Date   

Re: a GATX prototype for SC&F tanks?

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Rob Kirkham wrote:
Also, I think I have heard the Standard Tank bolster/saddle part described as a diaphragm. Maybe I'm wrong about that - its a vague memory. Any comments on the unique (I perceive) design used by Standard and the correct nomenclature for it?
Rob, it's a distinctive and even signature appearance, unmistakable as a Standard Tank design, but functionally not unlike other builders' designs, as a combined bolster and tank saddle. I've never heard it called a "diaphragm."

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Looking to contact Dan smith

al.kresse <water.kresse@...>
 

Folks,

I'm looking to contact Dan Smith via e-mail. I just recently met him
at the 2008 Naperville conference and he supposedly has references on
hand-brakes. I'm interested in getting images of the C&O 1929-1940 50-
ton offset-side hopper car vertical wheel hand-brake variants called
out in their diagram sheets. I can get about half from my falling
apart 1937 CBC.

Al Kresse


Re: a GATX prototype for SC&F tanks?

Robert kirkham
 

Not in Canada I'm afraid. Basically, Google books doesn't allow Canadian addresses to download out of copyright books. Its been the case with numerous other very interesting volumes that are mentioned on this list from time to time.

Meanwhile, thanks to Richard and so many others for the info on the Standard tank component of the GATX fleet. A friend (part of the local tank car fraternity) has ordered a hard copy of Epstein's book, so I'll be working out how to borrow it some time soon.

A follow up question: where we have a photo of a car in a given GATX number series, is it likely that all or most other cars in the series are of the same design?

Also, I think I have heard the Standard Tank bolster/saddle part described as a diaphragm. Maybe I'm wrong about that - its a vague memory. Any comments on the unique (I perceive) design used by Standard and the correct nomenclature for it?

Rob Kirkham


--------------------------------------------------
From: "Schuyler Larrabee" <schuyler.larrabee@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 6:57 PM
To: <STMFC@...>
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: a GATX prototype for SC&F tanks?

You can look at the book Richard referenced here:

<http://books.google.com/books?id=fE8LUZD_5PMC&pg=PP11&dq=Ralph+C.+Epstein,+GATX:+A+History+of+the+G
eneral+American+Transportation+Corporation,+1898-1948+(New+York,+North+River+Press,+1948)&lr=#PPA176
,M1>


Re: a GATX prototype for SC&F tanks?

Schuyler Larrabee
 

You can look at the book Richard referenced here:

<http://books.google.com/books?id=fE8LUZD_5PMC&pg=PP11&dq=Ralph+C.+Epstein,+GATX:+A+History+of+the+G
eneral+American+Transportation+Corporation,+1898-1948+(New+York,+North+River+Press,+1948)&lr=#PPA176
,M1>


SGL

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Richard Hendrickson
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 1:41 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: a GATX prototype for SC&F tanks?

On Nov 12, 2008, at 7:26 AM, Gene Green wrote:

Rob,
Don't forget that GATX acquired Standard Tank Car in 1928. Whether
this was GATX's only tank car manufacturing facility or one among
several I can't say but, at least for a while, GATX would have been
the
manufacturer of tank cars to Standard's designs. It is quite likely
they would have manufacturered "Standard" tank cars for their own
fleet.
(GATX manufacturered tank cars in Chicago in earlier years.)
At the time GATC acquired STC and its large, modern plant in Sharon,
PA, GATC was building new tank cars both at East Chicago, IN and
Warren, OH. Photographic evidence indicates that the shift in
manufacturing tank cars to the Sharon works took place fairly rapidly
and that the STC designs were discontinued almost immediately, though
as late as 1930 some cars of GATC design were stenciled as being
built by STC (i.e., at Sharon rather than East Chicago or Warren).
Apparently GATC did not purchase (or build) new tank cars of STC
design for its own fleet, but with the purchase of STC it acquired
STC's own leasing fleet, operated as the Standard Transit Co., which
numbered more that 2,800 cars in 1928. Subsequently GATC acquired
many additional STC cars when it purchased and leased back the tank
cars of various petroleum companies (e.g. Texaco, Phillips) and other
private owners (e.g., Quaker City Tank Line, Pennsylvania-Conley Tank
Car Co.) GATC's East Chicago and Warren plants continued to repair
and maintain tank cars, and of course East Chicago had expanded in
the 1920s to become the location where GATC built many new cars of
other types. Much if this information is covered in Ralph C.
Epstein, GATX: A History of the General American Transportation
Corporation, 1898-1948 (New York, North River Press, 1948).

Richard Hendrickson






Re: a GATX prototype for SC&F tanks?

Walter M. Clark
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Rob Kirkham" <rdkirkham@...> wrote:

I'm thinking about the modelling options for the SC&F tank car
offerings.
I've at least one Standard Tank car in private ownership paint and
lettering
I can justify, but I'm hoping to find more generic uses for these
models.
Just wondering about the 6000 gallon and 8000 gallon cars (or any of
the
others projected) from Southern Car & Foundry as possible matches to
any of
the cars purchased over the years (second hand I imagine) by GATX?

As has been explained on this list a few times by those of you who have
really studied the subject, the GATX fleet was in part comprised of
many the
tank cars of many other smaller companies through acquisitions (both
corporate purchases and purchase of assets alone?) made by the
company. I
also vaguely understand that most of this had happened into the
thirties so
that by the time I model (1946) it was largely done. It is also
evident
that a certain number of the cars they took over were Standard Tank car
designs, similar to the models now about to come on lien from
Southern car &
Foundry.

As a result, is there any broader collection of evidence to justify
numbering each of the varieties of cars offered by SC&F into GATX
lettering?
Are number series available. I can't see using specialty service
cars like
Kellogg's for my modeling north of the border in Vancouver, so would
like to
hear about the more generic GATX fleet.....

thanks in advance,

Rob Kirkham
Rob,

On the SC&F website the prototype photo for the 2 compartment tank is
GATX 1638 in a nice, basic black with white lettering.

The radial course tank prototype photo is (I think it's the 8K) NATX
759, also in basic black with white lettering.

Time stopped in November 1941
Walter M. Clark
Pullman, Washington, USA


Re: sunshine's models visit to Kansas City Sat . Nov 15 ,2008

radius158
 

Thanks DG

--- In STMFC@..., "Steve Sandifer" <steve.sandifer@...>
wrote:

http://atsfrr.net/convention/KCMini.htm

----- Original Message -----
From: radius158
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 1:19 PM
Subject: [STMFC] sunshine's models visit to Kansas City Sat . Nov
15 ,2008


Does anyone know any particulars about the show in Kansas City
(Shawnee
Mission) that Sunshine models will be present at?? I mean ?
modelers
show etc? Sale ? Doug Gadner





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: a GATX prototype for SC&F tanks?

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
At the time GATC acquired STC and its large, modern plant in Sharon, PA, GATC was building new tank cars both at East Chicago, IN and Warren, OH.
It's worth observing that the town centers of Warren, OH and Sharon, PA are less than 15 miles apart, separated of course by the state line, and today are not far from being a single city.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: a GATX prototype for SC&F tanks?

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Nov 12, 2008, at 7:26 AM, Gene Green wrote:

Rob,
Don't forget that GATX acquired Standard Tank Car in 1928. Whether
this was GATX's only tank car manufacturing facility or one among
several I can't say but, at least for a while, GATX would have been
the
manufacturer of tank cars to Standard's designs. It is quite likely
they would have manufacturered "Standard" tank cars for their own
fleet.
(GATX manufacturered tank cars in Chicago in earlier years.)








At the time GATC acquired STC and its large, modern plant in Sharon,
PA, GATC was building new tank cars both at East Chicago, IN and
Warren, OH. Photographic evidence indicates that the shift in
manufacturing tank cars to the Sharon works took place fairly rapidly
and that the STC designs were discontinued almost immediately, though
as late as 1930 some cars of GATC design were stenciled as being
built by STC (i.e., at Sharon rather than East Chicago or Warren).
Apparently GATC did not purchase (or build) new tank cars of STC
design for its own fleet, but with the purchase of STC it acquired
STC's own leasing fleet, operated as the Standard Transit Co., which
numbered more that 2,800 cars in 1928. Subsequently GATC acquired
many additional STC cars when it purchased and leased back the tank
cars of various petroleum companies (e.g. Texaco, Phillips) and other
private owners (e.g., Quaker City Tank Line, Pennsylvania-Conley Tank
Car Co.) GATC's East Chicago and Warren plants continued to repair
and maintain tank cars, and of course East Chicago had expanded in
the 1920s to become the location where GATC built many new cars of
other types. Much if this information is covered in Ralph C.
Epstein, GATX: A History of the General American Transportation
Corporation, 1898-1948 (New York, North River Press, 1948).

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Gons w/wood floors

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Gene Green wrote:
Thanks to all those who made reference to actual sightings or photos of gondolas with the W. Now we have still another detail to include but only for the last 3 years of interest to this group.
But remember, Gene, it was only a Recommended Practice, not required. SP for one does not seem to have used this symbol on its applicable cars, at least as far forward as into the 1960s.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Gons w/wood floors

Gene Green <bierglaeser@...>
 

Thanks to all who responded to my question. Thanks to Guy who pointed
out that the provision DID pass. Thanks to all those who made
reference to actual sightings or photos of gondolas with the W. Now we
have still another detail to include but only for the last 3 years of
interest to this group.

Gene Green


Read before writing

Gene Green <bierglaeser@...>
 

Sorry about message 77118 which repeats some information contained in
Richard Hendrickson's earlier message. I need to read all the messages
before responding to any messages. Richard H's responses are always
better and more accurate than mine.

Gene Green


Re: a GATX prototype for SC&F tanks?

Gene Green <bierglaeser@...>
 

Rob,
Don't forget that GATX acquired Standard Tank Car in 1928. Whether
this was GATX's only tank car manufacturing facility or one among
several I can't say but, at least for a while, GATX would have been the
manufacturer of tank cars to Standard's designs. It is quite likely
they would have manufacturered "Standard" tank cars for their own fleet.
(GATX manufacturered tank cars in Chicago in earlier years.)

Gene Green


Re: Gons w/wood floors

cinderandeight@...
 

Guys,
The PRR also used the W in a Circle logo for wood floor gondolas. I have
dozens of photos with it. It was placed on the right end of the cars usually
on the third panel about a third of the way up the car side..
Rich Burg
**************Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news &
more!(http://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000001)


Re: a GATX prototype for SC&F tanks?

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Nov 11, 2008, at 10:18 PM, Rob Kirkham wrote:

I'm thinking about the modelling options for the SC&F tank car
offerings.
I've at least one Standard Tank car in private ownership paint and
lettering
I can justify, but I'm hoping to find more generic uses for these
models.
Just wondering about the 6000 gallon and 8000 gallon cars (or any
of the
others projected) from Southern Car & Foundry as possible matches
to any of
the cars purchased over the years (second hand I imagine) by GATX?







When GATC acquired the George Woodsmith holdings in 1928, they got
not only the STC plant at Sharon, PA but also the Standard Tank Car
Co.'s STCX leasing fleet as well as the Quaker City Tank Line, and
in later years they took over a variety of STC cars from private
owners who sold their tank car fleets to General American. I have
numerous photos of STC cars after they were absorbed into the GATX
fleet.

Richard Hendrickson


a GATX prototype for SC&F tanks?

Robert kirkham
 

I'm thinking about the modelling options for the SC&F tank car offerings. I've at least one Standard Tank car in private ownership paint and lettering I can justify, but I'm hoping to find more generic uses for these models. Just wondering about the 6000 gallon and 8000 gallon cars (or any of the others projected) from Southern Car & Foundry as possible matches to any of the cars purchased over the years (second hand I imagine) by GATX?

As has been explained on this list a few times by those of you who have really studied the subject, the GATX fleet was in part comprised of many the tank cars of many other smaller companies through acquisitions (both corporate purchases and purchase of assets alone?) made by the company. I also vaguely understand that most of this had happened into the thirties so that by the time I model (1946) it was largely done. It is also evident that a certain number of the cars they took over were Standard Tank car designs, similar to the models now about to come on lien from Southern car & Foundry.

As a result, is there any broader collection of evidence to justify numbering each of the varieties of cars offered by SC&F into GATX lettering? Are number series available. I can't see using specialty service cars like Kellogg's for my modeling north of the border in Vancouver, so would like to hear about the more generic GATX fleet.....

thanks in advance,

Rob Kirkham


Re: Gons w/wood floors

George Hollwedel
 

I've seen pictures of WP gons with the W

Prototype N Scale Models (TM)
by George Hollwedel
310 Loma Verde St
Buda, TX 78610-9785
512-796-6883
http://www.micro-trains.com/sr-0810-CurrentMonth.php#0810_Hollwedel
www.micro-trains.com/hollwedel.php
http://www.imrcmodels.com/n/sr/html/GHollSP50SDBoxN.htm
www.imrcmodels.com/n/sr/html/GHollATSFExpressN.htm

--- On Tue, 11/11/08, Scott Pitzer <scottp459@...> wrote:

From: Scott Pitzer <scottp459@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Gons w/wood floors
To: STMFC@...
Date: Tuesday, November 11, 2008, 7:51 PM
I can't recall ever seeing a gondola
or a picture of a gondola with an 8 inch ring with
the letter W in
the middle.
I've seen it on C&O gons, circa 1960 (roughly.)
Scott Pitzer



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



Re: Gons w/wood floors

Scott Pitzer
 

I can't recall ever seeing a gondola
or a picture of a gondola with an 8 inch ring with the letter W in
the middle.
I've seen it on C&O gons, circa 1960 (roughly.)
Scott Pitzer


The Keystone Modeler - November 2008

Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
 

The November issue of The Keystone Modeler is posted online at
http://www.prrths.com/Keystone%20Modeler/Keystone_Modeler.htm
featuring the following articles of interest:

Large Scale Class FM by Karl-Hans Koch
Making Bowser Better - F30A and F30D TOFC Flat Cars by Stan Rydarowicz
2008 New England RPM by Tim Garner


Ben Hom


Gons w/wood floors

Gene Green <bierglaeser@...>
 

Quoting from the 1956 Proceedings of the AAR's Mechanaical
Division, "IDENTIFICATION MARKINGS FOR GONDOLA CARS EQUIPPED WITH
WOOD FLOORS

"The General Committee, Operating-Transportation Division,
unanimously adopted the provision to the effect that all gondola cars
equipped with wood floors should be so designated by a symbol "W"
stencilled on the side of the car in order to save time in switching
as well as protect the placing of cars with wood floors where they
are not desired or required.

"The Mechanical Division was instructed to provide for a location on
the side of the car and a type of designation symbol so that
stencilling on all such cars would be uniform.

"A new plate as shown in Exhibit "M" of this report has been prepared
covering this request and is respectfully submitted as a letter
ballot item for approval by the members."

This may not have passed because I can't recall ever seeing a gondola
or a picture of a gondola with an 8 inch ring with the letter W in
the middle. Has anyone else ever come across such a stencil on a
gondola?

Gene Green


Re: sunshine's models visit to Kansas City Sat . Nov 15 ,2008

Steve SANDIFER
 

----- Original Message -----
From: radius158
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 1:19 PM
Subject: [STMFC] sunshine's models visit to Kansas City Sat . Nov 15 ,2008


Does anyone know any particulars about the show in Kansas City(Shawnee
Mission) that Sunshine models will be present at?? I mean ?modelers
show etc? Sale ? Doug Gadner

120161 - 120180 of 197109