Date   

Re: Safe Resins for Model Production?

Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

Victor - If you want to be really safe and can use structures with thick walls, use dental plaster. The cheapest resin and easiest to work with is polyester. However, it is the least safe. It outgasses styrene monomer which in large quantities can have many adverse health effects. Urethanes are harder to work with but are safer. The quicker the cure, the safer because there is less chance of breathing the fumes. But use ventilation with any resin. - Al Westerfield

----- Original Message -----
From: wabash2813
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 2:48 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Safe Resins for Model Production?


This is a little topic but its seem there are folks in this group that
are in the know here.

I actually am not interested in rolling stock but structures.

Thanks in advance

Victor Baird
Fort Wayne, Indiana


Safe Resins for Model Production?

reporterllc
 

This is a little topic but its seem there are folks in this group that
are in the know here.

I actually am not interested in rolling stock but structures.

Thanks in advance

Victor Baird
Fort Wayne, Indiana


Re: A Great Decline

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Bruce Smith wrote:
To add to Tony's response, looking at the number of cars is only half the equation. The cars being removed from the roster were small capacity cars, which were being replaced by fewer higher capacity cars.
Quite true, and a trend which continues today, even if invisible from the viewpoint of this list. There may be fewer trains today, but annual tonnages are well in excess of our favorite steam-diesel transition era.
Speaking of larger cars, as this thread does, inevitably reminds me of the late Harriman era, when UP and SP were building very large (for that day) furniture/automobile cars. These immediately attracted the attention of the eastern lines, and at a 1909 meeting of the Association of Transportation and Car Accounting Officers, the Pennsylvania Railroad representative complained about the ". . . very high box cars belonging to certain Western Lines . . ." This is, of course, somewhat ironic in that 25 years later, the PRR would be taking credit for pressuring other railroads to accept higher box cars. I guess it's not only whose ox is being gored, but when it's gored.

BTW, "scrapped" may not be the right term for some of these cars. The PRR burned tens of thousands of wood XL boxcars in massive funeral pyres, salvaging the metal out of the ashes.
Yes, a dramatic story, and another illustration of one danger of standardization (and here I mean for anyone, not singling out the PRR): you can get overenthused about your new standard and buy way too many, or for too long. When first designed, the XL was a progressive car, but over those years in which the PRR continued to build huge numbers of them, car design was progressing rapidly, and by the time XL production ceased, they were already obsolete.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: A Great Decline

laramielarry <ostresh@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, destron@... wrote:

Weren't there some pretty big (50+ foot) cars being built out west
already
before WW1? I recall reading with some surprise about some
surprisingle
massive cars, quite early along.

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC
Hi Frank

In the February 1932 ORER there were 31 box/auto cars over 50' 7 5/8"
IL. The MILW had 30 cars with IL = 60'0"; and the PRR had one with IL
= 70'6". Both were gone by 1938. In the 1949 and 1950 ORERs there
were 111 "long" cars.

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming


Re: A Great Decline

laramielarry <ostresh@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, water.kresse@... wrote:

Larry,

... Did your data include FGEX, PFEX, etc.?

Al Kresse
Hi Al. No.

(And thanks for the C&O information.)

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming


Seeking Good Phone Numbers for Burg, Bob's Photo, and Paul Dunn

Bob McCarthy
 

Howdy Ted and all others,
 
     Thankyou for your assistance and taking the time find correct information on these parties listed below.
 
     To recap I need good phone numbers and addresses for the following people;
 
                   Bob's Photo,
                   P.O. Box 209,
                   Farmers, KY 40319          for CofGa Door and a Half Boxcar #6357
 
                   PH: 606-780-9905  Not working, need number
 
                   Charles Winters
                   ???
                   Kansas City, KS ????     for CofGa Door and a Half Boxcar #6427
 
                   PH; Unknown
 
                   Richard Burg
                   2155 E. Whittemore,
                   Burton, Mich. 48529        for CofGa Door and a Half Boxcar #6715

                   PH:  313-483-8199   Not working, need number
 
     Let me thank everyone ahead of time for your assistance.
 
Thanks,
 
Bob McCarthy

--- On Mon, 10/27/08, Ted Schnepf <railsunl@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

From: Ted Schnepf <railsunl@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Naperville-New Shipper Guide
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 4:30 PM







Hi Everyone,
As in the past Rails Unlimited will be at Naperville and will take
all kinds of payment, possibly including bartering.

I will have many HO scale models, and the newest books, including
those of freight cars.

My newest Shippers Guide is for the Great Northern RR. It is 319
pages and lists all towns, in order, on the GN, and all industries in
that town, and which railroads serve it, and any special notes about
the industry. The book has a comb binding so it opens flat while
preparing prototype way bills for your freight cars.

This book joins the other new book, the Missouri Pacific Shippers
Guide. Others in the series include Milw (2 each), CNW, UP, C&EI, RI
and Chicago Switching district. These earlier books can be viewed at
my website below. For those not coming to Naperville, I can also
handle mail orders.

On the O scale urethane car front will have PRR GRA and ACL K7 gons
and the newest the B&O M53 wagontop boxcar. All with custom decals.

There are still some operators openings for the Sunday morning op session.

See you in Naperville

Ted

Rails Unlimited
Ted Schnepf
railsunl@sbcglobal. net
847-697-5353 or 5366
126 Will Scarlet
Elgin, Ill. 60120
http://RailsUnlimit ed.ribbonrail. com/

Model Railroad Sales and Service with
a personal touch.
Books new and used. HO and O scales.
DCC supplies. O scale urethane cars.
Photos and darkroom services.
Checks, cash (0%) or credit (secure server at web site 4% added).


















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: autoracks, ca. 1915

Richard Brennan <brennan8@...>
 

Re: Auto loading on flats:

In John White's "American Railroad Freight Car" (p394, Fig 6.17) there is a full side-on photo of what appears to be a nearly identical loading arrangement.
There are 9 circa-1923 Buick soft-tops loaded on a long Grand Trunk flat. 8 of the cars are loaded 2-high using the metal ladder-type supports on each wheel of the upper auto. There is also a wood brace in some of the supports, presumably to prevent side sway. The 9th car is loaded at a 45-degree angle, nose down, and I can't see any reason to do this other than to save a couple of feet of clearance at the end of the car.

Hope this helps....

--------------------
Richard Brennan - San Leandro CA
--------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In STMFC Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
Being very careful with my terminology (Mr Thompson) I can see that on the nearest flat car, there
appears to be at least two ladder-shaped vertical frames which appear may be put into the stake
pockets on the flat car. They >might be< spaced so as to support the wheels of the automobiles in
the top row. These appear on the further flat cars as well.

Nobody's supplied any guesses about the make of automobiles shown. I'm far from being any sort of
expert, but the one suspended from the gantry MIGHT be a Hupmobile. There was an antique car
collector who lived in my area when I was a kid who had a BRIGHT yellow-painted Hupmobile with solid
disk wheels; I know that not all Hupmobiles had those solid wheels, though, but the body shape
reminds me of that car. This is probably an erroneous guess.

SGL

Any more photos of this subject. Very interesting. How were the top
rwo of cars secured ?

thks

Charlie Harris

Here is another interesting photo.

http://tinyurl.com/6jx22g
--- End forwarded message ---


Re: Naperville-New Shipper Guide

Ted Schnepf
 

Hi Everyone,

As in the past Rails Unlimited will be at Naperville and will take all kinds of payment, possibly including bartering.

I will have many HO scale models, and the newest books, including those of freight cars.

My newest Shippers Guide is for the Great Northern RR. It is 319 pages and lists all towns, in order, on the GN, and all industries in that town, and which railroads serve it, and any special notes about the industry. The book has a comb binding so it opens flat while preparing prototype way bills for your freight cars.

This book joins the other new book, the Missouri Pacific Shippers Guide. Others in the series include Milw (2 each), CNW, UP, C&EI, RI and Chicago Switching district. These earlier books can be viewed at my website below. For those not coming to Naperville, I can also handle mail orders.

On the O scale urethane car front will have PRR GRA and ACL K7 gons and the newest the B&O M53 wagontop boxcar. All with custom decals.

There are still some operators openings for the Sunday morning op session.

See you in Naperville

Ted


Rails Unlimited
Ted Schnepf
railsunl@sbcglobal.net
847-697-5353 or 5366
126 Will Scarlet
Elgin, Ill. 60120
http://RailsUnlimited.ribbonrail.com/

Model Railroad Sales and Service with
a personal touch.
Books new and used. HO and O scales.
DCC supplies. O scale urethane cars.
Photos and darkroom services.
Checks, cash (0%) or credit (secure server at web site 4% added).


Re: Richard Burg where are you?

Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

Bob - Rich Burg, 2155 E. Whittemore, Burton, MI 48529 313-483-8199 - Al Westerfield

----- Original Message -----
From: Bob McCarthy
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:00 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Richard Burg where are you?


Howdy!

A group of us are working to reproduce a highly detailed Central of Georgia Door and a Half 40 ' boxcar in Scale S.

The president of the Central of Georgia Historical Society provided a lead on images of boxcar #6715 showing both sides. It is a Paul Dunn photo in Richard Burg's collection.

If anyone knows how to reach Richard please forward that information to me. A phone number/email address would be appreciated.

When I am finished with it, I will post a how to build it article for anyone to use. See attached photo of these boxcars. They were built in 1941, 1944 and 1947.

Thanks,

Bob McCarthy
Modeling the Mighty Central of Georgia in Scale S

Thanks,

Bob McCarthy


Re: A Great Decline

Earl T. Hackett <hacketet@...>
 

Thanks for that bit of info. I've been looking for some interesting
freight car projects and a couple of ventilator boxes was at the top
of the list, but I just didn't know if they would be correct for 1952.
Since I model the eastern section of the C&O there was direct
interchange with all three of the lines mentioned below. Somewhere in
this stack of stuff I have drawings of a couple of them.

As for those big wooden box cars - also somewhere in the same stack I
have photos of several 50' double sheathed cars and IIRC, a single
sheathed car. I have always considered them a rarity and thus have
never modeled one. Maybe I should do something about that.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "laramielarry" <ostresh@...> wrote:
in the July 1950 ORER there were 23,242
short cars (from a U.S. total of 712,098 box, auto and ventilator
cars) - a little over 3% of the fleet. Over half of these were in
the
Southern ICC region (15,458), with the L&N, SEABOARD, and ACL
leading
the list.


Re: A Great Decline

Bruce Smith
 

On Oct 26, 2008, at 7:33 PM, Anthony Thompson wrote:
I'll suggest a different reason. The SW roads, as you term them,
had bigger clearances and were building bigger cars earlier. The NE
roads had a surfeit of small, old cars. That's an important reason for
the differences in scrapping rates.
To add to Tony's response, looking at the number of cars is only half the equation. The cars being removed from the roster were small capacity cars, which were being replaced by fewer higher capacity cars. For example, during WWII, the railroads carried vastly more freight than during WWI, with many fewer cars. They did that by increasing all sorts of parameters including load per car, longer trains, average speeds, etc... A student of freightcarology should realize that post WWII fleets were very much smaller than the pre- WWII and WWI fleets. The NYC USRA steel cars and the X29s were the last vast fleets for any RR. For example, the nearly 30,000 X29s were followed by the X31 which numbered around 12,000 (counting all subclasses), which in turn was followed by approximately 3,000 X37s, essentially setting the tone for the rest of the steam era.

BTW, "scrapped" may not be the right term for some of these cars. The PRR burned tens of thousands of wood XL boxcars in massive funeral pyres, salvaging the metal out of the ashes.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Richard Burg where are you?

Bob McCarthy
 

Howdy!
 
     A group of us are working to reproduce a highly detailed Central of Georgia Door and a Half 40 ' boxcar in Scale S.
 
    The president of the Central of Georgia Historical Society provided a lead on images of boxcar #6715 showing both sides.  It is a Paul Dunn photo in Richard Burg's collection.
 
     If anyone knows how to reach Richard please forward that information to me.  A phone number/email address would be appreciated.
 
    When I am finished with it, I will post a how to  build it article for anyone to use.  See attached photo of these boxcars.  They were built in 1941, 1944 and 1947.
 
Thanks,
 
Bob McCarthy
Modeling the Mighty Central of Georgia in Scale S
 
Thanks,
 
Bob McCarthy




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: A Great Decline

Ray Breyer
 

"Earl T. Hackett" <hacketet@verizon.net> wrote:
>>Did any of the short car last into the 50s? A short car would
>>make an interesting addition to my car fleet.

Hi Earl,

Past 1952 and the K brake ban, you've essentially got four choices for a short boxcar on your roster: CN or CP "Fowler" single sheathed boxcars, ACL or SAL ventilated boxcars, DL&W or D&H double sheathed plain boxcars, or MP or NC&StL double sheathed boxes. A fifth option would be one of the 1100 or so NC&StL short all-steel rebuild cars, which I hear will be coming out as a resin kit some time in the near future.

Regards,

Ray Breyer


Re: A Great Decline

laramielarry <ostresh@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Earl T. Hackett" <hacketet@...> wrote:

A new list member.
. . .
Did any of the short car last into the 50s? A short car would make
an
interesting addition to my car fleet.
Hi Earl

Welcome to our list! If you check the Excel file that I mentioned in
my post, you will see that in the July 1950 ORER there were 23,242
short cars (from a U.S. total of 712,098 box, auto and ventilator
cars) - a little over 3% of the fleet. Over half of these were in the
Southern ICC region (15,458), with the L&N, SEABOARD, and ACL leading
the list.

The file is in the Files section of our list and is called
"Number_of_boxcars_by_road_and_length_1932-1950.xls". Excel "readers"
are available for free download at a variety of sites on the web.

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming


Re: A Great Decline

destron@...
 

I'll suggest a different reason. The SW roads, as you term them,
had bigger clearances and were building bigger cars earlier. The NE
roads had a surfeit of small, old cars. That's an important reason for
the differences in scrapping rates.
Weren't there some pretty big (50+ foot) cars being built out west already
before WW1? I recall reading with some surprise about some surprisingle
massive cars, quite early along.

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC


Re: A Great Decline

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Earl T. Hackett wrote:
A new list member.
Welcome, Earl. This topic raises a number of points.

I got into this conversation a bit late, but would like to suggest a reason for the variation in the decline of the short box cars. The lines with the least declines are all south west roads. The cars were all wood construction. Wood lasts a lot longer in the desert SW than in the relatively wet NE.
First of all, the cars ran freely everywhere, so it's not as if the SW cars lived there all their lives, and the NE cars stayed in their home region. Second, the whole point was to maintain the paint on the cars. It had been proven in the 19th century that wood held up for very long times, longer than the technical service usefulness of most cars, if it was painted every five to seven years. Third, there had not been many all-wood box cars since before World War I, and after 1900 most roads were changing to steel underframes, the most vulnerable part of a car.
I'll suggest a different reason. The SW roads, as you term them, had bigger clearances and were building bigger cars earlier. The NE roads had a surfeit of small, old cars. That's an important reason for the differences in scrapping rates.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: A Great Decline

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Don Burn wrote:
"In additon there were a fair number of 40' wood box cars on a number
of north eastern railroads in that era."

Don is not the only one guilty of this example of sloppy terminology -
what exactly do you mean by "wood" boxcars? If you are lumping
together both single-sheathed and double-sheathed boxcars, it's a huge
mistake. While these cars may appear similar in function to the
untrained eyes of many modelers, single-sheathed and double-sheathed
boxcars are at least a generation apart technology-wise.


Ben Hom


Re: autoracks, ca. 1915

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Being very careful with my terminology (Mr Thompson) I can see that on the nearest flat car, there
appears to be at least two ladder-shaped vertical frames which appear may be put into the stake
pockets on the flat car. They >might be< spaced so as to support the wheels of the automobiles in
the top row. These appear on the further flat cars as well.

Nobody's supplied any guesses about the make of automobiles shown. I'm far from being any sort of
expert, but the one suspended from the gantry MIGHT be a Hupmobile. There was an antique car
collector who lived in my area when I was a kid who had a BRIGHT yellow-painted Hupmobile with solid
disk wheels; I know that not all Hupmobiles had those solid wheels, though, but the body shape
reminds me of that car. This is probably an erroneous guess.

SGL

Any more photos of this subject. Very interesting. How were the top
rwo of cars secured ?

thks

Charlie Harris

Here is another interesting photo.

http://tinyurl.com/6jx22g <http://tinyurl.com/6jx22g>


Re: A Great Decline

Don Burn
 

Earl,

I don't have the references in front of me, but I believe the D&H, NH and Southern 36' box cars made it to 1950. L&N 36' box cars may have also. In additon there were a fair number of 40' wood box cars on a number of north eastern railroads in that era.

Don Burn

----- Original Message -----
From: "Earl T. Hackett" <hacketet@verizon.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:41 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: A Great Decline


A new list member. I got into this conversation a bit late, but would
like to suggest a reason for the variation in the decline of the short
box cars. The lines with the least declines are all south west roads.
The cars were all wood construction. Wood lasts a lot longer in the
desert SW than in the relatively wet NE. With reduced demand there
was no reason for the NE roads to repair the cars while the SW roads
may not have wanted to spend the money to scrap them out.

Did any of the short car last into the 50s? A short car would make an
interesting addition to my car fleet.


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "laramielarry" <ostresh@...> wrote:

Hi Folks

Among the larger railroads - those with over 10,000 box/auto/vent
cars in 1938 - one of the biggest percentage losers was the ERIE,
which went from 23,624 cars in 1932 to 10,533 in 1938. The NYC went
from 89,932 cars to 63,111 and the PRR from 93,414 to 76,123. The
ATSF "only" declined from 39,997 to 35,826; the SP from 27,105 to
24,398; and the UP from 29,851 to 27,624.





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Re: A Great Decline

water.kresse@...
 

Larry,

I believe you have an interesting mix of events going on there. On the C&O: Auto rack equipped cars were going up after Evans Prod Co released their auto-loaders in 1933. Ventilated box cars car were going down, i.e. being converted into regular box cars. All steel box cars were replacing wooden-sheathed box cars. Dry-bulk covered hopper cars were replacing box cars for certain services. Reefers were replacing ventilated boxes also. Did your data include FGEX, PFEX, etc.

For the conservative C&O, coal carried them through the Depression. 1929 and 1934-37 were big years for buying twin hops. Their merchandise freight business was secondary until it absorbed the PM in 1947.

Wasn't the Erie into or near custodial bankruptcy and a reorganization in the 30s?

Your 1938 statistics seem to imply the we were in sad shape box car wise going into WW2?

Al Kresse

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "laramielarry" <ostresh@uwyo.edu>
Hi Folks

I just finished transcribing portions of the February 1932 ORER into
an Excel spreadsheet (U.S. box, auto and ventilator car interior
dimensions, capacities, and number of cars, by series) and will soon
begin pestering you for information regarding sheathing type (double,
single, or steel sheathed). Before I do that, however, I thought
I would pass along some summary information that some of you might
find interesting, if not unexpected.

The total number of box, auto, and ventilator cars in 1932 was
1,025,203; in January 1938 it was 764,055. This is a reduction in
the U.S. fleet of over a quarter of a million cars, about 25%,
and presumably due to the Great Depression.

The attrition was not evenly distributed around the county: The
Great Lakes and the Southern ICC regions were hit especially hard,
both with a loss of about a third of their fleets. The Pocahontas
ICC region lost less than 5% of its cars.

Among the larger railroads those with over 10,000 box/auto/vent
cars in 1938 one of the biggest percentage losers was the ERIE,
which went from 23,624 cars in 1932 to 10,533 in 1938. The NYC went
from 89,932 cars to 63,111 and the PRR from 93,414 to 76,123. The
ATSF "only" declined from 39,997 to 35,826; the SP from 27,105 to
24,398; and the UP from 29,851 to 27,624.

Nearly all of the attrition was among the "shorty" cars those under
40 feet IL. In 1932 there were 394,573 such cars, while in 1938
there were 153,010. The number of cars with IL of 40 feet to just
less than 50 feet went from 604,785 to 578,349 a loss of less than
5%. The number of long cars (IL of 50 feet or longer) increased by
over 6%, from 25,845 to 32,696.

The decline in number of cars was accompanied by a decline in
aggregate capacity: In 1932 this was 2,944,908,870 cubic feet for
the U.S. box/auto/vent fleet; in 1938 it was 2,349,031,999 cubic feet
(it rebounded to 2,432,155,623 cu ft by April 1942, the last ORER for
which I have capacity in cubic feet). Measured in pounds, capacity
in 1932 was 85,884,780,000 lbs; in 1938 it was 67,018,717,000 lbs and
remained close to this figure until July 1950.

I posted an Excel file summarizing these data in the files section of
our list: "Number_of_boxcars_by_road_and_length_1932-1950.xls"

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming

110721 - 110740 of 187390