Date   

Re: New HO scale 70-ton flatcar

Tim O'Connor
 

Owners include AT&SF/B&O/CNJ/DT&I/ERIE/IHB/NH/NYC/PM/WABASH.
And maybe GTW (not sure)

I found a terrific scan online of a CNJ flat loaded w/ autoframes.

My concern is -- will the car have sufficient weight? IRC makes
a 60ft modern equipment flat that is underweight. P2K solved the
problem by making a diecast underframe.

Tim O'Connor

The AAR 50 ton and 70 ton flat cars were entirely different designs.
The 50 ton car was based on the Union Pacific F-50-11 class of 1941;
the 70 ton car was derived from a series of cars with notably low
decks built in the early 1940s for the Erie. As noted by Ed Hawkins,
the sides were different and, I will add, the 70 ton cars had 14
stake pockets while the 50 ton cars had 15 per side. The four road
names of IM's initial introduction are all authentic, and other RRs
that rostered AAR 70 ton flats included the Santa Fe, New York
Central, and Wabash, models of which will doubtless be coming from IM
in later production runs. About the trucks I can't say anything
until I see them.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: New HO scale 70-ton flatcar

John Hile <john66h@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "mcindoefalls" <mcindoefalls@...> wrote:

AAR 70-ton flatcar from Intermountain:

http://www.ircmodelersclub.com/images/flyer184w.jpg

Walt Lankenau








ProtoWest has a resin kit for this car and some prototype info and
photos on their web site...

http://www.protowestmodels.com/ProtoWest_HO_Kits.htm


John Hile
Blacksburg, VA


Re: New HO scale 70-ton flatcar

David North <davenorth@...>
 

The Santa Fe number is 91500 which is listed in the live list as an FT-V
with 200 built by PSCM in 1944 and it appears all cars had bulkheads added
in 1955, for pulpwood service.

So even though the cars lasted until 1985 with 112 still on the roster in
1981, the apparent offering from IM restricts its suitability to 1944-55.

So great for the steam/diesel transition modeler.

Richard or others, did Santa Fe have other classes of this car, please?



Oh, and the B&O number is 8400



Cheers

Dave


Re: True Scale HO sill steps

Tim O'Connor
 

Walter M. Clark wrote

My current adventure<g> is modeling sill steps for Harriman
SP box cars.
Many of Al's kits use similar methods using flat brass 'wire'.
Personally I'd like to see someone do an etched sheet of strip
brass in several scale widths, each piece 3-4" long. It would
be generic material, thinner than the Detail Associates flat
strips, easier to bend and twist, for many applications. Easy
to cut too, because the cuts are not lengthwise -- as you said
it's really hard to cut shim material so narrowly.

Tim O'Connor


Re: New HO scale 70-ton flatcar

Peter Ness
 

Some New Haven 17300-series 70-ton flats (along with welded side
17200-series cars) were converted to TOFC service in the late '30's.
These cars lasted in this role until ca. 1953 when replaced with 40'
flats. The original converted 17300 (and 17200) series cars were
capable of carrying two of the shorter trailers of the time.

To my knowledge all 17300-series cars converted for TOFC service had
the drop staff hand brake relocated from the end of the car to the
side and replaced with a Peacock hand brake. Photos show that after
the cars were returned from TOFC to general service, the side-mounted
hand brake was retained.

Later than 1953 (I don't have my references handy...) some 17300-
series flats were modified with bulkhead ends into 19000-series
bulkhead flats for brick and gypsum service. There were two groups
in the 19000-series, with two different styles of bulkhead ends.

Bottom line, the IM cars are most likely not foobies for New Haven -
except depending on what road numbers are applied and what year the
modeler places them in service, there is a chance the car with road
number may not have been a straight 70t AAR flat.

Hope this helps,
Peter

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...> wrote:


On Oct 13, 2008, at 6:00 PM, Gene Green wrote:

Foobies???

How will the new Intermountain 70-ton flat car differ from the
P2K
53'-6" flat car we already have?
Gene,
In addition to the obvious differences in trucks, the following is
a
brief description of the differences. The fish-belly sides of the
50-ton AAR cars have a steeper slope than the 70-ton AAR cars, a
different underframe arrangement, and the decks are significantly
different. The 50-ton deck is wood from end to end. The 70-ton deck
has
steel plate flush with the top of the deck crosswise at the bolster
plus T-sections of steel between the bolsters and end sills. Thus,
the
wood portion of the 70-ton deck is split into 5 sections, two small
sections at each end and one larger section between the bolsters.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins



Re: Archer decal rivet application

Peter Ness
 

I've submitted some photos for Moderator review to the Archer Decals
Photo folder on STMFC. I recently completed a project of New Haven
33000-33499 Post War AAR 40' 10'IH Steel Box Cars. To do this I used
IM 1937 AAR carbody and roof with IM 3/4 late IDE's (welded seams)
that I backdated to the early riveted style with the Archer decals.

I'm also building one car with Branchline 3/4 Early IDE's cut down
from 10'6"IH to 10'IH in case someone doesn't want to try their hand
with these decals. I found them very easy to use and I'm very
pleased with the results. I'll be presenting a clinic on modeling
these cars at the NHRHTA Reunion in November.

Hopefully posting of the photos will be approved by the Moderator.

Regards,
Peter

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Madden" <tgmadden@...> wrote:

It's not freight cars per se, but the application works for them.
See:

http://home.att.net/~pullmanproject/Archer1.jpg

and

http://home.att.net/~pullmanproject/Archer2.jpg

These are Archer's smallest rivets and closest centers. I cut
strips
of them from the decal sheet and applied them in the standard way.
They're on Microscale decal paper, so I used Micro Sol to set them.
After they had dried overnight I sealed them with a spray coat of
clear matte lacquer. The rivets were a bit fragile before the seal
coat, with a tendency to chip off if you weren't careful with your
fingernails. Not surprising, considering they are real 3D objects.
Very easy to repair, just cut another one from the sheet. Being
decals, you have a lot of freedom (and time) to get them in
position.
Once sealed, they are very rugged and withstood the mold making
process with no problems.

To be indelicate, under very high magnification they look like
little
piles of dog poop, but once on the model and sealed I think they
look
pretty good.

Tom Madden


Re: HO USRA Gondola Decals Source?

Douglas Harding <dharding@...>
 

I sent Edward a photo off list of a M&StL USRA Gon. They were painted black. Greg Komar offers a dry transfer for an M&StL GS gon
that might be usable. HO-230; 30001-30499 GS white black Sized to fit Detail Associates gondola

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: 4/4/4/4 Ytown boxcar doors

leakinmywaders
 

Andy: Thanks for this suggestion. I'll have to weigh whether to go to
this trouble with the P2K doors, or whether to try a scratch build
with styrene. Archer rivets now make door projects like this a whole
lote more feasible.

There don't seem to be a lot of Erie modelers on this list, but if we
could get enough Erie and NP people interested, I reckon we might find
a way to cast a door set in resin. Except for the doors, this car
looks to be a not-too-difficult build from an IMRC 10ft6in IH boxcar
with 5/5 ends and rectangular panel roof, with the SPRR (sparse
parallel rivet rows) added to the side panels with Archer material,
and side sills rebuilt, something us NP guys are well used to. Oh and
National B-1 50 ton trucks from Proto2000. I can't vouch for the
underframe fidelity though, perhaps someone else can speak to that.

Or maybe Ted Culotta's already working on this as one of his Auto
boxcar projects....*he suggests hopefully.*

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT




--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:

Chris,

With some work, LifeLike P2K double door boxcars had early 4/4/4/4
YD with similar rib spacing at the riveted joint section. Two
problems, both which are correctable with some modeling work: the
doors are 7' wide and the doors are molded as part of the car body.

One bonus is that you get the correct door hardware for both the
right and left doors.

Narrowing the doors might be easier if you were to first remove the
Camel door hardware, which will allow you to remove 6 scale inches
from each side. This will avoid having a witness line vertically
straight down the middle and avoid having to address removing the tack
board and the pull hardware. These types of modifications cry out for
making just one pair of doors and producing a mold to cast as many as
you need. Ace hardware still sells two ton epoxy in a mixing syringe
package which is an ideal casting material for small runs. You will,
of course, need to get a good quality RTV rubber for the molds.

Thanks for posting the picture.

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


--- On Sun, 10/12/08, leakinmywaders <leakinmywaders@...> wrote:

From: leakinmywaders <leakinmywaders@...>
Subject: [STMFC] 4/4/4/4 Ytown boxcar doors
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, October 12, 2008, 10:49 PM
Does anyone on the list know of a source in HO scale of
early
Youngstown corrugated 4/4/4/4 sliding doors, 6ft wide
(actually the
prototype was likely nearer 6ft5in wide, to fit a 12ft6in
door
opening), with Camel-type roller fixtures on the bottom?
These were
used on the Erie's 95000-95099 series 10ft 4in inside
height
automobile boxcars built in 1942, see photo:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie95000bdb.jpg

...and remained after the NP acquired these cars on lease
near the end
of their lives.

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT


New HO scale 70-ton flatcar

Edwin C Kirstatter <Q1xaMacArthur1@...>
 

If I could just read the lettering on that and count the stake pockets.
When I expanded the B&O car its number seemed to be 8400.
Everything else was too fuzzy to read.

The B&O had some 70-ton 53'-6" cars built in 1953-54 Nos. 8400-8499.
Underframes by Greenville, body by B&O DuBois shops. Floor 10'-6"

And some more were acquired in 1955 Nos. 8900-8979. But these floors
were only 10'-4" wide.

All of these rode on B&O 51-Xa trucks. These cars weight was 60,400.
They had 14 stake pockets per side. The B&O Class was P-31.

Being built by Greenville I guess they were all riveted cars. Photos in
my
collection shows them to be riveted cars.

Many of this class were converted by the B&O in 1953, 54 & 56 at Mt Clare
shops
to class P-31a for "TOFCEE" trailers, P-31b for "TOTE" bins in '59, P-31c
for
Plasterboard in 1960, P-31d with Cushion Cradles in '60 and P-31e & f in
later years
for other special service.

Question: If the B&O built the bodies for these cars what did they do?
Just put the floors on?
Or did they add the brake systems, grabirons and trucks
to bare underframes that
were shipped to them on other flatcars or in gondola
cars? Greenville isn't too far
from DuBois.
Ed.K. B&O Modeler.
____________________________________________________________
Click here for free info on Graduate Degrees.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nNPPKbMaHK5bHAtZ2isPgDuAEfbBR7rnaiHuBBY4APhRJqx/


Re: New HO scale 70-ton flatcar

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
The AAR 50 ton and 70 ton flat cars were entirely different designs.
As Ed Hawkins also observed . . . I should have restricted myself to saying that the tonnage rating alone isn't particularly informative. And let's hope for the best on trucks. Intermountain is working on the 1958-cubic foot covered hoppers, also 70-ton cars, so there is a CHANCE of a new truck.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: HO USRA Gondola Decals Source?

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Oct 13, 2008, at 12:18 PM, spsalso wrote:

I've got a Precision USRA gon that came painted for NYC. It's my
impression that these NYC cars weren't around in unmodified form in
the era I'm interested in (1945 on).




Correct. The last of the NYC's original USRA composite gondolas were
rebuilt as all steel cars in the early 1930s.

I would like to repaint it for
M&StL or Frisco because the above quote. I, so far, haven't found
photos for lettering. Can anyone direct me? I would think that both
would have been painted one of the many variants of "freight car
red". Does anyone disagree?






Ed, I have in-service photos of both Frisco and M&StL cars which I
can scan for you and send off-list.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: New HO scale 70-ton flatcar

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Oct 13, 2008, at 6:57 PM, Andy Carlson wrote:

But Richard, you have seen them, they were under the Intermountain
Railway Co. HO AC&F 2 compartment covered hoppers on display at the
Santa Fe meet.



Ah! THOSE trucks! Well, IIRC, they looked pretty good, though that
was several months ago.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: New HO scale 70-ton flatcar

mcindoefalls
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
wrote:

As noted by Ed Hawkins,
the sides were different and, I will add, the 70 ton cars had 14
stake pockets while the 50 ton cars had 15 per side. The four road
names of IM's initial introduction are all authentic, and other RRs
that rostered AAR 70 ton flats included the Santa Fe, New York
Central, and Wabash, models of which will doubtless be coming from IM
in later production runs.
Thank you, Richard, I thought there was a difference in the stake
pockets but couldn't remember what it was. Santa Fe is among the
initial road names offered by IM; the others are New Haven 17352, Erie
8000, and B&O. (I can't read the Santa Fe and B&O road numbers on the
artwork.)

Walt Lankenau


Re: New HO scale 70-ton flatcar

Andy Carlson
 

But Richard, you have seen them, they were under the Intermountain Railway Co. HO AC&F 2 compartment covered hoppers on display at the Santa Fe meet.
-Andy Carlson,
Ojai CA

--- On Mon, 10/13/08, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@opendoor.com> wrote:

About the trucks I can't say
anything
until I see them.


Re: New HO scale 70-ton flatcar

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Oct 13, 2008, at 4:40 PM, Anthony Thompson wrote:

Gene Green wrote:
How will the new Intermountain 70-ton flat car differ from the P2K
53'-6" flat car we already have?
Rich Orr replied:
P2K is a 50 ton car the IM is a 70 ton car.
True, but not helpful; and the underframe being a hair beefier is
pretty hard to see on a flat car. Should Intermountain actually tool a
70-ton truck, that would be a nice addition--but I'm not holding my
breath.












The AAR 50 ton and 70 ton flat cars were entirely different designs.
The 50 ton car was based on the Union Pacific F-50-11 class of 1941;
the 70 ton car was derived from a series of cars with notably low
decks built in the early 1940s for the Erie. As noted by Ed Hawkins,
the sides were different and, I will add, the 70 ton cars had 14
stake pockets while the 50 ton cars had 15 per side. The four road
names of IM's initial introduction are all authentic, and other RRs
that rostered AAR 70 ton flats included the Santa Fe, New York
Central, and Wabash, models of which will doubtless be coming from IM
in later production runs. About the trucks I can't say anything
until I see them.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: New HO scale 70-ton flatcar

Jason Sanford <parkcitybranch@...>
 

I will be interested to see how the car is built, I am assuming a plastic frame, based on their 60' offering, which should make the car feather light.  When I was a modern day modeler (I know.  Shame on me!) I had some of their 60' flat cars and they were very light!  But we all know what assuming does so I will stop there until we hear more.
 
Jason Sanford


Re: New HO scale 70-ton flatcar

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Gene Green wrote:
How will the new Intermountain 70-ton flat car differ from the P2K 53'-6" flat car we already have?

Rich Orr replied:
P2K is a 50 ton car the IM is a 70 ton car.
True, but not helpful; and the underframe being a hair beefier is pretty hard to see on a flat car. Should Intermountain actually tool a 70-ton truck, that would be a nice addition--but I'm not holding my breath.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: New HO scale 70-ton flatcar

Ed Hawkins
 

On Oct 13, 2008, at 6:00 PM, Gene Green wrote:

Foobies???

How will the new Intermountain 70-ton flat car differ from the P2K
53'-6" flat car we already have?
Gene,
In addition to the obvious differences in trucks, the following is a
brief description of the differences. The fish-belly sides of the
50-ton AAR cars have a steeper slope than the 70-ton AAR cars, a
different underframe arrangement, and the decks are significantly
different. The 50-ton deck is wood from end to end. The 70-ton deck has
steel plate flush with the top of the deck crosswise at the bolster
plus T-sections of steel between the bolsters and end sills. Thus, the
wood portion of the 70-ton deck is split into 5 sections, two small
sections at each end and one larger section between the bolsters.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: New HO scale 70-ton flatcar

Gene Green <bierglaeser@...>
 

Foobies???

How will the new Intermountain 70-ton flat car differ from the P2K
53'-6" flat car we already have?

Gene Green
OitwTtoEP

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Walt Lankenau wrote:
AAR 70-ton flatcar from Intermountain:
http://www.ircmodelersclub.com/images/flyer184w.jpg
Now begins the dance to find out how many are foobies.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: USRA Standard 100-ton Gondola Car Design

rwitt_2000
 

Al Kresse asked:

Why didn't "anyone" pursue that particular design? i.e. N&W, C&O and
then Virginian in their prototype or production 90-120-ton car
designs?

Al,

From what research I have completed on B&O coal cars, it appears
different railroads had different needs for the type of coal cars they
placed on their rosters. The B&O definitely settled upon the 50-ton
twin hopper as their "standard" coal cars. I don't have the memos to
document this, but this is implied from types of cars listed in their
rosters.

For what ever reasons the B&O had no interest in large capacity
gondolas. In fact, they had no interest in the USRA 50-ton twin hopper.
Although they received several thousands during the USRA era, they
immediately began building more of their class N-12 hopper at the
termination of USRA control even though the original design dated from
~1912. Large capacity cars for the B&O were the 70-ton ARA quad hoppers
received in the late 1920's.

Regards,

Bob Witt

116381 - 116400 of 192670