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Re: New HO scale 70-ton flatcar
The Sunshine kit builds into a fine model, but it's not one of the
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easiest kits to assemble. But if the IRC car lacks weight, then what the heck, I'll pass and keep the Sunshine version.
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From: Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> Probably not, but I will note that IM stuff is usually available as
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EJ&E Flatcars or Gondolas
Andy Laurent
I am looking for a few EJ&E flatcars and gons to carry inbound steel
loads into a shipyard on my layout set in 1952. Are there any models out there that are dead-on or close-to cars that were in service at the time? I have the Proto 50-ton AAR flat...but was wondering about the green and orange paint scheme. When did that scheme enter service, and what was the prior scheme (black/white, or tuscan/white)? I haven't found decals either...any help is appreciated. Thanks, Andy L.
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Re: New HO scale 70-ton flatcar
On Oct 14, 2008, at 10:13 PM, mcindoefalls wrote:
--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>Probably not, but I will note that IM stuff is usually available as undec kits, and all of the decals for the 70 ton flat cars are available through Sunshine, if you want to go that route. With most of us having shelves of unbuilt resin, and the correct paint and lettering apparently coming out in the RTR, I doubt that there will be very many who go that route for this car. Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D., Professor of Pathobiology Scott-Ritchey Research Center Auburn University, AL 36849-5525 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2 ************************************************************************ ********* "Evolution is a fact, get used to it"
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Re: New HO scale 70-ton flatcar
Marty McGuirk
Possible, but I'd say not likely. Intermountain, Red Caboose, and Branchline could easily shift to kit production for most of their cars, as the tooling is still in the US. Biggest issue would be decorating, as the Chinese prices for multi- color masking were always a lot better than doing the same paint jobs here. But, with investment in some better equipment IRC and RC could duplicate any of the multi-color paint jobs and steel plate-like printing the Chinese are doing. (Branchline likley has the best model railroad printing setup in the country, with the possible exception of Micro-Trains!) Atlas, Walthers, Athearn, etc . . . would have a different problem since it would likely cost as much to ship pre-packaged kits back here from the facilities overseas than it would to ship finished products. I suppose they could ship parts in bulk and then package them here, but many of the arrangements with facilities overseas call for minimum molding and decorating quantities per set up, so I don't think there would be any appreciable cost savings. Marty
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New Bulkhead HO scale 70-ton flatcar
Andy Carlson
Intermountain Railway Co.'s dealer newsletter stated that following the may/June delivery of the 70t flat will be bulkhead flat car versions. Perhaps they will model the Santa Fe version????
-Andy Carlson Ojai CA
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Re: New HO scale 70-ton flatcar
Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
Richard,
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What you say about prices and China is true. But I've heard that some companies (not model railroad manufacturers, yet) are deserting China for Vietnam and other places, where the workers think they are well paid for 1/6 of the sweatshop wages Chinese workers get. Martha Stewart's furniture is already made in Vietnam. Remember that his happened in the 1970s with brass locomotives when production shifted from Japan to Korea. I would not be surprised to see lots of toy and model manufacturing move out of China in the next ten or so years. I think that we can still expect prices to climb thanks to higher shipping and material costs even if production moves elsewhere. Kind regards, Garth G. Groff Richard Hendrickson wrote:
C'mon, guys, get real about prices. I have it on good authority from a manufacturer who prefers not to be quoted that the cost of everything in China - molding, assembly, packaging - is going up rapidly, and gets higher every week. It won't be long before assembled HO scale freight car models will be selling in the $40-$50 range. Remember a few years ago when a lot of modelers declared that they'd never give $30 for a freight car model, even if it was from Kadee. And there was such sales resistance that Kadee went broke, right? And we all went back to shake the blue box Irv Athearn kits, right? Ask any of us who've traveled overseas lately what the dollar is now worth relative to other currencies (i'd add that we all know who to blame for that, but our moderator proscribes political comments). And then consider how much better the products we're getting now are in accuracy and quality. $30 for an assembled flat car? You bet, and it will be more next year. Get 'em while you can.
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Re: Mineral Service on your Roads
Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Rob;
You are absolutely correct, and I should have stated up-front the use of that term in the way that the railroads used it in covering everything that came out of the earth, as opposed to rocks, minerals, compounds... Elden Gatwood ________________________________ From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Robert Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 7:16 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Re: Mineral Service on your Roads Tech speaking, neither sand nor gravel are minerals. They, and coal, are rocks. Rocks are composed of minerals. A mineral is a geologically-formed solid consists one specific chemical composition and can be an element like sulpher or a compound like feldspar or quartz. Coal is usually classed as a sedimentary rock (on the soft peat end of the scale) to a metamorphic rock (on the hard anthracite end of the scale). Of course in the RR world, we usually refer to sand, gravel, and coal transportation as "mineral" service. Rob Simpson --- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Dave Nelson" <Lake_Muskoka@...> wrote: coal, was, IIRC, the second most common commodity shipped in open top cars... a fact that likely makes it the #1 mineral, as coal isn't a mineral (it's combustable dirt) and most sand and gravel is. And even better, virtual every railroad moved sand and gravel so such loads can be used by almost everybody who has a layout. number of posts citing tonnages.
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Re: New HO scale 70-ton flatcar
Gatwood, Elden J SAD
I also had a great time building my ProtoWest B&O P-31. The kit builds up
into a very nice model, and just has that nice finish that you can only get from something that you made sure had all the right details. Elden Gatwood ________________________________ From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Jim & Lisa Hayes Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 9:17 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: New HO scale 70-ton flatcar AT $30 apiece for the IMRC version, it's cheaper to go with the Protowest www.protowestmodels.com resin kit at 2 for $44.95. I just received mine a couple of weeks ago and it's a nice kit. Jim Hayes Portland Oregon
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Re: New HO scale 70-ton flatcar
Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Richard is absolutely correct, and you should go get stuff you have been
looking at at today's prices now, as everything you get made or assembled in China is going to continue to rise rapidly. This $30 flat car may seem a bargain in a year. The issuance of billions of $ in credit lines is likely to hit those manufactured goods very hard, as the dollar abroad tanks further. The Chinese have been paying attention very closely to American TV and internet and they know very well what our standard of living is compared to theirs. They want to be a First World country also, so wage demands will continue to rise. There will also be a noticeable time lag between the realization that Chinese exports in the U.S. will have priced up to the point that sales are dropping, and the ability to move manufacturing capability (for these products) abroad to cheaper sources of labor that can be trained to make high quality goods of this type. The Chinese are very good at this. I have a whole raft of economists, both within and without the Fed, I get to talk to every day, so this is not vapor. Next stops? India, Indonesia, Singapore, Pakistan....Mexico? Aren't you guys anxious to own an RTR steam engine made there? QA/QC, anyone? Go buy the beautiful, ready-to-run steam-era freight cars you need soon, folks. And for the future (and better yet), convince more of our U.S. model manufacturers to duplicate the Kadee business/manufacturing model, so we can buy more American-made and assembled products. Elden Gatwood ________________________________ From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of mcindoefalls Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 11:13 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Re: New HO scale 70-ton flatcar --- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote: C'mon, guys, get real about prices. I have it on good authority fromCould there be an upside to this? Such as a possible resurgence of kits vs. rtr, if assembly starts to cost too much over there? Walt Lankenau
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Re: alternate standard twin offset hopper?
Jim
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I'm sure there is more than one person here who'd like to know what difficulty you encountered with this technique. I think Martin got the idea from Jack Spencer who rebuilt some hoppers with embossed mylar overlays and they turned out magnificently. It seems like a good idea... did it not turn out as planned? Tim O'Connor
At 10/14/2008 09:23 PM Tuesday, you wrote:
Five years ago Sunshine did a mini-kit for this car with very thin side
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Re: New HO scale 70-ton flatcar
And those Kadee PS-1 box cars? Still around $30 MSRP, still
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state-of-the-art, and still designed and manufactured in the USA. You guys may not have discovered the new Kadee sliding center sill cushion underframe PS-1's but 1960's modelers sure have! Tim O'Connor
C'mon, guys, get real about prices. I have it on good authority from
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Re: New HO scale 70-ton flatcar
NHJJ4@...
Well Cheaper ?
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I never pay list for a model anyway. But $45.00 Plus Trucks, Couplers,paint & Time ?? Whose Trucks will you run, Which coupler's? Have seen add's for the new car at $21.50 already (pre Order) A lot of people just don't have the time to mess with building a resin kit Or a place to get out the spray gun. or both. I was going to order a couple kits but think I will wait and check out the Plastic flat. kinda like there NE-5s that just came out. List was $49.50. I got a mess of them for me & a friend at $32.50 ea. And the Detail on that is a lot better than the Resin Kit or the Brass that was out there. Seams Everybody wants to try and second guess them Will they do this or that. What about the other ??? What say we give them a chance to show what they have. If it comes out 3/4 as nice as a Resin kit ?? Well there may be a fire sale on resin kits. Have a friend who makes Resin Kits of Eastern road power. Had a DL-109 way before Walthers and a HH-660 Years B4 Atlas. But ?? He had some Problems and as long as the Plastic guys make what he has been doing for years his Resin stuff is going by the wayside. He made a NE-5 years ago. Cant sell them. Not the Detail that is in the Plastic kit. And cant match the price. Jim ( in the PNW)
In a message dated 10/14/2008 6:17:08 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
jimandlisa97225@... writes: AT $30 apiece for the IMRC version, it's cheaper to go with the Protowest www.protowestmodelswww.protowestmodels<WBR>.com resin kit at 2 for $44.95. I couple of weeks ago and it's a nice kit. Jim Hayes Portland Oregon **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002)
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Re: New HO scale 70-ton flatcar
leakinmywaders
Jim: Hi, do you have a plan for weighting ther Protowest flats? The
drawback to the kit is the lack of provision for a weight sandwich between the deck and frame. I guess it'll have to be rectangles of lead sheet fitted into the underframe spaces. BTW I have pair of Protowest NYC kits, and would be interested in swapping one set of NYC decals for one the Erie sets. If anyone's interested, please contact me off list, leakinmywaders[at]yahoo.com. Chris Frissell Polson, MT --- In STMFC@..., "Jim & Lisa Hayes" <jimandlisa97225@...> wrote: Protowest www.protowestmodels.com resin kit at 2 for $44.95. I just receivedmine a couple of weeks ago and it's a nice kit.
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Re: Piedmont & Northern Caboose
Bob McCarthy
Eric,
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How about we go to Greenwood and get some pictures for you. What else do you need. We are in Columbia, SC and not that far from Greenwood. Luckily I am married to a woman who has riddden in steam engine cabs as a child. She likes and understand railroads. Want a show of hands for those married guys who have a wife who will say while having dinner, "You know we need to start a communter line from Newberry, SC to Columbia, SC." I submit I am very lucky, she even has relatives, Uncle Shelby Lowe, who wrote the book on Southern steam, a Grandfather E.E. Lowe who was the Senior Conductor on The Southern Cresent when he retired, with a Great Grandfather Alonzo Lowe who was an engineer for a line that the Southern absorbed. So she will say 'road trip' if you send me the website of the museum. We will get everything we can for you. Are you in HO? Bob McCarthy Modeling in Scale S the Mighty Central of Georgia in the 1950's
--- On Wed, 10/15/08, Eric Hiser <ehiser@...> wrote:
From: Eric Hiser <ehiser@...> Subject: [STMFC] Piedmont & Northern Caboose To: STMFC@... Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 3:43 AM I am looking for a photograph of a Piedmont & Northern Caboose, preferably during the early part of the 20th Century. I have checked the P&N book, but the photo in it is not very helpful. I know that there is a preserved caboose at the Railroad Historical Center in Greenwood, SC, but they do not have a photo of any of the equipment on the webpage. Does anyone have a photo that they could share or a reference to where one may be? It would be appreciated! Eric Hiser Phoenix, AZ ehiser@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Piedmont & Northern Caboose
Eric Hiser <ehiser@...>
I am looking for a photograph of a Piedmont & Northern Caboose, preferably
during the early part of the 20th Century. I have checked the P&N book, but the photo in it is not very helpful. I know that there is a preserved caboose at the Railroad Historical Center in Greenwood, SC, but they do not have a photo of any of the equipment on the webpage. Does anyone have a photo that they could share or a reference to where one may be? It would be appreciated! Eric Hiser Phoenix, AZ ehiser@...
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Prices from China are rocketing - some intelligence
Bob McCarthy
Howdy!
The mighty Central of Georgia is being modeled in the 1950's in scale S. Note not Flyer, etc, etc. I can tell you that prices have been rising in prebuilt cars for the last twelve months, but now the importers are having to pass along, rather than absorb the continuing price increases over the past year. At present on recently landed 50Ton open two bay hoppers in scale S, the current increase is $7.00 per car retail. In January an additional increase of 10% is coming. This is affecting all items sourced in China. Example: Woodland Scenics, etc. My recommendation is, if you want something - buy it now. It will only get worse from here. Jim King, Smokey Mountain Model Works, Inc. believes some production is going to be driven back here when you start adding higher shipping costs to increasing Chinese pro- duction costs. Just what I know as of 2326 Hrs on Tuesday 14.10.08. Bob McCarthy Semper Fi! , 10/15/08, mcindoefalls <mcindoefalls@...> wrote: From: mcindoefalls <mcindoefalls@...> Subject: [STMFC] Re: New HO scale 70-ton flatcar To: STMFC@... Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 3:13 AM --- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@ ...> wrote: C'mon, guys, get real about prices. I have it on good authority fromCould there be an upside to this? Such as a possible resurgence of kits vs. rtr, if assembly starts to cost too much over there? Walt Lankenau
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Re: New HO scale 70-ton flatcar
seaboard_1966
One would hope so, but I don't think so. What is the major driving force in the demise of kits is time. Folks will continue to pay for the cars to come assembled because we continue to lack the time to build them up ourselves.
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I am proud to say that I am in the process of building 7 kits as we speak. Denis Blake Marysville, OH
----- Original Message -----
From: "mcindoefalls" <mcindoefalls@...> To: <STMFC@...> Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 11:13 PM Subject: [STMFC] Re: New HO scale 70-ton flatcar --- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
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Re: New HO scale 70-ton flatcar
mcindoefalls
--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
wrote: C'mon, guys, get real about prices. I have it on good authority fromCould there be an upside to this? Such as a possible resurgence of kits vs. rtr, if assembly starts to cost too much over there? Walt Lankenau
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Re: NYC Rebuilt USRA Gondolas - black colour scheme
mcindoefalls
--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
wrote: And Richard replied: From http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/NYC-MODELS-FREIGHT.htm I quote: "An issue that keeps coming up concerns the color used on NYC freight cars - primarily the open top cars ( hoppers, flat cars and gondolas ), since during different time periods, they were painted either freight car brown or Black. So here is the answer based on Railroad documents, as outlined in various issues of the NYCSHS Headlight: * All NYC hoppers, flat cars and gondolas were painted black prior to February 20, 1941. * From February 20, 1941 to June 6, 1956 they were painted freight car brown. * After June 6, 1956, [cars painted at] shops equipped for handling F-1 black car cement, between April 1 and October 1 were BLACK. [Cars painted at] shops NOT equipped for handling F-1 cement and ALL shops between October 1 and April 1 were freight car brown. This information comes from Specification P-18, Painting Open Top and Flat Cars, first issued December 28, 1921. In practice, it seems that locations with inside paint facilities used black F-1 cement year round and these locations accounted for the preponderance of cars painted." So, in the late steam era, black NYC gons and hoppers would be seen, and fairly recently painted. Walt Lankenau
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Re: Mineral Service on your Roads
Bob McCarthy
Elden,
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It occured to me that my daughter's godfather handle AMAX properties in central GA. I will check with him about the facts. He was a wizard in the Atlanta legal business in the early 1970's, some of his clients were AMAX and Georgia-Pacific. He is also a model railroader, although of SP bent. His father created the Titainium processing plant in Greenville, MS. I will check on what he knows about cars that brought the Kaolin out of the Sandersville area. Also, maybe he can provide information on the cars origin that brought the Titainium to Greenville, MS. Bob McCarthy
--- On Tue, 10/14/08, Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:
From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...> Subject: RE: [STMFC] Mineral Service on your Roads To: STMFC@... Date: Tuesday, October 14, 2008, 6:39 PM Bob; That is interesting. Do you know where CoG sent their cars? Were there any specific concerns that went to CoG specifically for their kaolin? Was it used at all in glass-making, too? Thanks, Elden Gatwood ____________ _________ _________ __ From: STMFC@yahoogroups. com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Bob McCarthy Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 2:18 PM To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [STMFC] Mineral Service on your Roads Howdy! Lately, I have been building and lettering a string of Central of Georgia two and three bay covered hoppers. They were used in Kaolin service that has many uses in both the paper (coating), fine china/ceramics, and medicine (Kaopectate) , etc. Since most of the members of this site are in HO, I can tell you that the Central of Georgia Historical Society, Allen Tuten, President, Google it and you can ask for Micro- scalle decals for these cars. Bob McCarthy --- On Tue, 10/14/08, Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@ usace.army. mil <mailto:elden. j.gatwood% 40usace.army. mil> > wrote: From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@ usace.army. mil <mailto:elden. j.gatwood% 40usace.army. mil> > Subject: RE: [STMFC] Mineral Service on your Roads To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com <mailto:STMFC% 40yahoogroups. com> Date: Tuesday, October 14, 2008, 5:36 PM Folks; I have been doing a bunch more reading on minerals shipped by the railroads, and figure you could have an interest. This may create a more interesting through or set-out operation for you, or even an on-line industrial interchange with your road, if we can figure out what cars were used by what roads, in this service. We have pretty good ideas of what roads shipped coal, and iron ore, but there is a lot that can be done to ID some of the rest, some of which was shipped in open hoppers, others in covered hoppers, and even box cars. Mineral service was a huge amount of the traffic on most roads, even those you wouldn't think of, so I hope we can figure some of this out. Here we go: Aluminum; source area usually overseas (Guinea, Jamaica, Brazil, India); would have entered U.S. ports, most eastern. QUESTIONS: What ports, and shipped by what roads, where destined, how shipped? How much? Ammonium Sulfate; by-product of coking industry; used as soil amendment, white to yellow powder, shipped most often bagged, in box cars. Sources: Coke Industry - Bethlehem Steel, Colorado Fuel & Iron, Crucible Steel, Detroit Steel, Eastern Gas & Fuel, Ford Motor Co., Granite City Steel, Inland Steel, Interlake Iron, International Harvester, Jones & Laughlin, Kaiser Steel, Merritt-Chapman & Scott-Tennessee Products & Chemical, National Steel, Pittsburgh Coke & Chemical, Pittsburgh Steel, Republic Steel, Sharon Steel, U.S. Pipe & Foundry, U.S. Steel (numerous locations), Wheeling Steel, Woodward Iron, Youngstown Sheet & Tube (to start) If you want more details about any of these facilities' production rates or locations, ask! Questions: Where did all this bagged product go first, before it went to local feed & fertilizer distributors? Calcium Carbide: grayish-white mineral used in de-sulphurization of iron. Also used in deoxidization at the ladle, in treatment. QUESTIONS: Sources? Shipped by what roads? Are these the cylindrical tanks we have seen shipped on the NYC and RI in dedicated service rack flats? How much of this was shipped? Chromium: blue-white ore; by 1952, 40% was coming from Turkey, 38% South Africa, some from s. Egypt & Cuba (i.e., 79% import), with small amounts from Montana, California, Oregon, and Alabama. Used in ferrochromium production. Most coming through ports of Philadelphia, Baltimore (others??). Shipped most often in open twin hoppers not filled to volumetric capacity due to weight. Most headed to specialty steel-making facilities (and small industrial chromium coating concerns, but first through where?) QUESTIONS: What other ports, and shipped by what roads? How much? More minerals, later! Any input appreciated. Elden Gatwood [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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