Date   

Re: A Great Decline

Stokes John
 

Would relative age of cars on a specific railroad, say the Erie vs. the Santa Fe, be a great part of this story? It would seem that the Depression did two things, make a large number of old cars obsolete or redundant because of greatly reduced business, which was not uniform across the Nation, and it negated the ability, again not uniformly, to replace the old stock with new. Are these reasonably accurate assumptions?
Thanks,

John Stokes
Bellevue, WA



To: STMFC@yahoogroups.comFrom: ostresh@uwyo.eduDate: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 18:41:26 +0000Subject: [STMFC] A Great Decline




Hi FolksI just finished transcribing portions of the February 1932 ORER into an Excel spreadsheet (U.S. box, auto and ventilator car interior dimensions, capacities, and number of cars, by series) and will soon begin pestering you for information regarding sheathing type (double, single, or steel sheathed). Before I do that, however, I thought I would pass along some summary information that some of you might find interesting, if not unexpected.The total number of box, auto, and ventilator cars in 1932 was 1,025,203; in January 1938 it was 764,055. This is a reduction in the U.S. fleet of over a quarter of a million cars, about 25%, and presumably due to the Great Depression.The attrition was not evenly distributed around the county: The Great Lakes and the Southern ICC regions were hit especially hard, both with a loss of about a third of their fleets. The Pocahontas ICC region lost less than 5% of its cars.Best wishes,Larry OstreshLaramie, Wyoming


A Great Decline

laramielarry <ostresh@...>
 

Hi Folks

I just finished transcribing portions of the February 1932 ORER into
an Excel spreadsheet (U.S. box, auto and ventilator car interior
dimensions, capacities, and number of cars, by series) and will soon
begin pestering you for information regarding sheathing type (double,
single, or steel sheathed). Before I do that, however, I thought
I would pass along some summary information that some of you might
find interesting, if not unexpected.

The total number of box, auto, and ventilator cars in 1932 was
1,025,203; in January 1938 it was 764,055. This is a reduction in
the U.S. fleet of over a quarter of a million cars, about 25%,
and presumably due to the Great Depression.

The attrition was not evenly distributed around the county: The
Great Lakes and the Southern ICC regions were hit especially hard,
both with a loss of about a third of their fleets. The Pocahontas
ICC region lost less than 5% of its cars.

Among the larger railroads – those with over 10,000 box/auto/vent
cars in 1938 – one of the biggest percentage losers was the ERIE,
which went from 23,624 cars in 1932 to 10,533 in 1938. The NYC went
from 89,932 cars to 63,111 and the PRR from 93,414 to 76,123. The
ATSF "only" declined from 39,997 to 35,826; the SP from 27,105 to
24,398; and the UP from 29,851 to 27,624.

Nearly all of the attrition was among the "shorty" cars – those under
40 feet IL. In 1932 there were 394,573 such cars, while in 1938
there were 153,010. The number of cars with IL of 40 feet to just
less than 50 feet went from 604,785 to 578,349 – a loss of less than
5%. The number of long cars (IL of 50 feet or longer) increased by
over 6%, from 25,845 to 32,696.

The decline in number of cars was accompanied by a decline in
aggregate capacity: In 1932 this was 2,944,908,870 cubic feet for
the U.S. box/auto/vent fleet; in 1938 it was 2,349,031,999 cubic feet
(it rebounded to 2,432,155,623 cu ft by April 1942, the last ORER for
which I have capacity in cubic feet). Measured in pounds, capacity
in 1932 was 85,884,780,000 lbs; in 1938 it was 67,018,717,000 lbs and
remained close to this figure until July 1950.

I posted an Excel file summarizing these data in the files section of
our list: "Number_of_boxcars_by_road_and_length_1932-1950.xls"

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming


New file uploaded to STMFC

STMFC@...
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the STMFC
group.

File : /Number_of_boxcars_by_road_and_length_1932-1950.xls
Uploaded by : laramielarry <ostresh@uwyo.edu>
Description : Number of box, auto, and ventilator cars, U.S., by road and inside car length, from ORERs of 1932, 1938, 1942, 1945, 1949 and 1950.

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/Number_of_boxcars_by_road_and_length_1932-1950.xls

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.htmlfiles

Regards,

laramielarry <ostresh@uwyo.edu>


Re: NYC Dewitt Yard video, circa 1930...

earlyrail
 

Posted by: "Steve Lucas" stevelucas3@yahoo.ca stevelucas3
Sat Oct 25, 2008 7:55 pm (PDT)
Fascinating stuff, with lots of STMFC content. I'm not sure about
surfing on the tops of boxcars, but it seems to have been a commmon
practice in this yard.
http://media2.syr.edu/OHA/DewittRailYardssm.wmv
Steve Lucas.
"Surfing" was very common in this yard. I fact it was required!

This was a hump yard without retarders. Therefore a Hump Rider (brakeman) was required on each cut of cars.

Howard Garner


NYC Dewitt Yard video, circa 1930...

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

Fascinating stuff, with lots of STMFC content. I'm not sure about
surfing on the tops of boxcars, but it seems to have been a commmon
practice in this yard.

http://media2.syr.edu/OHA/DewittRailYardssm.wmv

Steve Lucas.


Re: Naperville

jerryglow2
 

Sorry that message was meant for the MOPAC Group. Response from this
group would (I assume) be enormous.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "jerryglow2" <jerryglow@...> wrote:

Who plans to attend? It would be nice to know so we can look for each
other. I will be driving up with a friend. Lee Freeman had plans to
attend as he missed the MPHS meet but had to cancel Naperville also.

Jerry Glow


Naperville

jerryglow2
 

Who plans to attend? It would be nice to know so we can look for each
other. I will be driving up with a friend. Lee Freeman had plans to
attend as he missed the MPHS meet but had to cancel Naperville also.

Jerry Glow


Re: Naperville

seaboard_1966
 

WrightTRAK will be there and we will take checks, credit cards and good ole fashioned green backs.


Denis Blake
One of the WrightTRAK Guys

----- Original Message -----
From: <briankd.usf.net@usfamily.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 4:41 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Naperville


Between checks and cash, I have never had any problems with purchases.
Even at Bobs Photos, I have written checks in the past. I won't argue with
Bruce Smith though, this may be something new. Other larger venders will
usually take cash, check or credit card. Brian Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "gn3397" <heninger@medicine.nodak.edu>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 11:16 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Naperville


Hello,
I was hoping I could prevail on the experience of the Naperville
veterans in the group.
What forms of payment do the vendors (especially Bob's Photos and Jay
Williams, etc.) take at
Naperville? Do I need cash, or will I be able to use a credit card? This
is the first time I will be
able to go, so thanks for the help.

Sincerely,
Robert D. Heninger
Iowa City, Iowa





------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




--- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! -- http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html ---


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.8.3/1745 - Release Date: 10/25/2008 9:53 AM


Re: Naperville

briankd.usf.net@...
 

Between checks and cash, I have never had any problems with purchases. Even at Bobs Photos, I have written checks in the past. I won't argue with Bruce Smith though, this may be something new. Other larger venders will usually take cash, check or credit card. Brian Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "gn3397" <heninger@medicine.nodak.edu>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 11:16 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Naperville


Hello,
I was hoping I could prevail on the experience of the Naperville veterans in the group.
What forms of payment do the vendors (especially Bob's Photos and Jay Williams, etc.) take at
Naperville? Do I need cash, or will I be able to use a credit card? This is the first time I will be
able to go, so thanks for the help.

Sincerely,
Robert D. Heninger
Iowa City, Iowa





------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




--- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! -- http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html ---


Re: Naperville

Bruce Smith
 

On Sat, October 25, 2008 11:15 am, gn3397 wrote:
Hello,
I was hoping I could prevail on the experience of the Naperville
veterans in the group.
What forms of payment do the vendors (especially Bob's Photos and Jay
Williams, etc.) take at
Naperville? Do I need cash, or will I be able to use a credit card? This
is the first time I will be
able to go, so thanks for the help.

Sincerely,
Robert D. Heninger
Iowa City, Iowa
Robert,

Bob's is a cash only operation. Many of the other vendors will take
credit cards, such as Westerfield and F&C. Sunshine takes checks.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: Air Dump Car Question...

Jack Burgess
 

I've thought it but haven't decided yet...

Jack

Jack,
I picked up a MEW car some time ago with thoughts of
rebuilding. Have
you considered an article on your project?

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Naperville

gn3397 <heninger@...>
 

Hello,
I was hoping I could prevail on the experience of the Naperville veterans in the group.
What forms of payment do the vendors (especially Bob's Photos and Jay Williams, etc.) take at
Naperville? Do I need cash, or will I be able to use a credit card? This is the first time I will be
able to go, so thanks for the help.

Sincerely,
Robert D. Heninger
Iowa City, Iowa


Re: Air Dump Car Question...

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

Jack,
I picked up a MEW car some time ago with thoughts of rebuilding. Have you considered an article on your project?

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Air Dump Car Question...

Jack Burgess
 

Robert wrote:

The cylinders would not necessarily have to at mid stroke with
the body in normal position. As long as the rod end ("Live End")
has a clevis that can act as a hinge that cylinder can be fully
retracted while the opposite side works. The same arrangements
would be on the opposite side.
When I read this last night and other comments about not seeing the piston rod at all except for when the body was being dumped, I thought that I'd need to rebuild my model this morning. But I finally understood Robert's answer (and Richard Brennan's comment) and realized that they are referring to a more "modern" design which uses two cylinders per side and the body rotates around the piston attachment points on the side not being raised. However, my model is of an older design side dump on which the body pivots on pedestals along the center of the frame. In studying the photos that I have, a portion of the piston rod is visible. (Unfortunately, I'm using an old MEW kit as the basis of the model which is correct size-wise but the body seems slightly too high off of the frame, exposing more of the piston rod than it should.)

Lastly, those dump cars used air. If the cylinder were not fully
retracted, that opposite side would be "spongy' and not support
the weight very well.
On the model I'm building, I'm guessing that both cylinders would need to be pressurized slightly (and thus working against each other) so that they were pushing against the body to keep it level for loading and travel. There were a pair of safety chains on each side from the body to the bolsters to keep the body from tipping in the case of loss of air pressure.

Thanks for everyone's help...

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


Re: giraffe loading, 1955

Richard White
 

I must be the only member of this group who has loaded giraffes onto a railroad car.
This was in East Africa on the metre gauge East African Railways in 1969/70.
We did not sedate them, they are docile in captivity.
We didn't use box cars but low-side gondolas.
The giraffe were loaded in crates - one per crate.
We loaded two crates to a car and one attendant rode on every car.
The crates were fitted with adjustable cross-bars so that the giraffe was compelled to keep its head within load-gauge.
The trip from Tororo to Mombasa took two days and was the finest railroading experience on the planet. Descending the Mau escarpment from Timboroa summit at dawn was pure magic a memory that remains vivid nearly 40 years later and which I will treasure until the day that I die.
Richard White


Re: 1940s tank car questions

Randy Hammill
 

In New Britain, CT, the Armour and Swift local plants were in adjacent
buildings.

But that's not what I found most interesting. In the 2 or so mile
section of mainline that has the largest number of industries served
there are at least 8 fuel companies. Most of them are coal & wood, but
a couple are oil. And those aren't the only ones in town either.

Randy Hammill
http://newbritainstation.com


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Kurt Laughlin" <fleeta@...> wrote:

You can add to the example list Beaver Falls PA which had both Armour
and
Cudahy packing houses, in adjacent buildings. Also, curiously, three
to
four scrap yards at any given time.

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Storzek

. . . the reality of the situation is that most places that were
large
enough to support one of a type of
merchant normally had two, in competition with each other. . .


Re: Air Dump Car Question...

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Richard Brennan wrote:
There are some good "as-built" photos in Kaminski's "Magor Car Corporation" book...
Pages 145-147 show shiny steel piston rods. The photo on p145 is noted by Magor as "identical to SPMW 2900-2919"...
True, but all shiny rods shown are with the car body in the full dump position. NONE of the piston rods shown anywhere in the book are shiny in the normal position.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Air Dump Car Question...

Richard Brennan <brennan8@...>
 

At 07:40 PM 10/24/2008, Jack Burgess wrote:
<snip>
My question...should the piston rod coming out of these
air cylinders be a "shiny" steel color similar to the steel piston rods you
see on hydraulic construction equipment such as backhoes or some other color?
There are some good "as-built" photos in Kaminski's "Magor Car Corporation" book...
Pages 145-147 show shiny steel piston rods.
The photo on p145 is noted by Magor as "identical to SPMW 2900-2919"...


--------------------
Richard Brennan - San Leandro CA
--------------------


Re: Air Dump Car Question...

Bill Vaughn
 

The rods are a shiney silver just like the pistons on a brake cylinder.

--- On Fri, 10/24/08, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@opendoor.com> wrote:

From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@opendoor.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Air Dump Car Question...
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, October 24, 2008, 8:11 PM






On Oct 24, 2008, at 7:40 PM, Jack Burgess wrote:

I'm in the process of painting a model of a Western air operated
side dump
car. These cars had an air cylinder on each side of the frame to
raise the
body for dumping. My question...should the piston rod coming out of
these
air cylinders be a "shiny" steel color similar to the steel piston
rods you
see on hydraulic construction equipment such as backhoes or some other
color?
Jack, in the photos I have of air dump cars, the shiny piston rods
are only visible when they are extended in order to tip the dump
body, not when they are in the normal position with the body level.

Richard Hendrickson

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Air Dump Car Question...

rfederle@...
 

I have not studied these cars other than photos either. I have over 30 years as a Marine Chief Engineer and worked with thousands of Pneumati and Hydraulic Cylinders.

The cylinders would not necessarily have to at mid stroke with the body in normal position. As long as the rod end ("Live End") has a clevis that can act as a hinge that cylinder can be fully retracted while the opposite side works. The same arrangements would be on the opposite side.

Technically, the cylinder should be fully retracted for strength since the opposite will be "pushing" against it. If the application wiould need precision possitioning you would need all cylinders to operate with some sort of individual control device for that positioning.

Lastly, those dump cars used air. If the cylinder were not fully retracted, that opposite side would be "spongy' and not support the weight very well. We have pneumatic cylinders for positioning and they do not have much force. Hydraulics would be needed for strength and force.

If you could substitute the (assumed) plastic "rods" for steel you would not have to worry about paint as you would have the real steel finish.

Hope I have not confused you further.

Robert Federle
---- Jack Burgess <jack@yosemitevalleyrr.com> wrote:

That is what I was thinking too. Unfortunately, the photos that I have don't
show the rod that well. But if one side of the dump goes up, the other side
has to go down and thus it would seem that both rods need to be at mid-level
in the non-dump position. On the other hand, I might be mis-understanding
the operations....

Jack

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Richard Hendrickson
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 8:12 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Air Dump Car Question...


On Oct 24, 2008, at 7:40 PM, Jack Burgess wrote:

I'm in the process of painting a model of a Western air operated
side dump
car. These cars had an air cylinder on each side of the frame to
raise the
body for dumping. My question...should the piston rod coming out of
these
air cylinders be a "shiny" steel color similar to the steel piston
rods you
see on hydraulic construction equipment such as backhoes or some other
color?







Jack, in the photos I have of air dump cars, the shiny piston rods
are only visible when they are extended in order to tip the dump
body, not when they are in the normal position with the body level.

Richard Hendrickson






------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


110741 - 110760 of 187384