Date   

Re: buses

Charles Hladik
 

Maybe the Jordan 1940's City Transit Bus (#244) would be a better option.
Chuck Hladik

In a message dated 12/3/2008 12:11:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
MOFWCABOOSE@AOL.COM writes:




Oh, sure.?Detail a freight car down to the Nth degree, and run it on a
layout on which a Greyhound bus is being used as a stand-in for a school bus. That
would be like using a model eighteen-wheeler as a stand-in for a pickup
truck.

There are basically three kinds of bus: The school bus, the transit bus, and
the over-the-road bus or motor coach. Each is designed for a particular
duty, and seldom (I won't say never, because it has happened) is one?kind used in
place of the other.

School buses have been used as transit buses, usually by charter operators
who won the low bid to operate a municipal transit system and didn't have
enough transit buses, or by the municipality itself when they were starting the
system and didn't have transit buses yet. Substituting schoolbuses for transit
buses does not usually last long because of customer dissatisfaction. And of
course school buses have been run long distances, usually carrying teams or
bands, as though they were otr.

Transit buses have been used as school buses, and the practice is probably
more common then most people realize. Again, private operators are more likely
to do this, though most charter bus companies do not?have transit buses
unless, as noted above, they contract to run transit franchises.

Over-the-road buses are bigger and heavier then other buses because they are
intended to carry people in comfort over long distances. Because of their
size, they are not designed or geared for the frequent stop-and-start
requirements of school or transit buses, hence are relatively inefficient when used in
that service. It has been done occasionally, but again, is not cost
effective. The exception might be for express transit runs that do not make many
stops.

The problem that provoked the comment, of course, is that relatively few bus
models are available, even in HO. Model railroaders, especially the traction
variety, have little empathy for buses, hence the market is small. OTOH, a
lot of bus fans (Yes, Virginia, there are such people) are also rail fans.
Some years ago I was on a fantrip with members of the Motor Bus Society, and
sighting a train generated almost as much excitement as sighting a bus.

As late as 1952 I was going to school on a bus that was not that much
different then the Jordan model except that it was longer...we called it "the
rattletrap". Great was our surprise when one day it was replaced by a new Ford
bus...but we still called it "the rattletrap".

John C. La Rue, Jr.
Bonita Springs, FL

-----Original Message-----
From: Donald B. Valentine <_riverman_vt@riverman__
(mailto:riverman_vt@yahoo.com) >
To: _STMFC@yahoogroups.STM_ (mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com)
Sent: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 7:29 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: construction pipes

Isn't the vitrified clay pipe what was called, at least during
the steam and transition era, "Orangeburg" pipe here in the east?
I believe that name came from the fact that most of is seemed to be
manufactured in the area surrounding Orangeburg, South Carolina. As
I recall from sales and use of it in the 1950 - 1965 period the
length of a section was some ratio of its outside diameter.

While noted New Haven, and computerless, modeler Bill Aldrich and
I were picking up some items yesterday both the black "steel" and the
gray "concrete" offerings from Life-Like were viewed. The former
struck me as a total waste of time and money, especially at the price,
though the "concrete" pipe looked usable. Some straws might look fine
for steel pipe but painted aluminum is much better from the
perspectives of scale, overall cost and durability IMHO. Lastly, I
believe the length of the sectional concrete pipe was also determined
by some ratio of its outside diameter but wonder if some list member
might have something more definite on this.

On a different subject, Bill was looking yesterday for a 1948 era
school bus for his pike but we couldn't find anything that fit. Most
are too modern and the Jordan, I think, bus is too old. We did note
the new 1951-1953 Greyhound buses from Mini-Metals and one of those
might be used in place of a school bus if nothing more accurate than
what we saw can be found.

Don Valentine

--- In _STMFC@yahoogroups.STM_ (mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com) , "paulbizier"
<pa.bizier@.pa> wrote:

I'm surprised that some of the other engineers on the list haven't
chimed in, but, at the risk of moderation jail...

vitrified clay (sewer pipes) - most common during steam era -
typically only 4' long. Much of this was regional transport - each
area had its own VCP manufacturing companies

ductile or cast iron - look the same - 20 foot joints - rail
transport
typical then (and now)- various joints - bell and socket and
flanged
most common

transite (an asbestos-cement product) - typically 4-8 feet long -
usual for water main during 50's - smaller diameters, usually (say
less than 12")

PVC - not common in our era, but 10' to 20' sections depending upon
type

Hope this helps.

Paul Bizier

--- In _STMFC@yahoogroups.STM_ (mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com) , "ed_mines"
<ed_mines@> wrote:

Aren't lot of these construction pipes (like the vitreous clay
pipes)
a lot shorter than 40 feet?

Wouldn't at least some of them be loaded in gondolas?

I'm guessing that they are too heavy for a man to lift (steal) by
himself.
>
Ed
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Re: Heinz freight car fleet

asychis@...
 

Al and Virgil,

Thanks for the information. I'll pursue the articles and see if the NMRA
has any information on the old SIG. Was it called Pickles in Miniature?

Jerry Michels
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Re: paint match for dark olive green

VINCE PUGLIESE
 

You may want to look at some of the military paint ranges as dark olive is well represented.

.vp

--- On Tue, 12/2/08, Mark Pierce <marcoperforar@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Mark Pierce <marcoperforar@yahoo.com>
Subject: [STMFC] paint match for dark olive green
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Received: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 7:15 PM
Can anyone recommend a commercial product that will closely
match the
dark olive green paint ala SP such as used on express
boxcars, and in
particular, the Red Caboose models? Thanks.

Mark Pierce


Re: Pipe loads on the cheap

John F. Pautz <jfpautz@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Douglas Harding" <dharding@...> wrote:
What I noticed was the Panera straw was a smaller diameter than the
standard McDonalds straw, but not as small as coffee
stirrers. Might be the perfect size for drill pipe.
Drill pipe (actually tubing, as it is sized by outside diameter rather
than nominal inside diameter for pipe) was usually 2-7/8, 3-5/8, 4-5/8
inch diameter. Generally drill tubing has one end upset by approximatly
1/2 inch and is then tapped, while the other end is threaded. For
shipping the threaded end has a protective plastic cap on it.

John F. Pautz
American Switch & Signal
P:48 track components


Re: Heinz freight car fleet

Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

Howard - I don't know if copies were sent to the NMRA library. You might check there. I have a complete set but it's not easily accessable. - Al

----- Original Message -----
From: Howard R Garner
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 8:14 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Heinz freight car fleet


> Posted by: "Westerfield" westerfield@charter.net alwesterfield
> Tue Dec 2, 2008 11:04 am (PST)
> Many years ago there was a Heinz pickel SIG with a quarterly newsletter. It ran out of steam because we covered the Heinz fleet as completely as possible. - Al Westerfield

Al,

Are these newsletters archive somewhere?
I would like to get copies.

Howard Garner


Re: Pipe loads on the cheap

Bob McCarthy
 

--- On Wed, 12/3/08, Douglas Harding <dharding@nethtc.net> wrote:

From: Douglas Harding <dharding@nethtc.net>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Pipe loads on the cheap
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 3:28 AM






While I was at Naperville, I ate lunch at Panera Bread several times. A Canadian friend said he enjoyed eating at Panera because
their black plastic drinking straw made perfect pipe loads, as he grab a handful for his cold drink. A coat of dullcote and it was
ready. What I noticed was the Panera straw was a smaller diameter than the standard McDonalds straw, but not as small as coffee
stirrers. Might be the perfect size for drill pipe.

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr. org


















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Northern Pacific Lettering Changes

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 2, 2008, at 7:31 AM, railsnw1 wrote:

I have been trying to get a better understanding on the changes to the
lettering on Northern Pacific boxcars. In looking through a number of
photos from around the late 30's I'm seeing NP cars with the
arched "NORTHERN PACIFIC" and below it the car number only without
the "N.P.".

Does anyone have a time frame when this type of lettering would have
changed to the reporting marks above the car number?









Richard, I have two photos of NP wood sheathed box cars with the old
lettering which were repainted and reweighed in 1937, so that
stenciling arrangement lasted at least that long. However, the
9480-9999 series box cars had reporting marks above the numbers when
delivered by Pacific Car & Foundry in 1937 (but no monad emblems!) ,
so I think it's safe to assume that the change occurred at that time.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Pipe loads on the cheap

Douglas Harding <dharding@...>
 

While I was at Naperville, I ate lunch at Panera Bread several times. A Canadian friend said he enjoyed eating at Panera because
their black plastic drinking straw made perfect pipe loads, as he grab a handful for his cold drink. A coat of dullcote and it was
ready. What I noticed was the Panera straw was a smaller diameter than the standard McDonalds straw, but not as small as coffee
stirrers. Might be the perfect size for drill pipe.

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: construction pipes

paulbizier <pa.bizier@...>
 

I'm surprised that some of the other engineers on the list haven't
chimed in, but, at the risk of moderation jail...

vitrified clay (sewer pipes) - most common during steam era -
typically only 4' long. Much of this was regional transport - each
area had its own VCP manufacturing companies

ductile or cast iron - look the same - 20 foot joints - rail transport
typical then (and now)- various joints - bell and socket and flanged
most common

transite (an asbestos-cement product) - typically 4-8 feet long -
usual for water main during 50's - smaller diameters, usually (say
less than 12")

PVC - not common in our era, but 10' to 20' sections depending upon
type

Hope this helps.

Paul Bizier

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "ed_mines" <ed_mines@...> wrote:

Aren't lot of these construction pipes (like the vitreous clay
pipes)
a lot shorter than 40 feet?

Wouldn't at least some of them be loaded in gondolas?

I'm guessing that they are too heavy for a man to lift (steal) by
himself.

Ed


Re: construction pipes (& now rail too)

al_brown03
 

Seems like different kinds of pipe came in different lengths. Is that
the reason for 39-foot rail lengths, too: fit in a 40-ft gon?

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, SUVCWORR@... wrote:


Having had some experience with water well drilling pipe, the
sections were
39 feet same length as rail. I suspect that was established
because it would
fit in a standard 40 ft gon. I once worked for a company that had
its own
wells in the basement of a groundskeepers house. We had to remove
part of the
roof to pull the pipe when it developed holes. It used a
submersible pump
and the well was 389 feet deep. We has to pull all of it.

Rich Orr

In a message dated 12/2/2008 11:20:11 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
ed_mines@... writes:

Aren't lot of these construction pipes (like the vitreous clay
pipes)
a lot shorter than 40 feet?

Wouldn't at least some of them be loaded in gondolas?

I'm guessing that they are too heavy for a man to lift (steal) by
himself.

Ed


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Heinz freight car fleet

earlyrail
 

Posted by: "Westerfield" westerfield@charter.net alwesterfield
Tue Dec 2, 2008 11:04 am (PST)
Many years ago there was a Heinz pickel SIG with a quarterly newsletter. It ran out of steam because we covered the Heinz fleet as completely as possible. - Al Westerfield

Al,

Are these newsletters archive somewhere?
I would like to get copies.

Howard Garner


Re: paint match for dark olive green

Tim O'Connor
 

Since I have one of the Red Caboose express cars, I can
say it looks like a very faded version of Dark Olive. I
suppose it's ok for a 1960's version.

At 12/2/2008 08:26 PM Tuesday, you wrote:
Mark Pierce wrote:
Can anyone recommend a commercial product that will closely match the
dark olive green paint ala SP such as used on express boxcars, and in
particular, the Red Caboose models?
You could always ask Red Caboose what they use as a standard. I'd
guess their Chinese assembly people formulate their own paint, but it
will be chosen to match a standard provided by RC. If that's the SP/UP
standard Dark Olive, then the PBL paint cited by Richard Brennan ought
to be very close.
If you're repainting a part like a door, just weather the rest of
the car more than the door, to indicate a replacement, and any minor
color discrepancy won't be noticed.

Tony Thompson


Re: paint match for dark olive green

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Mark Pierce wrote:
Can anyone recommend a commercial product that will closely match the dark olive green paint ala SP such as used on express boxcars, and in particular, the Red Caboose models?
You could always ask Red Caboose what they use as a standard. I'd guess their Chinese assembly people formulate their own paint, but it will be chosen to match a standard provided by RC. If that's the SP/UP standard Dark Olive, then the PBL paint cited by Richard Brennan ought to be very close.
If you're repainting a part like a door, just weather the rest of the car more than the door, to indicate a replacement, and any minor color discrepancy won't be noticed.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: paint match for dark olive green

Richard Brennan <brennan8@...>
 

At 11:15 AM 12/2/2008, Mark Pierce wrote:
Can anyone recommend a commercial product that will closely match the
dark olive green paint ala SP such as used on express boxcars, and in
particular, the Red Caboose models? Thanks.
Not sure about the Red Caboose match... but have you looked at:
PBL STR-29 SP/ UP/ Rio Grande Dark Olive Paint ?

<http://www.p-b-l.com> On-line Catalog - Category 22


--------------------
Richard Brennan - San Leandro CA
--------------------


Re: Pipe loads on the cheap

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

There were several clay/brick works in this area (Beaver Falls PA) that made and shipped clay pipe and flue liners by rail. Additionally there were hardware distributors that received same.

There is/was a clay works in Sugar Creek OH that shipped pipe/liners by rail as recently as 2005 or so.

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Burgess

VCP has a bell on one end with a rubber
gasket but I wonder if it was ever shipped by rail.


Re: Pipe loads on the cheap - Drill Pipe

Malcolm H. Houck
 

_Re: Pipe loads on the cheap _
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/message/77528;_ylc=X3oDMTJyaThmYmU1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI1NTQ3NTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1M
TY5NzI1BG1zZ0lkAzc3NTI4BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzEyMjgyNjkxMDc-)
Posted by: "Tim O'Connor" _timboconnor@comcast.net _
(mailto:timboconnor@comcast.net?Subject= Re:%20Pipe%20loads%20on%20the%20cheap) _cf5250 _
(http://profiles.yahoo.com/cf5250)
Tue Dec 2, 2008 5:49 am (PST)

What is the typical diameter of drill pipe?

3 1/2" to 6 1/4" depending on exact usage -- depth and needed "drill"
(torsional) strength. Within certain limitations, a load of drill pipe would not
appear to be much different from (different than) a load of steam locomotive
flue stock; -- fire tubes or Superheater jackets.

Mal Houck

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Re: Clasp brakes on trucks

Tim O'Connor
 

Al

SP bought hundreds of ore cars beginning in 1958 w/ clasp brakes
(two brake pads per wheel). The cars had to be lifted over Beaumont
Hill and I guess SP didn't want any runaways... Power for the trains
could be 15 +/- diesel units, all with dynamics.

Tim O'Connor

At 12/2/2008 01:40 PM Tuesday, you wrote:
This is at the early portion of this FC list's era.

What were the advantages of clasp vs. more-modern FC brakes . . . over
just adding fifty-percent more to doubling the pads? Many six-wheel
trucked cars used these in the 1920s. When did they disappear on North
American FCs (currently used on high-speed pass loco's)? Did the CD
vs. AB brake schedule change their advantages? Did they made it harder
or easier to balance clamping pressures. They appear to have violated
the KISS principle, and made the truck assemblies longer and heavier.

Al Kresse


Re: Intermountain new HO 70 ton spring plank truck

Tim O'Connor
 

Sorry about that I meant to send that to Andy directly.

Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 16:39:53 -0500
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Intermountain new HO 70 ton spring plank truck


Andy I'd like to get oh, three of the ACF hopper kits.

Do you still have any Red Caboose mech reefers?

Tim


At 12/2/2008 04:17 PM Tuesday, you wrote:


I received my HO Intermountain undec AC&F 2 bay covered hopper kits.

This is the debut car for the new IMRRCo 70 ton plain journal spring plank truck. I will be offering these trucks in early 2009 as wheelset-less pairs, price TBD.

The AC&F 2 bays have a list price of $20.00. Contact me off-list(PLEASE)if interested in obtaining a $16.00 kit.
<midcentury@sbcglobal.net>

Thanks,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Re: Intermountain new HO 70 ton spring plank truck

Tim O'Connor
 

Andy I'd like to get oh, three of the ACF hopper kits.

Do you still have any Red Caboose mech reefers?

Tim

At 12/2/2008 04:17 PM Tuesday, you wrote:


I received my HO Intermountain undec AC&F 2 bay covered hopper kits.

This is the debut car for the new IMRRCo 70 ton plain journal spring plank truck. I will be offering these trucks in early 2009 as wheelset-less pairs, price TBD.

The AC&F 2 bays have a list price of $20.00. Contact me off-list(PLEASE)if interested in obtaining a $16.00 kit.
<midcentury@sbcglobal.net>

Thanks,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Intermountain new HO 70 ton spring plank truck

Andy Carlson
 

I received my HO Intermountain undec AC&F 2 bay covered hopper kits.

This is the debut car for the new IMRRCo 70 ton plain journal spring plank truck. I will be offering these trucks in early 2009 as wheelset-less pairs, price TBD.

The AC&F 2 bays have a list price of $20.00. Contact me off-list(PLEASE)if interested in obtaining a $16.00 kit.
<midcentury@sbcglobal.net>

Thanks,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

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