lib.washington.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/pickett&CISOPTR=1385&CISOBOX=1&REC=20
>
> Hopefully the link works. If not, the neg number is Pickett 4473.
>
> I wonder if these were for trestle bents?
>
> Dave Evans
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


Re: Pabst at the lettuce farm, 1931

Ron Smith <rpsmith@...>
 

Yeah I saw both of my mistakes after I hit send, bad case of foot in mouth. What exasperated the Probem was I saw Monroe, Wn, and thought and read Morton, Washington. Morton is so small, and so out of the way, my bad.
Ron Smith
Carman UPRR

----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Krueger
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 9:19 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Pabst at the lettuce farm, 1931


Ron, the description says "Monroe, ca. 1931" meaning Monroe, circa
1931. I've often seen Wn. used to abbreviate Washington and I trust
what is on the photo more than what is on the web page.

Here is the series description for the photo collection these come from:
"The Lee Pickett collection of over 900 photographs documents scenes
from Snohomish, King and Chelan Counties in Washington State from the
early 1900s to the 1940s. Based in Index, in the heart of the Cascade
Mountains, he took thousands of photographs of that region. This
includes the towns and people of Index, Gold Bar, Scenic, and Sultan.
Local industries, such as the Heybrook Lumber Co. and Index Granite
Works, are also depicted. Pickett was perhaps best known for his job
as official photographer for the Great Northern Railway Company. A
large number of his photographs reflect the program undertaken by the
company in the 1920s to improve the line over the Cascade Mountains."

This series has many photos of the Stevens Pass line of the GN, but
unfortunately not many include freight cars.

Paul
Seattle, WA

--- In STMFC@..., "Ron Smith" <rpsmith@...> wrote:
>
> Nice Pics, but that is not Monroe, Washington. Web Page says Monroe,
Ca, (California), but label on Pic says Monroe, Wn, (Wisconson).
> Ron Smith
> Carman, UPRR
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: al_brown03
> To: STMFC@...
> Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 8:30 AM
> Subject: [STMFC] Re: Pabst at the lettuce farm, 1931
>
>
> FGEX, BREX, and WFEX cars were pooled. No more surprising to see FGEX
> cars on the GN than WFEX or BREX cars in Florida, which also commonly
> happened. See Bill Welch's essays for more detail.
>
> Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.
>
> --- In STMFC@..., water.kresse@ wrote:
> >
> > Paul,
> >
> > Great images! Semi-surprised to see FGE cars way out west.
> >
> > Why such a coarse (200 dpi) scanning rate? Hopefully, they are
> also doing Archival Quality scanning at 400-600 dpi and in TIFF
> formating (folks will want to crop and resize up, and still have 300
> dpi left for a publication). These won't stay around for ever before
> they fall apart.
> >
> > Al Kresse
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: "Paul Krueger" <kruegerp@>
> > Here is a picture taken from the icing platform at a lettuce farm in
> > Monroe, WA. Can't see much of the car sides, but there is clearly a
> > Pabst car mixed in there. Incoming load?
> >
> > http://content.lib.washington.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?
> CISOROOT=/pickett&CISOPTR=1302&CISOBOX=1&REC=16
> >
> > Two more related shots
> > http://content.lib.washington.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?
> CISOROOT=/pickett&CISOPTR=1411&CISOBOX=1&REC=17
> >
> > http://content.lib.washington.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?
> CISOROOT=/pickett&CISOPTR=1351&CISOBOX=1&REC=17
> >
> > Paul
> > Seattle, WA
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


What caboose it that

Paul Catapano
 

It is a Western Maryland Caboose, with a "Fast Freight" herald.
They did have 42" heralds on a some cabs.

Paul Catapano
Littlerock Subdivision
Atlantic Inland Railway Co.

"All it takes to start an insane asylum
is a big room and the right kind of people"

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: "Different" flat load

Jack Mullen
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Charles Morrill" <badlands@...> wrote:

One wonders what the Ford Motor Co. was going to do with such logs
in New
Jersey? In 1929?
Charlie
It's a load of piling, which could be destined for use in a foundation
or a pier.
Jack Mullen


Re: Mystery caboose

Mark Wallace
 

This cab really looks like WMRwy #1870 which had the larger WMrwy
logo/herald.

The subsequently posted #1816 sported the smaller size.

The round herald came in two sizes for cabs. Makes mixing and matching
numbers to the correct herald a little challenging when modeling WMRwy
cabs from the steam era.

HTH
Mark


Mark Wallace
Collegeville, PA


Bruce Smith wrote:



Ben

While the hack certainly looks the same, the LOGO/HERALD looks completely
different... Is the image Tim cited a WM herald that I'm not familiar
with?

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

|


Re: Mystery caboose

cj riley <cjriley42@...>
 

Bruce,

I, too, was skeptical at first, but I think it's just a muddy image. If you look real closely you can make out the double circle with 3 words, as well as 3 lines of words ( Fast Freight Line) in the center. I would agree that it's a WM hack.

CJ Riley

--- On Sun, 9/28/08, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:
From: Bruce Smith <smithbf@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Mystery caboose
To: STMFC@...
Date: Sunday, September 28, 2008, 10:44 AM











On Sun, September 28, 2008 11:39 am, benjaminfrank_ hom wrote:

Tim O'Connor asked:
"Can anyone identify the logo on the caboose in this picture?"
http://img.villagep hotos.com/ p/2006-1/ 1137438/g021. jpg
Western Maryland.
http://www.railroad .net/articles/ railfanning/ northeastcaboose s/media/cab
-06.jpg
Ben Hom


Ben



While the hack certainly looks the same, the LOGO/HERALD looks completely

different... Is the image Tim cited a WM herald that I'm not familiar

with?



Regards

Bruce



Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL





























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