Date   

Re: Loading tank cars with tung oil, 1929

Bill Kelly
 

The P2K AC&F type 21 tank car model has these springs on the sides of the
draft gear box.
They would look better with scale width boxes as Dennis says.
Later,
Bill Kelly


Dennis Storzek wrote:
Tim,

They are the springs that load the shock absorbing wedges in
Cardwell
and some other brands of draft gear. Real common during the
twenties,
ARA draft sill standards show the location of the slots these
springs
protrude through, although I think their inclusionwas optional.
UTLX
liked these draft gears, and they really show on a model of a car
with
high walkways, but you need a scale width draft gear "box" to have
the
whole affair look correct.

Unfortunately, the Cardwell name has been reused in recent times, so
I
can't find a web link to an illustration, but they were well
illustrated in the CBCs of the day. The outer springs were about
the
size of truck springs, about 5" in diameter, and projected 9" 10"
out
from the web of the center sills, and were retained by a large cast
washer. Grandt Line has some model cast washers intended for truss
rods that would work.

Dennis
____________________________________________________________
Help is here! Click now for simple and easy Financial Advice.
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Re: draft gear [was: Re: Loading tank cars with tung oil, 1929]

Richard Brennan <brennan8@...>
 

This looks -very- similar to the GrandLine #120 draft gear for O-scale...
is #5125 the same for HO ???

--------------------
Richard Brennan - San Leandro CA
--------------------

At 08:12 AM 9/30/2008, Dennis Storzek wrote:
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, timboconnor@... wrote:


If you zoom in at 100% you can see large coil springs in a horizontal
position at the level of the draft gear. What the heck is that? Or could
it be coiled pipes?

Tim O'Connor
Tim,

They are the springs that load the shock absorbing wedges in Cardwell
and some other brands of draft gear. Real common during the twenties,
ARA draft sill standards show the location of the slots these springs
protrude through, although I think their inclusionwas optional. UTLX
liked these draft gears, and they really show on a model of a car with
high walkways, but you need a scale width draft gear "box" to have the
whole affair look correct.

Unfortunately, the Cardwell name has been reused in recent times, so I
can't find a web link to an illustration, but they were well
illustrated in the CBCs of the day. The outer springs were about the
size of truck springs, about 5" in diameter, and projected 9" 10" out
from the web of the center sills, and were retained by a large cast
washer. Grandt Line has some model cast washers intended for truss
rods that would work.


Re: Loading tank cars with tung oil, 1929

brianehni <behni@...>
 

And here I thought they were centering springs for the full-scale Kadees!

8^)

Brian Ehni

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Dennis Storzek" <destorzek@...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, timboconnor@ wrote:


If you zoom in at 100% you can see large coil springs in a horizontal
position at the level of the draft gear. What the heck is that? Or could
it be coiled pipes?

Tim O'Connor
Tim,

They are the springs that load the shock absorbing wedges in Cardwell
and some other brands of draft gear. Real common during the twenties,
ARA draft sill standards show the location of the slots these springs
protrude through, although I think their inclusionwas optional. UTLX
liked these draft gears, and they really show on a model of a car with
high walkways, but you need a scale width draft gear "box" to have the
whole affair look correct.

Unfortunately, the Cardwell name has been reused in recent times, so I
can't find a web link to an illustration, but they were well
illustrated in the CBCs of the day. The outer springs were about the
size of truck springs, about 5" in diameter, and projected 9" 10" out
from the web of the center sills, and were retained by a large cast
washer. Grandt Line has some model cast washers intended for truss
rods that would work.

Dennis


Re: Loading tank cars with tung oil, 1929

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, timboconnor@... wrote:


If you zoom in at 100% you can see large coil springs in a horizontal
position at the level of the draft gear. What the heck is that? Or could
it be coiled pipes?

Tim O'Connor
Tim,

They are the springs that load the shock absorbing wedges in Cardwell
and some other brands of draft gear. Real common during the twenties,
ARA draft sill standards show the location of the slots these springs
protrude through, although I think their inclusionwas optional. UTLX
liked these draft gears, and they really show on a model of a car with
high walkways, but you need a scale width draft gear "box" to have the
whole affair look correct.

Unfortunately, the Cardwell name has been reused in recent times, so I
can't find a web link to an illustration, but they were well
illustrated in the CBCs of the day. The outer springs were about the
size of truck springs, about 5" in diameter, and projected 9" 10" out
from the web of the center sills, and were retained by a large cast
washer. Grandt Line has some model cast washers intended for truss
rods that would work.

Dennis


Alco Models Greenviile Well Hole Flatcar Model

Scott Seders
 

How accurate is the model? Could someone tell me or point me towards a listings of roads that had these cars?

Thanks,
Scott Seders


Re: Loading tank cars with tung oil, 1929

Tim O'Connor
 

If you zoom in at 100% you can see large coil springs in a horizontal
position at the level of the draft gear. What the heck is that? Or could
it be coiled pipes?

Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Garth G. Groff" <ggg9y@virginia.edu>
Paul,

Very interesting photos. Thanks. Does anyone know the use of that little
arched pipe on the foremost tank car in the second photo? I think I've
seen this before in photos of TCX on cars in tar service.

Interesting name for the ship, "Alabama Maru". Could Alabama also be a
Japanese word? I would not be surprised if this ship ended up on the
bottom of some sound during WWII, perhaps carrying a different name.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Paul Krueger wrote:
With the recent discussion of tank car loading, I thought I'd share
these two photos I stumbled upon this morning.

You can zoom in on the image by clicking it. The cars in the first
image are STCX.

Tiny url:
http://tiny.cc/Cx1vN

Full link:
http://digitum.washingtonhistory.org/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/curtis&CISOP
TR=399&CISOBOX=1&REC=10

Tiny url:
http://tiny.cc/TJZzH

Full link:
http://digitum.washingtonhistory.org/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/curtis&CISOP
TR=400&CISOBOX=1&REC=11

Paul
Seattle, WA


Re: P2K 10,000 gal. tank cars

Bruce Smith
 

On Sep 29, 2008, at 8:55 AM, ed_mines wrote:

Forgive me if this question was answered before, but what were some
common prototypes for the aforementioned model?
Ed,
The P2k model is the AC&F type 21.

Or do you mean common reporting marks/schemes? As with almost all tank cars, private owners dominate. The largest fleet was probably in AC&F's own lease fleet, SHPX. AFAIK, Richard has provided the data to P2K for all or most of the paint and lettering schemes that have been produced, so unlike most other decorated cars, my usual assumption with P2K tank cars is that the P&L is correct. HOWEVER, you must be aware that not all P&L is correct for every era, so research particular cars in the archives if you have a question. The AC&F tank car book (Kaminski) is of limited use for this aspect as most photos are builders photos of cars in the 1920s, and there was a lot of repainting etc over the years. OTOH, the book is excellent for showing the details and the progression of tank cars.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
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Re: Loading tank cars with tung oil, 1929

Bruce Smith
 

Tiny url:
http://tiny.cc/Cx1vN

Full link:
http://digitum.washingtonhistory.org/cdm4/item_viewer.php? CISOROOT=/curtis&CISOPTR=399&CISOBOX=1&REC=10
On Sep 30, 2008, at 7:57 AM, Garth G. Groff wrote:

Paul,

Very interesting photos. Thanks. Does anyone know the use of that little
arched pipe on the foremost tank car in the second photo? I think I've
seen this before in photos of TCX on cars in tar service.

Interesting name for the ship, "Alabama Maru". Could Alabama also be a
Japanese word? I would not be surprised if this ship ended up on the
bottom of some sound during WWII, perhaps carrying a different name.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff
Why speculate? Why not look it up? She was wrecked the year after the photo.

Osaka Shosen Kaisha company
Alabama Maru
Built 1920
Feb.1930 wrecked near Cape Inuboye on voyage Victoria B.C. to Yokohama.
9,695 tons

Typical voyages (Shanghai-Puget Sound Service)
Outbound: Shanghai, Kobe, Yokkaichi, Shimidzu (from May), Yokohama, Victoria, Seattle, Vancouver, Seattle.
Return voyages: Seattle, Victoria, Yokohama, Kobe, Osaka, Moji, Shanghai.

Given that OSK had the Hawaii Maru and Arizona Maru, it seems likely that she was named after the state of Alabama. Seems like globalization isn't a new concept ;^)

Typical voyages:
Shanghai, Kobe, Yokkaichi, Shimidzu (from May), Yokohama, Victoria, Seattle, Vancouver, Seattle.
Return voyages: Seattle, Victoria, Yokohama, Kobe, Osaka, Moji, Shanghai.

Why is this relevant to seam era freight cars? Because when I saw the photo, it immediately harkened to unloading molasses at the Port of Mobile, Alabama. It seems clear that there was a significant traffic in vegetable derived liquids to multiple ports, which were then trans-shipped by tank car.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Re: Loading tank cars with tung oil, 1929

Ian Cranstone
 

On 30-Sep-08, at 8:57 AM, Garth G. Groff wrote:
Interesting name for the ship, "Alabama Maru". Could Alabama also be a
Japanese word? I would not be surprised if this ship ended up on the
bottom of some sound during WWII, perhaps carrying a different name.
CN LINES ran an article a while back on Point Ellice which contained a number of photos of ships. As part of the preparation of that article, I discovered that there are extensive internet resources on ship history (being curious about the ships featured in the photos), and a quick Google search proved the Alabama Maru to be no exception.

According to:

www.theshipslist.com/ships/lines/osk.htm

, the Alabama Maru was a 9,695 ton ship constructed in 1920, and was wrecked near Cape Inuboye in February 1930 on voyage Victoria B.C. to Yokohama, so didn't survive long after this photo. Garth is right though, many of the others listed on this site were indeed sent to the bottom by various means by Allied forces.

As for the name, I see a number of ships listed on this page with non- Japanese names, such as the Africa Maru, Alaska Maru, Alps Maru, Amazon Maru, America Maru, Andes Maru, Arabia Maru, Argentina Maru and Arizona Maru (and that's just the A's), so I presume that Japanese names were not essential.

Ian Cranstone
Osgoode, Ontario, Canada
lamontc@nakina.net
http://freightcars.nakina.net
http://siberians.nakina.net


NEFF RPM Update

bnpmodeler
 

Greetings all; pardon the cross-posting; here is the latest update
for the meet; as mentioned, it would be most helpful if you could
send an e-mail to neffrpm@yahoo.com to let us know you are planning
on attending, so that we can gauge attendance and lunch numbers.

Jim

Northeastern Fallen Flags RPM Meet
October, 11th, 2008, 9AM – 5 PM
LH Taylor Firehouse
High Bridge, NJ

The first annual Northeast Fallen Flags Railroad Prototype Modeling
meet will take place on Saturday, October 11, 2008, at the LH Taylor
Firehouse, 7 Maryland Avenue, High Bridge, NJ 08829. High Bridge is
easily accessible from Interstate 78, NJ Route 22 and 31 and County
Road 513, and is not far from routes 206, 46, I-287 and I-80.

As with all RPM meets, the main focus of this gathering is for
modelers to get together and bring any models they are working on or
have finished, for display and discussion and learning. The model
display is the heart of any RPM meet, so bring your work to show
around. There are plenty of tables set to a comfortable height for
viewing.

Aside from the model display, activities and clinics confirmed
include:

Dave Goessling is preparing a self-guided tour of the High Bridge
area, identifying local railroad and industrial landmarks of
interest; the station, wye, Taylor Wharton plant and railroad, and a
short walk down the branch. There will be a booklet including maps,
photos and postcard views, descriptive text drawn from books,
anecdotes and of course directions. If there's enough interest, Dave
would like to open this walking tour to the general public, so
suggestions, additions and new information is welcome for future
editions!

Paul Tupaczewski: Analysis of the EL/CNJ operations of pool trains ES-
99/SE-98

Jim Harr: Modeling the Lackawanna's Delaware River viaduct in HO
scale, using blue foam and a hot-wire cutting machine

David Ramos: Rail Interaction on the West Side of Manhattan,
discussing the NYC, Erie, and LV operations and modeling

Ralph Heiss will be setting up a display where he will be doing "live
weathering"....Not really a hands-on clinic or presentation as such,
but more of a live demonstration using chalks, airbrushes, and
washes, in order to show the different techniques and how to use the
different mediums to get the result you are looking for, and with
plenty of inspirational photographs of both models and the prototype
to hopefully get people interested in weathering their equipment. It
has been said that a model is only as good as its paint (and
weathering) job!

There will also be prototype model vendors in attendance, and those
currently confirmed to attend include:

Stella Scale Models (laser cut prototype models and accessories in HO)
Shortline Products (Northeastern prototype RR models and parts)
Amesville Shops (Pre-1900 prototype HO scale car models)

Hours are 9 AM until 5 PM, and a pizza and pasta luncheon is planned.
Admission, including lunch, is $15.00 at the door.

We have created a Yahoo! Group for this meet; please visit
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/neffrpm/ to sign up for the latest
news. If you have a presentation or clinic you would like to show, or
would like to inquire about vending, or can volunteer to pick up
commuters at Somerville or Raritan, please contact us at
neffrpm@yahoo.com. Directions to the Firehouse will be posted on the
Yahoo! site as well.

So that we may have an idea of expected attendance, please send an e-
mail to neffrpm@yahoo.com to let us know you are planning on
attending,

We hope to see you in October!

Jim Harr
Ralph Heiss
Dave Goessling
Paul Tupaczewski


Re: Loading tank cars with tung oil, 1929

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Paul,

Very interesting photos. Thanks. Does anyone know the use of that little arched pipe on the foremost tank car in the second photo? I think I've seen this before in photos of TCX on cars in tar service.

Interesting name for the ship, "Alabama Maru". Could Alabama also be a Japanese word? I would not be surprised if this ship ended up on the bottom of some sound during WWII, perhaps carrying a different name.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Paul Krueger wrote:

With the recent discussion of tank car loading, I thought I'd share
these two photos I stumbled upon this morning.
You can zoom in on the image by clicking it. The cars in the first
image are STCX.

Tiny url:
http://tiny.cc/Cx1vN

Full link:
http://digitum.washingtonhistory.org/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/curtis&CISOPTR=399&CISOBOX=1&REC=10

Tiny url:
http://tiny.cc/TJZzH

Full link:
http://digitum.washingtonhistory.org/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/curtis&CISOPTR=400&CISOBOX=1&REC=11

Paul
Seattle, WA


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




Loading tank cars with tung oil, 1929

Paul Krueger <kruegerp@...>
 

With the recent discussion of tank car loading, I thought I'd share
these two photos I stumbled upon this morning.

You can zoom in on the image by clicking it. The cars in the first
image are STCX.

Tiny url:
http://tiny.cc/Cx1vN

Full link:
http://digitum.washingtonhistory.org/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/curtis&CISOPTR=399&CISOBOX=1&REC=10

Tiny url:
http://tiny.cc/TJZzH

Full link:
http://digitum.washingtonhistory.org/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/curtis&CISOPTR=400&CISOBOX=1&REC=11

Paul
Seattle, WA


Re: tank car footboards was LBRX 201 (tank car) w/interior view

Bill Kelly
 

The United States Safty Appliances, Standard said that tank cars built
after May 1, 1917 or old tanks placed on new steel underframes after that
date must be equipped with one dome platform, one ladder, one dome
platform handhold and one dome handhold. "Location - On the brake mast
side of the car leading to the dome". This is the way it reads in the
1961 Car Builder's Cyclopedia, the latest version I have and beyond the
interest of this list.
Later,
Bill Kelly

Richard Hendrickson wrote:

Published builder's photos of tank cars typically were 3/4 views of

the left side from the B end, and when cars had only one dome
footboard, it was almost always on the left side. So Brian is right

about that. However, I have many in-service shots that show the
"blank" right sides of cars which had only single dome footboards.

Rule of thumb (which, like most rules of thumb, has exceptions):
Postwar welded cars like those modeled by RC almost always had two

footboards, and AC&F Type 27s as modeled by IM usually had them, but

many Type 21s and other tank cars built in the 1920s had only one.

This was notably the case with Union Tank Line cars built in the
1920s, both the X-3s and X-4s of their own design and the cars they

purchased from GATC and other builders which were of the car
builders' designs. It was also true of the cars built in the 1920s

for North American. On the other hand, all Shippers Car Line cars

appear to have had two footboards, even cars by other builders than

AC&F which were acquired second-hand. The cars General American
built for itself in the 1920s and later had two dome footboards, but

earlier GATC cars only had one, and it's hard to generalize about
the
GATX fleet in any case because it included so many cars purchased
second and third hand; I have a number of photos of GATX cars built

by AC&F, STC, etc. which had only one dome footboard as late as the

1940s and early '50s.

Richard Hendrickson
____________________________________________________________
Click here to compare prices and features on point of sale systems.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3l5Gmez1pk3jUyZUcARlh0OX8120lep0JmiamefWw39OyqhT/


Re: tank car footboards was LBRX 201 (tank car) w/interior view

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Sep 29, 2008, at 1:59 PM, Brian J Carlson wrote:

Is there an easy to tell which cars had one footboard. Builder's
photos
always show them (ok Richard will probably pull out a photo that
doesn't
have them now), and in-service shots usually show them. All my P2k,
RC, and
IM tank cars are running around with dual boards since I don't know
which,
if any, had single ones.






Published builder's photos of tank cars typically were 3/4 views of
the left side from the B end, and when cars had only one dome
footboard, it was almost always on the left side. So Brian is right
about that. However, I have many in-service shots that show the
"blank" right sides of cars which had only single dome footboards.
Rule of thumb (which, like most rules of thumb, has exceptions):
Postwar welded cars like those modeled by RC almost always had two
footboards, and AC&F Type 27s as modeled by IM usually had them, but
many Type 21s and other tank cars built in the 1920s had only one.
This was notably the case with Union Tank Line cars built in the
1920s, both the X-3s and X-4s of their own design and the cars they
purchased from GATC and other builders which were of the car
builders' designs. It was also true of the cars built in the 1920s
for North American. On the other hand, all Shippers Car Line cars
appear to have had two footboards, even cars by other builders than
AC&F which were acquired second-hand. The cars General American
built for itself in the 1920s and later had two dome footboards, but
earlier GATC cars only had one, and it's hard to generalize about the
GATX fleet in any case because it included so many cars purchased
second and third hand; I have a number of photos of GATX cars built
by AC&F, STC, etc. which had only one dome footboard as late as the
1940s and early '50s.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: "Different" flat load - Logs to Ford Motor

Robert Kessler
 

Having visited the Ford Edgewater, NJ plant with a high school honor
group some 55 years ago I can vouch for the fact a substantial portion
of the assembly line was on a pier built over the Hudson River.

Bob Kessler


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Indian640@... wrote:

--- In _STMFC@..._ (mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com) , "Charles
Morrill" <badlands@...> asked:
One wonders what the Ford Motor Co. was going to do with such
logs in
New
Jersey? In 1929?
At one time Ford had a plant in Edgewater, NJ which was located on the
Hudson River. Maybe they used those logs as pilings.


The Ford operation at Iron Mountain, Michigan processed over six
million
board feet of lumber every year, used for wood in Ford automobile
bodies. Scrap
was burned in a central heating plant for the company operations,
some excess
was feedstock for a bowling pin factory and remaining scrap was fed
into a
destructive wood distillation plant; -- some of the output (acetate)
of which
was used in celluloid ("Isinglass") production and with wood alcohol
being
packaged and sold as "Fordzone" anti-freeze.

All of this's to say, that even outside of local harvesting the
capacity and
appetite of the Iron Mountain operation was large enough to justify
importing lumber; -- for any number of uses. If the logs in question
were a suitable
hardwood, either for primary use or for destructive wood
distillation, then
they could (emphasize "could") be destined for Iron Mountain.

Mal Houck



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challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and
information, tips and
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Re: Pabst at the lettuce farm, 1931

Jim Sabol
 

The icing and cold storage facility in Monroe Washington was in "downtown" Monroe and not at the farm. However the farm was only about two spits west of downtown, not far from about where today's Highway 522 overpass is. In one of the icing platform shots, you can see the GN station. In the farm shot, you can line up your line of vision with the hill where the current reformatory is located as well as the site of Monroe High School. Monroe is the center of much truckfarm and dairy activity as well as lettuce farms. Monroe also grew the flowers for all or most of the GN dining cars in the division. Jim here, having enjoyed breakfast for years at Petosa's, not far from where the cold storage facility was located.


Re: Pabst at the lettuce farm, 1931

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Sep 29, 2008, at 3:47 PM, George A. Walls wrote:

Wasn't the Volstead Act still in place in 1931? If so, the car would
not have been used for Beer transport. During this time Pabst
Brewiing Co. was making cheese. A load of cheese being iced?




Ah, George, as you will learn from my book on billboard reefers when
you receive it - you HAVE ordered it, I trust? - the major brewers
survived prohibition by marketing not only malt-flavored cheese
products but non-alcoholic malt tonics and malt syrup, which was
widely used to make home brew. By 1931, the end of the Volstead act
was on the horizon and brewers like Pabst were beginning to lease
billboard reefers in growing numbers in order to get their names in
front of the public in advance of the time when they could legally
market beer. So the car in question might have been loaded with
Pabst-ett malt-flavored cheese, but it was equally likely to have
been carrying malt syrup beverages.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Pabst at the lettuce farm, 1931

ATSF1226
 

Wasn't the Volstead Act still in place in 1931? If so, the car would
not have been used for Beer transport. During this time Pabst
Brewiing Co. was making cheese. A load of cheese being iced?

George A Walls




Nobody knows, or will ever know, what that Pabst car was doing
there. And speculation is just that - speculation. But let's cut
to
the chase here. The evidence we have from other sources strongly
suggests that the use of such a leased car to transport
commodities
for a shipper other that the lessee was unusual, whether it was
actually happening in this particular case or not. If I were
modeling the early 1930s, I'd avoid modeling a beer reefer being
loaded with lettuce as being unlikely and implausible, and I'd
certainly avoid waving this photo around as evidence that it
MIGHT
have happened. Otherwise I'd find myself sliding down the
slippery
slope from historically accurate scale modeling to the tiresome
refrain, "it's my model railroad and I can do whatever I like."

Richard Hendrickson



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Pabst at the lettuce farm, 1931

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

John Stokes wrote:
Tony,
That could be a plausible explanation, but still just somewhat informed guess work. My point was that this was apparently from the evidence not a general commercial icing facility, but one for this specific lettuce farm, which was an extensive enterprise at the time. However, it is certainly possible that other refigerator cars were also iced there on contract.
Yes, you did say that, John, and my e-mail should not have suggested otherwise. I was concerned about others who might jump to such a conclusion.

Certainly a number of railroads had their own icing facilities, and the apple and pear orchards in Eastern Washington also had extensive storage and icing facilities. Could have been railroad owned for all we know in both places, or could have been some independent facilities.
All the big operators, PFE, SFRD, FGE, all contracted with local ice plants in many, many locations. They only owned the truly big ones. So independent is a much better guess in most cases. But I should emphasize that this contractor was USUALLY an ice company, like Union Ice in California, not a shipper. Many big shippers did have ice decks, but contracting with them was less usual than with ice companies.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Pabst at the lettuce farm, 1931

Stokes John
 

But Al, you still haven't learned anything from the flagging, I hope you didn't mean flogging, of this interesting topic? Actually there are some arcane but useful gems intertwined with the bouncing balls. Oh well, at least it is a festive topic, all Red, White and Blue Ribbon beer.

John S.



To: STMFC@yahoogroups.comFrom: water.kresse@comcast.netDate: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 22:23:30 +0000Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Pabst at the lettuce farm, 1931

Let's have a Pabst beer for everyone on the list that is still flagging this discussion. I remember having to take those d#*@-bottles back for my Dad. He had to have his Milwaukee beer down in the Chicago subs.Al Kresse-------------- Original message -------------- From: John Stokes <ggstokes@msn.com> Tony,That could be a plausible explanation, but still just somewhat informed guess work. My point was that this was apparently from the evidence not a general commercial icing facility, but one for this specific lettuce farm, which was an extensive enterprise at the time. However, it is certainly possible that other refigerator cars were also iced there on contract. I think it is neat that such a possibility exists that large "farms" at the time had their own facilities. Certainly a number of railroads had their own icing facilities, and the apple and pear orchards in Eastern Washington also had extensive storage and icing facilities. Could have been railroad owned for all we know in both places, or could have been some independent facilities. Different is better, but we really don't know in the absence of paper documentation. But clearly a Pabst refrigerator car found itself at an icing facility near a large lettuce farm in Western Washington in 1931, and what a wonderful find.John StokesBellevue, WATo: STMFC@yahoogroups.comFrom: thompson@signaturepress.comDate: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 14:21:14 -0700Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Pabst at the lettuce farm, 1931John Stokes wrote:> But to continue to make the unproven assumption that this icing > facility was just somewhere else out in the middle of nowhere for > general use and not at the Frye Lettuce Farm is just idle speculation > that goes against the facts.John, it was common for commercial ice facilities such as this one to contract with refrigerator car owners for icing and re-icing. It does not "go against the facts" nor is it "idle" to state that the Pabst car may have been there for re-icing.Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.comPublishers of books on railroad history

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