Date   

Arch bar trucks, wood underframes and billboard ads.

destron@...
 

As I understand it, wood underframes were banned in the US in 1931; there
was some extensive discussion of that and the problems it would raise to
Canadian roads in some 1930 issues of Canadian Railway & Marine World.
(Mainly the discussions I saw were CN asking Parliament for more money to
get new steel cars, using the imminent US ban as a reason).

I'd have two questions: when were arch bar trucks banned from interchange
in the US, and when were these trucks and wood underframes banned in
Canada? Also: when were billboard cars banned in Canada if, as I assume,
they were indeed banned?

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC


Diaphragms: re Standard Tank Car bolsters

Robert kirkham
 

Hmmm,

I don't intend to resolve this - if I happen to come across the original source for using the word in reference to the cars, I'll post it.

At the same time, I guess one could argue that the very substantial combo bolster/saddle arrangement that is noteworthy on a Standard Tank Co. car (and some other designs) is distinct from those cars where the saddle was a more discrete part mounted above the bolster. Obviously its also discrete from the bolster type used on other freight cars - where no saddle concept is required. In that light, an argument could be made that the combo part on the Standard Tank Car shouldn't be called a bolster as it is more than that.

Not that I have an alternative word to describe it with.... But I confess I have been irritated a few times over the years when composing a message and attempting to refer efficiently to this area of tank car bodies.

Rob


--------------------------------------------------
From: "Anthony Thompson" <thompson@...>
Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 9:30 PM
To: <STMFC@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: a GATX prototype for SC&F tanks?

Dennis Storzek wrote:
Is it too late for me to chime in here? "Diaphragm" is a fabricator's
term, possibly now archaic, for a web that spaces structural members.
Used in this manner, any built-up bolster consists of four pressed
steel diaphragms, top and bottom cover plates, a center filler and
possibly end fillers. The usage of the term is correct, but hardly
unique to the Standard Tank Car Co. bolsters.
So if I understand your comment, Dennis, a bolster built up of
pieces called diaphragms can be called a "diaphragm." By the same
logic, since it's riveted together with rivets, I can call it a "rivet"
also. I would suggest that this example of calling the whole by the
name of some of its parts is NOT a very sound usage and certainly risks
being misleading.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




Re: a GATX prototype for SC&F tanks?

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Dennis Storzek wrote:
Is it too late for me to chime in here? "Diaphragm" is a fabricator's term, possibly now archaic, for a web that spaces structural members. Used in this manner, any built-up bolster consists of four pressed steel diaphragms, top and bottom cover plates, a center filler and possibly end fillers. The usage of the term is correct, but hardly unique to the Standard Tank Car Co. bolsters.
So if I understand your comment, Dennis, a bolster built up of pieces called diaphragms can be called a "diaphragm." By the same logic, since it's riveted together with rivets, I can call it a "rivet" also. I would suggest that this example of calling the whole by the name of some of its parts is NOT a very sound usage and certainly risks being misleading.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


new product

Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

Photos of the modern R7 reefers are now up on our web site www.westerfield.biz. We'll be ready to ship by mid-week. - Al Westerfield


Re: a GATX prototype for SC&F tanks?

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Rob Kirkham wrote:
Also, I think I have heard the Standard Tank bolster/saddle part
described as a diaphragm. Maybe I'm wrong about that - its a vague
memory. Any comments on the unique (I perceive) design used by
Standard and the correct nomenclature for it?
Rob, it's a distinctive and even signature appearance,
unmistakable as a Standard Tank design, but functionally not unlike
other builders' designs, as a combined bolster and tank saddle. I've
never heard it called a "diaphragm."

Tony Thompson
Is it too late for me to chime in here? "Diaphragm" is a fabricator's
term, possibly now archaic, for a web that spaces structural members.
Used in this manner, any built-up bolster consists of four pressed
steel diaphragms, top and bottom cover plates, a center filler and
possibly end fillers. The usage of the term is correct, but hardly
unique to the Standard Tank Car Co. bolsters.

Dennis


Re: Old news pieces and questions they raise.

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Schuyler Larrabee"
<schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:

Story published about the sales, September 1917

USRA formed, December 1917

Keep in mind, Canada technically entered the war in August of 1914,
when Great Britain declared war. They had been at it for three years
by the time of this news piece, and the Canadian car building capacity
was but a fraction of that in the US. I suspect further research will
find that what they were buying were antiquated wooden gondolas with
drop doors, but still necessitating a lot of hand labor to empty. What
the US roads were to receive from the USRA were self-clearing cars.

However, I detect in the article mostly sour grapes at the state
level; while the setting of rates was the business of the ICC, it was
good politics for state officials to cause a stir by opposing the
"greedy railroads" to the benefit of in-state industries. Left unsaid
in the report is whether the cars being sold were actually of any
further use to the railroads in Ohio; their customers likely had been
clamoring for self clearing cars to reduce their own labor costs.

Dennis


Re: New info for the freight car distribution question

Cyril Durrenberger
 

From about 1890 until 1920 each railroad had to annually report to ICC and to most state railroad commissions the number of miles and payments for privately owned cars.  In the early years it was just a list of the companies, then later the type of car and  the amount paid.  Typically the lists included privately owned refrigerator cars, box cars, flat cars, cooperage (rack) cars, tank cars, stock cars and gondolas.  The most frequent were refrigerator, tank and stock cars.  During the earlier years there were more privately owned stock cars than later.  Likewise, there were more privately owned tank cars in the later years than in the earlier years.

Cyril Durrenberger

--- On Sun, 11/16/08, Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote:
From: Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] New info for the freight car distribution question
To: STMFC@...
Date: Sunday, November 16, 2008, 4:30 PM











This is great information Frank - you are the first person to have

identified anything like it for Canada in my experience. Now I am

especially curious to know if it continued to be published into the later

thirties, through the second world war and into the 1950's.



I take it there is no breakdown by specific railway.



In the US the specific data for each class 1 RR is available in the ICC

reports - Tim Gilbert referred to the data frequently and it has been

discussed on both this list and the old Freightcars list.



While there are a multitude of considerations affecting the percent of home

road and other road cars on a given fleet, the data you have posted for the

earlier era suggests:

- Cars owned by reporting railways, 223,008, but total cars on lines:

203,671.

- home cars on home roads, 173,875

- Canadian owned foreign cars on home lines, 12,173,

- US owned cars on foreign or home lines, 17,623,

- total cars on lines: 203,671 - made up of the 173,875 + 12,173 + 17,623



Not particularly useful for modelling a particular branch on a particular

railway, but useful overall info I think.



The rest of the cars on line are bad order from Canada, bad order from the

USA and privately owned cars from the USA and Canada.



Question - what are the privately owned cars - the data is: privately owned

US cars on line, 1,682; privately owned Canadian cars on line, 1,013? Would

the private owner tank car fleets - for example - be part of these small

private owner figures? I suppose the privately owned refrigerator cars too.

Very small numbers compared with the fleet - about 2%. Is there anything

else besides tanks and reefers?



Rob Kirkham



------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --

From: <destron@vcn. bc.ca>

Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 12:11 PM

To: <STMFC@yahoogroups. com>

Subject: [STMFC] New info for the freight car distribution question



In going through early editions of Canadian Railway & Marine World I found
a monthly column about freight car distribution, which may be of some help
in discussing the question. I didn't print every column off from the
microfilm, but I did print two out for now, from March 1922 and April
1930.
The March 1922 column says:
"Freight Car Locations on February 1.
"The Railway Association of Canada has issued a statement showing the
location of freight cars on Feb 1, based on reports received from the
following railways: Algoma Central & Hudson Bay; Canadian National,
including Grand Trunk Pacific; Canadian Pacific; Central Vermont in
Canada; Dominion Atlantic; Edmonton, Dunvegan & British Columbia; Grand
Trunk; Kettle Valley; Michigan Central in Canada; Napierville Jct.; Pere
Marquette in Canada; Quebec Central; Quebec, Montreal & Southern;
Temiskaming & Northern Ontario; Temiscouata; Toronto, Hamilton & Buffalo;
Wabash in Canada. The following are the figures: Cars owned by reporting
railways, 223,008; home cars on Canadian lines, 13,715; home cars on US
lines, 35,418; home cars on home roads, 173,875. Canadian owned foreign
cars on home lines, 12,173, US owned cars on foreign or home lines,
17,623, total cars on lines, 203,671; percent of cars on line to total
owned, 91.3; deficiency on line to total owned, 19.337; home cars in bad
order, 18,602; foreign cars in bad order, 446; total cars in bad order,
19048; percentage in bad order, 9.3; privately owned US cars on line,
1,682; privately owned Canadian cars on line, 1,013."
The April 1930 column says:
"The Railway Association of Canada reports location of freight cars on
March 1, based on returns from Algoma Central & Hudson Bay, Canadian
National, Canadian Pacific, Dominion Atlantic, Kettle Valley, Northern
Alberta, Quebec Central, Temiskaming & Northern Ontario, Temiscouata, and
Toronto, Hamilton & Buffalo Rys., as follows: cars owned, 204,306; home
Cars on Canadian lines, 9,128; home cars on USA foreign lines, 20,424;
home cars on home roads, 175,754; Canadian owned foreign cars on home
roads, 6,406; US owned foreign cars on home roads, 20,802; total cars on
lines, 201,962; percent on lines to total owned, 98.8; deficiency on line
to total owned, 2,344; home cars in bad order, 12,051; foreign cars in bad
order, 158; total cars in bad order, 12,209; percent in bad order to cars
on line, 6; privately owned USA cars on line, 3,164; privately owned
Canadian cars on line, 1,079."
The first thing that strikes me as interesting is that there were more US
foreign cars on a given home road than there were foreign Canadian cars,
and the percentage of home road cars on home roads is much higher than
I've seen mentioned for US roads.
A quick analysis of the 1930 data gives this:
US cars in Canada, 10.3%
Canadian cars in US, 10.1%
Home cars on home roads, 86.5%
Home cars on Canadian foreign roads, 4.5%
Is there available anywhere such data from American roads to compare with?
And lastly, a short but amusing news piece from the March 1921 issue of
Canadian Railway & Marine World:
"In speaking at a recent Canadian Club dinner in New York, Hon. N.W.
Rowell, MP for Durham, Ont., said: "E. W. Beatty is the only young man of
prominence Lord Shaughnessy has produced. Our guest may not be so proud of
it, but when Trotsky lived in New York he also worked for the C.P.R.
here." Lord Shaughnessy added, "True, and we still owe him $40.""
Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC
------------ --------- --------- ------
Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Old news pieces and questions they raise.

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
Big deal? WWI. This is probably some of the shenanigans that were
going on that led to the formation of the USRA.
I don't think so. The magazine quoted was published in September
1917, likely meaning that the events described occurred in prior
months. The USRA was formed on December 28, 1917 and little advance
warning was given, according to several historians. But as Ben Hom
said, the traffic problems due to the wartime economy (which predated
US entry into the war) were already endemic.

Tony Thompson
Tony, you misread what I wrote. The "shenanigans" were happening BEFORE the USRA was formed, and
the USRA was a response to them. I didn't say that the article was in any way part of or because of
the USRA. So, with your timeline,

Shenanigans - sometime between 1915 and 1917; in fact, the T&OC sale must have been fairly recently
before the published story, since the repairs were still on-going when it was written.

Story published about the sales, September 1917

USRA formed, December 1917

Seems a logical sequence to me . . .

I'd be more interested in the answer to the condition question I raised a few minutes later.

SGL


Re: New info for the freight car distribution question

Robert kirkham
 

This is great information Frank - you are the first person to have identified anything like it for Canada in my experience. Now I am especially curious to know if it continued to be published into the later thirties, through the second world war and into the 1950's.

I take it there is no breakdown by specific railway.

In the US the specific data for each class 1 RR is available in the ICC reports - Tim Gilbert referred to the data frequently and it has been discussed on both this list and the old Freightcars list.

While there are a multitude of considerations affecting the percent of home road and other road cars on a given fleet, the data you have posted for the earlier era suggests:
- Cars owned by reporting railways, 223,008, but total cars on lines: 203,671.
- home cars on home roads, 173,875
- Canadian owned foreign cars on home lines, 12,173,
- US owned cars on foreign or home lines, 17,623,
- total cars on lines: 203,671 - made up of the 173,875 + 12,173 + 17,623

Not particularly useful for modelling a particular branch on a particular railway, but useful overall info I think.

The rest of the cars on line are bad order from Canada, bad order from the USA and privately owned cars from the USA and Canada.

Question - what are the privately owned cars - the data is: privately owned US cars on line, 1,682; privately owned Canadian cars on line, 1,013? Would the private owner tank car fleets - for example - be part of these small private owner figures? I suppose the privately owned refrigerator cars too. Very small numbers compared with the fleet - about 2%. Is there anything else besides tanks and reefers?


Rob Kirkham

--------------------------------------------------
From: <destron@...>
Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 12:11 PM
To: <STMFC@...>
Subject: [STMFC] New info for the freight car distribution question


In going through early editions of Canadian Railway & Marine World I found
a monthly column about freight car distribution, which may be of some help
in discussing the question. I didn't print every column off from the
microfilm, but I did print two out for now, from March 1922 and April
1930.

The March 1922 column says:

"Freight Car Locations on February 1.
"The Railway Association of Canada has issued a statement showing the
location of freight cars on Feb 1, based on reports received from the
following railways: Algoma Central & Hudson Bay; Canadian National,
including Grand Trunk Pacific; Canadian Pacific; Central Vermont in
Canada; Dominion Atlantic; Edmonton, Dunvegan & British Columbia; Grand
Trunk; Kettle Valley; Michigan Central in Canada; Napierville Jct.; Pere
Marquette in Canada; Quebec Central; Quebec, Montreal & Southern;
Temiskaming & Northern Ontario; Temiscouata; Toronto, Hamilton & Buffalo;
Wabash in Canada. The following are the figures: Cars owned by reporting
railways, 223,008; home cars on Canadian lines, 13,715; home cars on US
lines, 35,418; home cars on home roads, 173,875. Canadian owned foreign
cars on home lines, 12,173, US owned cars on foreign or home lines,
17,623, total cars on lines, 203,671; percent of cars on line to total
owned, 91.3; deficiency on line to total owned, 19.337; home cars in bad
order, 18,602; foreign cars in bad order, 446; total cars in bad order,
19048; percentage in bad order, 9.3; privately owned US cars on line,
1,682; privately owned Canadian cars on line, 1,013."

The April 1930 column says:

"The Railway Association of Canada reports location of freight cars on
March 1, based on returns from Algoma Central & Hudson Bay, Canadian
National, Canadian Pacific, Dominion Atlantic, Kettle Valley, Northern
Alberta, Quebec Central, Temiskaming & Northern Ontario, Temiscouata, and
Toronto, Hamilton & Buffalo Rys., as follows: cars owned, 204,306; home
Cars on Canadian lines, 9,128; home cars on USA foreign lines, 20,424;
home cars on home roads, 175,754; Canadian owned foreign cars on home
roads, 6,406; US owned foreign cars on home roads, 20,802; total cars on
lines, 201,962; percent on lines to total owned, 98.8; deficiency on line
to total owned, 2,344; home cars in bad order, 12,051; foreign cars in bad
order, 158; total cars in bad order, 12,209; percent in bad order to cars
on line, 6; privately owned USA cars on line, 3,164; privately owned
Canadian cars on line, 1,079."

The first thing that strikes me as interesting is that there were more US
foreign cars on a given home road than there were foreign Canadian cars,
and the percentage of home road cars on home roads is much higher than
I've seen mentioned for US roads.

A quick analysis of the 1930 data gives this:

US cars in Canada, 10.3%
Canadian cars in US, 10.1%
Home cars on home roads, 86.5%
Home cars on Canadian foreign roads, 4.5%

Is there available anywhere such data from American roads to compare with?

And lastly, a short but amusing news piece from the March 1921 issue of
Canadian Railway & Marine World:

"In speaking at a recent Canadian Club dinner in New York, Hon. N.W.
Rowell, MP for Durham, Ont., said: "E. W. Beatty is the only young man of
prominence Lord Shaughnessy has produced. Our guest may not be so proud of
it, but when Trotsky lived in New York he also worked for the C.P.R.
here." Lord Shaughnessy added, "True, and we still owe him $40.""

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




Re: Old news pieces and questions they raise.

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
Big deal? WWI. This is probably some of the shenanigans that were going on that led to the formation of the USRA.
I don't think so. The magazine quoted was published in September 1917, likely meaning that the events described occurred in prior months. The USRA was formed on December 28, 1917 and little advance warning was given, according to several historians. But as Ben Hom said, the traffic problems due to the wartime economy (which predated US entry into the war) were already endemic.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Old news pieces and questions they raise.

Schuyler Larrabee
 

A bit of reflection makes me ask, what sort of condition the cars sold to Canadian roads were in?
After all, the T&OC is repairing the cars before they leave. Perhaps they were pretty worn out?

It might be possible to identify what cars they were from ORER listings, and maybe establish their
age when this sale happened. Some insights might be gained thereby.

SGL

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of destron@...
Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 2:47 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Old news pieces and questions they raise.


I've been going through early editions of Canadian Railway & Marine World,
and I found a little snippet that made me curious: how common was such a
thing, and why was it such a big deal?

This text is from the September 1917 issue:

"A press dispatch from Columbus, Ohio, states that the State Public
Utilities Commission and the State Attorney General are investigating
reports that the Toledo and Ohio Central Ry. and the Hocking Valley Ry.
have sold coal cars to the Canadian Government Railways. It is said that
John Kay, of New Brunswick, acting as agent for the Canadian Government,
has admitted that he has purchased 1,700 coal cars from the railways in
Ohio. The Attorney General is reported to have stated that he is prepared
to take drastic action to prevent another car from being sold for use in
another state or country, and the discovery that railways have been
selling cars to another Government, while urging as a reason for increases
in freight rates the need of additional rolling stock, is said to have
caused much amazement. H. E. Speaks, General Superintendent, Toledo and
Ohio Central Ry., Columbus, is reported to have stated that his company
has sold 250 cars to the Canadian Government, and that they are undergoing
repair at the company's shops at Logan. M. S. Connors, General Manager,
Hocking Valley Ry., Columbus, is reported to have denied that his company
has sold any cars recently, the last sale of cars having been made four
years ago."

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC




Re: Old news pieces and questions they raise.

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Frank Valoczy asked (edited for clarity):
Re: September 1917 issue of Canadian Railway & Marine World
"'A press dispatch from Columbus, Ohio, states that the State Public
Utilities Commission and the State Attorney General are investigating
reports that the Toledo and Ohio Central Ry. and the Hocking Valley
Ry. have sold coal cars to the Canadian Government Railways.'

...why was it such a big deal?"

The United States had entered World War I in April 1917, and were
suffering the operational issues (including equipment shortages) that
would lead to the USRA takeover.

When viewed in this context, it's easy to understand why the state of
Ohio was questioning this sale of coal cars by the T&OC and HV. Both
roads would receive coal cars (or cars that could be used in coal
service) under USRA control, 500 twin hoppers by the T&OC, and 500
composite drop-bottom gons by the HV.


Ben Hom


Re: Old news pieces and questions they raise.

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Common? I don't know.

Big deal? WWI. This is probably some of the shenanigans that were going on that led to the
formation of the USRA.

SGL

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of destron@...
Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 2:47 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Old news pieces and questions they raise.


I've been going through early editions of Canadian Railway & Marine World,
and I found a little snippet that made me curious: how common was such a
thing, and why was it such a big deal?

This text is from the September 1917 issue:

"A press dispatch from Columbus, Ohio, states that the State Public
Utilities Commission and the State Attorney General are investigating
reports that the Toledo and Ohio Central Ry. and the Hocking Valley Ry.
have sold coal cars to the Canadian Government Railways. It is said that
John Kay, of New Brunswick, acting as agent for the Canadian Government,
has admitted that he has purchased 1,700 coal cars from the railways in
Ohio. The Attorney General is reported to have stated that he is prepared
to take drastic action to prevent another car from being sold for use in
another state or country, and the discovery that railways have been
selling cars to another Government, while urging as a reason for increases
in freight rates the need of additional rolling stock, is said to have
caused much amazement. H. E. Speaks, General Superintendent, Toledo and
Ohio Central Ry., Columbus, is reported to have stated that his company
has sold 250 cars to the Canadian Government, and that they are undergoing
repair at the company's shops at Logan. M. S. Connors, General Manager,
Hocking Valley Ry., Columbus, is reported to have denied that his company
has sold any cars recently, the last sale of cars having been made four
years ago."

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC




Re: NC&StL box cars

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Bob McCarthy asked:
"How would I get a copy of the spread sheet?"

Go to
http://www.steamfreightcars.com/prototype/frtcars/protofrtcarsmain.html
and click on the "Pullman Standard PS-1 40' Box Car List" link.


Ben Hom


Re: Web site on my layout with a model freight car page.

Steve SANDIFER
 

Very very nice. I would enjoy seeing your track plan.
______________
J. Stephen (Steve) Sandifer
mailto:steve.sandifer@...
Home: 12027 Mulholland Drive, Meadows Place, TX 77477, 281-568-9918
Office: Southwest Central Church of Christ, 4011 W. Bellfort, Houston, TX 77025, 713-667-9417

----- Original Message -----
From: Charlie Duckworth
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 8:00 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Web site on my layout with a model freight car page.


I started a small web site last Sunday and think it's ready for 'prime
time' viewing. There's a page with a few of my freight cars
highlighted. Any comments just email me off-list.

Charlie

http://mopac51.tripod.com/index.html


New info for the freight car distribution question

destron@...
 

In going through early editions of Canadian Railway & Marine World I found
a monthly column about freight car distribution, which may be of some help
in discussing the question. I didn't print every column off from the
microfilm, but I did print two out for now, from March 1922 and April
1930.

The March 1922 column says:

"Freight Car Locations on February 1.
"The Railway Association of Canada has issued a statement showing the
location of freight cars on Feb 1, based on reports received from the
following railways: Algoma Central & Hudson Bay; Canadian National,
including Grand Trunk Pacific; Canadian Pacific; Central Vermont in
Canada; Dominion Atlantic; Edmonton, Dunvegan & British Columbia; Grand
Trunk; Kettle Valley; Michigan Central in Canada; Napierville Jct.; Pere
Marquette in Canada; Quebec Central; Quebec, Montreal & Southern;
Temiskaming & Northern Ontario; Temiscouata; Toronto, Hamilton & Buffalo;
Wabash in Canada. The following are the figures: Cars owned by reporting
railways, 223,008; home cars on Canadian lines, 13,715; home cars on US
lines, 35,418; home cars on home roads, 173,875. Canadian owned foreign
cars on home lines, 12,173, US owned cars on foreign or home lines,
17,623, total cars on lines, 203,671; percent of cars on line to total
owned, 91.3; deficiency on line to total owned, 19.337; home cars in bad
order, 18,602; foreign cars in bad order, 446; total cars in bad order,
19048; percentage in bad order, 9.3; privately owned US cars on line,
1,682; privately owned Canadian cars on line, 1,013."

The April 1930 column says:

"The Railway Association of Canada reports location of freight cars on
March 1, based on returns from Algoma Central & Hudson Bay, Canadian
National, Canadian Pacific, Dominion Atlantic, Kettle Valley, Northern
Alberta, Quebec Central, Temiskaming & Northern Ontario, Temiscouata, and
Toronto, Hamilton & Buffalo Rys., as follows: cars owned, 204,306; home
Cars on Canadian lines, 9,128; home cars on USA foreign lines, 20,424;
home cars on home roads, 175,754; Canadian owned foreign cars on home
roads, 6,406; US owned foreign cars on home roads, 20,802; total cars on
lines, 201,962; percent on lines to total owned, 98.8; deficiency on line
to total owned, 2,344; home cars in bad order, 12,051; foreign cars in bad
order, 158; total cars in bad order, 12,209; percent in bad order to cars
on line, 6; privately owned USA cars on line, 3,164; privately owned
Canadian cars on line, 1,079."

The first thing that strikes me as interesting is that there were more US
foreign cars on a given home road than there were foreign Canadian cars,
and the percentage of home road cars on home roads is much higher than
I've seen mentioned for US roads.

A quick analysis of the 1930 data gives this:

US cars in Canada, 10.3%
Canadian cars in US, 10.1%
Home cars on home roads, 86.5%
Home cars on Canadian foreign roads, 4.5%

Is there available anywhere such data from American roads to compare with?

And lastly, a short but amusing news piece from the March 1921 issue of
Canadian Railway & Marine World:

"In speaking at a recent Canadian Club dinner in New York, Hon. N.W.
Rowell, MP for Durham, Ont., said: "E. W. Beatty is the only young man of
prominence Lord Shaughnessy has produced. Our guest may not be so proud of
it, but when Trotsky lived in New York he also worked for the C.P.R.
here." Lord Shaughnessy added, "True, and we still owe him $40.""

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC


Old news pieces and questions they raise.

destron@...
 

I've been going through early editions of Canadian Railway & Marine World,
and I found a little snippet that made me curious: how common was such a
thing, and why was it such a big deal?

This text is from the September 1917 issue:

"A press dispatch from Columbus, Ohio, states that the State Public
Utilities Commission and the State Attorney General are investigating
reports that the Toledo and Ohio Central Ry. and the Hocking Valley Ry.
have sold coal cars to the Canadian Government Railways. It is said that
John Kay, of New Brunswick, acting as agent for the Canadian Government,
has admitted that he has purchased 1,700 coal cars from the railways in
Ohio. The Attorney General is reported to have stated that he is prepared
to take drastic action to prevent another car from being sold for use in
another state or country, and the discovery that railways have been
selling cars to another Government, while urging as a reason for increases
in freight rates the need of additional rolling stock, is said to have
caused much amazement. H. E. Speaks, General Superintendent, Toledo and
Ohio Central Ry., Columbus, is reported to have stated that his company
has sold 250 cars to the Canadian Government, and that they are undergoing
repair at the company's shops at Logan. M. S. Connors, General Manager,
Hocking Valley Ry., Columbus, is reported to have denied that his company
has sold any cars recently, the last sale of cars having been made four
years ago."

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC


Re: MN&S PS-1 box cars (corrected)

Ed Hawkins
 

On Nov 15, 2008, at 10:15 PM, Thomas Baker wrote:

Sorry for that goof. Yes, of course I am referring to the PS-1 box
cars, not to the covered hoppers. I am sorry I didn't catch that
mistake.
Tom,
MNS 1000-1099, 11-52. The cars are listed in a roster of 40' PS-1 box
cars downloadable from the STMFC web site.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: NC&StL box cars

Ed Hawkins
 

On Nov 15, 2008, at 2:48 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

NC&StL #18503 (1937 AAR) -- correct trucks?
NC&Stl #22043 (PS-1) -- running board, hand brake?

Regarding Ed Hawkins' PS-1 spreadsheet, what is the P/B
column? I thought it might be tackboard placement (H/L)
but then some of the cells are "H/O"... ??
Tim,
From the bill of materials for the NC&StL 1937 AAR cars series
18500-18999, all cars had AAR spring plankless trucks with the first
250 from Scullin and the last 250 from American Steel Foundries. All
cars had chilled wheels.

I don't have an appliance breakdown on the NC&StL PS-1s except that
Miner, Ajax, and Universal hand brakes were used as well as Kerrigan,
U.S. Gypsum, and Apex running boards & brake steps.

Cars 22071 and 22145 that were in the front end of the order received
Miner hand brakes and Kerrigan running boards & brake steps. This is
documented by photos. Car 22322 had a U.S. Gypsum running board & brake
step. Cars 22482 & 22631 had Universal hand brakes and Apex running
boards & brake steps.

In the 40' PS-1 roster I compiled, P/B refers to the placement of the
Placard Boards on the doors. The first letter (either H or L)
designates if the door placard was in a high or low position. The
second portion designates if the placard was centered (C) or offset (O)
to one side. Any number (either a 2 or 3) designates the panel position
of the placard for variations found on 6-panel Superior doors. For
variants of 7-panel Superior doors, I don't specify where the placard
was located because the location is inherent in the door description.

Contact me off list if you have any questions.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: NC&StL box cars

Bob McCarthy
 

Howdy!
 
     How would I get a copy of the spread sheet?
 
Bob McCarthy
Modeling the Mighty Central of Georgia in Scale S

--- On Sun, 11/16/08, Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...> wrote:

From: Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] NC&StL box cars
To: STMFC@...
Date: Sunday, November 16, 2008, 5:47 PM







On Nov 15, 2008, at 2:48 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

NC&StL #18503 (1937 AAR) -- correct trucks?
NC&Stl #22043 (PS-1) -- running board, hand brake?

Regarding Ed Hawkins' PS-1 spreadsheet, what is the P/B
column? I thought it might be tackboard placement (H/L)
but then some of the cells are "H/O"... ??
Tim,
From the bill of materials for the NC&StL 1937 AAR cars series
18500-18999, all cars had AAR spring plankless trucks with the first
250 from Scullin and the last 250 from American Steel Foundries. All
cars had chilled wheels.

I don't have an appliance breakdown on the NC&StL PS-1s except that
Miner, Ajax, and Universal hand brakes were used as well as Kerrigan,
U.S. Gypsum, and Apex running boards & brake steps.

Cars 22071 and 22145 that were in the front end of the order received
Miner hand brakes and Kerrigan running boards & brake steps. This is
documented by photos. Car 22322 had a U.S. Gypsum running board & brake
step. Cars 22482 & 22631 had Universal hand brakes and Apex running
boards & brake steps.

In the 40' PS-1 roster I compiled, P/B refers to the placement of the
Placard Boards on the doors. The first letter (either H or L)
designates if the door placard was in a high or low position. The
second portion designates if the placard was centered (C) or offset (O)
to one side. Any number (either a 2 or 3) designates the panel position
of the placard for variations found on 6-panel Superior doors. For
variants of 7-panel Superior doors, I don't specify where the placard
was located because the location is inherent in the door description.

Contact me off list if you have any questions.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

116441 - 116460 of 193468