Date   

Re: Pabst at the lettuce farm, 1931

earlyrail
 

.
Re: Pabst at the lettuce farm, 1931
Posted by: "John Stokes" ggstokes@msn.com johnstokes39
Tue Sep 30, 2008 7:47 pm (PDT)

To get to freight car relevance. There is a great photo in the
NWSL reprint of the Seattle Car & Foundry Co. 1913 Railroad and
ogging Equipment Catalog of a Frye & Company Refrigerator Line
efrigerator car that was very interesting. It was apparently grey or
yellow in color with bold black lettering
in an arc, over almost the whole side, with the refrigerator doors on
the far left of the car at diagonal corners, and a steel fish belly frame.
34' long. They had three tracks of meat hooks and shipped the
meat hanging on the hooks for easy and fast unloading, so the copy said.
But no telling if they ran in the STMF timeframe. It does seem as if
Mr. Frye was in the meat packing business before he failed at lettuce, the field kind. Nice to know he was ultimately successful with the other kind of "lettuce" even despite the Depression.



The year 1913 is within the STMFC guide lines of 1900-1960. Just because most concentrate on the 40's and 50's does not change it.

Howard Garner


Re: Alco Models Greenviile Well Hole Flatcar Model

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Guys;



The Alco Models well flat I have seen labeled as the "Greenville Well Hole"
looks very much like a PRR F33. It has been ages since I saw one, but that
was what it looked like. I cannot vouch for its accuracy, since I never had
the opportunity to sit down and really examine one. I would also very much
like to see some photos.



Thanks,



Elden Gatwood





________________________________

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
Smith
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 3:12 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Alco Models Greenviile Well Hole Flatcar Model




On Sep 30, 2008, at 9:51 AM, sseders@comcast.net
<mailto:sseders%40comcast.net> wrote:

How accurate is the model? Could someone tell me or point me
towards a listings of roads that had these cars?

Thanks,
Scott Seders
Scott,

A photo would be helpful.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2
<http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2>

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
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| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


MILW interchange carload data

Paul Krueger <kruegerp@...>
 

I've added some Copeland interchange data for the Milwaukee in the
files area:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/MILW%20interchange%20data/

Included are a full sheet for 1956 and partial sheets covering 1953,
1954, and 1955. The partial sheets are put together from 8.5x11
photocopies that didn't cover the whole sheet. All of them have been
cut and pasted into an 8.5x11 format. I apologize that the quality is
uneven, but I did what I could with the photocopies I have. If you're
having trouble reading something important, let me know off-list and
I'll see if I can help.

I have a question and a request.

My question is why are carloads interchanged to a terminal/belt line
(like EJ&E) listed with the road they were interchanged to next (like
the IC)? How is this different than a car being turned over to the
NKP to hand over to the LV, other than the fact the former case
completely occurs within the Chicago switching district?

My request is for help with interchange data for the MILW (Chicago,
Milwaukee & Gary prior to 1930) at the following Illinois stations:
Aurora: CB&Q, C&NW, EJ&E
DeKalb: C&NW, CGW
Delmar: NYC
Joliet: Alton/C&A/GM&O, ATSF, MC/NYC, EJ&E, RI
Manhattan: Wabash
Momence: C&EI, NYC
Rockford: CB&Q, C&NW, IC
Wilkinson: CGW

Thanks,
Paul
Seattle, WA


Re: Pabst at the lettuce farm, 1931

Stokes John
 

Joe, That lettuce farm was big. I concur with your latest post, that was what I thought from seeing all the photos on the site, an amazing place and it was clear from other photos that the icing facility was right next to the fields. Frye also grew peas according to another photo, and probably more produce.

To get to freight car relevance. There is a great photo in the NWSL reprint of the Seattle Car & Foundry Co. 1913 Railroad and Logging Equipment Catalog of a Frye & Company Refrigerator Line refrigerator car that was very interesting. It was apparently grey or yellow in color with bold black lettering in an arc, over almost the whole side, with the refrigerator doors on the far left of the car at diagonal corners, and a steel fish belly frame. 34' long. They had three tracks of meat hooks and shipped the meat hanging on the hooks for easy and fast unloading, so the copy said. But no telling if they ran in the STMF timeframe. It does seem as if Mr. Frye was in the meat packing business before he failed at lettuce, the field kind. Nice to know he was ultimately successful with the other kind of "lettuce" even despite the Depression.

Thanks for the continued diligence in research.

John Stokes
Bellevue, WA





To: STMFC@yahoogroups.comFrom: jberger@marshallremc.coopDate: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 00:33:49 +0000Subject: [STMFC] Re: Pabst at the lettuce farm, 1931



Further research:"Throughout the 1920s and 1930s Charles invested inreal estate, industry, farms, ranches, gold mines, and oil wells. Hebuilt industrial warehouses for firms such as Frigidaire and BuickMotor Co. After purchasing 2,000 acres of land in Monroe, Fryeestablished an industrial scale lettuce farm with processingfacilities, six narrow-gauge railroad tracks, and a plant thatproduced 200 tons of ice per day. The lettuce farm failed financiallybecause of the Depression, but Frye was able to retain the meatpacking plant, business investments and the art collection. The Fryebusiness expanded to include cattle, sheep, hog, and chicken ranchingin several western states, later expanding to include a large scalemeat processing plant with retail sales outlets stretching fromCalifornia to Alaska. During these prosperous times Charles and Emmawere able to travel to Europe and collect art."(fromhttp://calendar.thenewstribune.com/seattle-wa/venues/show/9367-frye-art-museum


HO scale items for sale

Fred Mullins
 

Below listed New items are HO scale and prices do not include
shipping/ins. Contact me off-list if interested.

Atlas RS-3 Southern #2133 black/white stripe $50 NIB

Stewart Baldwin VO-1000 SAL $40

SRHA southern low side 11-rib gons 3 kits w/roman decals $30 each

Intermountian tank cars RTR all 3 cars as a set for $40
Blecher Oil co. #114
Hercules Powders #1708
Woburn Degreasing Co. #20210

Thanks
Fred Mullins


Re: Pabst Car

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Sep 30, 2008, at 12:26 PM, michael bishop wrote:

During the Prohibtion in the United States on the Federal level
from January 29, 1920 to March 22, 1933 ( this allowed 3.2 beer and
some wines) then December 5, 1933 when the The Eighteenth Amendment
was repealed with ratification of the Twenty-first Amendent became
law. How were the beer reefers used? If leased, were turned back
into the leaseing company and used how ever needed? If company
owned, were the sold off, placed into a lease to someone else? 13
years is a long time for cars sit around and do nothing.
As I've note in another post, the large breweries continued to make
malt beverages, malt syrup (for home brewing, which remained legal),
and other non-alcoholic products and these were shipped in
refrigerator cars (used mostly, as others have pointed out, as RBs
with no ice in the bunkers). Surplus cars owned by the car leasing
companies were returned to their owners and leased to other
shippers. Hardly any brewing companies owned their own cars -
Anheuser-Busch and its St. Louis Refrigerator Car Co. were a notable
exception, and some traffic must have been found for SLRX cars during
prohibition because almost 700 of them were operated by the
Manufacturers Railway Co. (also wholly owned by A-B) in the mid-1920s.


Richard Hendrickson


Re: Pabst at the lettuce farm, 1931

gnryfan
 

Further research:"Throughout the 1920s and 1930s Charles invested in
real estate, industry, farms, ranches, gold mines, and oil wells. He
built industrial warehouses for firms such as Frigidaire and Buick
Motor Co. After purchasing 2,000 acres of land in Monroe, Frye
established an industrial scale lettuce farm with processing
facilities, six narrow-gauge railroad tracks, and a plant that
produced 200 tons of ice per day. The lettuce farm failed financially
because of the Depression, but Frye was able to retain the meat
packing plant, business investments and the art collection. The Frye
business expanded to include cattle, sheep, hog, and chicken ranching
in several western states, later expanding to include a large scale
meat processing plant with retail sales outlets stretching from
California to Alaska. During these prosperous times Charles and Emma
were able to travel to Europe and collect art."(from
http://calendar.thenewstribune.com/seattle-wa/venues/show/9367-frye-art-museum


Re: Pabst at the lettuce farm, 1931

gnryfan
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Sabol" <jimsabol@...> wrote:

The icing and cold storage facility in Monroe Washington was in
"downtown" Monroe and not at the farm.

There seems to be a lot of speculation here that is not proven out by
the photographic evidence you can find if you go to the Univ. of
Washington digital collection and search for "Pickett Frye" (name of
photographer, name of farm. And also go to the Monroe Historical
Society website. You'll find: Pickett #4803 clearly shows and states
the ice facility is AT the farm, and you can see it is not in
town...it's fields all around. Other photos of thearea confirm this
too. Other photos also show the icing platform is on top of the
loading platform, and loading lettuce or other produce was done at the
same platform and location as the icing, one deck above the other. So
if a beer reefer was at the icing platform, it was ALSO at the loading
platform. (was it being loaded? Don't know, not speculating. But
possibly so.) About that reefer: The Monroe Hist. society site claims
that Frye was only a partial owner of the farm...the other owner was
Western Fruit Express. OK, Now speculate: Could Frye have purchased
fields, etc., and WFEX bought in for the platform, Cold Storage and
Ice facility? If so, there may be a plausible explanation for the
beer reefer NOT having lettuce, but being iced at a WFEX company
platform, which happened to be out at the farm.

Check out the photo collections yourself, and make your own judgement.

Joe


Re: Eastern States Farmers Exchange reefers

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

Hi Fred,

The Eastern States Farmers Exchange operated almost exclusively in
Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New York and
Pennsylvania. I am not aware of them having had any operations in Rhode
Island or New Jersey but my members handbook (my family were members
for some years) is packed away at the moment. The cars would have
ranged at least as far west as Buffalo, N.Y. and central Pennsylvania.
Anything is possible but I doubt they would have strayed far out of the
region very often, though I seem to recall something in Delaware as
well.

Hope this helps as this was definitely a steam and early transition era
outfit.

Don Valentine


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Fred Mullins" <fmullins@...> wrote:

Can anybody tell me when the years these cars were used in rail
service
and was it a local area or did they roam all across the country?
thanks
Fred Mullins


Re: Pabst Car

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, timboconnor@... wrote:


I think some beers definitely had to be refrigerated because they were
not pasteurized. A reefer packed tight with cold beer (40 degrees) could
still gain several degrees a day in hot weather. Until Coors built a
bottling plant in Virginia, they would not ship east of Chicago because
transit times would result in the beer getting too warm. (Even modern
insulated beer boxcars gain about 2-3 degrees a day.) How hot can a
bottle of pasteurized beer get before it's no good?

Tim O'Connor
It depends on the brand… If it's Carlings or Busch Bavarian, likely
200 deg F. couldn't hurt it :-)

Seriously, it seems most beer was shipped in insulated boxcars or
bunkerless refrigerator cars during the steam era, maybe because the
beer was being Pasteurized. Anheuser-Busch owned a car line, St. Louis
Refrigerator Co., SLRX, that owned 600 cars in 1929; 965 cars in 1958;
ALL RB's (Refrigerator, Bunkerless). Meister Brau in Chicago always
shipped in RBL's during the sixties; I knew a guy that was briefly
employed as a loader. I think the insulation was needed to keep the
bottles / kegs from bursting from pressure caused from heating what is
basically a carbonated beverage, not because of spoilage.


Dennis


Re: Pabst Car

Doug Rhodes
 

Not quite right about the history of prohibition in Canada.

Prohibition in Canada was a provincial matter. There was some overlap with the period of prohibition in the US, with some Canadian jurisdictions going dry earlier than the US, but after World War 1 provinces began repealing their prohibition laws, Quebec in 1919, BC in 1920 and others throughout the 1920s. All were repealed by 1930 except Prince Edward Island, which was dry until after World War 2. So alcohol was legal for production and sale in many communities and provinces in Canada long before the US repealed prohibition, starting in 1933.

Even during the short period when Canada had widespread prohibition in parallel with the US, it was considerably more lenient in Canada with many more exceptions - for example, old timers talk about going to the drug store to get their "prescriptions" filled, with long line-ups there at Christmas.

Production in Canada did indeed boom during the period, and though not entirely for export, Canada's market was small compared to the US, as it still is. No question that some notable Canadian fortunes were built on alcohol production during US prohibition, clearly not all based on sales of product within Canada! Some Canadian suppliers maintained significant market share in the US after the repeal, based on customer preferences and name recognition established during the "rum running" era.

I have no data to support the hypothesis, but it seems logical that some of the raw materials may have travelled north to Canada in reefers for incorporation into products intended for export back to the US.

Doug Rhodes

----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Pierce
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 3:01 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Pabst Car


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "George A. Walls" <atsf1226@...> wrote:
>
> ....A lot of Beer makers just made something else. As I said earlier
> Pabst made Cheese. There was still a demand for Grapes, Barley, Hops
> and Corn in Canada so maybe some of the reefers were used for the
> transportation of the raw materials to that area.
>
Canada had its own alcoholic prohibition at the time, but Canadian
companies were permitted to produce alcoholic beverages for export
only, so production there boomed during US's prohibition period. I
suspect those Canadian companies came upon harder times with passage of
the 21st amendment.

Mark


Re: Pabst Car

Tim O'Connor
 

I think some beers definitely had to be refrigerated because they were
not pasteurized. A reefer packed tight with cold beer (40 degrees) could
still gain several degrees a day in hot weather. Until Coors built a
bottling plant in Virginia, they would not ship east of Chicago because
transit times would result in the beer getting too warm. (Even modern
insulated beer boxcars gain about 2-3 degrees a day.) How hot can a
bottle of pasteurized beer get before it's no good?

Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@signaturepress.com>
Justin Kahn wrote:
There is one point (at least I think so) that no one has addressed:
presumably the car did not contain beer
because of the date and Prohibition, but another argument might be
that I seem to recall that most beer
shipments were not iced. Shipped in insulated cars, but not actively
refrigerated.
Justin, I'm not getting your point: you're saying that beer
wasn't refrigerated, but this car, not carrying beer, was getting iced?
or not getting iced, just part of the string at the ice deck?

Tony Thompson


Re: Pabst Car

Mark Pierce <marcoperforar@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "George A. Walls" <atsf1226@...> wrote:

....A lot of Beer makers just made something else. As I said earlier
Pabst made Cheese. There was still a demand for Grapes, Barley, Hops
and Corn in Canada so maybe some of the reefers were used for the
transportation of the raw materials to that area.
Canada had its own alcoholic prohibition at the time, but Canadian
companies were permitted to produce alcoholic beverages for export
only, so production there boomed during US's prohibition period. I
suspect those Canadian companies came upon harder times with passage of
the 21st amendment.

Mark


Re: Loading tank cars with tung oil, 1929

Mark Pierce <marcoperforar@...>
 

Under favorable conditions, an acre of Tung trees produces two tons
of nuts from which 200 gallons of oil is derived.

Tung tree plantations were established in the Gulf Coast states in
the 1930s. A hurricane in 1969 destroyed the trees, so tung oil is
being imported again.

Mark

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Krueger" <kruegerp@...> wrote:

With the recent discussion of tank car loading, I thought I'd share
these two photos I stumbled upon this morning.

You can zoom in on the image by clicking it. The cars in the first
image are STCX.

Tiny url:
http://tiny.cc/Cx1vN

Full link:
http://digitum.washingtonhistory.org/cdm4/item_viewer.php?
CISOROOT=/curtis&CISOPTR=399&CISOBOX=1&REC=10

Tiny url:
http://tiny.cc/TJZzH

Full link:
http://digitum.washingtonhistory.org/cdm4/item_viewer.php?
CISOROOT=/curtis&CISOPTR=400&CISOBOX=1&REC=11

Paul
Seattle, WA


Re: Pabst Car

water.kresse@...
 

Could these be transported in ventilated boxes: Grapes, Barley, Hops
and Corn?

Al Kresse

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "George A. Walls" <atsf1226@yahoo.com>
Michael,
The Volstead Act or 18th Amendment allowed no Beer, Wine or liquor
above 0.5 percent Alcohol until after the 21st Amendent was passed in
1933. Each household was allowed to make a certain quantity of Beer
or Wine. Beer after 1933 was 3.2. And still is in some states. The
21st Amendment allowed states to set their own laws on liquor and a
number of them were dry. I think Kansas still is.

A lot of Beer makers just made something else. As I said earlier
Pabst made Cheese. There was still a demand for Grapes, Barley, Hops
and Corn in Canada so maybe some of the reefers were used for the
transportation of the raw materials to that area.

George A Walls

During the Prohibtion in the United States on the Federal
level from January 29, 1920 to March 22, 1933 ( this allowed 3.2 beer
and some wines) then December 5, 1933 when the The Eighteenth
Amendment was repealed with ratification of the Twenty-first Amendent
became law. How were the beer reefers used? If leased, were turned
back into the leaseing company and used how ever needed? If company
owned, were the sold off, placed into a lease to someone else? 13
years is a long time for cars sit around and do nothing.

MIchael
--- On Tue, 9/30/08, Justin Kahn <harumd@...> wrote:

From: Justin Kahn <harumd@...>
Subject: [STMFC] RE: Pabst Car
To: stmfc@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 11:45 AM

There is one point (at least I think so) that no one has addressed:
presumably
the car did not contain beer
because of the date and Prohibition, but another argument might be
that I seem
to recall that most beer
shipments were not iced. Shipped in insulated cars, but not
actively
refrigerated.

Jace Kahn, General Manager
Ceres and Canisteo RR Co.


Being a natural contrarian -- perhaps the Pabst reefer was there
simply
because it needed ice!
__________________________________________________________
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Fw: Eastern States Farmers Exchange reefers

seaboard_1966
 

Fred

Check out this link...some answers are there.

http://www.trainresource.com/Eastern_States_Farmers_Exch.html

Denis Blake
Marysville, OH

---- Original Message -----


From: "Fred Mullins" <fmullins@cox.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 5:20 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Eastern States Farmers Exchange reefers


Can anybody tell me when the years these cars were used in rail service
and was it a local area or did they roam all across the country?
thanks
Fred Mullins


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Re: Pabst Car

ATSF1226
 

Michael,
The Volstead Act or 18th Amendment allowed no Beer, Wine or liquor
above 0.5 percent Alcohol until after the 21st Amendent was passed in
1933. Each household was allowed to make a certain quantity of Beer
or Wine. Beer after 1933 was 3.2. And still is in some states. The
21st Amendment allowed states to set their own laws on liquor and a
number of them were dry. I think Kansas still is.

A lot of Beer makers just made something else. As I said earlier
Pabst made Cheese. There was still a demand for Grapes, Barley, Hops
and Corn in Canada so maybe some of the reefers were used for the
transportation of the raw materials to that area.

George A Walls


During the Prohibtion in the United States on the Federal
level from January 29, 1920 to March 22, 1933 ( this allowed 3.2 beer
and some wines) then December 5, 1933 when the The Eighteenth
Amendment was repealed with ratification of the Twenty-first Amendent
became law. How  were the beer reefers used? If leased, were turned
back into the leaseing company and used how ever needed?  If company
owned, were the sold off, placed into a lease to someone else? 13
years is a long time for cars sit around and do nothing.
 
MIchael
--- On Tue, 9/30/08, Justin Kahn <harumd@...> wrote:

From: Justin Kahn <harumd@...>
Subject: [STMFC] RE: Pabst Car
To: stmfc@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 11:45 AM

There is one point (at least I think so) that no one has addressed:
presumably
the car did not contain beer
because of the date and Prohibition, but another argument might be
that I seem
to recall that most beer
shipments were not iced. Shipped in insulated cars, but not
actively
refrigerated.

Jace Kahn, General Manager
Ceres and Canisteo RR Co.


Being a natural contrarian -- perhaps the Pabst reefer was there
simply
because it needed ice!
_________________________________________________________________
Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn "10 hidden secrets" from
Jamie.
http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-
Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Eastern States Farmers Exchange reefers

Fred Mullins
 

Can anybody tell me when the years these cars were used in rail service
and was it a local area or did they roam all across the country?
thanks
Fred Mullins


Re: Atlas ARA 1932 Box Cars plus other RTR cars for sale

armprem
 

Sorry ,I goofed.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Armand Premo" <armprem@surfglobal.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 4:53 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Atlas ARA 1932 Box Cars plus other RTR cars for sale


Andy,Which cars do you have?Armand Premo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Carlson" <midcentury@sbcglobal.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 12:19 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Atlas ARA 1932 Box Cars plus other RTR cars for sale



I have prepared a list of RTR boxcars that I am offering for discounted
sale, many are 50% off MSRP.

New stock includes the Atlas '32 ARA boxcars, including undecs.

If interested, contact me off-list (Please) at <midcentury@sbcglobal.net>
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


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6:51 PM


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Re: Atlas ARA 1932 Box Cars plus other RTR cars for sale

armprem
 

Andy,Which cars do you have?Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Carlson" <midcentury@sbcglobal.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 12:19 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Atlas ARA 1932 Box Cars plus other RTR cars for sale



I have prepared a list of RTR boxcars that I am offering for discounted sale, many are 50% off MSRP.

New stock includes the Atlas '32 ARA boxcars, including undecs.

If interested, contact me off-list (Please) at <midcentury@sbcglobal.net>
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


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Yahoo! Groups Links



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